STOP THE KUSH CRAZE

[kanehbosm]

Not to say that today's weed is worse than around 2000, but the truth is nobody is bringing anything new to the table, and that's why people long for the original. Why should I grow one of the blueberry x c99 crosses when I don't know the parents? Wouldn't it be smarter to get the originals and make your own cross? C99 is everywhere now, but you can't trust it unless you know the lineage, so everyone claims to have Bros Grim, and there is 0 way to prove it. Blues99, Magenta99, bluecheese.. it just gets old seeing the same names weve seen for 10 years, especially people breeding SFV OG x bubba and thinking they are an innovator. congrats, you crossed two legendary strains that have been industrialized and mass produced like Budweiser!! Thats not only unoriginal, but uninspired and unproductive. Props to companies like mandala who have abstract names which don't claim to be the end all strain like diesel, kush, chem, etc.. We are at the mercy of the breeders and the honesty of their descriptions until public opinion weighs in. I don't like the direction most breeders have taken so I take it upon myself to bring new genes into the garden, either through purposefully bought schwag bagseed or trades with friends. While my garden was full with strictly c99 BB a11 ssh and swt 5-10 years ago, they now have human names and cant trace anything back to the originals. It's good to find a winner and know that it wouldn't have happened without your involvement.

 

[chefboy6969]

Haven't been a member at a forum since FBI took Canada, but I've been lurking here for 2+months getting a feel for the community. I know my opinion carries little weight as of now, but i appreciate about 75% of the opinions in this community, which is surprising for the internet.

I actually hopped on the forum tonight to make my first post and start a discussion about the innovation in today's genes. Companies like ACE are the role models when it comes to what I want in a seed company, but there aren't many like them. I seem to find better plants in random crosses than in all the clones crossed back to some male thats been mixed with every strain in the industry for 10 years. There is nothing special about a good blueberry pheno anymore, and I think we take it for granted.

It's the breeder's job to put out the effort to find the next DJS blueberry, DTC99, flo, a11-genius, whatever you like the most. The industry(sadly, we must recognize it is one now) is indeed flooded with old genes, and it isn't benefiting anybody. I could tolerate it in silence if it really wasn't hurting the market as a whole, but it undeniably does. So if DJS, Rez, Reeferman, Shanti, BOG, etc just got complacent with the genes they were given we would still have the same market today? Bullshit. It's because BOG had the determination to keep crossing Serious Bubblegum that we got his versions. He didn't have to hunt down landraces, he just took 2 plants that existed and made em fuck. DJS probably couldn't have designed a better blueberry than what he discovered naturally. And how many great shared or private strains are probably accidental pollinations? The species did fine before we were pulling the strings behind closed doors.. Breeders aren't engineers, they do more observatory science. Nobody knew what they were making before they grew it out and tried it. It takes patience and/or luck to find the truly great ones.

OP is correct, some of these posts are strictly hate, but the poll is definitely biased(and I might love sativas more than OP). My message is similar to OP's but I word my feelings very carefully, so I'd say I'm more disappointed than angry or any other emotion, but yes I do also feel like the culture/community is not doing their job and in turn will pay for it in the long run. Gene diversity will survive through the current clone-dominated situation, but it definitely isn't as thriving as the plant we all love.

Ill piggy back on TH's above statement with a quote from the above article...

"Well, many growers judge “sativaness” or “indicaness” by different variables. A plant can have a short stature, but if it’s leaves are thin like a sativa and it has a relatively clear-headed high, the grower may say it’s a sativa, when it’s probably much closer to the center of the spectrum than a true sativa. No one variable is an absolute measurement of sativa vs. indica, but flowering time is a very telling sign and it’s the variable that I use more than any other to determine “sativaness”. Flowering time also happens to be the primary variable that caused many sativas to get selected out of the population in the first place, so it’s a good starting point to look at what a sativa really is. Truly pure, native sativa varieties flower for 12 to 16 weeks – double the flowering time of indicas. As far as I’m concerned, if it doesn’t take at least 10 weeks to flower, it isn’t deserving of the title “sativa”. I love Sour Diesel as much as the next person, but a 9 week flowering time means that it’s really just a sativa-predominant hybrid. Amnesia Haze takes 12 – 14 weeks – that’s a Sativa. NL5 x Haze is a 12 week strain with a high so clear and racy, it was dubbed “speed weed” after winning one of the first Cannabis Cups. That’s a Sativa."

And I'll repost this part for emphasis

"I love Sour Diesel as much as the next person, but a 9 week flowering time means that it’s really just a sativa-predominant hybrid. Amnesia Haze takes 12 – 14 weeks – that’s a Sativa. NL5 x Haze is a 12 week strain with a high so clear and racy, it was dubbed “speed weed” after winning one of the first Cannabis Cups. That’s a Sativa."

I couldn't disagree more with anything on the subject. What if a strain carries all the "misleading" traits of sativas, but has a 60 day flower? Oh yea, and it has no ceiling and the high is so mind expanding you forget your way out of your own neighborhood but wouldn't be caught dead locked on a couch?

The problem when characterizing strains is not knowing your audience. If it's just the smoker, then calyx ratio, internode patterns, vigor, and structure have absolutely no impact on whether he considers a strain sativa or indica. On the other side of the spectrum we have breeders and those of breeder mentality. Breeders never paint anything with a broad brush, just like a good artist, musician, or soldier. Everything is in the details, because Kali Mist, c99, or AK47 don't mean shit to me unless I know it's lineage and the grow it came from. When I had to buy my weed cus of youth, the one way to piss me off was to give me some common name not knowing it didn't share one characteristic of the strain.

I encourage all those with permitting situations to have a breeding session someday with all of their favorite ladies. Don't do it selectively, just take some males, good and bad phenos, with pollen and let the fan blow it over your ladies. Everything will be random, and you can personally sue me if you grow them all out and don't find atleast one you like as much or more, and its new and its all yours. Better yet, send me the seeds if you don't want them and I'll find something for myself. I love mutants fyi

Very well said, you actually put into words what I meant...I was quite high on "kush" lol when i created this thread...BUT i agree 100% with you and have found this post extremely beneficial...

peace
Chefboy

 

[chefboy6969]

after reading the responses in this thread and some others..I see that people are starting to want more variety...as all human do..it's inevitable..so that being said..I see that in 2 years( i hope) this kush thing will go away..What i think will happen is the customers, will say to their dealers..do you have anything else other than KUSH?

and the growers will start to grow other varieties but until then things will stay the same..but i do see the market changing

it's obvious from this thread

it's funny lots of people are afraid to speak up..I am not

peace
Chefboy

 

[siftedunity]

its like every other business in the world. if there isnt a demand for kush, noone will grow kush. when people are bored, something else will take its place.

 

[mack 10]

I think a lot of these pre 98 reference's are because the law changed in Holland at that time banning indoor seed production. At the time(before 98) they where running huge 10,000- 40,000 ft sq greenhouses with selections of around 10,000 + plants. Those where the netherlands golden years for growing.
mack.

 

[Hammerhead]

I always have a few diferant strains to pick from. I have alwys had multi strain grows. Not once have I had just a single strain going.. I have a nice mix of the strains I like.... I get a good indication of what people like by what they get..

 

[Lemon Larry]

?

 

[chefboy6969]

this will be my last rant...in this thread LOL

I just hope that in a few years all you Kush crusaders and GS Cookies lovers, realize that there are other strains out there to be discovered. One strain is not the answer, that's obvious..and VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF LIFE...so I just hope that the strains that people are not into now...the Jack Herrer's, the Haze hybrid's and and the some of the old school tastes come back..and soon...When I hear on these boards that people have never smoked a Haze or tried Jack Herrer or people don't know what Kali Mist is or people only have heard of Sour D and OG Kush...I just hope that changes...

GOOD LUCK ALL

peace
Chefboy

 

[S2B]

this will be my last rant...in this thread LOL

I just hope that in a few years all you Kush crusaders and GS Cookies lovers, realize that there are other strains out there to be discovered.

I feel ya on the kush but GS cookies is new and its even better than the hype around it.

GS Cookies is proof of your argument...

"there are new strains out there to be discovered"...amen!

 

[kamyo]

I wasn't around when Skunk was the big thing, but I'm willing to bet that the kush stuff we're seeing is more like that than any haze, "dro," or anything else we've seen. I think that if the same community existed back in the early 90s (clones, dispensaries, etc.), there would be just as many "skunk" varieties being thrown around. The average pot smoker has a limited knowledge of pot growing and, more specifically, genetics. Most people will go by what their dealer tells them. Even then, the average smoker isn't likely to go around saying "that Panama Deep Chunk is the bomb," but it is much easier for them to proclaim their love for kush. It's a catchy name, and requires little effort to say.

The "craze" we see is almost 100% driven by the consumer market, and we need to remember that most of those people don't really understand pot. Is it great weed? It would appear that is is. Is Skunk great weed? Sure. I don't know why there needs to be a million cuts of og floating around, but it apparently really shines through in crosses, so go for it.

I don't think the problem is with the pot and its effects. I think the problem is with the consumers and their understanding of pot. They want kush. Imagine how champagne snobs feel when there's "champagne" coming from all over the world, and not just the region it was named after. Same for kush. I'm honestly tired of it, but to each his own.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[teemu shalanie]

I dream of a day where it legal and you will be able to buy cannabis strains from around the world just like wines,....but until then I keep hunting for my favorite strains, good luck to everyone in their quest for the holy grail

TS

 

[Benjamin Check]

East coast-ish over here.

Don't hear much about Kush over here, but I don't hang around with "dealers" and idiots who just like saying buzz names.


We call it what it is and much of what is "hot" or desired here locally is not what the hype is out west although the few I know growing Bubba (pre-98) don't do it because its "kush", they grow it because its great cannabis.


I get what the OP is saying, and there will always be buzz words which flood the industry..maybe somewhat limiting the variety (type of high) of those ignorant, but if real KUSH genetics are what is hot and selling, then its because..that is what people are wanting. Otherwise the markets would reject and demand/price would go down in favor of the "non cash crop" varieties. The market sets the demand.. not the growers in most instances.

..with the exception of export folks, etc growing whatever the hell they can make the most from and send east to amaze those ignorant to good weed...and in that case...who cares. It doesn't effect us whatsoever. You can call your local whatever you want around here.. but if it's not quality it doesn't matter what it's called. Sure.. the CA outdoor "blue" whatever or "kush" that gets bought up and enjoyed, but why would I care?



I just don't understand why it matters?

All of my friends "hype" Budweiser. I choose to partake in another variety because I prefer the way it effects vs. their mainstream piss water.


It's ok to drink your glass of wine while all of the kids drink their liquor... even if their intention is to get shit faced while you maintain an enjoyable buzz. If the masses are content with smoking their "kush" then who are we to try to stop it....so long as it doesnt stop me drinking all of my less popular "microbrews".




for what its worth - the "day-ender" for my girlfriend keeps me up, productive and thinking for hours.

It matters because the consumer has no idea what they are getting. Is it kush? Who the hell knows? That's why I made the observation and statement. You can't even answer the question posed by the OP if you have no ides if what you are getting is indeed a kush variety. That is the problem on the east coast. I know the members who grow on this side know their stuff, and if they are close enough to a source yes. But for the average mofo buying a pound or less, unless you see the plant come out of the seed pack, I would retain a high level of skepticism on the strain name. Its still some fire and worth the price, but WHAT IS IT......? That's all I was saying.

 

[ECtraveler]

But for the average mofo buying a pound or less, unless you see the plant come out of the seed pack, I would retain a high level of skepticism on the strain name. Its still some fire and worth the price, but WHAT IS IT......? That's all I was saying.

And all others are saying is it's always been that way. It's the nature of illegal commodities.

 

[indicadom]

Well chef after reading some of your post in this thread I have a hard time taking you seriously. I think you just made a thread to bash things you have minimal experience with.

I've run more strains then I can ever keep track of, it goes far beyond saying indica's yield great and sativa's yield poorly, this would be an inexperienced point of view.

OG kushes arent even kushes, and there is no craze over hindu's lol.

No, that isn't an inexperienced view. I don't think you're including flowering time in your calculation of yield. Indica will always yield more, always, always...always. I could seriously pull two crops with the time it takes some sativas to finish.

 

[indicadom]

It matters because the consumer has no idea what they are getting. Is it kush? Who the hell knows? That's why I made the observation and statement. You can't even answer the question posed by the OP if you have no ides if what you are getting is indeed a kush variety. That is the problem on the east coast. I know the members who grow on this side know their stuff, and if they are close enough to a source yes. But for the average mofo buying a pound or less, unless you see the plant come out of the seed pack, I would retain a high level of skepticism on the strain name. Its still some fire and worth the price, but WHAT IS IT......? That's all I was saying.

This is exactly how I feel, you smoke something but have no idea what the actual genetics are, or where it came from. I mean look at all the breeders even, where is their documentation? How many plants did you run? Where are your documented grows? Your charts? Your numbers? Your measurements? Where are the numbers? Where is the evidence? Where is the log? I am tired of just having to go by word of mouth. I want a breeder to show me a video of him growing out 10,000 of his own seeds and showing their uniformity.

 

[clemNtine]

here is my 2 cents.. the kush craze is simple to me really everyone speaks about low yielding high yielding etc how about flower time? if you look at expert growers IMO sublbc stands above just about everyone the idea of getting 6 harvest per year per flower room 56-60days repeat .. shorter,flower, better bag appeal, leaf to catalist ratio (meat on the bone is what we call it) shitter bag appeal = you missing out on money all over the place.. HAVING a proper nursery culling out along the way of veg.. so your right SFVOG runs the planet right now.. if Europe wants to lag behind so be it.. cali is the megacenter for the movement the free will to have open trade and competitive rivals right next door to you has only increased gentics and the foundation of them... my opinion is grow whatever makes you happy.. what makes me happy is getting the highest bag appeal , smell , smoke , and yield in the fastest amount of time .. if you grow for profit which i would assume most people are then give people what they want ..also ALOT of kush have more constant nugs golf ball ish from top to bottom with much less bottom leaf with no dominate colas for the most part which is attractive to me

 

[vStagger Leev]

There are a few valid points in this thread..... other than that, it sucks balls. Arguing over "kush"... :

 

[indicadom]

There are a few valid points in this thread..... other than that, it sucks balls. Arguing over "kush"... :

You act as if all topics aren't debated endlessly in the human race. I mean honestly, what do you think we're supposed to do with our time besides discuss events related to our interests?

 

[vStagger Leev]

You act as if all topics aren't debated endlessly in the human race. I mean honestly, what do you think we're supposed to do with our time besides discuss events related to our interests?

Get a job?? Find a hobby? This thread could have gone somewhere, but it didnt, it just ended up in complaining and bickering. No offense to Chefboy at all! SL

 

[vStagger Leev]

No, that isn't an inexperienced view. I don't think you're including flowering time in your calculation of yield. Indica will always yield more, always, always...always. I could seriously pull two crops with the time it takes some sativas to finish.

Have you ever grown sativa's or sativa dom hybrids?? You need a shorter veg time, thus making up for the longer flowering times, and you can pull massive yields. Casey Jones for example. 9 week flower, only needs a 3 week veg to yield welllllllll over 1/2lb per plant Indicas will ALWAYS yield more than sativa?! Joke of the year. Much love SL





Not trying to insight a riot, or step on your toes indicadom... just saying your point about indica's yielding better than sativas in invalid.