TC2010: Good for CA, bad for growers?

[Gdood9]

If this Bill passes, you will still be able to grow more than one plant if you are a legal med patient!. Duh! what dont you understand about this? Just keep doin what your doin!

I wouldn't count on that staying how it is for very long. The cheap cost of the mass produced product that will come into the market will probably shut down all the clubs or turn them into retailers. Small growers won't be able to compete with the price cuts. This will lead to a monopoly on the market and eventually cut out the MMJ scene.

Look, I'm not saying that 10 y/o's should be out taking rips. I can understand an age requirement. I don't know if 21 is right. I think 18 would be a better age. I'm against how the system will be regulated. It's basically gonna become how big tobacco is. An even better comparison would be the beer wars. The small craft/elite/high-end guys who do manage to turn a profit and have quality smoke will be pushed out by big corporations by them just starting their own craft/elite strains and what-not, and we all know that bud golden wheat just aint the same as a good Pyramid Hefeweizen.

 

[Bacchus]

Be honest people....the grey market growers will continue to do what they do. Do you think those that grow for profit will sudenly become law abiding? Are you kidding?

So some deep pocket corporations will step in, how is that different than what we have now? Today's mexican mafia will become tomorrow's AMDs, but with the bonus of paying taxes into the state coffers.

Do you think law enforcement will prosecute someone who has a 5 x 10 plot? Do they even prosecute that now?

Do you think this will be the only proposal EVER??

 

[Bacchus]

..and we all know that bud golden wheat just aint the same as a good Pyramid Hefeweizen.

And who will buy the mass produced crap verses the connosouire gold? How are these choices any different than we have today?

 

[Rakkasan]

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[elwaponino]

First off, what would Jack do should come to mind, but we all know where he stood, don't we! It is nice to see progress of legalization, but it's really constricting, especially on your Rights, limiting the amount grown is wrong, and will not benefit anyone, you cannot smoke in public, and will goto jail (felony), there are no taxes for cannabis right now, or any medicine, and settling for this is unconstitutional. But there is another choice for cannabis users, and that is the California Cannabis Initiative, why settle?

 

[Gdood9]

And who will buy the mass produced crap verses the connosouire gold? How are these choices any different than we have today?

With the cost of growing indoors it won't be feasible once the cost of a p is cut down to nearly a third or more of what it is now. Even I think the cost of a p is way too high but if you cut that number in half or more you're looking at not being able to afford to grow indoors. When I just had 3 lights setup my electricity was ~$1000/month. Now my setup is over double that. Then you gotta factor in rent, other bills, etc... Not feasible with big price drops. Then we get back to the 5x5 argument. High cost licensing fees + growing cost. This is where big corp comes back in. There goes the little guy. A brewery is much cheaper to run than an indoor grow. Trust me, I've been looking into opening up my own brewery. Don't get me wrong, there will be high-end, but not much, not much at all.

Think about this. You won't even be able to sell your own shit to your buddies.

There's much more wrong with this bill though, I'm just harping on one part right now.

 

[Speedcat]

ImNotThatOneGuy NEg reps me for saying youll just have to make more friends. he says this "i aint got to make more friends punk bitch, aight". FUCKING tards like you are the weed snob, pussies that probley smoke 12 year old kids out because you think your ghetto cool. fuck you and your bullshit. fags probley sitting behind a computer in his southpole clothes while his mom is calling for him for dinner.

 

[Hackk]

Marijuana taxing is not the only thing that can cure our states debt. Prostitution, and state run casinos are also options, but since the TERRIBLY written prop 215 passed, lawmakers and activists have been brewing up a solution, and this new act is their scapegoat. Everyone thinks it will be legal and thats the end of it, but thats far from the truth. This new initiative is awesome when dealing with the prison system and "wrongly" accused prisoners associated with MJ, but this initiative is TERRIBLE when it relates to the private user (you and I).

"(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale" accompanied with "(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence "...

unless you were born on mars, the idea of getting only 1 ounce from ONE plant, let alone from a 5x5' growing area is crazy. You can piss on your plants and still get more than 1 ounce of dried marijuana per plant. Does this make sense? No, it doesnt. In other words, its making it illegal all over again to grow.

What does make sense is this will now open up a whole new can of worms. This makes it so that you are almost FORCED to buy retail MJ from stores, and guess what? BIG TOBACCO has already bought up ACRES of land in norcal just waiting to plant those seeds (even though Big tobs stance is against this because they feel it will slow cigarette smoking, they are also attempting to monopolize for the future.) Since big tobacco, and every other idiot with a seed and watering can is going to flood the market with their mass-produced (grade B or worse) smoke, it will also lower demand and prices. Thus forcing the real growers (grade A smoke) to drop out of the business due to the larger competition (example starbucks putting family owned out of business) all resulting in the quality of MJ declining rapidly.

The last thing I want to point out, is legal taxing. Once this passes businesses and dispensaries will now need special licenses (which are also undefined), and the growers will also be taxed. Please explain to me how Joe the grower can report income from a job that is STILL FEDERALLY ILLEGAL? Does federal tax return ring a bell? So now all those growers that have been making your delicious bluedream and GDP etc, will no longer grow because it is illegal to grow over a 5x5 area, and its still a federal crime, so them getting taxed admits to crime, and there's no other way around it now since its all "legit"...

But enough of my ranting, read this act, and please express your opinion. But you can understand why I am voting NO
http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/initiative/

 

[Hackk]

I realize my above post is kind of a repeat of whats being said (words of mine copied from a snowboard forum, trying to educate the less informed), but everyone has to realize the true impact this will have on california if it passes.

People, just because you have a MMJ card, doesnt give you the right to be selfish. Just because you can grow more, doesnt make this bill any less destructive. It's giving complete power to the large companies, while making us (the scene) helpless in our endeavors. This bill is truly terrible, and needs to be rewritten, even if that means a few more years of fighting...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

And who will buy the mass produced crap verses the connosouire gold? How are these choices any different than we have today?

Umm... look at tobacco. They're the ones that are pushing this.

Tobacco companies can easily handle the "Needs" of a tobacco using nation with only a few hundred varieties of tobacco being grown. Hell... it's JUST TOBACCO! The only main differences (That affect the end smoker) in tobacco strains are taste and the amount of nicotine.

CANNABIS IS NOT TOBACCO! You cannot have 100 strains of cannabis and properly supply a nation. Hell, they don't even HAVE my strains in 95% of the places you would buy anyway.... and NOTHING from the dispensaries even touches my personal stuff. It's great for me... and still not perfect.

This passes and, well.... medicinal cannabis is going to take a severe hit. LOTS of little guys are going to get whacked. and millions of patients/people will suffer.

Do I have a solution? No. Only an urge to Wake the f' up to what's going on in America.

Stay Safe!

 

[rdy]

More good points against the bill.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that this is a now or never thing, for at least another 6-10 years.

Yes, popular support for legalization is growing, but that is not enough. Look at the Iraq War, I bet there's a majority against the occupation but is the government going to follow suit? No.

Right now we have a pretty drug liberal President in Office, and that's huge IMO. With the way he's been painted as a socialist and the Tea Party bashing of liberals and democrats, the country may take a turn towards conservatism for a while. If that happens, the best bill in the world for pot won't stand a chance in hell.

I say pass TC2010, let smokers old and new enjoy their freedom, let the general CA public realize how unevil herb truly is. That way, if more restrictions or tyranny is imposed by politicians, they will have a much larger pissed off voter base.

 

[Hydrosun]

Second, full out legalization means that anybody can do whatever they want with as much pot as they want. 10 year olds can take bong hits, etc. This will NEVER happen.

Well right now 10 year olds can, but don't buy Niquil (50 proof, and lots of cool drugs too). 10 year olds can raid the firdge for beer and liquor cabinet for tequila. 10 year olds can grab lit cigs from an ash tray and puff away (my only puff was at age 8 at a party my parents thew, back in the day when all the adults smoked).

I understand you end the discussion with THAT CAN NEVER HAPPEN, but really why not? MJ is better than cigs, beer, cough medicine, etc.

Why don't we ask George Carlin (r.i.p.) about regulating adults to "Save the Children". George reminded all of us to "Fuck the Children!" (but not in the catholic church way).

Tell me again why weed needs to be treated differently than cigs, beer, or porn?

I really think MJ can be treated like beer and not many 10 year olds will be hitting the bong.

Peace,

 

[Rednick]

I say pass TC2010, let smokers old and new enjoy their freedom, let the general CA public realize how unevil herb truly is. That way, if more restrictions or tyranny is imposed by politicians, they will have a much larger pissed off voter base.

Thank you Richard lee

 

[SickBoyZap]

Am I the only one that is afraid of it being legalized? The small Mom and Pop growers are going to be put out of business! This shit is going to be everywhere. Good luck keeping AgriCorps out of the business.



Look what happened to the small farmers in the midwest. Remember the old rockwell paintings of the Yeoman farmer? They're all but gone. Corporate AgriBiz has made them obsolete. Tell me this is not just the begining of a corporate takeover of the industry. Drive the prices so low that the only person who can make a profit and be more competitive, have higher productivity and can produce product cheaper is the massive Agri-industry. For many 'THIS IS NOT A BUSINESS...IT'S A WAY OF LIFE'.



A 'bushy old grower' who has dedicated his life to learning and perfecting his art is going to go the way of the Alcohol "moonshiner"- just a memory.



PRICES ARE GONNA GO THROUGH THE FLOOR! I know people who make a 'legal' living off of supplying patients. They better get their McDonalds applications filled out.



The 'art'' and the 'culture' of Marijuana is going to be nothing more than a trip to the liquor store...the same as buying a 6 pack of beer...sad.



I say keep it Medical!

 

[Kalicokitty]

All the people I've talked to in the non-med states are praying that this passes, then we can say look at California, not only have they had MMJ for years, they now have legalized it for everyone(to a degree).
That can only help to usher in MMJ at the very least for us.
Sickboyzap and others of the same opinion, no offense, but how about looking past the borders of your state and your own little lives and worlds, and think of the greater good for the vast majority of us with not even MMJ in our states.
Please, this one time, how about taking one for the team, and voting yes.

 

[SickBoyZap]

No offense taken Kalico. Civil disagreement is the stuff of life. I think that no one would question either of our beliefs and integrity on this issue.

 

[Hackk]

Kalico, I understand your logic, however, I feel its the exact opposite! Voting for ths to pass, is actually voting AGAINST the team in a whole. Screw the other states, they have done very little to help develop the culture, economy, and strains of MJ that has slowly evolved in California over the years.

Let me ask you this, if you asked any average stoner in lets say Kentucky, "If you could legalize MJ in your state, would you do it even if it meant the MJ destruction in California?" I bet you the majority of all surveyed would all throw Cali under the bus.

So please, dont tell us to be part of the team, when we would be the ones hurting, and others would learn from our mistakes. When we can just vote NO, and re-write the whole thing. It may take a few more years, but it will still preserve the "scene" in the best way possible. This bill is written by the GREEDY, for the RICH to get RICHER.

I will say again respectively, VOTE NO

 

[Hammerhead]

It does not matter how many bills get written there is always going to be someone that does not like what's in it. It's a never ending debate on what I want. We can fix the issues with this bill later. If this bill fails I don't see another one in at least 3 years. I will be voting YES. Please remember this will not effect prop 215.

 

[Hydrosun]

I agree with Hackk, why the heck can't NORML or some other group write a bill which is fair for all? No change is better than bad change. I grow and smoke now and will after the bill passes or not.

The really scary stuff will come when CA's taxing nazis head to Mendocino county to collect $800 per lb on their outdoor harvests in 2011. I don't live in CA now, but I have the IRS is a bunch of Girl Scouts compared to CA's FTB (or whatever they call themselves now).

 

[Kalicokitty]

. Screw the other states, they have done very little to help develop the culture, economy, and strains of MJ that has slowly evolved in California over the years.

Let me ask you this, if you asked any average stoner in lets say Kentucky, "If you could legalize MJ in your state, would you do it even if it meant the MJ destruction in California?" I bet you the majority of all surveyed would all throw Cali under the bus.

Yes we would throw you under the bus, and let a new dawn begin for ALL OF US, right now you want to throw the rest of the states "under the bus" to preserve the way of life that you seem to think california invented.

It's the United States remember?
You want your own special little rules and scene out there then secede from the union and start up your own little country.

IMO, your worried about how it will affect you personally.