"STRAINS" or Varieties and Cultivars?

[Bob Green]

End the BX too why not?

The real terms are BC1, BC2, etc

We don't xross genetics we CROSS them.

Being that I was raised by a very high level Horticulture Professor I understand where Sam is coming from but telling people that that tall skinny thing is a NLD Indica, and that 100% of all sativas are hemp is like saying the sky is falling, and fire is wet..

But Indica, and Sativa have been HOUSEHOLD NAMES for far too long to just up and change their definition and it's the doing of those now complaining. Twilight zone .

 

[Koondense]

Everyone is so used to slang that a bit of logic behind proper words makes more confusion than order.
Ghetto talk, indica/sativa... Always knew it was wrong yet still everyone talking ghetto talk.

 

[EastCoast710]

people like sam are in a totally different level then 99% of us so. why switch it up.. what so I can say it on forums but to my customers and friends ill have to fucking correct them all the time.. shit I still hear people saying u got this STRAND.. instead of STRAIN. they are already to confused.. lets just not confuse them anymore lol .

 

[Bob Green]

just for extra information
sativa was used for "domesticated plants" .
fist time a cannabis plants was described as indica was by a french naturalist mr Sonnerat in 1781.
here is the plant .
https://youtu.be/sxUIPdnAReQ
[youtubeif]https://youtu.be/sxUIPdnAReQ[/youtubeif]

Everyone is so used to slang that a bit of logic behind proper words makes more confusion than order.
Ghetto talk, indica/sativa... Always knew it was wrong yet still everyone talking ghetto talk.

Apparently this ghetto talk has gone on sense the 1700's. It really is time to put an end to this madness.

 

[Bob Green]

So WLD won the battle between BLD, and WLD broad vs wide?

I see both thrown around quite a bit?

 

[Mate Dave]

Cultivars are varieties which are cultivated and differ from a natural population which they have become segregated from botanically. They needent 100% come true to type and probably have origions in the sinsemilla trade and part hermi without a natural need to come true to type from seed for the longevity. Possibly somewhat more consistant than a wild population but with more depression present genetically.

'Strains' are more crosses from breeders working from selected inbred stock indoors away from wild populations/natural field work where in a niche, different varieties of pollen source can be introduced safely.

Technically it's subspecies and provenance still. They do not recognise stuff here beyond that level of subspecies. Regardless. America has no types without seed


My personal preference for categorising cannabis is the "lineage" and if possible useing the breeders notes and handbook as a guide.

 

[MJPassion]

What about genotype vs phenotype?

Genotype is strictly referencing the genetic code.

Phenotype is reference to how that code expresses its outward apperance or physical characteristics.

While a particular cultivars genotype is never changing, it's phenotype can show variation according to different envoronments.

 

[shishkaboy]

Genotype is strictly referencing the genetic code.

Phenotype is reference to how that code expresses its outward apperance or physical characteristics.

While a particular cultivars genotype is never changing, it's phenotype can show variation according to different envoronments.

By that logic, pheno hunting a pack is also a misnomer.
Shouldn't it be genohunting?

 

[MJPassion]

By that logic, pheno hunting a pack is also a misnomer.
Shouldn't it be genohunting?

Your correct as long as your environment is variable.

Indoors, under strictly controlled conditions, pheno hunting is perfectly legit since you are looking for the plant that performs in your particular environment the best. "Best" being subjective to a particular growers standards.

Geno hunting can be left to folks like Chimera, Sam & University botany departments who have access to the equipment used to look at specific DNA sequences.

We pheno hunt because we're looking at outward expression.

 

[bombadil.360]

well then you obviously know what you are doing ( scientist ) and you will win everytime by using different terminology. The only problem will be no effective communication. But the excellent chess player will have better understanding of science even if he uses wrong terminology. He will be able to reproduce results ( win again and again ). Compared to the other player where he knows all the names for the rules and pieces but he is a crap player.

An excellent chess player will for sure know the proper names for all the pieces. Just as an excellent grower should know proper terminology when talking about plants.

Another example: lets say you need a new carbon filter, and there are no shops around you that carries them, you can only buy online, but you call the carbon filter "the round thingie" and you don't know the actual name.

What are your chances by googling "the round thingie" that you have trying to find a carbon filter?

 

[l33t]

An excellent chess player will for sure know the proper names for all the pieces. Just as an excellent grower should know proper terminology when talking about plants.

Another example: lets say you need a new carbon filter, and there are no shops around you that carries them, you can only buy online, but you call the carbon filter "the round thingie" and you don't know the actual name.

What are your chances by googling "the round thingie" that you have trying to find a carbon filter?

You are missing the point. Neville did much better than most of the "scientists" we have on board that use proper terminology. I know many excellent pianists that don't know how to read the pentagram. Breeding and growing is an art about understanding, there is no direct correlation with language spoken or written or taxonomy or terminology but for sure can help a lot since you can be taught so in some cases it's a must. Someone that doesn't use the same terminology will be able to explain using language ( by describing ) perfectly what his actions are and you will understand immediately.

Why would I go around ask for a round thingie when I can ask for a roundie thingie that you push air through it and it purifies it(removes smell) ? Worthless example and exactly why you are missing the point.

Don't forget we don't all agree on British and American ( or French or Italian or Isreali ) taxonomy or terminology and some countries have different systems and use different words and terminology. Sometimes much more advanced that describe things better than the English language.

But lets agree to stick with English language and correct terminology. Do you find that Sam uses correct terminology when he refers to clones as cultivars or seedlines as varieties ?

 

[MJPassion]

Just think this is appropriate considering the subject matter...

Those of us that want to be technically correct have the right to do so.

Those that are considered professionals in their field of study are expected to be technically correct.

Those that wish to remain technically ignorant are disruptive to the class in session!

 

[bombadil.360]

You are missing the point. Neville did much better than most of the "scientists" we have on board that use proper terminology. I know many excellent pianists that don't know how to read the pentagram. Breeding and growing is an art about understanding, there is no direct correlation with language spoken or written or taxonomy or terminology but for sure can help a lot since you can be taught so in some cases it's a must. Someone that doesn't use the same terminology will be able to explain using language ( by describing ) perfectly what his actions are and you will understand immediately.

Why would I go around ask for a round thingie when I can ask for a roundie thingie that you push air through it and it purifies it(removes smell) ? Worthless example and exactly why you are missing the point.

Don't forget we don't all agree on British and American ( or French or Italian or Isreali ) taxonomy or terminology and some countries have different systems and use different words and terminology. Sometimes much more advanced that describe things better than the English language.

But lets agree to stick with English language and correct terminology. Do you find that Sam uses correct terminology when he refers to clones as cultivars or seedlines as varieties ?

I agree with Sam that generally speaking, when refering to cutting/clones, cultivar is very appropiate, and for a seed line that is closely related, variety is a good term.

This is very helpful in the sense that if people just call everything 'strain', then you can't tell what is what.

For example, people talking about Gorilla Glue #4 and call it a Strain. I can think this is an F1, a heirloom seed variety, maybe even a clone only cultivar, agreed?

But if the word used was Cultivar from the very beginning, I'd not need to speculate as to the true nature of the gg#4.

 

[Thcvhunter]

Sometimes I feel like this OP tries to start arguments in his threads. Anyone else feel the same way?
Any comments get deleted by the OP yet?

Maybe I should start here???LOL..
I can assure you my intention was clarity, all of the recent DNA work has basically shown that Karl Hilligs work was correct, he first suggested NLD, WLD, NLH, WLH, as a way to separate Cannabis into different related families better then Sativa or Indica, Rob Clarke and Mark Merlin just agree with his work, genes do not lie....
-SamS

Yup, didnt take too long before Sam used his Mod powers to edit a post.

smdh

Sam,
See how I used this quote feature? Please do the same and refrain from altering another member's post.
Please remain constructive, helpful, and empty of an ego when trying to help the community

 

[l33t]

That would be all good if cultivar actually meant clone only cause cultivar means something else. So instead of people saying clone only like they used for ages now you want them say cultivar. And since you say clone only cultivar you might as well skip the cultivar part.

And what about if someone refers to gg4 s1 clone as cultivar ? And even if they say this is a BG cultivar how do you know its not a strain/variety also ? You are again missing the point.

"A cultivar[nb 1] is a plant or grouping of plants selected for desirable characteristics that can be maintained by propagation. Most cultivars have arisen in cultivation but a few are special selections from the wild. "

Propagation can be seedplants too.

I understand there is certain slang(cough terminology) between the horticultirist groups and scientific ( or so called scientific ) groups but language is language and definition is definition and when these groups' words' meanings drift from the original meaning of the word so much they might as well create a new word and call it Ajskdnjfdsk rather than cultivar.

Cheers,
l33t

 

[Rudedewd]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

 

[Raco]

Don´t give up Sam!

Don´t give up Sam!

 

[shishkaboy]

Your correct as long as your environment is variable.

Indoors, under strictly controlled conditions, pheno hunting is perfectly legit since you are looking for the plant that performs in your particular environment the best. "Best" being subjective to a particular growers standards.

Geno hunting can be left to folks like Chimera, Sam & University botany departments who have access to the equipment used to look at specific DNA sequences.

We pheno hunt because we're looking at outward expression.

Gg4 and gg1 are different ______ of gorilla glue.

Which fits best genotypes or phenotypes?
Edit: Or chemotypes

 

[theJointedOne]

My buddy said he lists his genetics (male X female) , while I list mine (female X male).

Which is correct?

 

[bombadil.360]

That would be all good if cultivar actually meant clone only cause cultivar means something else. So instead of people saying clone only like they used for ages now you want them say cultivar. And since you say clone only cultivar you might as well skip the cultivar part.

And what about if someone refers to gg4 s1 clone as cultivar ? And even if they say this is a BG cultivar how do you know its not a strain/variety also ? You are again missing the point.

"A cultivar[nb 1] is a plant or grouping of plants selected for desirable characteristics that can be maintained by propagation. Most cultivars have arisen in cultivation but a few are special selections from the wild. "

Propagation can be seedplants too.

I understand there is certain slang(cough terminology) between the horticultirist groups and scientific ( or so called scientific ) groups but language is language and definition is definition and when these groups' words' meanings drift from the original meaning of the word so much they might as well create a new word and call it Ajskdnjfdsk rather than cultivar.

Cheers,
l33t

Propagation in technical terms means propagated via cuttings, as is the obvious meaning in the definition you quoted.

Sure, seeds are also a means of plant propagation, but because the definition is about Cultivars, it is understood as cuttings and even in vitro propagation techniques, like it is done for tobacco cultivars, or strawberries.

If you carefully re-read the defintion you pasted of Cultivar, it is pretty obvious they are talking about "asexual propagation" since these are plants Selected for desireable traits; obviously you can't do that with seeds as you know, variations from parents to offspring is riddled with mutations etc... you can only assure maintaining those desireable traits via cuttings, and hence your definition pretty much supports exactly what Sam is saying in the OP.