Talk is cheap, life is short

[grow nerd]

analogcricket, so far tried neem oil root drench & Spinosad foliar. It's about time for another neem root drench, but the Spinosad foliar does not seem to be effective. I am also throwing in a little bit of BTi once or twice a week, as a larvicide for any potential fungus gnat larvae or other larvae it may be good for. I have bad experiences with neem foliar from my indoor experience, so I'm trying to avoid that but will give it a shot if nothing else works.

Got some BTk on the way, Dipel DF Pro. I didn't like the fact that Safer's Caterpillar Killer (BTk-based) has petroleum distillates; don't like spraying gas-smelling stuff if I don't have to.

Right now I'm just crushing them between my fingers whenever I see them. It's been at least a couple days since I've looked close and found one, but I'll check again to see if any progress has been made.

I've heard Imidacloprid works, but I'm trying to avoid that, too.

Have you had any visits from cucumber beetles? What have you tried, and have you been successful in eradicating them?

~~~

Got 100 down, 300 to go. At least for this spot.



Scrapped the smartpot plan and gonna try the mound style, all the cool kids are doing it. Plus I don't like my pots to be too much smarter than me. Straight up uneducated and ignorant, just the way I like 'em.



Love the graphics on the Home Depot buckets. Every time I wanna put the buckets down and pick up a bong, I'm newly energized by the motivational "LET'S DO THIS" and stuff. That's why I don't shop at Lowe's.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Is that mound of soil on top of the tarp what you're going to grow in or am I missing something here?

 

[analogcricket]

a neem oil drench hasnt helped much and im not sure how well a foliar works. im worried about the baby larvae eating the roots. any other ideas for a drench to kill baby cucumber beetle larvae?

 

[grow nerd]

Is that mound of soil on top of the tarp what you're going to grow in or am I missing something here?

It's water-permeable weed block fabric. For some reason I didn't feel right letting the roots grow all the way to the bottom of the mound, physically touching the galvanized mesh, with a mat of roots that might grow below the mesh surface into the dirt I dug up. The reason is because while leveling some of these sites, I sliced through no fewer than 2-3 gopher/mole tunnels, and I'm afraid that the gophers might like the easy access to a ton of roots. Plus the soft, moist soil from runoff.

a neem oil drench hasnt helped much and im not sure how well a foliar works. im worried about the baby larvae eating the roots. any other ideas for a drench to kill baby cucumber beetle larvae?

So far without having done further research (yet), I'm hoping the BTi that I'm applying already for any potential fungus gnats is broad enough to also take care of any cucumber beetle larvae as well.

I won't be able to take a close look at the roots until I transplant, which will be soon. I'll take pics.

Also will be mixing in 1# of neem cake per 50gal of new soil, roughly 1/3# less than the "1/2 cup per cubic foot" (~92g per ~7.5gal) prescribed in the BIG PLANTS thread. I think it's close enough, plus that's all I have anyways.

And, like I said...

I eat cheap so my plants can eat good.

and so the caterpillars can't eat at all.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

I don't think gophers like moist soil...

I also have seen them come up around the mesh and in to the mound

Also seen them eat through the bottom of a smart pot.

are you scared now?

 

[grow nerd]

No because I'll just lay mesh on top of the mound.

I laid multiple layers of mesh below the weed stop fabric.

C'mon, try harder.

 

[grow nerd]

Oh, cucumber beetles:

Eradication efforts may include manual removal, clearing cultivated areas of litter, debris, and infested plants, and application of pyrethrin-containing insecticides such as Cyfluthrin or non-systemic organphosphate insectsides such as malathion.

Not sure how I feel about any of those, but some info on Malathion from the "A question about Malathion" thread.

Malathion is an organophosphate, and is pretty benign as organophosphates go. It's sprayed on a widespread basis for mosquito control and does the job. It would most likely do a number on most mites .
I don't know that much about floramite except that it also has a reputation for doing the job.
With any bug a few won't screw you up, but when numbers increase to where you gotta do something (poison) about them, then you gotta do something about them.

Choose your poison.

With either of these I'd give as long a period as possible before harvest to let the stuff wear off - just common sense.

There's a thread titled "Just wasted every plant with Spectracide's Malathion", where the guy overdoses and kills all of his plants. So use caution and don't overdose if you go that route.

I really need to get on this brewer thing, maybe brew up some nematodes (if they replicate during brewing). I'm not gonna go the Malathion/Imidacloprid route unless nothing else works, just hope it's not too late by then.

 

[grow nerd]

Backups



Backup of backups (aka Plan C)

 

[Backyard Farmer]

U should get all those outside. Outdoor plants belong outdoor or in. A greenhouse

 

[grow nerd]

Last time I went from rootbound to outside, they didn't appreciate it so much. This time, I thought I'd let them grow more roots in bigger pots before I put 'em out. So far no transplant shock to speak of. Decent amount of roots visible peeking down sides of the pots. Putting 'em out real soon. Expecting some HID to sun + wind transitional stress.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Don't put them in direct sun,

put them under 75 % light transmission Shade cloth for the first few days

 

[grow nerd]

Don't put them in direct sun,

put them under 75 % light transmission Shade cloth for the first few days

Will do, thanks.

I almost forgot learning that lesson from last time:

So far the information I have gathered leads me to believe:

• They got too much light from the get-go. Especially for such root-bound plants. Should have been done in dimmer lighting, or maybe some diffusive plastic covering / shading used until the roots caught up.
• Better watering methods needed penetrating the original rootball without overwatering the rest of the medium before roots take off.
• More food might be needed.
• Soil might be a little hot?

Gonna try to not repeat the same mistakes again.

Need a connect on 10'+ bamboo...

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Spare time supply does me right, every time.

 

[grow nerd]

Drank a bunch of tea, can't sleep.

Realizing that getting the 20-30 gallon transplants down the hill tomorrow will be a bitch. Hoping to let the soil dry out a little to make it easier. Other option is some sort of jerry-rigged hand truck or other wheeled device. I'm really more afraid of slipping or losing balance and damaging a plant than hurting myself; broken bones heal, although without health insurance I'm not sure which will be more expensive.

Also need to do something about the wind. It can get fierce especially at nights. Luckily the light dep is protected by the cover, and I have a makeshift wind shield for the vegging plants for now which keeps their branches from snapping (lost a couple branches prior to this). The windburn can't be too good for the plants either.

Not sure what I was thinking when I did the last minute switch to Vermifire for the backups. It's a bit more expensive but maybe I should follow through and do a couple of plants in Vermifire. Trying to follow fisher15 there but may make things more complicated for myself. So much for keeping things simple. Will probably end up running with the 420 Blend.

Can't wait 'til 2015.

 

[JointOperation]

lol tell me about it.. i was dragging out my 10 gallon smart pot with my 4 foot mom in it last night.. to plop on about 200 gallons of soil.. its a lil late.. but i had to get her into a 10 gallon and LST and top the shit out of her..

and get her from used to 24 hours of light to 16 without flowering..

but anyways.. i was carrying the bitch out..and walking across a lil bridge i made from sticks and downed trees.. and i lost my balance.. and stepped right into the swamp.. almost got my dick wet with nasty watery swampy nasty shit. saved the plant.. lol.. but got so nasty in the process.. lol good luck.. i just started flower on some sativa dom plants.. i figure.. i start flowerign now.. ill put them out july 10th.. to finish outside.

it deff helps to get longer flowering plants into flower before going outside.. so they deff will finish in my area.

 

[grow nerd]

416g neem cake, 47g karanja cake, 50 gal soil.



It'd be so much easier if the soil already had it.

Can't wait til 2015.

 

[grow nerd]

Took another look today, no less than half a dozen cucumber beetles chewing on new growth tips per vegging plant. Spinosad doesn't appear to be having any effect whatsoever.

Looks like adults can be quickly killed with pyrethrins, although it sounds like it's pretty temporary and will require re-application. And pests can build tolerance / resistance?

I did some neem and pyrethrin last night, and it promptly rained. so I think they have special powers.

Beneficial Nematodes will get rid of cucumber beetle larvae.
Use Grub-Away® Nematodes North-or Grub-Away® Nematodes South- depending on what part of the country you are in. Beneficial Nematodes are parasites that attack certain insects that spend at least part of their lives in (or on the surface of) the soil. They do not harm beneficial insects or earthworms.
Bt (Bacillus thuringiensis)-
Bt applied to the soil in the early spring after the first appearance of adults will also kill the emerging grubs.

On nematodes, it says "beneficial nematodes" although it seems like there are two types of nematodes, "beneficial" and "insect-parasitic" (as well as "plant-parasitic", but we won't bother with that as it isn't sold as a product). From what I can understand of it, the "beneficial" kind kills other harmful nematodes, which the "insect-parasitic" kind kills larvae / grubs and other non-nematode pests. It seems to me that I need the "insect-parasitic" kind, yet the quoted site above says "beneficial". Wondering if they misused the common word/meaning "beneficial", confusing readers with the type-"beneficial" nematode, when in fact they're recommending the "insect-parasitic" type.

Appears the "insect-parasitic" is the "S. feltiae" version... Does anyone know for sure??

Also... if I were to buy say a small sponge of these (1 million), can I multiply them in an aerated compost tea? I've seen people mentioning brewing nematodes in tea...

Site didn't list what strain of BT, but I'm assuming BTi since BTk is typically used as a foliar for caterpillars and other worms. Hoping the BTi that I've already been doing has been taking care of the larvae at least.

For S. felitae, looks like average pricing is about $3 per million units, slight discounts in larger quantities as usual. Thinking 10-25 million should do. I know you're supposed to mix with water and water it into the soil (preferably not while too hot or bright), but I was always curious how well it disperses in the water, like whether it floats, sinks, evenly mixes, or what. Somewhat of a pain in the ass when you can't see them.

IMO the information from the "Culturing beneficial nematodes" link below seems to be dealing with non-S. felitae varieties of nematodes, worms visible to the naked eye. I'll cut off a small piece of the sponge and try to culture some of my own anyways.

Considering imidacloprid...

The systemic insecticide imidacloprid will also kill fungus gnat larvae when applied to the growing medium.

Also:

An effective means of detecting the presence of fungus gnat larvae is to insert 1/4 inch slices or wedges of potato into the growing medium. Larvae will migrate to the potato and start feeding within a few days. The potato slices should be turned over to look for larvae present on the underside.

Seems logical that this larvae test should work for cucumber beetle larvae, as well as any larvae as the potato is a root that should attract them. Would really make my day to do the larvae test and turn up negative, after researching this pest all night.

Really hoping I didn't get the Mosaic virus or bacterial wilt disease from them. Seems like root larvae is the least of the problems from cucumber beetles. I have seen a couple twisted Mosaic-looking leaves. Only hope is it isn't affecting the entire plant and is local to the leaf/branch, but that's probably not the case and probably spreads through the entire plant. Will be doing a "bacterial wilt field test" tomorrow, checking for milky, sticky sap near the crown of the stem. The f'ing Wikipedia article for bacterial wilt lists the two species of cucumber beetles as the two causes of bacterial wilt spread... WTF! These pests are stressing me out, I didn't even know CB's existed. At first, I'm thinking they're green ladybugs...

[In reference to tomatoes...]

You can diagnose bacterial wilt by cutting the stem at the base of the plant. Look for discolored tissue. Suspend the stem in a glass of water. If it is infected, a white, slimy substance will ooze into the water within just a few minutes.

The presence of the E. tracheiphila causes the sap to become a milky color and acquire a sticky consistency. If the stem is cut near the crown and the ends are slowly pulled apart, the sap should form a viscous string.

These fuckers make spider mites, root aphids, and just about any pest I've seen or heard of seem like child's play.

Tomorrow, I'll need some "OTC" pyrethrin-based insecticide for use ASAP, and maybe look into a 5% PyGanic concentrate product to begin tackling this issue. Seems BTi might be doing the trick for the larvae, so I'll hold off on the nematodes until the potato test tells me otherwise. Really crossing my finger for the stem/sap test.

Amazing timing, just as they're coming out of transplant shock...

Resource links:

• [IC] Culturing beneficial nematodes
• [IC] Pyrethrin / Pyrethrum (as an organic insecticidal) fyi
• [OFFSITE] Cahri's Bugs Online - Cucumber Beetles
• [OFFSITE] Synergism of imidacloprid and entomopathogenic nematodes against white grubs: the mechanism (does not mention S. felitae)
• [OFFSITE] Effect of Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. israelensis and neonicotinoid insecticides on the fungus gnat Bradysia sp nr. coprophila

 

[grow nerd]

Not all nematodes are created equal, far from it, it seems.

The nematodes specifically sold for grub control can not be multiplied in ACT. They can only be multiplied with grubs. The reason being; the nematode infects the grub with a bacteria that it uses to feed off of. The bacteria feeds off the grub. As a result, the grub dies. No grubs, no baceria; no bacteria, no nematode.

 

[grow nerd]

Got a single lame bottle of Safer's Yard & Garden Insect Killer II (0.012% pyrethrins & 1.015% potassium salts of fatty acids). Cut the RTU spray bottle open, dumped it in a pump sprayer, and covered up some vegging plants after sunset.

Caught one cucumber beetle without damaging it, gave it a soak down with the spray, and made 'em wade through a puddle of it for a solid 20+ seconds. Kept on truckin'. Sprayed it down a few more squirts, nothing different than what I expect water would do. After about 3-5 minutes of waiting for it to twitch, die, or do something besides act like it got sprayed with water, I just smashed 'em and continued to finish spraying the rest of the bottle on the plants. I expected different, based on what I've read of pyrethrins. And the "kills on contact" advertisement on the bottle. I'd say it more than "contacted", and it certainly didn't kill.

Here's the Harborside Girl Scout Cookies from the "Purple City (PC)" vendor. Irritating me more every day. I've seen and smoked some supposedly "good"/legit GSC, and I still don't "get it". I'd much rather have Sour Diesel or SFV OG any day of the week. Personal preference I guess.

 

[CoastalKind]

I don't think gophers like moist soil...

I also have seen them come up around the mesh and in to the mound

Also seen them eat through the bottom of a smart pot.

are you scared now?

The gophers over here seem to specifically seek out the moist areas in my garden. I think they can smell the roots or the water. They always find my garden beds, always.