Since they stopped shipping to u.s 6 weeks or so ago. Try purchasing something on site, you no longer have shipping to u.s as an option. I have emailed them as well to confirm. They refer you to other vendors for u.s. orders.
Revival of the REVIVAL of the ULTIMATE SATIVA THREAD a.k.a R.U.S.T II
- Thread starter PoweredByLove
- Start date
Since they stopped shipping to u.s 6 weeks or so ago. Try purchasing something on site, you no longer have shipping to u.s as an option. I have emailed them as well to confirm. They refer you to other vendors for u.s. orders.
interesting i was not familiar with that graph seems logical ,,or the word accessions ha ,,i always understood hemp was used to describe the plant in pastimes whatever the use so i dont assosiate the word with rope making or low quality etc ime what are called both sativas and indicas today can he junk or great smoke so i pay little mind to it more just descirptive terms alluding to stereotypes ie long thin leaves tall sativas short stocky indicasI wouldn't know about the Kalamata because I haven't found accessions for it, yet. But also Ketama weed is a sativa that produces resin for hash.
View Image
But judging by it I'd say European genetics intermingle a lot (the majority of the overlapping dots are usually hemp cultivars that got exported to other countries, which is why Russia has the widest oval, funnily enough only for non drug cultivars, the Russians are so uninterested in getting high)
the two clusters indicate the genetic distance between drug and non drug cultivars, but it's just a trend as there are many cultivars present in one another's cluster.
PS: By hemp i don't intend to demean the worth of the end product, simply the phenotype (hollow stem, stretching, low THC high CBD or even CBG, resistant to humidity,low bud density, thinner leaves on average, not necessarily dioecious, not necessarily bred for drug purposes) in contrast to "Sativa" (thin leaved drug cultivar) or "Indica" (broad leaved drug cultivar), mind you, hemp could still get you high, see how pissed off the Chinese are about tourists smoking hemp, not so much the Dali, read in the following article:https://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha6211.html
interesting i could see the kalamata i smoked desending from such a union ,,we used to get albanian here in uk i have some seeds from a nice bit somewere but most was mediocre wereas the kalatmata is high quality
he,s Injoying the sun in the garden a autoflowering Male from a cross of Zamal/Meao Thai x Neville's Haze this boy wil be making some seeds with other pure auto sativa lady,s ......some angola roja-red cross apple pie and more
thise seeds come from VanVulpen happy i found autoflowering male so i can work with it for us nordic outdoor growers to get some pure sativa lines that we can grow outdoor
VanVulpen
thise seeds come from VanVulpen happy i found autoflowering male so i can work with it for us nordic outdoor growers to get some pure sativa lines that we can grow outdoor
VanVulpen
La Buena Hierba, I've got a few F2 of those VanVulpen seeds going now too. Nice find. Good luck with those seeds.
VanVulpen WasUp?
VanVulpen WasUp?
cool Randy any picture,s
keep us update on thise F2
only find this male flowering under 24 hours light i putting the rest of the f1 in flowering now for some nice smokes can you tel me more never smoke them ore grow them jet
peace LBH
keep us update on thise F2
only find this male flowering under 24 hours light i putting the rest of the f1 in flowering now for some nice smokes can you tel me more never smoke them ore grow them jet
peace LBH
It's honestly confusing as fuck trying to pin down a decent scientific definition for the phenotypes we observe, which why originally Linnaeus just wanted to use C. Sativa to describe the species and leave variations to the farmers according to crop needed, a bit like we do with Roses and Tulips. Originally Indica meant the inhebriating kind of Cannabis, as described by Lamarck it seems more of a Sativa according to stereotype.
I used to get mad about sativas having wide leaves, thinking they'd been mixed (often they are, but not always). I learned, thanks to the patience of other ICmaggers, that there are indeed rare wide leaf genotypes in "Sativas".
Accession is used to mean a recorded genome or gene or stretch of DNA or specific recorded code in the databases, these have specific codes (accession codes) that allow us to identify the DNA in question. And therefore access (sorry bad pun) the information within.
The graph is from: https://www.researchgate.net/public...idence_for_Speciation_in_Cannabis_Cannabaceae
These guys use indica to indicate (punintended) that the strain/cultivar is a drug variant.
Interesting tidbit: I learned the other day that Japanese Hops has a genome that is much more similar to C. Sativa than normal Hops
CannaRed
Cannabinerd
It's funny you say that. To this day, my grow mentor believes that "indica" doesn't mean from India.
He says it means " indicate". That indica plants indicate their sex with pre flowers way before it starts to flower.
Don't matter what I tell him or show him, that's his belief.
He showed me a bottle of something where it had English and Spanish translation. It was wrote as "indica" Spanish for "indicates".
I just googled what it meant in Latin.
Means "tell". Or from "indicus" - of India
La Buena Hierba
Here is THH pheno
Here is one of the Nevil's Haze Zamal
Here is fermented buds THHZamal, my favorite of F1
The seedlings I have now are only about a month old, or not even. I'll post pics when I put them into flower. Good luck with yours. Peace
They carry the mango flavor of the Zamal very well. He made seeds with two males, Tom Hill Haze and Nevil Haze, pretty easy to tell the phenos apart. Nevil's has slightly wider leaves carry the mango flavor and bigger buds, more pistils. Good smoke, I liked a THH one better for hazy flavor and effect.
Here is THH pheno
Here is one of the Nevil's Haze Zamal
Here is fermented buds THHZamal, my favorite of F1
The seedlings I have now are only about a month old, or not even. I'll post pics when I put them into flower. Good luck with yours. Peace
I got more pictures of them in my albums too if you want to see structure of plants and buds.
Also, many plants show flowers all the time, auto, but don't really go full flower till long night, they still take forever to finish outside.
What I was trying was to start flowering inside under lights and then finish outside when the days were getting shorter, like getting a head start on flowering. The THHZamal were pretty mold and mildew resistant too which helped me take them till November in North Hemisphere. They keep stacking on more and more pistils as long as it's warm and the light is right. Very nice high, real greasy buds great flavors.
Also, many plants show flowers all the time, auto, but don't really go full flower till long night, they still take forever to finish outside.
What I was trying was to start flowering inside under lights and then finish outside when the days were getting shorter, like getting a head start on flowering. The THHZamal were pretty mold and mildew resistant too which helped me take them till November in North Hemisphere. They keep stacking on more and more pistils as long as it's warm and the light is right. Very nice high, real greasy buds great flavors.
yes i think the male is Nevil's Haze Zamal we wil se wen fully flowering how he looks wil show you pictures later on
for now i stil cutting his ...ballss of ..wen he can make seeds
he,s still on flowering now few weeks outdoor
peace LBH
for now i stil cutting his ...ballss of ..wen he can make seeds
he,s still on flowering now few weeks outdoor
peace LBH
hahah funny you say that, for ages I thought it meant "of the indies" SEAsia (when I was younger), but he really meant it as from India (#LamarckNoob)
Last edited:
yes i think the male is Nevil's Haze Zamal we wil se wen fully flowering how he looks wil show you pictures later on
for now i stil cutting his ...ballss of ..wen he can make seeds
he,s still on flowering now few weeks outdoor
peace LBH
Speaking of Zamal, is there anyone nowadays who offers non crossed Zamal seeds anywhere?
Maybe french touch, k1, and others 2 strains....
i think the word hemp was ok for the plant as a breed and clarifying by purpose would be logical example instead of sativa ganja producing or instead of indica hash producing,these are the standard drug types/uses but we know plants wihin these lines dont folow the nametag sativa or indica parameters ,,so what ,,we also know its used for medicine in other areas like himalayas wild polinated sativaindica hashganjafibredfoodmedicine plants ,so what is the value of the name sativa or indica what is the value of trying to clarify connect a plant phenotype with these two names,, im not sure there is any seems like a waste of time so it appears im pro re clasifying lol
ps i prefer a session to accession but i appreciate the education as i did have to look up the meaning to keep up always good to learn
Yep i'm talking about Dutch coffeeshops, but the shops where i go sometimes never saw Albanian on their menu, but what i saw recently was Spanish Amnesia only.
Pity that the hempshops are now illegal in Italy.Politics ruines everything nowadays.See the same in Holland.Big companies have the politicians in their pockets.
_this is my way to attune for my Sativa Nazi behaviour in the past_
_this is my way to attune for my Sativa Nazi behaviour in the past_
ty for your supportive words ^^
I guess classifying is man's oldest job...Adam, anyone?
It helps us reach understanding and therefore agreements, it's useful when navigating reality.
I agree with you it's ike trying to subdivide humans based on who has coeliac disease or not, some have coeliac disease and others don't, but then which ones have coeliac disease from Africa and which ones have it from Europe?Then there's people who are sensitive but don't have coeliac...oh shit, what do we do now? adapt, as always... Does it matterwhat kind of coeliac disease from where you got?
No, as long as we focus on helping people with coeliac disease, what's important is to recognise the disease and help people.
For me it's important to recognise the THCs and hemp people
There is no value to using Indica or Sativa to classify cannabis as a phenotype, it's like racism.
We can blame ourselves for it, our ignorance, when we let stupid people write information on drugs (Pop Icons, instead of Scientists), and have us learn that there is such a thing as Cannabis Sativa and Cannabis Indica; and that one is for rope while the other is for dope.
Truth is: There's a plant that has interesting uses and has adapted, like humans to its environments, no matter where it was taken, the name is Cannabis, or hemp for the anglophones.
The other issue stems from our minds' need for consistency, because our mind hasn't evolved enough to accept how chaotic reality actually is, it protects itself by putting things into nifty little boxes because they're consitent, and consistency is soothing and it makes life easy because we don't have to think twice.
It's the same reason why racism still exists, our minds want the shortcut to explaining reality and often that leads us to draw the wrong conclusions, because we end up in a box that has no point in being there.
The real issue with classifying hemp begun when the US drug courts were asked to reconsider the scheduling of Cannabis in lieu of the dichotomy of the use (they were trying to save the rope industry), someone tried to apply the dichotomy to the species using Lamarckian definitions (it was honorable of some lawyers to try this, but shortsighted). Then the culture chose to apply the stereotypes we consider nowadays to belong to Indica or Sativa depending on Hash/Ganja cultivars.
All this confusion on nomenclature is also "science's fault" because we moved from a Linnaean classification to a Biomolecular one, since now we can "fingerprint" DNA and therefore classify species based on their genetic makeup instead of phenotype, it was bound to cause confusion also because the whole Cannabis genome is confusing! and the Commercial Complex hasn't caught up entirely on their homework, this is causing severe misunderstandings and is only serving the purpose of spreading ignorance through false advertising.
However, when we look at chemotype (Chemical phenotype: the output of chemicals from the plant) the discerning process becomes a bit easier, "Indicas" (drug cultivars that include SatxInd hybrids and further crosses nowadays) share a cannabinoid profile and a genetic marker that is funnily enough "aligned" with the effect that people perceive upon consumption, the notorious Indica stone, also a consistent genetic profile with the Indica is the increased production of wax and chlorophill in the leaves which mark a cold adaptation. In the case of Sativas that abound in the tropics, if I remember correctly, it has to do with the expression of an intermediate protein in the cannabinoid synthesis that help us tell "Sativas" apart from "Indicas", when looking at anonymous samples in the lab. This genetic difference places Ruderalis somewhat in the same category as Hemp for rope Sativas (and yes the autoflowering gene is a predominantly Sativa evolved gene). What is fascinating for us geneticists is seeing how there is a phenotypic adaptation to the climates and a biomolecular evolution of the species (which is drug type sativas stemming from a non drug type hemp sativa and eventually "indicas" developing from drug Sativas), then, along comes Humans to shake things up by forming a symbiotic relationship with it. It's quite entertaining to observe the drama that we put up around this crafty plant.
https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.3732/ajb.91.6.966
Hillig and Mahlberg (2004) used a statistical approach to define chemotaxonomic trends in C. sativa and noticed that most cultivars did not fall within the arbitrary values set by the United Nations on Drugs and Crime. Instead, most cultivars clustered into chemotype I (X>10), chemotype II (0.2<X<10), or chemotype III (X<0.2). The relative cannabinoid levels in C. sativa remain constant from the seedling stage throughout the plant lifecycle (Broséus et al., 2010), making it possible to determine the chemotype at early development stages prior to flowering (Barni-Comparini et al., 1984; Vogelmann et al., 1988).
extract from:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/immunology-and-microbiology/chemotype
To DISCERN without DISCRIMINATING and to navigate all this information without erring or raising misunderstandings due to differing information backgrounds, It's hard, but so is growing "Sativas" 
_this is my way to attune for my Sativa Nazi behaviour in the past_
ty for your supportive words ^^
I guess classifying is man's oldest job...Adam, anyone?
It helps us reach understanding and therefore agreements, it's useful when navigating reality.
I agree with you it's ike trying to subdivide humans based on who has coeliac disease or not, some have coeliac disease and others don't, but then which ones have coeliac disease from Africa and which ones have it from Europe?Then there's people who are sensitive but don't have coeliac...oh shit, what do we do now? adapt, as always... Does it matterwhat kind of coeliac disease from where you got?
No, as long as we focus on helping people with coeliac disease, what's important is to recognise the disease and help people.
For me it's important to recognise the THCs and hemp people
There is no value to using Indica or Sativa to classify cannabis as a phenotype, it's like racism.
We can blame ourselves for it, our ignorance, when we let stupid people write information on drugs (Pop Icons, instead of Scientists), and have us learn that there is such a thing as Cannabis Sativa and Cannabis Indica; and that one is for rope while the other is for dope.
Truth is: There's a plant that has interesting uses and has adapted, like humans to its environments, no matter where it was taken, the name is Cannabis, or hemp for the anglophones.
The other issue stems from our minds' need for consistency, because our mind hasn't evolved enough to accept how chaotic reality actually is, it protects itself by putting things into nifty little boxes because they're consitent, and consistency is soothing and it makes life easy because we don't have to think twice.
It's the same reason why racism still exists, our minds want the shortcut to explaining reality and often that leads us to draw the wrong conclusions, because we end up in a box that has no point in being there.
The real issue with classifying hemp begun when the US drug courts were asked to reconsider the scheduling of Cannabis in lieu of the dichotomy of the use (they were trying to save the rope industry), someone tried to apply the dichotomy to the species using Lamarckian definitions (it was honorable of some lawyers to try this, but shortsighted). Then the culture chose to apply the stereotypes we consider nowadays to belong to Indica or Sativa depending on Hash/Ganja cultivars.
All this confusion on nomenclature is also "science's fault" because we moved from a Linnaean classification to a Biomolecular one, since now we can "fingerprint" DNA and therefore classify species based on their genetic makeup instead of phenotype, it was bound to cause confusion also because the whole Cannabis genome is confusing!
and the Commercial Complex hasn't caught up entirely on their homework, this is causing severe misunderstandings and is only serving the purpose of spreading ignorance through false advertising.However, when we look at chemotype (Chemical phenotype: the output of chemicals from the plant) the discerning process becomes a bit easier, "Indicas" (drug cultivars that include SatxInd hybrids and further crosses nowadays) share a cannabinoid profile and a genetic marker that is funnily enough "aligned" with the effect that people perceive upon consumption, the notorious Indica stone, also a consistent genetic profile with the Indica is the increased production of wax and chlorophill in the leaves which mark a cold adaptation. In the case of Sativas that abound in the tropics, if I remember correctly, it has to do with the expression of an intermediate protein in the cannabinoid synthesis that help us tell "Sativas" apart from "Indicas", when looking at anonymous samples in the lab. This genetic difference places Ruderalis somewhat in the same category as Hemp for rope Sativas (and yes the autoflowering gene is a predominantly Sativa evolved gene). What is fascinating for us geneticists is seeing how there is a phenotypic adaptation to the climates and a biomolecular evolution of the species (which is drug type sativas stemming from a non drug type hemp sativa and eventually "indicas" developing from drug Sativas), then, along comes Humans to shake things up by forming a symbiotic relationship with it. It's quite entertaining to observe the drama that we put up around this crafty plant.
https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.3732/ajb.91.6.966
Hillig and Mahlberg (2004) used a statistical approach to define chemotaxonomic trends in C. sativa and noticed that most cultivars did not fall within the arbitrary values set by the United Nations on Drugs and Crime. Instead, most cultivars clustered into chemotype I (X>10), chemotype II (0.2<X<10), or chemotype III (X<0.2). The relative cannabinoid levels in C. sativa remain constant from the seedling stage throughout the plant lifecycle (Broséus et al., 2010), making it possible to determine the chemotype at early development stages prior to flowering (Barni-Comparini et al., 1984; Vogelmann et al., 1988).
extract from:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/immunology-and-microbiology/chemotype
To DISCERN without DISCRIMINATING and to navigate all this information without erring or raising misunderstandings due to differing information backgrounds, It's hard, but so is growing "Sativas"
I was near Maastriht for some years. Place first had a flood of Albanian and after 2012 it was only Amnesia...I got so fed up with that shit I started buyng the cheap "thai" brick weed for a change. I almost puked when my friends came up to the North to visit with a kg of Amnesia. Sometime it gets into Norway too, that's why I had decided to become a Sativa Nazi, didn't quite work out, belief systems really don't do it for me. So now I just focus on preservation of special characteristics (as useless as it might sound I see the point in keeping something that has adaptet to specific conditions) and crossing strains to see what I can use to treat myself.
Last edited:
ty for your supportive words ^^
I guess classifying is man's oldest job...Adam, anyone?
It helps us reach understanding and therefore agreements, it's useful when navigating reality.
I agree with you it's ike trying to subdivide humans based on who has coeliac disease or not, some have coeliac disease and others don't, but then which ones have coeliac disease from Africa and which ones have it from Europe?Then there's people who are sensitive but don't have coeliac...oh shit, what do we do now? adapt, as always... Does it matterwhat kind of coeliac disease from where you got?
No, as long as we focus on helping people with coeliac disease, what's important is to recognise the disease and help people.
For me it's important to recognise the THCs and hemp people
There is no value to using Indica or Sativa to classify cannabis as a phenotype, it's like racism.
We can blame ourselves for it, our ignorance, when we let stupid people write information on drugs (Pop Icons, instead of Scientists), and have us learn that there is such a thing as Cannabis Sativa and Cannabis Indica; and that one is for rope while the other is for dope.
Truth is: There's a plant that has interesting uses and has adapted, like humans to its environments, no matter where it was taken, the name is Cannabis, or hemp for the anglophones.
The other issue stems from our minds' need for consistency, because our mind hasn't evolved enough to accept how chaotic reality actually is, it protects itself by putting things into nifty little boxes because they're consitent, and consistency is soothing and it makes life easy because we don't have to think twice.
It's the same reason why racism still exists, our minds want the shortcut to explaining reality and often that leads us to draw the wrong conclusions, because we end up in a box that has no point in being there.
The real issue with classifying hemp begun when the US drug courts were asked to reconsider the scheduling of Cannabis in lieu of the dichotomy of the use (they were trying to save the rope industry), someone tried to apply the dichotomy to the species using Lamarckian definitions (it was honorable of some lawyers to try this, but shortsighted). Then the culture chose to apply the stereotypes we consider nowadays to belong to Indica or Sativa depending on Hash/Ganja cultivars.
All this confusion on nomenclature is also "science's fault" because we moved from a Linnaean classification to a Biomolecular one, since now we can "fingerprint" DNA and therefore classify species based on their genetic makeup instead of phenotype, it was bound to cause confusion also because the whole Cannabis genome is confusing!
However, when we look at chemotype (Chemical phenotype: the output of chemicals from the plant) the discerning process becomes a bit easier, "Indicas" (drug cultivars that include SatxInd hybrids and further crosses nowadays) share a cannabinoid profile and a genetic marker that is funnily enough "aligned" with the effect that people perceive upon consumption, the notorious Indica stone, also a consistent genetic profile with the Indica is the increased production of wax and chlorophill in the leaves which mark a cold adaptation. In the case of Sativas that abound in the tropics, if I remember correctly, it has to do with the expression of an intermediate protein in the cannabinoid synthesis that help us tell "Sativas" apart from "Indicas", when looking at anonymous samples in the lab. This genetic difference places Ruderalis somewhat in the same category as Hemp for rope Sativas (and yes the autoflowering gene is a predominantly Sativa evolved gene). What is fascinating for us geneticists is seeing how there is a phenotypic adaptation to the climates and a biomolecular evolution of the species (which is drug type sativas stemming from a non drug type hemp sativa and eventually "indicas" developing from drug Sativas), then, along comes Humans to shake things up by forming a symbiotic relationship with it. It's quite entertaining to observe the drama that we put up around this crafty plant.
https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.3732/ajb.91.6.966
Hillig and Mahlberg (2004) used a statistical approach to define chemotaxonomic trends in C. sativa and noticed that most cultivars did not fall within the arbitrary values set by the United Nations on Drugs and Crime. Instead, most cultivars clustered into chemotype I (X>10), chemotype II (0.2<X<10), or chemotype III (X<0.2). The relative cannabinoid levels in C. sativa remain constant from the seedling stage throughout the plant lifecycle (Broséus et al., 2010), making it possible to determine the chemotype at early development stages prior to flowering (Barni-Comparini et al., 1984; Vogelmann et al., 1988).
extract from:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/immunology-and-microbiology/chemotype
To DISCERN without DISCRIMINATING and to navigate all this information without erring or raising misunderstandings due to differing information backgrounds, It's hard, but so is growing "Sativas"
thanks for the large and informative reply its clear your really into this ,, for sure i understand the need for general clarification of anything it just seems the names sativa and indica are now outdated and for me it did not seem an advancement on knowledge to the old names anyway and seems it has simply become a waste of time which hinders our progress,,interesting about the names coming about through laws and it makes total sense the lawmakers are about money they dont give a hoot about human development or the people understanding the plant better thru clarification they care abut who controls and profits this substance over the people which is obvuisly corrupt so we definatly need to scrap that lol
i think as you also mentioned the dna sequencing will at this time be the path of progresss in understanding the diffrrnces within cannabis hemp etc i mean are we even sure sativa and indica wernt just the names of the fellas dogs and he named the plant after them lol for me its not about blame we all make mistakes corrupt or innocent but its about progress and if our progress is hindered we got a problem, interesting also the autoflower gene seems sativa born as ive foold about with afs and have also seen auto flower traits in apparently pure sativas and when you share a sat dom auto line with someone and they later send you a pure sat line that starts to auto you really end up winding your ass and scratching your watch lol dna testing at that point would be more than useful ,, the stuff you posted on the chemo diffrences is interesting and news to me also and again seems a more sensible way of labelling its not an indica its a waxy leafer lol
"It's the same reason why racism still exists, our minds want the shortcut to explaining reality and often that leads us to draw the wrong conclusions, because we end up in a box that has no point in being there. "
your point here for me is bang on coudlnt of said it better and it highlights childish impatiance or corruption are no friends of human progession /science ,,thanks again for taking the time with your in depth replys theres some food for thought there , for me truth is reality and truth can be proven if we cant prove it we dont yet understand it
