Root Aphids in 2500 plant LEGAL Washington Grow

[GanjaFarmerNW]

Hey guys, so I recently have taken over for a Tier II Cannabis Production Facility here in Washington. Were up to 2500 plants with 3 of 5 rooms built. Unfortunately, I believe I have root aphids. I know this is a repost, but i believe this warrants it own post due to the incredible scale of problem.

So it started as with most, in that we noticed what we thought were fungus gnats flying about the facility. We used foliar and soil-top sprayed Azatrol, Azamax and pure neem oil (all in conjunction with a soap) in rotation to begin battling this problem. It seemed to quell the population. Then today, we noticed high levels of the "gnats" flying about. We disrupted some of the top layer of soil in a pot and the pot literally came alive with creepy crawlies. 100's of thousands of them.

Here is a close up of one the various forms i have found so far:
http://s113.photobucket.com/user/ganjafarmernw/library/

What I could really use help with is a positive ID of Class&Order of this pest.

From there, please weigh in on your opinions for the following management strategy:

1) there is no way we can scrap the flower room. too far in debt.

2) we plan to heavily water all pots with a 6.2mL per gallon H20 of azamax, followed at next watering need by application of Orthene by means of heavy watering, followed at the next watering with an inoculation of Beauveria bassiana (BotaniGard). We also plan to spray azatrol intermitidly to help reduce populations of the flyers.

3) all new planting will have soil ammended with diatomaceous earth at the rate of 1 cup per 3 gallons of soil.



One of our biggest problems is that our flower room is currently entirely overcrowded. They will be spread into our new room, 50-50, in the next few days.



Please hit me with all your ideas guys. Job on the line here

 

[Croptober]

Nematodes will do the job they will find the RA infect and kill them. Some new stuff called method 1 pps supposed to be all organic and will kill any mite or aphid.

 

[growsjoe1]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960
Fungus gnats or winged root aphids?

Check out this thread, ID, symptoms and treatments

EDIT: The above thread is all about root aphids, half measures will get you nowhere, if you do indeed have them this thread is for you. Lady bugs and neem...they will laugh at them. I wish you luck

 

[Jonny Lan]

I have used organic neem oil with great results in the past now I'm fully pest free. Check out my organic 3x3 tent grow I'm in week 4 of flower.
Good luck!!! P.s. if the neem don't work use Azamax its also organic
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=287208&page=4

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

im curious how someone would advance to level of handling this big of a grow without learning the memorizing "the ganja pest prevention handbook" thats a tough one. i would be worried more about subsequent rounds more than this one. you cant kepp growing with those bugs and you wont get rid of them without religious imid + contact killer regimines or a complete shutdown for long enough to sanitize and youll still need diligent treatments ti lthey stop crawling from the cracksin the building. thats a big grow for a group whos not well versed in zero bug tolerance gardening. best of luck. id hit that grow hard as fuck and skip the next round while i made a biological black hole outta that space for a month.
best of luck man the organic methods might get you through til harvest but youll see the affects. if you cant use the chems youre in for a loooooooong battle and an early harvest.
my heart truly goes out to you. next time dont let things other than weed live in your space. i no longer even tolerate fungus gnats, i have bug free room after having had that battle . i learned the hard way. glad it was a much smaller room.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

if you are running that big of a space you need a tissue culture lab if you are going to bringh in plants. you cant just bring in cuttings into a space like that without major quarantine with a scope capable of 250 x and a real high powered scope for fungus bacteria etc with the skills to do cultures etc. you running a high stakes casino bro you need a research team and an entomologist in your ranks. thats some serious shit, i have made similar mistakes in my tiny room but i will never let that happen again, nothing with roots enters my room and it has to come through quarantine first. chems in all forms on your quarantine plants just to make sure . multi action medical grad chems in sprays and drenches in in the first second and third tier of quarantine then take cuts of those and store in the fridge for a couple weeks before cloning them if you cant tissue culture..a flow hood is alot cheaper than five fucked rooms. hire a biology intern.have them train you in tc protocols. i bet some weed enthusiast lab tech would jump at the chance.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

or start over from seed

 

[HunterJ]

Those three pix are of a mite, a gnat and what looks like a beetle. Couldn't tell you Class&Order without better pix and some research but none are the aphids you indicate in thread title.

Two are covered in @growsjoe1 post https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960

The mites could be the kind that parasitise larger insects, very common occurrence.

You've got your work cut out. Do update us whatever happens.

 

[steadydets]

1) there is no way we can scrap the flower room. too far in debt.

im curious how someone would advance to level of handling this big of a grow without learning the memorizing "the ganja pest prevention handbook"

Things are starting to become a bit more clear now.


He probably got in over his head then decided to post a neutral thread on the net so he doesn't freak out his tin foil hat wearing partner.

"Don't put 2500 plants in the thread bro, everyone is watching the net, they'll know!" His friend Dude cautioned.

"Dude, I'll put the word 'Legal' in front of it. See, now were are straight," Bro Replied.

"Genius" They both said together.

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

Sorry to hear about that GanjaFarmer.
Im all itchy just thinking about all the bugs moving under the soil.
I would do a soil drench on all plants. Thats alot to go through. GL

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

first off i must apologize after rereading this im realizing that i misread 2500 plants for 2500 lights. ahahhhahaha big difference. i guess its not as insane to think of a person without a staff biologist doing 5 rooms with 500 plants per rom. 150 lights? still a big grow but its a little less mind boggling. i also skimmed through without looking at the "pests". i think you me be less doomed than i was picturing.before you fill your fog masters with ddt or extra strength rudolphstiener-cide or what ever and setting them on cycle timers, make sure your efforts are targeted correctly. the fungus gnats need to be controlled but they are less of a "burn it all down" type pest than r.a.s. you need to work hard know pests like there is no other way to keep your job. do this before you get them. read the infirmary pages on here like its a crossword puzzle everyday. cross reference what you learn on here on other non cannabis related websites as you learn the usual suspects. make it your mission to know the top 20 most common problems a grower may have so that when (not if) the day comes you cycle through one of them you are prepared. by identifying it early youll do the most effective possible treatment quickly. youll be able to mitigate the damage because you have a baseline knowledge of the pests and pathogens and how to find the info you have half absorbed by reading dai;y about people like you who get pests post and get drowned with good and bad advice. learn how to quickly navigate university extensions websites and govermnet pages for agricultural resource info. that way when you are faced with a crisis you arent reduced to posting on a forum and waiting for morning to get an answer you couldve easily figured out in fifteen minutes of google searches and extension service websites. there are volumes written about identification, management and eradication of most agricultural pests and pathogens. study up bro, you will see most of these before you retire. especially if you are sourcing clones from anywhere but yourself. keep your space tidy and cleanable. dont crowd em so much that you cant treat them and survey for problems. the last thing you want is to discover a corner of the room infested with cyclamen mights on plants youre depending on flipping the next day.if you took this to the infirmary youd get better answers. better yet if you searched the infirmary youd be shocked at how many times your question has been answered over and over. put a chart up on your wall of the pests and thier signs memorize it. learn how to do good efficient research online with out having to resort to this

i commend you for biting of such a big bite. it takes heart, i truly hope it goes well. everyone here was a noob once but there is enough inf on on here to help you handle this like what you are now, a pro.

 

[DeepestCover]

In the past I have dealt with anything flying by covering the soil with about an inch of sand, this prevents the pests from laying more eggs in the dirt or climbing out of it. But there is a risk of over watering and the soil staying too damp.

 

[Coconutz]

OMG!
2500 plants and a picture of a fungus gnat?
If you ever need someone to cleanup the situation - My bro is in the russian mafia and does this shit for a living
LMK!

 

[Morcheeba*]

...1) there is no way we can scrap the flower room. too far in debt...

wow, i hope you get your shit in order and dont send out contaminated products but what would justify shutting down to restart?

when profit trumps safety is when your priorities are not in order.


peace

 

[Granger2]

By all means read the Fungus Gnat or Winged Root Aphid thread in Cannabis Infirmary.

A question or 2. What kind of soil are you in?

Start with a perimeter outside and inside with DE. Maintain this at all times. If it is washed away, replace immediately. DE mixed with soil is a good Silica source, but has little or no effect on insects when it is wet.

Start using Cedarcide PCO Choice as an area spray. I would fog the premises with it. Do this weekly for 3 weeks, then every other week till you start getting good control.

Drench with something as a contact kill such as Pyrethrum. If you go with Orthene/Pyrethrum, per Eclipsefour20, that should do it. This will knock their population way way back.

After that, drench every other week with a combination of OGBioWar Root and Foliar, FULL STRENGTH [20 ml/gal of each]. Spray foliage the first 3 times, and occassionally after that.

After 2 Orthene treatments, you should be able to be organic from there on.

Most of RA reproduction is thru live birth of already pregnant females. Killing the flyers is good though. Yellow sticky traps will eliminate many, but they're most valuable for monitoring.

Often, growers will have both RA's and Fungus Gnats. These measures will stamp out FG's easily and quickly. Probably after a couple of weeks of this, anything you see will only be RA's.

Beneficial Nematodes work really well IF they are fresh and viable. I would not buy them locally. Here is a good source: http://www.buglogical.com/beneficia...-bacteriophora/steinernema-carpocapsae-mixed/
Use overwhelming numbers. Upon arrival, apply immediately. Do not apply until multiple waterings after using chemical insecticides.

If you use an Azadiractin remedy, Azasol is better than Azatrol, Azamax. No phytotoxicity, unlike the other 2. Water soluble. More systemic. A good drench and spray along the way will also repel Spider Mites.

If I think of more, I'll post later. Good luck. -granger

 

[ozza]

Nematodes and Red Spider mite. If you have that much your screwed.

 

[Granger2]

You've got RA's and I would strongly urge you to assume that you'll never be completely rid of them. I would use the measures I outlined intensively thru the next crop. After that, if you're not seeing symptoms, you can probably use these measures less often, while maintaining your DE perimeters, area sprays, OGBioWar drenches. Preventive measures are essential. If your plants start showing symptoms, you'll be set back about a month even if you kill them all immediately. That means real money.

OGBioWar has multiple strains of micro organisms that are insecticidal, including those in Met 52, Botanigard, etc. On my crop, I'm not seeing symptoms or any signs of RA's, using OGBioWar.

Let's talk about drenches. I doubt that it would be practical with 2500 plants, but ideally you would do the first drench as a 30 minute soak. If your plants are in trays or are sitting in dishes, you can fill and refill the dishes and let the plants sit in them till they quit drawing the contents of the dish back up into the medium.

The problem is that the area of the root ball just below the base of the plant is RA Central, and it's very hard to get that part of the root ball wet with your drench. It will get wet if you refill the dishes or trays until they stop absorbing it back up. That's how you know the root ball is completely soaked. If the containers are not sitting in something, I would drench, drench again several times about 15 minutes apart and, hope for the best.

You can win this fight if you stay on top of it. Never think that you've won though. Good luck. -granger

 

[GanjaFarmerNW]

Hey so let me go ahead and give a special thanks to everyone who had something snarky to say, go suck a lemon. I have a four year degree in organic agriculture from washington state university with minors in both horticulture and soil science. I came into this job 5 months after they started, taking over someone who slouched on every aspect of pest management. I am trying to right the ship.

I came here hoping for a positive ID to back my findings. I have all ready read all the posts you guys have mentioned, hince my conclusions on the pests. I would, however, like someone with more experience (with this pest particularly) to weigh in as well. I would also like opinions on the control methods I have mentioned.

Thanks to all those who actually tried to help,

ganjafarmer

 

[GanjaFarmerNW]

My main concern with say defacto that i have RA's is that the image i took of the little orange bug does NOT have the customary black "tailpipes"

I do believe I have fungus gnats, as evident by the different shaped body segments, but then again, some of the others seem very uniform.


If you guys would like a good old fashion scientific read, please check out:
http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/root-aphid-control-article.pdf

the author:
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/directory/Bio.cfm?ID=sgill

 

[GanjaFarmerNW]

I should also add that we only found the crawling version in 4 pots in the entire facility. They have been neem drenched and quarentined. We do have flyers in the facility, something we will be pyrethrin bombing soon.