Shooting for 135 grams again with the 135 watt led and coco

[Dready_jake]

Ya I shower pre garden, but mostly glove up so I don't stick to everything afterwards like peter Parker in the first day of becoming spiderman. Lol

I had a decent day of fly fishing, couple bites no bags. Got sunburnt tho!Any way let's get back on track.

Dion can you link or tell us More about that light?
Its pretty much the exact same light and ballast setup imma b running and a somewhat similar fan setup, depending on how to wire the fans, and build the frame.

I'm drawing things up and writing down a legitimate part/price list including websites!
is there a place that'd have these in CO?.

This shit is funner than I'dve thought. As soon as I save $900 smackers this things getting bought/built!

 

[CoCoSativas]

I make sure im clean before going near them. Change into something clean if im in street clothes.

Theses a mod here. Fozee. He has a lab coat and a whole getup its legit. I admire his dedication to cleanliness. Lol i said to him i couldnt do the lab coat tho. On me it would be freaky. Doubt i could fit a normal one over my shoulders anyway.

Planning a led is fun. Building will be dope.

 

[Dready_jake]

Yeah. My ideal clothes for the garden are scrubs. But I typically just wear normal fresh, post shower clothes.

I'm now in the process of choosing my heatsinks and fans. Decisions,decisions lol for the future of course

 

[Dion]

Sorry I missed those. But that's very similar to what I have planned. How do I build that frame tho? I'm thinking very similar, but a complete heat sink across each set of cobs. The picture you showed would probably be cheaper for each heatsink and fan comparatively?

Anyway the definitive, written down numbers are:
12 cxb3070 3000k
3hlg185c1400a

I kinda like that design plus I could probably more easily fond them locally if I wanted?

Thanks again guys, especially you Dion!

the designn i showed will be lighter/cheaper/better colling than a single heatsink panel with all cobs mounted to it- this is ur first diy panel- stick with the tried and true arctic coolers

the frame seems simple enough- just get some metal lenths and bolt that bitch up- you coudl even use u chanels or whatever ur local hardware store has- i dunno what its all called in ur neck of the woods

the cheapest prices will be online- heatsinsk u might find locally cheaper though


btw cxb3070 AB bin 3000k

Also thanks Dion because I think this or something similar will be my new design.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=61627&pictureid=1461263
I'm thinking 4bars of 3 cobs.but might do something similar to that.

How do I wire the fans in tho? If they're on the LEDs circuit they'll pull a little energy away from the cob right? That's the only thing that confuses Menon that design

4 of 3 is prb better- but seen as each driver can run 4 cobs it was done this way- in reality because each cob is on its own heatsink you can space them as you see fit

the fans are wired off thier own driver( dif voltage and current requirments than the cobs) most use a cell phone charger or you can get one that has adjustable voltage(which i use) so you can turn ur fans up/down as needed(fans run harder at higher volts) check out the pc fan thread in micro growsits super simple dont worry

Ya all in all my light will draw about 600 watts not including the fan/fans.
It will cost as of my latest count without bits and pieces like paste:
$460 for 12 cobs
$24 for cob holders
$210 for drivers
Plus heatsinks, fans, wires
My estimate is $800-$900 for a TRUE 600+ watt light that I put together myself. (Aka a 1200 watt spyder, or anything else lol)
I'm so excited about it. I was about to spend $800-$850 on a htg 810 waTt light because I was afraid if the giant task of a diy build of an led light. That woulda been ~450-550 true watts of a slightly lessor spectrum.

So this will be my "1k-killer" lol. If I can still get a gram per watt,(idk I might a forgot how lol jk)
Then that will be at least 500-600 grams. Over a pound!

Which is the minimum a good grower would get out of a1k HPS. So 1ks, killed! Lol

Plus I love diy projects. Just check out my new Rez! This project is better tho.

$120 for heatsinks(cpu coolers with fans atttached)
standard tried and true
http://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/alpine-11-plus.html

the big brother
http://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/alpine-20-plus-co.html
total overkill
hopefully it will redirect to your local site

u can buy them cheaper at neweg or ebay or whatever or locally

if u want to just build one rail to start with( 1 driver 4 chips 4 heatsinks)

get ur feet wet and build more as you save more- u can use them as a supliment or a veg for now

but ur trnt is tiny- 4 of those cxb3070s will kil lit


price compare

also just read the 1st page of this thread sorry i missed it you were asking about buying an led?

basically i wouldnt recomend any premade fixture because they r stupid expensive to the point of not being worth the switch:
for leds to be "worth it" imo you really have to be getting more light per w and match that to the cost of electricity ie return on investment in a reasonable time frame- consider how quickly this tech is developing - in 3 years the light you buy today wil not be as awesome compared to whats out there in the future so if the electricity savings dont pay for themselves within 2 years fuck it
2nd the best chips only make it to the pioneer production lights a few years after the are invented= this years newest most awesome overpriced LED growlight is actually using tech that is 2 or more years old-if it doesnt pay for itself within a short time frame you will end up with tech from 5 years ago- wasnt the point to save money on lecky?

so in these bigger situations id almost advise against led unless you know why u need them? in smaller situations they destroy HPS- consider the effieciency of 70-250w hps- 100 or less L per W- Leds can get 140L per watt easy with no minimal size=awesome
plus heat is a huge consideration in the smaller spaces

but the 600-1000 w are getting about 120L per w- so 140l per w is not such a drastic improvement hence they better pay for themselves quickly and they do if you build them smart PLUS in this size the use of AC can be totally avoided ( as in the case of coco's super fixture{coming soon} using a multi panel set up covering the entire space then evacuation air off the top will give extreem cooling to the lights, drop the tent temp by 5c while not needing any additional ventilation- in fact he may need to dim his fan down even(saving more power) because the leds dont throw off heat lke HPS

the cheaper(affordable) chinese panels dont achieve better efficiency than HPS anyway so not worth it- plus they break all the time because manufacturers skimp on cooling( reducing efficiency further) and the spectrum is a gamble- maybe it grows plants maybe it kills plants?invest and then you will know
the same goes for rebranded/ pretty much every growlight on the market

even the surexi chips i do like are indeed not what i advise for peeps these days-they will always have a place in my garden because they have great penetration and photosynthetic efficiency

for a 2x2 or smaller im buying a marsII and replacing the fans
for bigger im using an LEC or CmH or HPS unless im building an LED-which is what you shoudl do

alot of ppl get leery of playing with electricity but its all dc power and its all pretty simple- ie putting batteries in a remote- if you do it wrong it just doesnt turn on- no biggie

thermal management is the hardest part thats why i advise using tried and true pc coolers

im not one of those LEDs rock HPS suck guys at all- i try to give realistic advise to ppl
if your space is 2x2 or less and you dont DIY an led you dont get points from me(perhaps too strong sorry)
if its bigger there is no reason to bash HPS users- depending on lecky costs it could be financially impractical to consider leds

in a nut shell- build dont buy- but ask yourself why before you do- have a concrete and legitimate reason to go led
a swat analysis comes to mind lol

 

[Dready_jake]

the designn i showed will be lighter/cheaper/better colling than a single heatsink panel with all cobs mounted to it- this is ur first diy panel- stick with the tried and true arctic coolers

the frame seems simple enough- just get some metal lenths and bolt that bitch up- you coudl even use u chanels or whatever ur local hardware store has- i dunno what its all called in ur neck of the woods

the cheapest prices will be online- heatsinsk u might find locally cheaper though


btw cxb3070 AB bin 3000k

yes, thank you that is now my new design. oh and yes i think ill be able to get the frame made out of some L brackets or whatever homedepot has. Ive beuilt everything in my room EXCEPT the light. that will change soon enough

4 of 3 is prb better- but seen as each driver can run 4 cobs it was done this way- in reality because each cob is on its own heatsink you can space them as you see fit

the fans are wired off thier own driver( dif voltage and current requirments than the cobs) most use a cell phone charger or you can get one that has adjustable voltage(which i use) so you can turn ur fans up/down as needed(fans run harder at higher volts) check out the pc fan thread in micro growsits super simple dont worry

yeah Im pretty confident about the fans now I might need help with the wiring as i still dont have a firm grasp on that but its still a little ways off

$120 for heatsinks(cpu coolers with fans atttached)
standard tried and true
http://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/alpine-11-plus.html

the big brother
http://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/alpine-20-plus-co.html
total overkill
hopefully it will redirect to your local site

u can buy them cheaper at neweg or ebay or whatever or locally

Thanks, that was the final piece of the puzzle as far as deciding on electrical hardware

if u want to just build one rail to start with( 1 driver 4 chips 4 heatsinks)

get ur feet wet and build more as you save more- u can use them as a supliment or a veg for now

but ur trnt is tiny- 4 of those cxb3070s will kil lit

Oh my ONE tent is three by three. the other tent is 4x4. but the led is small so its in the smaller tent.
but Not a bad idea, i do like the idea of putting 4 together and adding on in time, but ive got veg lights out the yinyang. i only have 90 true flower watts. so even if i did do just 4 thatd be 150 so i can start flowering more. so this still might be done in pieces like you recommend, id just prefer all at once since im saving up for it already anyway lol. plus if i buy over 10 chips i save a little lol.

price compare
View Image

also just read the 1st page of this thread sorry i missed it you were asking about buying an led?

basically i wouldnt recomend any premade fixture because they r stupid expensive to the point of not being worth the switch:
for leds to be "worth it" imo you really have to be getting more light per w and match that to the cost of electricity ie return on investment in a reasonable time frame- consider how quickly this tech is developing - in 3 years the light you buy today wil not be as awesome compared to whats out there in the future so if the electricity savings dont pay for themselves within 2 years fuck it
2nd the best chips only make it to the pioneer production lights a few years after the are invented= this years newest most awesome overpriced LED growlight is actually using tech that is 2 or more years old-if it doesnt pay for itself within a short time frame you will end up with tech from 5 years ago- wasnt the point to save money on lecky?

Nope! i stopped thinking about buying because the light i was thinking about would be a true 500ish watts for $850 and i can build a better light for the same. investement diverted. also everything here is solid fact lol

so in these bigger situations id almost advise against led unless you know why u need them? in smaller situations they destroy HPS- consider the effieciency of 70-250w hps- 100 or less L per W- Leds can get 140L per watt easy with no minimal size=awesome
plus heat is a huge consideration in the smaller spaces

but the 600-1000 w are getting about 120L per w- so 140l per w is not such a drastic improvement hence they better pay for themselves quickly and they do if you build them smart PLUS in this size the use of AC can be totally avoided ( as in the case of coco's super fixture{coming soon} using a multi panel set up covering the entire space then evacuation air off the top will give extreem cooling to the lights, drop the tent temp by 5c while not needing any additional ventilation- in fact he may need to dim his fan down even(saving more power) because the leds dont throw off heat lke HPS

the cheaper(affordable) chinese panels dont achieve better efficiency than HPS anyway so not worth it- plus they break all the time because manufacturers skimp on cooling( reducing efficiency further) and the spectrum is a gamble- maybe it grows plants maybe it kills plants?invest and then you will know
the same goes for rebranded/ pretty much every growlight on the market

even the surexi chips i do like are indeed not what i advise for peeps these days-they will always have a place in my garden because they have great penetration and photosynthetic efficiency

for a 2x2 or smaller im buying a marsII and replacing the fans
for bigger im using an LEC or CmH or HPS unless im building an LED-which is what you shoudl do

alot of ppl get leery of playing with electricity but its all dc power and its all pretty simple- ie putting batteries in a remote- if you do it wrong it just doesnt turn on- no biggie

thermal management is the hardest part thats why i advise using tried and true pc coolers

im not one of those LEDs rock HPS suck guys at all- i try to give realistic advise to ppl
if your space is 2x2 or less and you dont DIY an led you dont get points from me(perhaps too strong sorry)
if its bigger there is no reason to bash HPS users- depending on lecky costs it could be financially impractical to consider leds

this section.... I actually used to completely agree. I was just like you in the hps has its place ideal. BUT when you take into consideration the unnecessarily HIGH yellow output, the heat hps is producing, and now lumens per watt are comparable if not better than hps because there is no wasted anergy on extra yellow and heat, not to mention less hvac. hell you can seal up if you waant to and save even more on hvac.

So that brings be to the large scale point. "hps makes more sense in an industrial setting"<-general consensus.
BUT if you look into the spyder vs led comparison, it brings up a few good points. they are using the advertised number for the spyder so they compared an equivalent number of hps watts vs led watts. BUT they didnt know that spyders 1200 runs at 50-60% power for efficiency just like the rest of us, so its like around 700 true watts. so the numbers compared were that of 1000 watt of hps's and 1200 watts led's and the led still blew the hps away even overestimated like they were. If they had the draw watt instead of chip watts it wouldn't even be a competition anymore!

Here is the video i was talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ert3fmYQlk
And here is the precursor to that yield video

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...uvkVqjfQU4Px2M0oA&sig2=S7om48Q_t5rT0qIk_NG_Gg

in a nut shell- build dont buy- but ask yourself why before you do- have a concrete and legitimate reason to go led
a swat analysis comes to mind lol

i agree whats a swat analysis?

thanks for everything dion. the lights almost finished being designed. now i just have to save up.

 

[Dion]

the hps thing- you dont have to agree but...anyway

sorry shoudl have said swot analysis

strengths weaknesses opertunities threats

just kidding

 

[Dready_jake]

that math all seemed legit to me.. but was that enough hvac to deal with cooling of the hps? still seemed like it might have needed some ac but idk for sure... never ran a 600 especially in any kind of small space. all my hps experience is 1000 watters in industrial rooms.
the not cooling of the room is where the true led savings come in. not to mention i thoroughly feel leds wattage equivelent when done right out perfrorms hps in a gpw scenario. paying a considerable amount of each lights costs imo.
whyd you pull all that?

its still a close call but it wont be for long it what im saying. its a really close contest and i dont see hps improving in leaps and bounds like led tech is. next year well have a chip that replaces a 1000 watt all on its own lol.(purely speculation and kinda joking)

 

[Kweku Ananse]

woah... i am WAY behind...

 

[CoCoSativas]

I have several reasons for wanting to go led.

First is heat. Hps is too much heat, extra hvac, noise, hassle, fire hazzard...

Dj brings up another point. Hps wastes energy by making light the plant dosent use as efficiently. This is a issue for me. So hps turns 60 % of its energy into heat. So 400 watts of a 1k is actually light. Fuck right! Then look at the spectrum. So much wasted energy.

I have used hps for years but see the idea behind led. Power savings is not my concern as powers cheap here. For me its i see the point in matching wattage if im inclined, because my objective is to deliver more light, and better light to the girls.

Wow those sink

 

[Dready_jake]

Pretty much ya. I can get a gpw with a relatively cheap led with a good enough spectrum. Imagine if I had 600 watts of a perfect spectrum. I'd imagine at least a lb off that led, if not 1 and a half. if I were to use the old drug dealing money per light scenario, (I'm strictly medical and don't sell weed)I don't remember but prices were around $1000-$2000 per lb right? Like I said I don't know I only grow for dready so if I get an lb first round everything's paid for.(my mindset, because I'm sitting there with weed that woulda cost me $1800 from a dispo, so one round and its paid in theory.)

I forgot to mention on that flyfishing trip my phone feplboit of my bag landed on a rock and cracked the screen. Son please excuse any typos sometimes I can't see what I'm typing. Lok

 

[Dion]

that math all seemed legit to me.. but was that enough hvac to deal with cooling of the hps? still seemed like it might have needed some ac but idk for sure... never ran a 600 especially in any kind of small space. all my hps experience is 1000 watters in industrial rooms.
the not cooling of the room is where the true led savings come in. not to mention i thoroughly feel leds wattage equivelent when done right out perfrorms hps in a gpw scenario. paying a considerable amount of each lights costs imo.
whyd you pull all that?

its still a close call but it wont be for long it what im saying. its a really close contest and i dont see hps improving in leaps and bounds like led tech is. next year well have a chip that replaces a 1000 watt all on its own lol.(purely speculation and kinda joking)

it took me so long then i realised i should have just done an excel beacuse i needed to compare the bigger set ups to show what i ment then i just deleted it all and decided not to try and prove anything

as far as led effeciency goes while it is true that spectrum does make your lumens more efficient there r so many "best"spectrums i tend to stay away from all the spectrum hype generally and focus more on effeciency in terms of L per system watt eg including cost to cool growspace

 

[Dready_jake]

I understand what you mean but hps (old stadium lighting) is the light of the past and it doesn't have long before cost vs efficiency rules in LEDs favor.2-3 years tops.

If you even look at the original people using hps:stadiums, street lights, coal industry(powerplant repairs), they all used hps, but are now moving to led. Slowly but surely.

The Superbowl before last had hps bulbs that went out do to an elextical issue. Like 15 min later and still dark. The next Superbowl they had led lighting in case the same thing happened.

But all that as side, much respect Dion glad you're here to help.

 

[Grassachusetts7]

I have 3 100 watt Cree xte chips running at 80 percent. 240 watts outperforming my 400hps all day. I had to buy some and see to believe. Also the CXAs work even better!
So this is the real deal...

 

[Dready_jake]

Thanks. I can't wait to build myself grassachusetts!
Welcome to the show.

 

[Dready_jake]

A quick update for the new guests, the audience that's been here and the lurkers.

A quick update for the new guests, the audience that's been here and the lurkers.

Today is day 10 of flower, we've had our first hairs a day or two ago and were transitioning into flower successfully. She got about 390 PPM's of a transition formula at a pH of 5.7. She's doing great but she's still a little pissed about 50%rh.

 

[stevewinthrop]

What wrong with 50 rh?

 

[Dready_jake]

Its way lower than I or my sativa Dom plant would prefer.

↑ This↑ is what I shoot for but being in Colorado is hard to do without sealing up. Its called the VPD chart.

Those values make a plant feel cool and happy so instead of wasting water on transpiration and keeping cool it can focus on growth and its processes

 

[stevewinthrop]

I see, what is the downside of lower humidity in flower though? I strive to keep it at or under 50 percent. According to that chart I should have it at 80 percent in the summer and 70 the rest of the year, but I would get terrible mold problems at those levels. Am I missing out on higher yields or something, or am I just wasting more water.

 

[stevewinthrop]

Also what strain are you growing this round? Didn't see it mentioned earlier

 

[Dready_jake]

Well the values in the chart require a perfect air circulation environment. If you have mold issues then air circulation needs to be improved. If you can't improve the air circulation for whatever reason, space or what have you then its very much safer to run a lower humidity bit stagnant air is the problem not high humidity.(sometimes that includes stagnation air inside Colas so get them waving at you!) But if you have a well designed room and proper air movement(not air exchange-2 different worlds altogether) proper VPD will actually lead to a reduction of molds and mildew, higher yields/explosive growth, happier plants and I'm not sure if it saves water, but the plant can put it into the plant material for growth instead of transpiring it so it can survive.

This chart/technique is about thriving over surviving.
The guys utilizing it proper are getting around 3 grams a watt and no mold or mildews.
(Fun fact there are multiple types of powdery mildew but two main groups; those that prefer low humidity, and those that prefer high humidity. I think spider mites hate high humidity too but idk for sure)

It's a super tangie cross with an unknown father(I.e. super tangie bagseed lol but she's better than her mom so....)