TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[Guest]

Amen Brother! I'm so excited I'm dripping whet.

I have about 7-10 days before I can put them into the rig (that isn't built yet..yikes) but I figured it would give me something to do while I'll wait for roots to pop.

bV. I don't think I could be any pinker.

speaking of which...bV., do you think that the R4 and foam board adhesive would hold water tight for the chamber I'm building or should I go ahead and pond-line it?

For those wondering I'm attempting to design and build a fully foam-board based TAG Table utilizing what I find at Lowe's and Home Depot. Its like this quest I'm on to see if a decent rig can be assembled from there.

This is the build out design... The discovery we found is like most systems if you have a strong and healthy 'heart' and 'brain' then you really don't need a lot of fat and extra weight. The machines can be made very lean and mean as the chamber is only to block light and keep vapor from escaping, but aside from that ...the sky is the limit to power of TAG.

We have still yet to do a garbage can grow using TAG...that would be like the old bio-bucket scenario. Anyone wanting to grow huge fuckin' trees? I'll help you out if you want to TAG a set of garbage can pods!

I might run one off my line for shits and giggles myself.

 

[JustATry]

PR - let me chime in on the foam board. It will not hold water with just the board and the adhesive. I tried this when I build my first rig, granted it was just the 2.5" thick styrofoam, but basically the same construction. You are going to have to use a pond liner or some epoxy to seal it up. I thought, "...oh yeah, it will hold water". Filled it up about half way and it started leaking like a stuck pig and then ripped at the seam.

Nothing like 25 gallons of water all over the floor. But then again PR, you should be used to the floods. But then again, I think we all are.

 

[Guest]

That seam looks pretty skimpy..lol But yeah, I figured as much. bV. mentioned having leaks as well, I just wanted to see if maybe a shitload of adhesive and the Blue Foam board was any more solid. Probably not..better safe than sorry and yeah...enough with the Water Park Rides..lol

So, here is the last of the multi TAG hopping NLxHaze. Unfortunately these gals went through about 4 rigs...I think..and didn't help them at all, but they persevered much better than the Indies.





At least I'll have something to smoke until the next harvest...

 

[Guest]

I forgot to answer PurpleSeed's question about 5th node vegging, verses no. veg.

The advantage of the 5th node cut is really a residual from my Pet-Grows. I don't usually use moms, I just took the top off the vegging clone (the part above the 5th node) for the new clone, then once in flower I trim the plants down so they only have 3-5 main branches and clear all lower branches (shitloads of clones) so that the bottom half of the plant below where the first bud-sight is completely bare. That way they get excellent air movement to their Stomata and focuses all the plants resources on feeding only the top 3-5 branches. Anything that would be a 'sucker' I cut and no popcorn if I can help it. I like to go for solid colas if I can and in TAE they get fuckin' fat as shit.

They look like this once harvested.


Now this was an experiment by another buddy of mine that was a zero veg experiment where he found (in soil no less) only a 2 gram difference between the one vegged for 1 month and the other directly from rooting.



So I'm ease either way. The same with Fan Leaf removal. The experiments I witnessed and participated in have born out that there isn't any real difference to be had either way...just allocation of resources. If the plant is going to generate 4 oz. its going to do it as a million popcorn buds or one huge ass cola...its up to you really.

I personally like big fat claws, like a porky guys fingers. but some like one huge bat. Its a personal pref.

 

[Guest]

I've built some FAG towers too..lol




Like I said, it can be done in any medium...just in TAG it takes about 20% less time, 40% the nutrients and the quality can not be matched...hands down. Once you've grown, harvested and smoked your first TAE generated bud you'll be a convert for life. I garruntee it!






Its funny looking back through that gallery...I really hadn't realized how much weed I've actually grown in my guest room. Sweet.

 

[whereisbrianV.]

I would have to concur with JAT about the foam board and holding water. The leak I had was from a section that I forgot to caulk; after I applied a bead of adhesive I have yet to have a leak. R2G I would make a frame to hold the pieces of foam board tighter so they do go their separate ways. That with adhesive and pond liner you will be golden, but I am sure you have all ready thought of such.

The TT-TAVG will be running after my trip to B.C. and will be packed from that point on. I am going to run clones (6"-8") strait to flower which depending on strain should give me some nice coverage.

 

[Nuggy]

looks really clean whereisbrain. how many plants are you throwing up in there?

 

[Purpleseed]

Nuggy!!!!Look one page back for your answer!
I had to use this smilie at least once!!
A shot of my shitty table soon to be harvested.those plants have been cooked between 90-100f due to inadequate A/C.
Still,HOG+Aero managed to give me those extremely frosty buds,you can see the crystal climbing up the mutant leafs stems!!!

Plants went up to the ceiling no more room for lights to be moved.That's what happens when you have hot temps+no blue spectrum!
Here a shot of the only big one,sodium burned!

 

[Guest]

Sorry..

Been there done that..lol I feel ya.

But at least you get the frost, eh? lol But I know..those rubbery mutant leaves are sick shit. Like they have started to reveg. (and they say you can't damage DNA with HID lamps...lol)

Here is my little heat stressed fuckup.


But they still get frosty



But here again...less is more.. less light equals more bud...

 

[Guest]

bV. every time I see a shot of your rig I swear I start to unzip my pants..

Its sick...I know, but damn that is a sweet piece of work my friend. You should be proud of that

 

[Purpleseed]

Altough the overall view is very pleasing and coming along very nicely,
side of leafs are twisting,what does that meen any idea people?
The only thing I can think of is maybe a little lack of micronutrients since sometimes I just throw straight R/O water and Cal-Mag every other water fill,or too concentrate solution ???(never got over 980 ppm).

A nice shot of the garden:

You can get a decent buzz just by looking at table#2 lower buds!

 

[Guest]

Wuzzup guys, nice start here Thanks JAT and PR for the invite.

Ya know, I've got a week left in my current grow in tubes and this looks like fun... I may have to tear it down and build a new rig Maybe a 1/4 scale of JAT's trailer sized rig..lol.

The biggest challenge I think will be building the tub. I work with plastic welding and fiberglass so I'm sure I can come up with somthing good to fill my space (8'x3'x6.5'). I don't have much room so I'll have to get pretty creative to be able to fill the floor space like I want and fit my chiller in there.

I'll be hangin' around and start posting here more when I start building.

Later, GroNut

 

[Purpleseed]

Welcome Gronut!!
Got some pics of your current grow?Is it aero?

I found this picture in the Icmag guide to sick plants:

My timer is now at 1 min. ON and 5 min. OFF.
Since they are getting bigger it would make sense that underwatering is the problem as everything is undercontrol.

 

[Guest]

Thanks PurpleSeed,

It's aero/nft tubes powered by an ecojet 120 which produces about 40 psi to sprayers. It works prettty well but the root zone space of TAE makes too much sense to ignore. Plus I like making shit so I'll try building a new rig and post progress and photos here.

I'm going to start some Soma NYCD for the next grow. I have 12 going in soil now that I will choose a mother from and flower from maybe 5 days of veg. So a SOG style.

 

[Guest]

NYCD mother finalists....




Current gro at 6 weeks...

 

[Guest]

Nice guys...I thought everyone dropped off as no-one posted for awhile.

I am envious of you Gronut that you can work with plastic fabrication. I got one of those plastic welder things..but it didn't work worth shit for me, but then again...might be operator error.



I'm closing in on finalizing my rig, I've got the bottom pan built and curing, now the pond liner, the spray line and then the top I'll be ready to rock and roll by next week.

Meanwhile I'm set for clones now as all of them have rooted! I have about 26 to choose from and I think I'm going to air layer a couple branches as well on the moms to see if I can't get a bigger branch rooted.





I'll have 16 spots to fill, currently I'm thinking of running the 2 feminized Cinnamons I have with the rest being NLxHaze and some RhinoxBlue.

Just for shits and grins I'm going to run a bio bucket of 4 next to the table and see what sort of difference I see, if any. Besides I need the the extra sites.

Alls looking fantastic guys...now all we need is a report from JAT and bV on how their rigs are holding up.

Oh, and happy 4:20 all.

 

[Purpleseed]

Hey!Hey!Was thinking the same Pod!It's not like you to leave those thread alone!
Nice roots on those clones!You think it will hold water ok???

Went to hydroshop and bought a Cal-Mag from Jurassic:

Now I'm really concerned about it doing the same job than Botanicare
Cal-Mag...They did'nt have it in stock.Hydroguy said it's better and cheaper...well I calculated that I can do 800 litres for 31$...while I can do 800GAL for 60 with Botanicare!
I was in hurry and did'nt care to calculate...anyways...I neede it!
It's in granular form but it's very soluble here's the analyses:

N: 12%
Phosphoric acid: 0%
Soluble K: 0%
Calcium: 10%
Mg: 3%
Iron: 0.3%
Mn: 0.05%
Copper: 0.03%
B: 0.01%
Zn: 0.01%

Do you think it will do the macro job for R/O water ??
It's not the time for me to fuck around now that I have something nice!
If I don't have a straight answer I'm going to return it,I don't want to fuck everything now!Clones,Mothers,Seeds,Flo!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

I was just going to post Purpleseed... I think you have a Potassium def and a Molybdenum def. It is either lockout or just def.

The K is causing the curling and a 'frying' you see. It is needed to build leaf material, if it is def, the plant allows the margins to dry out and die to conserve K.

Moly is used to put it to work and usually follows suit. Not uncommon in hydro and...if you are at weeks 6 I think you said? They'd be packin' K big time. You probably need a shot of P/K 13/14 or the like.

Not Cal Mag

I'm stoned so let me rephrase this:

Potassium is necessary for formation of sugars, starches, carbohydrates, protein synthesis and cell division in roots and other parts of the plant. It helps to adjust water balance, improves stem rigidity and cold hardiness, enhances flavor and color on fruit and vegetable crops, increases the oil content of fruits and is important for leafy crops. Deficiencies result in low yields, mottled, spotted or curled leaves, scorched or burned look to leaves..

K = Bud! period!

Molybdenum is a structural component of the enzyme that reduces nitrates to ammonia. Without it, the synthesis of proteins is blocked and plant growth ceases. Root nodule (nitrogen fixing) bacteria also require it. Seeds may not form completely, and nitrogen deficiency may occur if plants are lacking molybdenum. Deficiency signs are pale green leaves with rolled or cupped margins.


At this point you shouldn't need more Nitrogen in your mix really..you should be starving them for it a bit really if you want to finish them quick. If you want to let the buds take longer and fill out more...add Nitrogen, as it will slow the maturing process.

K is locked out by high levels of N and Low Ph so those are other factors to look at as well. Other than these, the only other is ventilation. If the leaves are too hot and respiring faster than they can pull up water they will curl and crisp as well under the heat stress.

Your watering cycle should be for about 30 secons every 3 minutes at this point, they are going to be drinking like fat fratgirls at a kegger! Get them liquored up and they'll be fertile and ready to seed....get it? :wink:

 

[Guest]

Actually go ahead and copy these to your hard-drive or gallery so you always have a ref. I found them very helpful when learning about how to read leaves. You'll need it for TAG..trust ME... you'll need it for TAG.

That same K def starts at week 5 for me as the K flip I talk about all the time. You are just far into it.



As you see here, CAL/MAG will actually lock out N and K so you'll get the same def.

 

[Purpleseed]

Well thanks for the answer...maybe I've been to low on micronutrients.
But it does look like the underwater pic don't you think?
I'll try putting another shot of pk13-14 if you suggest so,altough I was'nt about to do it,cause I noticed a slight burn,bristle leafs last time(or what I think it was!)

The Cal-Mag is for adding to the R/O water Pod!You think it's ok ???
I found this on the net:

Phosphorus
Like N, phosphorus (P) is an essential part of the process of photosynthesis. Plants use the energy of sunlight, and P must be present in the active portions of the plant for this energy transfer to be made and for photosynthesis to occur.
The immediate source of P for plants is that which is dissolved in the soil solution. Plants absorb P primarily as the H 2 PO 4 - and HPO 4 = ions which are predominant in most soils. The H 2 PO 4 - ion is more readily absorbed than the HPO 4 = by most plants. A soil solution containing only a few parts per million of phosphate ions is usually considered adequate for plant growth. Concentrations of phosphate ions in the soil solution may be as low as 0.001 parts per million. Phosphate ions are absorbed from the soil solution and used by plants. The soil solution is replenished fromsoil minerals, soil organic matter decomposition or applied fertilizers.

In young plants, P is most abundant in tissue at the growing point. It is readily translocated (moved about) from older tissue to younger tissue, and as plants mature, most of the element moves into the seeds and/or fruits. P is responsible for such characteristics of plant growth as utilization of starch and sugar, cell nucleus formation, cell division and multiplication, fat and albumin formation, cell organization, and transfer of heredity.


Potassium
Potassium (K) is absorbed by plants in larger amounts than any other mineral element except N and, in some cases, Ca. Potassium is supplied to plants by soil minerals, organic materials, and inorganic fertilizer. Due to the highly weathered status of Florida soils, their K supplying power is quite low in most cases. Potassium occurs in the soil solution as a monovalent cation (K + ). The cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the soil controls the retention of K + and in very sandy soils (low cation exchange capacity) under high rainfall, K is subject to leaching losses.
Potassium, unlike N and P, is not found in organic combination with plant tissues. Potassium plays an essential role in the metabolic processes of plants and is required in adequate amounts in several enzymatic reactions, particularly those involving the adenosine phosphates (ATP and ADP), which are the energy carriers in the metabolic processes of both plants and animals. Potassium also is essential in carbohydrate metabolism, a process by which energy is obtained from sugar. There is evidence that K also plays a role in photosynthesis and protein synthesis.



The product has ZERO of both!I got scared-shit and throwed a splash of Floranova Bloom in everything:Bubblers,FAG veggie and seedlings in FAG.
Have to mention,I started everything yesterday and they have some micronutrients defiency symptoms...some were there before and some not sure....