Stressed plants and can't figure out why.

[Lester Beans]

It is best to leave the plants undisturbed in a COMPLETELY dark area. Light interruptions can cause many problems, such as hermaphrodite flowers that could polentate your room.

The plants are looking like they will make it. I would just feed the base nutrient until recovered.

There is a wealth of info on this site, you sound like you have been bitten by the growing bug, and we can assist you to a full blown growing addiction lol.

Best!

 

[Aeroguerilla]

A wise man on icmag once told me... "when in doubt flush it out"

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

If your using a high quality nutrient line in the proper amnts

then it boils down to


PH Envrionment Pests/Disease

Check runoff ppm/ec and dont go heavy on em never go above 1.2ec in my garden

when the ppms are raising then i know im letting the coco dry out to much or im throwing something off.

A simple flush with base nutes as others have suggested and stay on your regular light cycle .


Youd be surprised how much environment plays a role in the health of a plant in veg.

Bloom I feel like they can handle a little more but in veg they like It nice and warm especially dominant sativas




AJAE

 

[Cat Jockey]

Cat, if you had to run coco ( )....

would you run say 5.2-5.6 range then? I seem to get better results running lower than the always recommended 5.8

I wouldn't run co-co.

A reason I hesitate to say that's 100% cool is because now you are working against the nute mfgs and co-co has special needs. I haven't mixed a batch of co-co nutes up for a while, but 5.6-8, or so, is where they start out, IIRC.

In addition to not finding any Cal/Mag or Epsom Salts in my growrooms, you won't find any pH adjuster. Well, on very rare occasions, I will modify the pH, but rarely and not as a normal course of action.

It doesn't matter if you are mixing up 400 gallons for hydro systems, or a one gallon jug for a couple plants in 3 gallon containers - you are doing the same thing; namely mixing up a nutrient solution. If you are using a 2 or 3 part base nute, you can fuckup your solution just in the process of mixing it. An example being not adding micro nutrients first. If you put your grow/flower nutes in your res/jug and then add your micros, you can literally fuckup yo' shit to the point where it is not even usable by the time you get it mixed up by precipitating out nutrients.

This is because every component you add to your nute solution is changing the chemical composition of it. You are doing science and shit, mixing and matching chemicals to achieve a solution of a specified pH and containing specific proportions of specific elements. Here is an example of someone intentionally fucking up a res:



The white stuff on the bottom are nutrients that have precipitated out of the solution. In this case, the pH was placed over 7.0, and held there for a bit. Just the pH caused nutes to preceiptate out of the solution. You can also do the same thing - fuckup yer res and precipitate out nutes - by doing things like adding grow/flower nutes before your micros (which ALWAYS go first).

Point of all of that is that you are CHANGING the chemical composition of your nutrient solution when you start adding pH Up or Down to it (NEVER add both Up & Down to the same solution - go too far one way, throw it out and start over). In addition to the natural degradation of your nute solution that using pH Up & Down correctly creates, add that shit wrong and you can really fuckup up your solution to the point you need to throw it away and start over before it ever touches your plants.

So, if I was using co-co and co-co nutes, I probably wouldn't adjust the pH, as I will be undoing some of the work of the mfg and potentially causing more harm than good. I would be more inclined to use a base nute that starts around 5.2 when you first mix it up. But again, co-co has some 'special needs' and needs 'special needs' nutes. Like the fact that it likes to steal Ca from your rootzone and hold on to it, so just doing it the way I would be inclined will cause problems that co-co users experiences, which caused mfgs to develop 'special' nutes for.

If you are using co-co, I consider you to be 'stuck'. I believe one to have painted oneself into a corner. It ain't the worst corner in the world, and all of these years later, nute mfgs have done enough research to make that corner okay. But it is a charade, for it is not really okay - weed likes a different pH range than the Co-Co Corner forces. Your best bet is to use 'special' co-co nutes and follow the mfgs suggested use, including pH.

That is one of my main issues - you CANNOT change Sweet Lady Jane's genetic preference for the rootzone pH range she prefers. But if you run co-co, you are forced to start the pH higher than preferred.

Weed farming is like everything else - there is an upper echelon of a relatively small number of people. Most people have not smoked that upper echelon weed, and those that are lucky enough to come across some batches don't forget them. These become the 'memorable' sacks of weed they still talk about years later. A lot of people learn to grow some pretty damn good weed using co-co. But it is a 'patchwork' process (try using co-co nutes on another medium and see what happens) and you will never get to that upper echelon, that upper 90% of quality and 'knock-yer-dick-in-the-dirt' effects, restricting the pH to a range that is too high and too limited.

Just as growers and nute mfg have 'learned' over the course of 10-15 years to deal with co-co, I could learn to drive my Bronco backwards. Give me a few years, and I'l get real fuggin' good at it, maybe even modify the gearing (special co-co nutes) so I can drive faster in reverse to 'fix it' and keep up with other cars (other growing mediums) on the road.

But why? In the end, I will not be able to drive as fast or as well and my neck is going to end up hurtin' like a mudder fugger from turning around when I don't have to.

Yer hurtin' yer Sweet Lady Jane's neck by forcing her to drive backwards, in a position (pH range) she does not prefer. 10-15 years later, growers and nute mfgs have got her drivin' backwards pretty good, but she's still driving the wrong damn way and her neck is sore ...

 

[Cat Jockey]

He wanted help with his current problem, not your thesis on why you don't like coir. I glazed over it and will read it again later, as your opinion does appear informed and thought out.

This dude wanted help with his grow. The BEST thing he could do in his current situation, if he had access to rooted, healthy plants, was to start over. Period. Because even if delayed 2-3 weeks, he has a much better chance of a higher quality and quantity harvest.

Start over including his nutrient regime and getting an RO filter. And since he is starting over, why not use a medium that doesn't come with the NEGATIVES co-co does. Since that is what I think best in his current situation and it certainly will go against Internet Expert opinion, for anyone curious and passionate, like myself, about weed farmin' and doing it as best as possible, I think it only right to actually explain that opinion.

And that takes words, sentences, and paragraphs. Not Tweets or posts the length to assuage those who are afraid to read.

Pretty much the ONLY reason a new grower uses co-co is because of ADVICE they got somewhere. Be it the grow store, a friend, or here.

That advice about co-co is MISGUIDED and overall NOT in the best interest of Sweet Lady Jane farmin', IMO. That's a fuck of a claim I'm making, ain't it? There is a whole fuggin' sub-forum here dedicated to it and mfgs are making special nutes for it and I am saying to throw the shit away. It, like with my opinion on Cal/Mag, Epsom, pH adjusters, etc., are all based upon keeping the fuggin' correct rootzone pH conditions, which is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve with co-co.

Takes some words to explain all of that dude. Kiss my ass if you think I should feel bad for taking this thread 'off-topic' or putting anyone out for not pretending this is Twitter, instead of what it really is: a forum based around the horticulture of Sweet Lady Jane, a subject that has many deep discussions within it. Anyone can keep on scrolling by when they see that snowcat in my avatar if they want to. No sweat off my balls.

Were it legal decades ago, there would be PhDs today considered as global Cannabis specialists. Growing weed is a subject that requires a lot of words to fully discuss. I could literally write a 500+ page plus book on growing weed, as could other experts.

Don't read my posts because they 'have too many words' if you don't want. Just keep it to yourself and spare me the cryin' about it.

While your eyes may be glazed over, which says more about you than me btw, this ain't some stuffy fuggin' sceintific textbook shit I am laying down. Don't read it if your attention span has issues, I don't fuggin' care. But it is more than the OP, you, and what's his name I am talking to here. This thread has over 1,000 views at this point, and I have received MULTIPLE PMs from people thanking me for my posts in this thread that have glazed your eyes over.

What exactly do you think the problem with the OP's grow is, dude?

Bad Advice.

That fuckin' simple. At least, that is my opinion of his problem. The dude got bad advice from somebody, starting with that nute regime. And there is plenty of BAD ADVICE on the weed forums, including this one and including in this thread.

And plenty of people, perhaps some other beginners with issues amongst those 1,000 views, operate from very SIMILAR bad advice as the OP. Believe it or not, I am as succinctly as possible trying to counter that bad advice. The only thing I haven't done yet is suggest a new nutrient regime, because as someone else said about his, "Holy Fuck!".

Not only have I made the claim that I think it bad advice, especially for someone new to start in co-co, I SUPPORTED that opinion with a reasonable argument. That takes words. More that a Twitter Tweet's worth.

I triple mudder fuggin' dog dare anyone to tell me how the pH range co-co forces one into is what Sweet Lady Jane prefers. I have showed at least three different growing systems using the same nute regime. I can do that because I run the RIGHT pH range in the rootzone. You cannot run that range with co-co. This means that co-co comes INHERENT with limiting factors for pursuing the harvest of Da Digity Dank. Period ...

 

[Mikell]

Apologies, I was busy at the time I wrote that. As I am now, so I'll just tap out this "Tweet". I'm glad you've mastered how to make weak assumptions, but there is nothing concise or succinct about you friendo. Your post "looks" interesting, but for the odd grain of information that's buried under a mountain of your "thoughts" re: chaff, not the content as a whole. Hence why I pushed it aside for when there's plenty of time to waste sifting. Apologies if that makes you butthurt, but it's reality, and one I know you've encountered before.

 

[Cat Jockey]

^^^^ Yawn.

If your busy, why the hell are you checking back to see what I said? Why don't you get back to work then, and quit crying about my post length. Like I said, I could write 500+ pages on this stuff, and it ain't no sweat off my balls if you don't read a word of it.

Sad to see your knowledge is so limited you don't understand I just gave a bit of a beginner grow guide from a different perspective and angle (minus exact nute regime) including and FOCUSING on correcting some serious and widepsread misconceptions, like proper pH, MJ being a Cal/Mag whore, etc. Go with TRUE LST (not what most think it is and many tutorials describe), only prune leaves not getting light, learn the lift-the-pot method for dirt, etc.. Maybe a couple other minor points I missed.

Again, how 'bout an argument as to how there are no negative effects from forcing MJ to grow in the WRONG pH range? Ain't got those, do ya? Just smart ass quips like the one above.

Yup. Seen your type plenty ...

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

i think you are overstating the downside of coco. the calmag cation exchange problem is overblown and not noticeable to me when i feed in the right ratios. all mediums have thier particular preparations and dont inherently lend themselves to herb but is technique is tailored to the most convenient medium to the growers other needs. coco works really impressively well compared other methods ive tried and as for "dick in the dirt potency", my herb has broken and tied records at labs here in oregon with several of my samples on a few different strains. all grown in coco. performs freakin great. its all in ow you use it but i dont find it hard to dial coco personally. its actually the easiest style of growing iveused in regards to having really great plant health and vigor. smell is off the charts so i dont think ill be returning to soil indoors anytime soon. ive never been excited about a recirculating rez either. dtw coco hydro ftw.
op needs to dump all the additives and run a simple two or three part liquid base schedule with no add ons other than ph. go right off the bottle instructions but at half strength. it works better than any custom recipe ive seen.
or for even easier and cheaper results a 1 or two part salt. jacks is my favorite but gh maxigrow and bloom cant be beat. all can get top shelf connoisseur results in the right hands.

after you figure out a correctly balanced feed ratio and how to calculate it and learn how to feed at the right e.c. strength the brand of nutes or the add ons will be the least influencial factor in your grow for quality and yield. its more about enviroment and culture and harvest style than grow nutes. if the plants have all the esssential they need at when they need em theyll express as well as their environment is dialed. p/k wont increase yield nearly as much as dialing your vapor pressure deficit.

focus on dialing your grow parameters before you step beyond a simple A and B base nute at 1.2 e.c. max in flower with multifeed coco under 1ks. after you master temp and humidity youll be ready to tinker with the boutique snake oils.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

i run my coco at 5.5 minimum on up to 6.4 max but my target zone is 58.-6.2 my tank rides close to that without much messing with ph up or down.

 

[Scott42012]

Well fuck... Whilst going through the garden checking out the plants, pulling leaves and what not, I see bite marks on a leaf. Mite bite marks. So I whip out the ole loupe for a closer look and sure enough these little cocksuckers have been chewing and shitting on this plant. Found four others with them. Caught them early at least. They are still looking greener though as far as the original problem goes.

 

[Dkgrower]

Tip when you water have minimum 10% run off and pls newer let the coco medium dry out, keep it wet 24/7

Skip all your nutes and use canna coco specific nutrients. best option for you and most simple

 

[Cat Jockey]

i think you are overstating the downside of coco.

I obviously disagree. Further, it is downsides. Plural. Go hang out on an orchid forum, or a cactus forum, etc. Improper pH ranges in the rootzone are not MINOR downsides to most of those people - why should weed growers be any different? The main difference with weed growers being a complete lack of understanding about the proper pH range in soiless mediums ...

the calmag cation exchange problem is overblown

Hardly. In fact, the problem is so bad that this medium unlike every other medium I have used actually requires the use of Cal/Mag or a 'special' nutrient that only works in co-co.

I think you are underestimating the actually problems with co-co, and I further suggest most people are completely unaware of these inherent problems.

and not noticeable to me when i feed in the right ratios.

And those ratios are ?...?

all mediums have thier particular preparations and dont inherently lend themselves to herb

No offense, but that is just flat out wrong. Many mediums lend themselves, inherently, to weed farmin'. Don't try to attack other medium's suitability to try to bring them down to co-co's unsuitability level for comparison, 'cause it ain't accurate to do so...

but is technique is tailored to the most convenient medium to the growers other needs. coco works really impressively well compared other methods ive tried and as for "dick in the dirt potency", my herb has broken and tied records at labs here in oregon with several of my samples on a few different strains.

I have been involved in the dispensary industry. Most weed pubicly available in the Medical States through the system is what I consider sub-par. In places like Oregon, that is what your weed is being tested against in a lab. No offense, but it is the way those labs work and their actual majority customer base that brings weed in to be tested. Further, they do not test for everything that has an effect upon The Stone of your weed, so I consider those labs to be somewhat incomplete in their analysis.

all grown in coco. performs freakin great.

Co-co can perform very well, I've said that, but never great - for it keeps the rootzone in the wrong pH range, and if you study any other flower, you will understand you will NEVER get full genetic expression when keeping the rootzone in the wrong pH. And this is well known.

Never. Cheer up. It only means you can grow even better weed than what you are now ...

i dont think ill be returning to soil indoors anytime soon.

If you were using a peat/perlite/vermiculite based medium before, you were NEVER using soil. Maybe you treated it like such, as 99% of weed farmers do, including the wrong pH, and that's why your results sucked. It doesn't get any easier for indoor container growing than PPV with a good amount of perlite.

You are trying to continue a myth with all of that there - that co-co is 'easier and grows better weed'. That is bullshit, on both accounts. It is NOT easier than PPV. You probably weren't around when people started using it in the early days. Today, people like you just give mfgs more money to make it work okay (good, but never great) - they do the co-co prep and nute formulation for you. People just follow bad nutrient/pH advice with PPV.

Hate the growa' and bad advice s/he followed, not the medium ...

i've never been excited about a recirculating rez either.

Nothing I say is limited to a recirc res. Everything I say is for EVERY growing medium, except co-co, of course.

op needs to dump all the additives and run a simple two or three part liquid base schedule with no add ons other than ph.

A good start. pH adjuster is the WORST add-on for a beginner though, and really not necessary in any garden of any size. Further there are good add-ons for beginners, like a rootzone conditioner. A few years ago, I tested DM's Zone against Roots Exel. Not only was Zone way cheaper, but I actually liked it better. Gave great big bean stalk roots like Excel, but mixed better in a nutrient solution.

Nothing wrong with a beginner following mfg's advcie on Zone. Since I'm on the subject, whether hydro or PPV, I suggest beginners start with GH's 3-Part. A bazillion people have grown really good weed with it and information about that is plentiful. Further, it is stable and consistent and mixes well with other products from other mfgs.

It also starts, mixed up, at the right point, pH wise - in the low 5's. Don't fuck with it with a pH adjuster. If containers of PPV, water this with 10-15% runoff (people claim no runoff=no problems are wrong. You can still grow really good weed with no runoff, but not GREAT. Period. Never and because of SCIENCE of the rootzone shit).

Follow GH's proportions. They have changed those proportions in the last couple years or so, so you will see the 'old' ratios on the forums, like 15G/10M/5B for veg, etc. I talked to GH about this. I couldn't get a real reason for the change, nor a clear recommendation I should abandon the old way for the new one. Means to me the formulation changes are based around profits and how to maximize them. Use either what you find on GH's site or the 'old' formulas.

Keep the ratios, but the STRENGTH will vary from garden to garden. If you ain't under a 600W+ (or are in RDWC) with healthy plants, start at half strength (especially under CFLs), and ramp it up from there to suit your specific environment.

If you must play with a bloom booster, be careful, and use ONE thing from GH (just for convience with their 3-part). What someone said about he environment is HUGE. Take care of that (control temps, humidity and airflow) before you even THINK about things like a CO2 generator or fuckin' with a new nute regime.

NO Cal/Mag with GH, EVEN WITH RO water (RO water not optional in 2015, IMO).

If hydro, let the res pH rise naturally and dump it when it starts going over 6.

Stay away from Lucas Formula, since I suggest GH.

That ought about do it. I'll let any co-co sycophant that wants to INCORRECTLY claim that co-co is easier and better than other mediums for container growing have at it - they have a medium and some pride to defend after all of the "co-co is so fuckin' awesome and grows the best weed ever!" comments they have left here in the past ...

Hopefully a few people received some benefit from my posts. Don't believe the co-co hype, for it is largely bullshit ...

Toodles.

 

[Mikell]

^^^^ Yawn.

If your busy, why the hell are you checking back to see what I said? Why don't you get back to work then, and quit crying about my post length. Like I said, I could write 500+ pages on this stuff, and it ain't no sweat off my balls if you don't read a word of it.

Sad to see your knowledge is so limited you don't understand I just gave a bit of a beginner grow guide from a different perspective and angle (minus exact nute regime) including and FOCUSING on correcting some serious and widepsread misconceptions, like proper pH, MJ being a Cal/Mag whore, etc. Go with TRUE LST (not what most think it is and many tutorials describe), only prune leaves not getting light, learn the lift-the-pot method for dirt, etc.. Maybe a couple other minor points I missed.

Again, how 'bout an argument as to how there are no negative effects from forcing MJ to grow in the WRONG pH range? Ain't got those, do ya? Just smart ass quips like the one above.

Yup. Seen your type plenty ...

Would you enjoy this more if I added a few thousand almost useless words inbetween my smart ass quips? Or is that too close to plagiarism?

Or maybe, I've also seen your type before, and know you will gladly carry this thread 6 or 7 pages with the least bit of provocation, if I didn't end this here. The OP is gone and you're still here flapping your lips to hear yourself speak. Spin a few more yarns about the Coco-Boogey man if you get bored.

On that note,

 

[stoned40yrs]

That ought about do it. I'll let any co-co sycophant that wants to INCORRECTLY claim that co-co is easier and better than other mediums for container growing have at it - they have a medium and some pride to defend after all of the "co-co is so fuckin' awesome and grows the best weed ever!" comments they have left here in the past ...

Hopefully a few people received some benefit from my posts. Don't believe the co-co hype, for it is largely bullshit ...

Toodles.

Seriously, toodles? That was quite a rant. I'm glad I never read every word. It's Coco, no - or are you ranting about co-co cola? I see the problem, I'm living on a mountain in Alaska and I am higher than you are living on those little mounds in Colorado. Coco was made in heaven for mankind to have the perfect medium to grow Marijuana in. If us believers weren't so stoned on coco grown dank we would take care of all you infidels.

 

[DrFever]

Alhough some of the stuff you say is correct and sorry didnt read all your posts

for the life of me Cal mag is a necessity in Weed farming and especially in Coco although you do not use it or ph up n down i personally really don;t give a shit you into your 40's i am into my 50's lol again who gives a shit
To the op hope things are coming around for you and and hope you got a better nutrient line for coco
when growing in coco you need to supplement your plants with extra Cal / mag
As for for your grow IMO you need to get your ph in check looks like it all started at the root zone with just that cal and mag deficiency once it hits and you dont catch it it will hit all the leafs rather quick
and this is where i know the ph in your root zone is fucked get it in line there buddy

 

[shredGnar]

^^^^ Yawn.

If your busy, why the hell are you checking back to see what I said? Why don't you get back to work then, and quit crying about my post length. Like I said, I could write 500+ pages on this stuff, and it ain't no sweat off my balls if you don't read a word of it.

Sad to see your knowledge is so limited you don't understand I just gave a bit of a beginner grow guide from a different perspective and angle (minus exact nute regime) including and FOCUSING on correcting some serious and widepsread misconceptions, like proper pH, MJ being a Cal/Mag whore, etc. Go with TRUE LST (not what most think it is and many tutorials describe), only prune leaves not getting light, learn the lift-the-pot method for dirt, etc.. Maybe a couple other minor points I missed.

Again, how 'bout an argument as to how there are no negative effects from forcing MJ to grow in the WRONG pH range? Ain't got those, do ya? Just smart ass quips like the one above.

Yup. Seen your type plenty ...

Can we see some sources?? I've read maybe 10% of your chapter length responses and they all seem claim based and opinionated ...

For me coco works GREAT

 

[Cat Jockey]

Can we see some sources??

Could you be more precise on for what exactly you'd like to see sources?

I've read maybe 10% of your chapter length responses and they all seem claim based and opinionated ...

What is up with a couple of you cryin' about how long my posts are? Don't fuckin' read them, read 10%, I don't fuggin' care. Just quit cryin' about it, for fuck's sake. I got a couple of you now who are both claiming co-co is great and I don't now what the fuck I am talking about - yet you both are claiming to not have even read my posts.

What are you two? Fuckin' mind readers that 'absorb' my posts enough without reading them to start telling me I am wrong? How does that shit work and can you teach the rest of us to do it too?

Opinionated? L-the-fuck-O-L, dude. That's describes 99% of what you'll find on this, or any other site - a bunch 'o opinions about what works best, including the co-co forum. Hell, the ONLY way to truly diagnose a nute def/tox is through tissue analysis. This whole fuggin Infirmary is nothing but people giving opinions.

Why the fuck you want to exclude me from the 'opinion party' here? Cause you can't counter my arguments? That ain't very cool or fair ...

For me coco works GREAT

What the fuck was that you just said? Oh yes, it was:

I've read ... responses and they all seem claim based and opinionated

&

Can we see some sources??

That's your OPINION that it works GREAT. And the only way for you to SOURCE that claim is to let us all smoke some of yer shit to judge for oursleves. Again, why the hypcracy of co-co cheerleaders getting to present their opinions about it, but my opinions, cause they run counter to yours, need to be less 'opinionated' and 'sourced'.

Calling me 'opinionated' also carries with it more negative connotations than just saying, 'that's your opinion'. I see right through that shit, but good job trying to jump on the Peanut Gallery Bandwagon to throw a couple insults my way ...

Gimme a break, dude.

You did try to argue a point for co-co a few pages back I meant to comment upon:

Coco is not like peat... it holds enough o2 even when saturated for plants.

I don't advocate growing in pure peat. I advocate a quality PPV that has more perlite added to it. What I advocate contains PLENTY of O2 in the rootzone, too.

That is why they constantly water and they love it.

That there is one 'o dem matters of opinion you think it okay for you to issue, but not me. Yer going to have to show me some 'sources' on MJ liking to be CONSTANTLY watered in co-co ...

In my experience with peat you do need wet/dry cycles to allow room for O2

I don't think you understand what that wet/dry cycle fully encompasses, though. You are thinking only in terms of 'managing' the moisture content of the growing media in order prevent an over/under watering situation in your ladies.

But, what is NOT my opinion and what MOST (you no doubt included my fellow Coloradan) weed farmers don't seem to grasp is that PPV is NOT FUCKIN' SOIL. It is a soiless growing medium and needs to be treated as such. I probably have more than 10% of your attention in this post now, so let me repeat something that you may have missed in my chapters, and you and 99% of PPV users fail to comprehend:

PPV in a container is a hand watered, drain to waste hydro system. Not a 'dirt' grow or a soil grow. You don't get all of that, which has implications regarding your statement from page 2 I quoted.

When you let the rootzone go from being saturated (when you first water) to just the point of getting dry, you are not just managing the moisture level in the growing media. You are also managing the pH range in the rootzone, allowing it to start low on initial fertilizing, to then trend upwards as things happen down there with exchange and moisture absorption and the media drying out.

It ain't just about H2O versus O2 in the rootzone (your argument here about why co-co is so super fantastic) - it is about the pH range of the rootzone and how that pH changes as the media dries and how that is good thing.

That is why I can run one nute regime on PPV, E&F, RDWC, etc., and on 60+ strains with no bullshit Cal/Mag, etc. - cause I run the right pH range for Sweet Lady Jane, something you really cannot do with co-co.

I manage the pH range of the rootzone, something you have LIMITED ability to do with a medium you are constantly keeping saturated.

Look, the pH range you can expose the rootzone to in co-co is more limited than most medias and it starts too, high. Period. Co-co, for whatever preceived benefits, takes control away from you, the grower, for certain things. Does satisfying and good weed that is better than average and better than what many people can get their hands on come out of co-co? Sure.

Great weed, like top-notch upper echelon stuff, though? That's just your opinionated statement, for which you need to provide a source for my bowl, please ...

 

[Cat Jockey]

PPV NOT being soil is anything but a minor point. Take a look around. Even the forums WRONGLY call it indoor soil growing. Most of those weed farmers supposedly using soil are not - they are using a PPV mix, which is SOILESS.

Maybe a couple of you are seeing how this works ...

Grower A, call him shredGnar or that other dude that told us that he 'isn't going back to soil indoors anytime soon', is growing in PPV. They didn't add any extra perlite to it. Additionally, they are running around telling everyone they are growing in soil. They check the forums and see that the 'proper' pH for soil grows allegedly starts in the upper 5's. On top of that, because most growers do, they start doing things like adding Cal/Mag to the nute mix cause MJ is allegedly some kind of tramp or Cal/Mag whore, and fail to learn simple things like the 'lift the pot' trick for watering and keep their plants slightly overwatered.

And they just can't achieve the results they want and decide to give co-co a try. They go with co-co nutes and follow mfg instructions instead of all of the fucked up Witch's Brews you come across on the forums from beginner and intermediate growers (always with Cal/Mag included, of course) that were fucking up their plants in PPV, and start growing in co-co and have better results.

Then, they think they had some kind of fuggin' Growing Epiphany and come to ICMAG and say how fuckin' awesome co-co is and how their weed is soooo much better than when they were growing in soil.

Problem is, they were NOT growing in soil and there was nothing wrong with the PPV, other than it could benefit from a bit more perlite. What was wrong was the advice and growing techniques.

I assure you that these Growers As, had they been using co-co a few years ago, would not be having the success they have now. And that is because ill-informed growers kept buying the shit, showing nute companies there was money to be made in developing special nutrients and controlling the quality of co-co off of people that wrongly keep calling and treating PPV like soil and consequently fuck up their plants. It took a lot of years for smart people at these compaines to develop stuff that will work so that co-co doesn't actually FUCK UP your plants.

A gram/watt ain't that big of a deal in 2015, not like it was a decade ago. Enough growing equipment and nutrient refinements, combined with genetics make that a very achievable goal.

Even for an intermediate grower ...

 

[shredGnar]

Could you be more precise on for what exactly you'd like to see sources?

What is up with a couple of you cryin' about how long my posts are? Don't fuckin' read them, read 10%, I don't fuggin' care. Just quit cryin' about it, for fuck's sake. I got a couple of you now who are both claiming co-co is great and I don't now what the fuck I am talking about - yet you both are claiming to not have even read my posts.

What are you two? Fuckin' mind readers that 'absorb' my posts enough without reading them to start telling me I am wrong? How does that shit work and can you teach the rest of us to do it too?

Opinionated? L-the-fuck-O-L, dude. That's describes 99% of what you'll find on this, or any other site - a bunch 'o opinions about what works best, including the co-co forum. Hell, the ONLY way to truly diagnose a nute def/tox is through tissue analysis. This whole fuggin Infirmary is nothing but people giving opinions.

Why the fuck you want to exclude me from the 'opinion party' here? Cause you can't counter my arguments? That ain't very cool or fair ...

What the fuck was that you just said? Oh yes, it was:

I've read ... responses and they all seem claim based and opinionated

&

Can we see some sources??

That's your OPINION that it works GREAT. And the only way for you to SOURCE that claim is to let us all smoke some of yer shit to judge for oursleves. Again, why the hypcracy of co-co cheerleaders getting to present their opinions about it, but my opinions, cause they run counter to yours, need to be less 'opinionated' and 'sourced'.

Calling me 'opinionated' also carries with it more negative connotations than just saying, 'that's your opinion'. I see right through that shit, but good job trying to jump on the Peanut Gallery Bandwagon to throw a couple insults my way ...

Gimme a break, dude.

You did try to argue a point for co-co a few pages back I meant to comment upon:

I don't advocate growing in pure peat. I advocate a quality PPV that has more perlite added to it. What I advocate contains PLENTY of O2 in the rootzone, too.

That there is one 'o dem matters of opinion you think it okay for you to issue, but not me. Yer going to have to show me some 'sources' on MJ liking to be CONSTANTLY watered in co-co ...

I don't think you understand what that wet/dry cycle fully encompasses, though. You are thinking only in terms of 'managing' the moisture content of the growing media in order prevent an over/under watering situation in your ladies.

But, what is NOT my opinion and what MOST (you no doubt included my fellow Coloradan) weed farmers don't seem to grasp is that PPV is NOT FUCKIN' SOIL. It is a soiless growing medium and needs to be treated as such. I probably have more than 10% of your attention in this post now, so let me repeat something that you may have missed in my chapters, and you and 99% of PPV users fail to comprehend:

PPV in a container is a hand watered, drain to waste hydro system. Not a 'dirt' grow or a soil grow. You don't get all of that, which has implications regarding your statement from page 2 I quoted.

When you let the rootzone go from being saturated (when you first water) to just the point of getting dry, you are not just managing the moisture level in the growing media. You are also managing the pH range in the rootzone, allowing it to start low on initial fertilizing, to then trend upwards as things happen down there with exchange and moisture absorption and the media drying out.

It ain't just about H2O versus O2 in the rootzone (your argument here about why co-co is so super fantastic) - it is about the pH range of the rootzone and how that pH changes as the media dries and how that is good thing.

That is why I can run one nute regime on PPV, E&F, RDWC, etc., and on 60+ strains with no bullshit Cal/Mag, etc. - cause I run the right pH range for Sweet Lady Jane, something you really cannot do with co-co.

I manage the pH range of the rootzone, something you have LIMITED ability to do with a medium you are constantly keeping saturated.

Look, the pH range you can expose the rootzone to in co-co is more limited than most medias and it starts too, high. Period. Co-co, for whatever preceived benefits, takes control away from you, the grower, for certain things. Does satisfying and good weed that is better than average and better than what many people can get their hands on come out of co-co? Sure.

Great weed, like top-notch upper echelon stuff, though? That's just your opinionated statement, for which you need to provide a source for my bowl, please ...

Yea, you're right that I post opinions, and also that the vast majority of this site is in fact opinion.

The difference is most everyone else posts their thoughts and leaves it alone.. You, however, feel the need to ram your beliefs down everyone's throats.

Also I am growing about 20 different strains currently, and have grown many more, with just base nutes and have zero need for cal mag..

Have run 6/9, heavy 16, currently run h&g and I think I want to try canna next.

I don't really notice any better performance. I believe all the perceived pH problems and nutrient lockouts are really just caused from improper watering schedules causing under oxygenation.. Again, just my opinion based on my experience.

I guess one day we will have to meet up and swap some nugs!!( just kidding admins who read this )

 

[Scott42012]

Can anybody point me to some threads about rootzone ph? Found a few articles on it. I kind of understand what it's talking about. Plus I've been checking the ph on run off and it's in the 6.0-6.5 region. Not exactly sure if that's good or bad. Also fighting the borg... That is always bad.