Surprise...the game is rigged

[HempKat]

There is a lot of anger yes, but amazingly almost all of the violence surrounding this issue has been directly perpetrated by the police, and supported by the system. The system is already broken, I think it's a question of how much further down the slope we'll allow it to go. I think so far, protesters around this nation have shown an incredible amount of restraint and focus. Moments like this, where people are just talking without censors or other conventional boundaries are what drive change like this. It's the fact that now people all over can talk to each other and they're really starting to see for themselves how people everywhere are like people anywhere when you get down to the basics. Conventional boundaries, and the hatreds that rely on them are breaking down. I think we really have some hope for progress if we don't lose the current momentum. Making sure people keep talking to each other is probably the single most important thing we can do. Change always happens eventually, but I think it's up to us to try to keep that change civil.

Well I only mention the occupy movement because they mostly target the rich as the source of all our ills. Beyond that though the occupy movement is really the pacifistic expression of the unrest that's out there. Listen to the song "Burn It Down" by Linkin Park though and other songs like it I can't help but feel there is a much more violent group then the Occupy movement that just haven't formed yet or if they've formed they've yet to reveal themselves. I also consider how things seem to go in other countries when the masses revolt against their government. Iraq could have been spared alot of the trouble they had restarting their society had the citizens not so thoroughly looted and destroyed thier infrastructure.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

IMO, Gold as an investment, hedge or whatever is a fine consideration. The fact that some aren't fortunate enough to get in and out at the right times is little indication that gold as an investment is a bad idea.

A gold standard isn't practical. It won't happen.

Managing debt takes responsible lawmakers. Sometimes we get them and sometimes we get clowns.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

flower, I dunno if we agree... I'm saying that even if you put your savings in gold, you will still suffer inflation... there's really no way around it, it's the nature of the beast.

as far as silver coins, they are more valuable than the same amount of silver not-worked.

just search and you'll see for yourself; I remember silver 25 cents coins, that would cost 20 dollars in the 90s, and people would buy them to make rings out of them; they'd buy the coin which was more expensive than the same amount of silver because out of the coin it was much easier to make rings with very simple tools.

Even if gold isn't keeping up with the rate of inflation its still better then any alternative that I can think of - in terms of savings.

If you know of some other low-risk place to park savings that can outpace inflation I'd love to know about it.

Silver coins are only valuable for their metal content unless they have some type of numismatic value. Sure there are small premiums on them..but for the most part your paying spot price on the 90% of silver they contain. I've bought pre-64 coinage for many times at spot or below. Others charge a hair over.

oh, and for those arguing that gold actually gives "the people" more financial freedom, I'd like to know exactly how.

afterall, like it has been said tons of times already, you'd not be able to use gold if you could not trade it in for paper money.

it's a very inmature argument to state that storing in gold will free you from the "evil elites"; if the "evil elites" were so evil, they'd just deny "the people" from exchanging their gold into an useable currency.

For the same reasons I've already discussed.
It gives stackers financial freedom because it gives control over ones own money with no counter party risk. My savings do not suffer the debasement as paper savings do. While manipulation does occur in the precious metals market the "elite" can not dilute my physical holding.

I disagree in regards to the ability to purchase things with gold without converting it to paper currency. While the US has strict tax laws on a competing currency, there are many places around the global where you can spend gold. Even more so in countries were people would love to hold some gold while avoiding VAT tax and such.

But thats not my point. I'm not a doomsdayer looking to trade gold for food in some type of mad max scenario. I'm merely protecting my savings due to the currency crisis we are currently in.

I would happy invest into a strong economy (and still do a little with rehab property and small business) , but right now we can only try to make best of what we are experiencing. If the market makers would let true price discovery happen maybe things would turn around.. but in a market being held up with funny money its a straight gamble right now. The regular investor is out (because they cannot win).. the markets are made up of large institutions and hedge fund managers.

But I agree...which was actually one of my original posts.
Screw Facebook IPO...

One is way better off buying some earth moving equipment or some landscaping stuff and creating some jobs. It produces jobs and income.. which of course is much better then gold. Invest in small business/ invest in main street.

Invest in yourself...
..and save in Gold and Silver.

Bottom line is right now we are in a global currency crisis. There is no easy way out of it.. Its either print or default. Some could argue we already have defaulted..but the longer we continue to put paper band-aids on the harder its going to be down the road.

We are in unprecedented times..the common working class man needs to protect their livelihood... and I don't think anyone can argue that. We shouldn't be occupying these large banks.. we should be protesting the Federal Reserve.


Happy memorial weekend everyone


Disco, Watch that figure change drastically as Obama takes a 2nd term.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Banks and lending institutions are sitting on record capital. They're just not lending it because their deregulated pipe dream caused em to mistrust each other too much. Besides, they make more money gambling than lending.

 

[bentom187]

we cant pay debt with debt.

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[DiscoBiscuit]

We owed more as a percentage of GDP after WWII. We returned deficits to manageable until a monkey's supporting actor said, "Let's jump". Once manageable debt is now made unmanageable by the same recalcitrants who blow their wads, turn around and become deficit hawks.

It's a totally irresponsible argument to start chopping with absolutely no idea what the consequences will be. Sure, ending the Dept of Education will produce mass dumb asses that make today's dumb asses seem like Pericles. Only problem, instead of a few million, (like we had before the Dept Of Education) we'll have em in the hundreds of millions.

That's corporate strategy co-opting government.

Ideology is merely imagination without the practical experience to apply it and achieve positive results.

 

[barnyard]

exactly...

exactly...

Banks and lending institutions are sitting on record capital. They're just not lending it because their deregulated pipe dream caused em to mistrust each other too much. Besides, they make more money gambling than lending.

banks and corporations are the richest ever

B.A.D. Bottom Line "the horses are on the track"

 

[bentom187]

rp says it was liquidating the debt,and cutting spending and having the income of the troops, that got us out and regulation that prolonged the depression.paul krugman doesnt deny it either.

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[lost in a sea]

they could invest,, its not that they dont trust each other,, thats stupid because the same group of people control all of those corporations,, and did from day one,,

they are holding all that capital back at the moment to kill demand, because that drives in this "austerity" bullshit and widens the gap between them and us and allows them to drive up the cost on everyday commodities further strangling the common person and shifting more power towards government and corporations,, which is exactly what they need right now,,

its only a temporary part of the plan, like most things in history, and if you know what is happening and when it is happening then that is worth far far more than money, or power which money obviously buys you,, its all about control and influence and creating the storyline.. ie writing history,,

but make no mistake, in the west, there was only ever feudalism, no capitalism or socialism and the so called "elites" are letting it become more obvious on a grand scale,,

call it what ever you want but its a paradigm shift and that is why things are changing faster than ever on every continent..

this promethian flame being unveiled and at the same time is blinding people with a thousand points of light,,

 

[SpasticGramps]

Managing debt takes responsible lawmakers.

Then we are up shit creek without a paddle IMO. The corruption runs too deep. Hope we make out better than these guys.

Greece warned of public finances collapse Financial Times

Greece’s public finances could collapse as early as next month, leaving salaries and pensions unpaid unless a stable government emerges from the June 17 election, according to Lucas Papademos, the technocrat prime minister who left office after this month’s inconclusive vote.

Mr Papademos warned that conditions were deteriorating faster than expected tumbleweed with cash flow likely to turn negative in early June amid a sharp fall in tax revenues and a loosening of spending controls during two back-to-back election campaigns.

California kind of looks like our Greece IMO. Just a matter of time until the math doesn't work anymore. Revert to the mean.

 

[bentom187]

stossel on mainstream economic thought lol.

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[whodare]

We owed more as a percentage of GDP after WWII. We returned deficits to manageable until a monkey's supporting actor said, "Let's jump". Once manageable debt is now made unmanageable by the same recalcitrants who blow their wads, turn around and become deficit hawks.

Yep it's all those goddamn republican's

What did you forget all the social welfare programs, regulations, and limitations by the demopublicans?

It's a totally irresponsible argument to start chopping with absolutely no idea what the consequences will be. Sure, ending the Dept of Education will produce mass dumb asses that make today's dumb asses seem like Pericles. Only problem, instead of a few million, (like we had before the Dept Of Education) we'll have em in the hundreds of millions.

I can't believe I have to beat you over the head with these facts again
Record per pupil spending for 0 improvement, you must like throwing good money at bad.

This graph nicely displays the plateau of achievement reached in the early 80's, right after your precious DOE.

we do know the cosequences after the DOE was instituted, our students have lagged behind other countries in science, math, and reading. So we know what implementing the DOE did, maybe it's time to try something else.

That's corporate strategy co-opting government.

Ideology is merely imagination without the practical experience to apply it and achieve positive results.

I guess if education was a free market those corporations wouldn't be able to use gov to co-op their strategy, whatever that is... This statement from you reeks of Alex though

Should everyone have the opportunity to get an education absolutely, but the fact is that spending hundreds of millions of dollars to provide largely unsuccessful programs aimed at making sure that unqualified, and indeed unmotivated young people get diplomas or degrees is ridiculous and just being politically correct.

If you look at, for instance, the level of academic qualification for college students in the 1970s and compare to today, there is a vast difference, along with there being many fewer students going to college in the 60s and 70s compared to now. Ask any college professor of significant tenure and they’ll tell you that what were undergraduate level programs in the 70s are now graduate level programs, and that tests in virtually any subject were much harder then than now and that ’harder’ means requiring more critical thinking skills



But hey I'm sure your just full of practical experience that knows exactly what students need to succeed.

 

[HempKat]

we do know the cosequences after the DOE was instituted, our students have lagged behind other countries in science, math, and reading. So we know what implementing the DOE did, maybe it's time to try something else.

I guess if education was a free market those corporations wouldn't be able to use gov to co-op their strategy, whatever that is... This statement from you reeks of Alex though

Should everyone have the opportunity to get an education absolutely, but the fact is that spending hundreds of millions of dollars to provide largely unsuccessful programs aimed at making sure that unqualified, and indeed unmotivated young people get diplomas or degrees is ridiculous and just being politically correct.

If you look at, for instance, the level of academic qualification for college students in the 1970s and compare to today, there is a vast difference, along with there being many fewer students going to college in the 60s and 70s compared to now. Ask any college professor of significant tenure and they’ll tell you that what were undergraduate level programs in the 70s are now graduate level programs, and that tests in virtually any subject were much harder then than now and that ’harder’ means requiring more critical thinking skills

But hey I'm sure your just full of practical experience that knows exactly what students need to succeed.

I agree that the way education is being handled today is a joke. That whole stupid idea of teaching to the test is what has dumbed down education, thanks Dubya.

Still rather then throw the whole thing out why not make it work right? With were we are globally on education it just doesn't seem like a sane rational plan to scrap the whole system to hope and wait for something better to emerge from the ashes.

What gets me though is how it can be so expensive we actually start to think this way. I don't know about nationwide but I know that several states sold their public on the idea of a state lottery because it would supplement education. Yet inspite of the billions lotteries rake in each year our education system has steadily been hacked to pieces and our students on average are growing steadily more stupid. I say don't kill the department of education but rather fix it. First kill this notion that just because a teacher has been a teacher for x number of years they get a guarenteed salary and job. Second create a system where teachers advance or fail out of the system by performance. Third institute a zero tolerence policy against teachers who try to have sex with children and do more to try to screen out people who would engage in such behavior, before they ever become a teacher. There's far more that needs to be done but those things would be a good start.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

they could invest,, its not that they dont trust each other,, thats stupid because the same group of people control all of those corporations,, and did from day one,,

they are holding all that capital back at the moment to kill demand, because that drives in this "austerity" bullshit and widens the gap between them and us and allows them to drive up the cost on everyday commodities further strangling the common person and shifting more power towards government and corporations,, which is exactly what they need right now,,

its only a temporary part of the plan, like most things in history, and if you know what is happening and when it is happening then that is worth far far more than money, or power which money obviously buys you,, its all about control and influence and creating the storyline.. ie writing history,,

but make no mistake, in the west, there was only ever feudalism, no capitalism or socialism and the so called "elites" are letting it become more obvious on a grand scale,,

call it what ever you want but its a paradigm shift and that is why things are changing faster than ever on every continent..

this promethian flame being unveiled and at the same time is blinding people with a thousand points of light,,

We can't loan and sit on record capital simultaneously.

Inter-bank loans were once common practice. Then we deregulated the banks so they didn't have to cover their loans in the event of default. This is where the trust factor tanks.

Now big banks borrow primarily from the Fed.

 

[bombadil.360]

flower, ok, we could be reaching some sort of agreement in regards many things.

it's also good to know you're not part of the stooges here claiming doomsday; can you say psychosis?

anyway, one thing that I think is important to highlight, is that the economical crisis is not really being caused by printing paper or not printing... and these measures are not really band-aids... these are just the only things that the people that can make the decision to print more paper can actually do.

they cannot, for example, force people to stop investing in lottery-like stocks, since as we have said already, these make so much damage to the economy, the actual economy, than printing some paper money to keep up with the amount of people producing and consuming an economy of Scam we could say, for lack of a better term.

all this chaos is in the hands of the so-called 'people'; all these scammers and scammed individuals who got into 'stock market' are all made-up of 'the people'.

in reality, there's no such thing as 99% and 1%; what we have is a 100% lot of greedy individuals who blame each other for all ills, while never admiting any of the faults that they do in fact embody.

with this mentality, nothing is going to be fixed; no matter how many 'occupiers' ocupy whatever they want.

it's easy to post graphs and news articles written by propagandists and claim 'victim' status; and expect someone else to solve all problems magically...

peace!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yep it's all those goddamn republican's

What did you forget all the social welfare programs, regulations, and limitations by the demopublicans?



I can't believe I have to beat you over the head with these facts again
Record per pupil spending for 0 improvement, you must like throwing good money at bad.

View Image


This graph nicely displays the plateau of achievement reached in the early 80's, right after your precious DOE.

View Image





we do know the cosequences after the DOE was instituted, our students have lagged behind other countries in science, math, and reading. So we know what implementing the DOE did, maybe it's time to try something else.



I guess if education was a free market those corporations wouldn't be able to use gov to co-op their strategy, whatever that is... This statement from you reeks of Alex though

Should everyone have the opportunity to get an education absolutely, but the fact is that spending hundreds of millions of dollars to provide largely unsuccessful programs aimed at making sure that unqualified, and indeed unmotivated young people get diplomas or degrees is ridiculous and just being politically correct.

If you look at, for instance, the level of academic qualification for college students in the 1970s and compare to today, there is a vast difference, along with there being many fewer students going to college in the 60s and 70s compared to now. Ask any college professor of significant tenure and they’ll tell you that what were undergraduate level programs in the 70s are now graduate level programs, and that tests in virtually any subject were much harder then than now and that ’harder’ means requiring more critical thinking skills



But hey I'm sure your just full of practical experience that knows exactly what students need to succeed.

Let's pull the exchange out of the ideological hole and introduce practical application.

How much more are you paying for the private education for your children? My next door neighbor is currently paying ~$12k a year for K thru 12 for 3 kids. The fuck head doesn't even realize he's saddled for hundreds of thousands of dollars (financed over several decades) so he's quite likely to see 7 figures in his 3 kids primary education. His children's education isn't worth 7 figures and too few can afford it.

Have you compared what you pay versus what you get in return?

Home school? I hope you're not subjecting your children to cruel and unusual punishment. If I had to listen to you wax poetically over ideology you NEVER apply, I'd hang myself in the middle of class.

 

[bombadil.360]

If I had to listen to you wax poetically over ideology you NEVER apply, I'd hang myself in the middle of class.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Home school? I hope you're not subjecting your children to cruel and unusual punishment. If I had to listen to you wax poetically over ideology you NEVER apply, I'd hang myself in the middle of class.

Right, because group think and hive mentality is much more useful to the state to maintain the status quo.

DOE has been on the scene for several decades and Americans have statistically become dumber and dumber every year. What's the statist solution? Why more central statist intervention, of course, which has led to an entitled, spoiled, lazy, and dumb population.

Our future is bright.

 

[SpasticGramps]

LOL @ FaceBomb

Facebook Slide Continues Even As US Market Closed

The market may be closed but that does not mean long, well, short-suffering FadeBoon longs get a respite: courtesy of FB's German tracking stock, it appears that the stock traded down another 1.7% during today's trading session. This shift (adjusted for the EURUSD) implies a 2.7% drop from Friday's USD day-session close and extends the after-hours rout that occurred. And in even worse news for FB bulls, rumor has it Europe may open tomorrow again.

The EUR24.935 close today (-1.7% in Germany) implies around USD31.05. FB closed at USD31.91 on Friday (and slipped after-hours to USD31.34) inferring that Germany's equity traders see FB trading down 2.7% from Friday's US day-session (and still down from the after-hours close)...

 

[SpasticGramps]

it's also good to know you're not part of the stooges here claiming doomsday; can you say psychosis?

No one is talking about doomsday. Some are talking about economic reversion to the mean.

anyway, one thing that I think is important to highlight, is that the economical crisis is not really being caused by printing paper or not printing... and these measures are not really band-aids... these are just the only things that the people that can make the decision to print more paper can actually do.

You do have some lucid thoughts. Just trouble working them to their logical conclusion.

consuming an economy of Scam we could say, for lack of a better term.

There is another one of those lucid thoughts.