Tea Article

[catcherintheye]

Thanks you so much Heady blunts and microbe man, I apologize for everyone reiterating things for all the noobs, Its not that we dont read, its just hard for some to wrap your mind around all the juicy in just a few pages let alone a 40-100 page thread.

what you posted, clears everything up to the finest degree. Those ratios per gallon should be tattoed on me, by far the best piece of info for what i call "tea brewing for dummies, ie. me" is what you posted heady, thank you for that post, and thank you again microbe for the original information, im sorry it slipped past me, I do read and am not as oblivious as i seem.

The lady this morning is looking grand, whatever was multiplied in that brew sure had a noticeable difference, it literally has been like giving my plants viagra.

I didnt have these results wen only using EWC, of which i have very high quality locally farmed castings. My next brew will be exactly to the T of what you posted for me heady, Not only you gave me the map(microbes info) but you also outlined my exact efforts to be completed, blessings, thank you all. Apologies for the annoyances.

 

[mad librettist]

Mad,

Nope, they are unlike plant nannies; Blumat uses a clay cone to gauge moisture status of media. Once media moisture status is at a low point the blumat opens a valve (or something similar) on a drip line and water is emitted out of the drip line (hose). Once the media moisture status is at a high point the Blumat closes the valve (or something similar). The key questions are: "what are the low and high points?"

If I was going to use Blumat I would setup a circle with the drip line for more homogeneous watering of media.

ah ok lol.

PLant nannies sound better than blumats. Water passes through the clay spike faster or slower depending on how fast the soil dries out. And they work with 2L soda bottles!

 

[heady blunts]

catch- any time man. we're all learning here.

spurr and mad-

i promise i'm not selling these things, lol. i just am very happy with my set, and i want to clear up any misconceptions about them.

the blumat is not like a plant sitter (or blumat jr.). like spurr said, the water passes through a drip line controlled by the carrot, not through the carrot itself.

from what i've read of other people's experiences, plant sitters are less than ideal and are very hard to keep at favorable and even moisture levels. in other words, for our purposes they should be avoided.

the blumat drip valve is adjustable, not just the rate of flow, but also what level of moisture triggers the valve to open. granted, the operating widow is probably limited. if you let the media around the sensor completely dry out water will be drawn from within the carrot and the mechanism will be disabled. however, i can control to a pretty large degree how dry my soil gets (or how light the pot gets) before the blumat opens.

to be honest, when i adjust mine, i am thinking of the opposite end of the spectrum, ie how wet (heavy) it is before the sensor shuts off the valve. i adjust it so that (if i were to make a crude estimate based on a scale from bone try to fully saturated) i have a constant moisture level around 60%. the leaves tell me if i've got it on the nose or not.

ANYWAY, one major bummer about them is you can't run any insoluable nutrients or any compost teas through them. they work great for fully amnended and recycled soil, but i haven't got my dirt quite dialed in yet

look i steered us back to the topic at hand!

 

[mad librettist]

Tea Article

I've had trouble with plant sitters myself - but the brand "plant nanny" regulates itself very well. I have had a plant nanny stay full of water for a month (in the winter, with a houseplant).

only trouble I have had with a plant nanny is when the clay spike has been dropped but the crack is hard to see.

if you look at my last recorded harvest in the micro cab, it's a really outstanding yield, despite frequent travel back then. the plant nannies made a huge difference.

 

[godsgift402]

does anyone use bounty in there tea.

 

[CT Guy]

does anyone use bounty in there tea.

Boun-tea the tea maker or Bounty the dryer sheets?

 

[Dignan]

Boun-tea the tea maker or Bounty the dryer sheets?

Don't play dumb, CT... your secret is out! Now everybody's gonna be growing pumpkins as big as yours!

Wait a minute... Bounce is the dryer sheet... Bounty is the quicker-picker-upper. Are you trying to confuse us to throw us off yer trail?

I'm doing a side-by-side experiment... paper towels vs. dryer sheets.

 

[heady blunts]

mad- checked out your thread- the results speak for themselves!

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Don't play dumb, CT...
I'm doing a side-by-side experiment... paper towels vs. dryer sheets.

^^^^^ don't forget to test bathroom tissue, it dissolves best.

Yes, I use parts of the bountea brew kit. I'm still microscope-less so I will withhold commenting as to it's efficacy, no side-by-side tests for me.

 

[CT Guy]

Don't play dumb, CT... your secret is out! Now everybody's gonna be growing pumpkins as big as yours!

Wait a minute... Bounce is the dryer sheet... Bounty is the quicker-picker-upper. Are you trying to confuse us to throw us off yer trail?

I'm doing a side-by-side experiment... paper towels vs. dryer sheets.

Ha! You're right, it is the paper towel!

And on this site, you never know. You've got guys discussing the merits of menstral blood and humanure, so is a paper towel question really that strange? Who knows?

And yes, we can discuss the Boun-tea system. I think it has some Pro and Cons. I don't have time right now, I'm super busy at work, but I'll try and get to it tomorrow if no one else has posted on the subject.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I just also happen to know I suck at watering....Maybe I'll keep them as a backup in case I go on vacation. Got them pretty cheap on ebay for around $4 each. I'll experiment with my houseplants to start.

CT Guy

I did not have much success with the Blutmat Jr. devices. On the Tropf Blumat system, I run 4 cones around each plant @ 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and 9:00 clock positions spaced about 1/2 way between the plant's stalk and the side of the SmartPot/Square Roots fabric nursery pots.

I bought a scratched acrylic aquarium (about 110 gallons) for the reservoir with a PVC air harness to aerate the tank that feeds the feed supply lines going to the Tropf Blumat cones.

Once they're set-up it's flawless in it's execution. These were originally developed by the Israeli's and are manufactured in Austria.

The Tropf Blutmat Patio Set gives you 12 cones and all of the tube connectors and reservoir plug, etc. that you need. This boxed set is around $72.00 + S & H.

CC

 

[spurr]

CT Guy

I did not have much success with the Blutmat Jr. devices. On the Tropf Blumat system, I run 4 cones around each plant @ 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and 9:00 clock positions spaced about 1/2 way between the plant's stalk and the side of the SmartPot/Square Roots fabric nursery pots.

I bought a scratched acrylic aquarium (about 110 gallons) for the reservoir with a PVC air harness to aerate the tank that feeds the feed supply lines going to the Tropf Blumat cones.

Once they're set-up it's flawless in it's execution. These were originally developed by the Israeli's and are manufactured in Austria.

The Tropf Blutmat Patio Set gives you 12 cones and all of the tube connectors and reservoir plug, etc. that you need. This boxed set is around $72.00 + S & H.

CC

FWIW, I found out very interesting info about Blumats after conversing with the makers of Blumats: they work by water tension, not moisture content, which is great news. Also, the vanilla setting for Blumats makes them release water at ~4 kPa, which is a bit low for soilless, and way too low for soil. Turing the dial increases the water tension at which water is released. I have the appropriate setting for 6 and 8 kPa, and higher too. I plan to post about this in the Blumat thread tomorrow, possibly.

I plan to test Blumat with my tensiometer so I can calibrate/see how accurate they are. Also, I plan to test Blumat with a ring, not a single drip line, for better watering pattern.

That's all for now

 

[heady blunts]

question for MM and anyone else that wants to weigh in-

so your recipe calls for fish hydrolysate, and in another thread we established that emulsion is inferior. so my question is do i need to adjust the recommended amount if i substitute emulsion (alaska) for hydrolysate?

also i use liquid seaweed extract (growmore) rather than kelp meal. does this require a similar adjustment?

i'll just repost it again

1 gallon = 16 cups = 256 tablespoons

2.38% by volume compost or vermicompost (EWC) per gallon = .38 cups or around half a cup max or about 2 cups in 5 gallons max.

0.5 to 0.75% molasses by volume per gallon = 1.28 to 1.92 tablespoons per gallon. 0.75% is the maximum I use. It is a good bacterial and fungal food.

0.063% fish hydrolysate by volume per gallon = 0.16 tablespoon = 0.479 teaspoons or half a teaspoon

0.25% (max) kelpmeal by volume per gallon = 0.64 tablespoon or half a tablespoon

 

[Microbeman]

When I tested Alaska fish emulsion, it supported zero microbial growth and 'seemed' to inhibit microbial growth. I have no experience with "liquid seaweed extract (growmore)"

 

[heady blunts]

When I tested Alaska fish emulsion, it supported zero microbial growth and 'seemed' to inhibit microbial growth. I have no experience with "liquid seaweed extract (growmore)"

uh oh, that's pretty discouraging. i guess i aught to pony up for some hydrolysate. thanks MM.

 

[mad librettist]

Tea Article

mm, it made no sense to me that Alaska fish emulsion would support ZERO microbial life, then I pondered what you also said - that it seemed to inhibit microbial life.

kinda makes me suspect a preservative.

 

[CT Guy]

When I tested Alaska fish emulsion, it supported zero microbial growth and 'seemed' to inhibit microbial growth. I have no experience with "liquid seaweed extract (growmore)"

This surprises me as well. Maybe we can test some stuff out when you're in town. While I understand the reasoning behind why it's inferior to hydrolysate, it's still a common product that is used by many gardeners (with some success I assume). Haven't played around with it myself.

 

[spurr]

mm, it made no sense to me that Alaska fish emulsion would support ZERO microbial life, then I pondered what you also said - that it seemed to inhibit microbial life.

kinda makes me suspect a preservative.

Fish hydrolysate also has a preservative, all the retail brands I know about anyway. The preservative often used is phosphoric acid, to drop pH to 3.8-3.5 (for Great Pacific Bioproducts) and 3.3-3.5 (for Neptune's Harvest). The low pH prevents most microbes and putrefaction. Microbeman pointed out to me some time ago that some brands of fish hydrolysate use ~3% phosphoric acid, I assume by volume, ex., Great Pacific Bioproducts.

FWIW, I wanted to use Great Pacific due to MM's recommendation and testing, but it's too expeinve to ship to the US. A guy at Great Pacific told me Organic Gem is really good and comparable to their product when I asked them about Organic Gem.

I think one might be able to use citric acid (can be purchased from a beer/wine brewing shop) to reduce pH, as a preservative, if one makes their own fish hydrolysate. Adding carbohydrates (molasses or sugar in the raw) to fresh whole fish (ex. de-boned), or fresh fish gurry, that has been minced/ground and mixed with 1:1 water (vol/vol) and ~8% blackstrap molasses (w/w), then blended, is often sufficient to make fish hydrolysate using only the indigenous bacteria and endogenous enzymes of the fish. That said, I have read studies that fish hydrolysate can be made efficiently with lactic acid bacteria and ~8% molasses (w/w) or ~4% (w/w) corn syrup, which also drops pH to ~4 (or less to about 3.3). One could also add enzymes that digest protein, such as papain which functions best at a pH of ~5.


"Optimization of the lactic acid fermentation of hydrolyzed cod gurry with molasses"
Radu Giurca and Robert E. Levin
Journal of Food Biochemistry, Volume 16, Issue 2, pages 83–97, April 1992


"Optimization of the lactic acid fermentation of hydrolyzed cod (Gadus morhua) gurry with corn syrup as carbohydrate source"
Radu Giurca and Robert E. Levin
Journal of Food Biochemistry, Vol. 16(5):277–289 (1992)


"Fish protein hydrolysates: production, biochemical, and functional properties"
Kristinsson HG, Rasco BA
Crit. Rev. Food Sci. Nutr., vol. 40(1):43-81 (2000)


"Biochemical and functional properties of Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) muscle proteins hydrolyzed with various alkaline proteases"
H.G. Kristinsson and B.A. Rasco
J. Agric. Food Chem., vol. 48(3):657-66 (2000)

 

[heady blunts]

just stumbled upon this. thought yall might find it interesting.

ORGANIC GEM VS EMULSIONS
ORGANIC GEM®
NOT ALL FISH FERTILIZERS ARE THE SAME
KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!

ORGANIC GEM [vs] EMULSIONS
(HYDROLYZATE)

- Made from edible fish - Made from “trash fish”

- Fresh fish odor - Offensive odor

- Low temperature processed - Heated and boiled down
with naturally occurring marine to 50% concentration
enzymes

- No oils removed - Oils removed
(high oil content 18-30%)

- No protein removed - Protein meal removed

- No chlorine - Contains chlorine
(used during process)

- Best quality control - Lower quality control
(processed in FDA approved facility)

- Won’t clog equipment - Clogs equipment

- Heat sensitive components are - Heat sensitive
left intact, such as: components destroyed
Hormones
Enzymes
Amino acids
Vitamins
Proteins

- Made with food grade phosphoric - Made with low cost
or citric acids (depending on sulfuric acid
desired formula)
- Made from deep, cold water dogfish - Made from river, lake or
(high oil) harvested from the estuary fish which are exposed
North Atlantic Ocean to high levels of pollutants

- Low or non-detectable heavy - Higher heavy metal levels
metal levels

- High trace mineral content of - Low trace mineral
deep water ocean fish content of lake or estuary fish


COMMON PRODUCTION PROCESS

There are various ways that fish fertilizers are produced; here are the basic parameters for the three most common methods:

1. Fermentation
Fish waste, or “trash fish” are ground up into a slurry, which is then pumped into large holding tanks. Sulfuric acid is added, and the fish is left to anaerobically digest (rot) in the tank for 30-60 days. During this period of anaerobic activity, much of the beneficial nutrients are “gassed off”. The material is then filtered to remove remaining contaminants and packaged.

2. Emulsions
This is the most popular method. “Trash fish” is ground into a slurry and cooked at very high temperatures. The oils, collagen and lipids are then removed for other products. What is left is called “stickwater”. This “stickwater” is then boiled to drive off the water and concentrate it. Sulfuric acid is then added to stabilize the emulsion, and it is filtered to remove contaminants. It is now ready for packaging.

3. Acid Digest
Fish waste, typically from a wide variety of sources, many of low oil content, is ground into a slurry and pumped into a processing tank. Phosphoric acid is added, and the tank is slowly stirred and heated for at least 24 hrs. More acid is then added to stabilize the fertilizer and it is filtered to remove contaminants. This process uses more acid and has a higher P2O4 content.

ORGANIC GEM PRODUCTION PROCESS

Organic Gem is produced by a unique proprietary process. We are the ONLY Company consistently using deep water, North Atlantic Dogfish for our raw material. Our process is a low temperature, aerobic, enzymatic digestion. We DO NOT remove any of the beneficial oils, collagens, or lipids. We start by receiving fresh dogfish offal from the numerous processors in New Bedford, MA. (the largest fishing port in North America)

We then load the dogfish into our EDU’s (enzymatic digestion units) add our proprietary enzyme blend, and agitate at low temperature. The whole digestion process requires about 1.5 - 2 hrs. to complete. We then course filter to remove the shark cartilage from the hydrolysate.

This cartilage goes on for further processing as a dietary supplement.

Phosphoric acid (or citric blend) is added at this time to stabilize the hydrolysate, and then we filter for a second time over a fine 100 mesh filter to remove any remaining particulate. The Organic Gem is pumped to holding tanks for final QC. It is then ready for packaging.

Please note, high quality hydrolysates will “separate” or fall out after a period of time. You should see three distinct layers in the container:

Top layer of oil
Middle layer of protein
Bottom layer of collagens and gelatins

Always remember to mix well before application for best results.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Using the Washington State Department of Agriculture database, a comparison of a fish hydrolysate product from C.R. Brown Fertilizers vs. Alaska Fish Fertilizer 5-1-1 with regard to heavy metals - those specifically measured and reported are Aresenic, Cadmium, Cobalt, Mercury, Molybdenum, Nickel, Lead, Selenemium and Zinc. The Alaska brand is a product from Lilly Miller Brands.

Pretty striking differences. I guess the question that I have is there something in the fermentation process that has this affect on heavy metals or is it the cooking of the emulsion products that concentrate these metals?

FWIW

CC