Republicans and marijuana

[SpasticGramps]

but at least constitutional government should be mandatory.

I agree wholeheartedly. I believe their is a reason why the Constitution is not taught in highschool to any real degree.

The very core of it is a threat to the centralized government that exists this day, but that's what this country was founded on. A government that worked for the people.

I do not feel Washington governs with the consent of the people any longer or has for quite some time. They govern despite us.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I might approach the same goal of constitutional governance education from a different angle. I would make study of the Constitution an elective only because the document itself is so divisive. We're still debating aspects of what the Constitution says after two centuries. What I would like to see required in public schools is actual study of civics and governance. How it functions, specifically. When unconstitutional aspects are learned, it should be understood when clear violations occur as opposed to occurances that leave us divided no matter what the consensus, like abortion. Of course that's the conundrum, whether constitutionality is maintained....or not. For clear violations like internment camps and (IMO) the Patriot act, education may only be able point out unconstitutionality as opposed to thwart it. Governance is always going to look for ways to the perceived best outcome in times of crisis whether it meets the test of constitutionality.

For example, it's my opinion that the importance of executive decision to preserve the union was more important than constitutionality. Thank our lucky stars we have more educated scholars to deal with that, I'm just making an example. Rather than eliminate unconstitutionality, which in my eyes is impossible, we could better manage unconstitutionality with a better educated public. Let us all be involved in choosing the least unconstitutional path if you will.

Gramps, you're one of the more educated in this regard and I respect your philosophical rights and don't challenge your knowledge of the facts. IMO, we'll never achieve constitutionality in everyone's eyes as long as we're passionate in our education and philosophy. The more we know, the more there is to consider.

I enjoy these discussions and I'm happy my eyes are open (as much as I'm able to see). When they start to shut, I'll know I'm old and crotchety and I'll probably be screaming at the neighborhood to get outta my yard.

 

[sandawg]

http://minnesotaindependent.com/558...s-drop-2010-push-will-wait-til-pawlentys-gone

Anyone want to guess what party Tim Pawlenty is affiliated with?

Edit: now if I were Republican, after 30 pages of posts, I think I would stop trying to argue that Republicans aren't enemies of MMJ and start asking fellow Republicans why we are taking this position. I would point out that the tide of public opinion is turning and it going to become a political liability to oppose MMJ. I would point out that our opposition is hypocritical and we should support dispensaries even if they are making a profit.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Apparently it is the law enforcement lobby that is the hold up on that bill. At least it sounds like those reporting stated that leo are the ones they have to work on to get the Gov to sign the bill. There is definately more to this story, and is a poor example of "Republicans" being the only nay-sayers on pot legislation.

But it doesn't matter....what you are doing is trying to blame this thing on Republicans, and it all stems from your small town angst, and prejudice of things you don't understand, and not much more. I also suspect a bit of youth in there as well...

Let me ask you, just how friggin far do you have to travel to buy a cut or a sack from a dispensary?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

That's real good....when the other side vetoes legislation, we'll just blame lobbyists.

Just kidding, we'll blame the official that signs their name, vetoing legislation, lol. You see, if Paw hadn't vetoed, legislation wouldn't have been stopped in it's tracks. He's probably proud and we should all give credit where credit is due.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Fist of all, what they do in MN is none of your business, unless you live in MN.
Your state and the Federal Government should be your only concerns.
And were I a Governor, I would definitely consider the ramifications of signing a bill that would conflict with federal law.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Fist(sic) of all, what they do in MN is none of your business, unless you live in MN.
Your state and the Federal Government should be your only concerns.

Well then I guess it's none of your business to comment about LEO lobbyists in MN then, lol. What a rube.

BTW, it's everybody's business. Same way your pathetic senator cut off unemployment checks.....for everybody.

And were I a Governor, I would definitely consider the ramifications of signing a bill that would conflict with federal law.

You seem to have considerable sympathies toward reform opponents. That's not funny. What's hilarious is you deny it's even happening while you're defending it at the same time. And you can't even see the hypocrisy of it.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I wasn't sympathizing with leo, just where did you get that? Oh yeah, I know...you always seem to make shit up as you go.

My senator has the issue spot on. And for you to think his move was pathetic only shows that you are one of the ignorant folks that are dumbing down our society. You leftists have no sense of anything at all really...you are running hog wild led by your fucked up emotions. Common sense escapes you fools.

So, you think we should just keep on spending and spending, without any means of paying for it? You and your progressive liberal pals are ruining us. Fucking idiots.

When Obama speaks, I cut a big nasty fart in his honor. What a disgraceful, know nothing, unqualified example of a worthless poseur he is. And it only serves taht you fucks would vote for somone like that, and for what he ran on...absolutely NOTHING but hot air.
Hope and change...it takes idiots to not realize that both hope and change on their faces are nothing. Hollow nothings, that can be good or bad. Yet, when Obama speaks, folks cry.
Ignorant folks.
But...it's all GW's fault, aint it?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

You're the toy that hits the wall and doesn't stop, just shifts direction a bit and hits something else. And never runs out of batteries.

I wasn't sympathizing with leo, just where did you get that?

I don't care which reform opponents you care to sympathize with, they're all working toward the same goal. So keep on making your petty justifications and we'll just keep reading your sympathetic posts.

My senator has the issue spot on. And for you to think his move was pathetic only shows that you are one of the ignorant folks that are dumbing down our society. You leftists have no sense of anything at all really...you are running hog wild led by your fucked up emotions. Common sense escapes you fools.

So, you think we should just keep on spending and spending, without any means of paying for it? You and your progressive liberal pals are ruining us. Fucking idiots.

When Obama speaks, I cut a big nasty fart in his honor. What a disgraceful, know nothing, unqualified example of a worthless poseur he is. And it only serves taht(sic) you fucks would vote for somone(sic) like that, and for what he ran on...absolutely NOTHING but hot air.
Hope and change...it takes idiots to not realize that both hope and change on their faces are nothing. Hollow nothings, that can be good or bad. Yet, when Obama speaks, folks cry.
Ignorant folks.

I think the toy just exploded. What a total distraction.

BTW, I edited the post to more closely reflect your hypocrisy, something you dodge repeatedly.

 

[sandawg]

You're the toy that hits the wall and doesn't stop, just shifts direction a bit and hits something else. And never runs out of batteries.



I don't care which reform opponents you care to sympathize with, they're all working toward the same goal. So keep on making your petty justifications and we'll just keep reading your sympathetic posts.

I think the toy just exploded. What a total distraction.

BTW, I edited the post to more closely reflect your hypocrisy, something you dodge repeatedly.

Disco, I admire your thoughtfulness and intelligence. It is posters like you that remind me why I am on the "liberal" side of the fence. Hoosier's posts, on the other hand, remind me of my dark days, when I was filled with bitterness and anger and directed that bitterness and anger toward the less fortunate in our society who are easy scapegoats.

I do feel sympathy for conservatives like Hoosier, however, who defend a philosophy they do not completely understand. I have a feeling Hoosier is neither a millionaire nor a radical religious extremist, which means he is likely voting against his own self-interest as many right-wingers do. Deep down I believe they realize this, which may be the true source of the anger. I don't know. I just know that it is indeed Republicans that are the political enemy of MMJ and I really hopes it starts backfiring on these politicians who are ignoring the overwhelming public support of MMJ.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Edit yourself, dipshit.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Disco, I admire your thoughtfulness and intelligence. It is posters like you that remind me why I am on the "liberal" side of the fence. Hoosier's posts, on the other hand, remind me of my dark days, when I was filled with bitterness and anger and directed that bitterness and anger toward the less fortunate in our society who are easy scapegoats.

I do feel sympathy for conservatives like Hoosier, however, who defend a philosophy they do not completely understand. I have a feeling Hoosier is neither a millionaire nor a radical religious extremist, which means he is likely voting against his own self-interest as many right-wingers do. Deep down I believe they realize this, which may be the true source of the anger. I don't know. I just know that it is indeed Republicans that are the political enemy of MMJ and I really hopes it starts backfiring on these politicians who are ignoring the overwhelming public support of MMJ.

The enemy of marijuana is ignorance. Pure and simple.
You can try to blame it all on one particular party, but that is just you being stupid. More of your party's tactics. Be nice if you were smart enough to realize what the whole thing is about, but you want to sit back and blame republicans.
And it is YOU that don't do one fucking thing to help the cause. Nothing.
Did you comment at your town hall meetings? Fuck no you didn't...you run to the internet to post up how Republicans did it all.
Get a grip, Mr in touch with his emotions.
You did absolutely nothing to help the cause, now did you? Go ahead and lie to us and tell us what good you have done.
And tell us what the democrats in your town have done...nothing. Fucking nothing. That's what.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Here's some more distraction

Bush's War on Pot

Forget meth and other hard-core drugs -- the administration would rather waste taxpayer dollars in an all-out assault on marijuana

ROBERT DREYFUSS

America's long-running war on drugs has, literally, gone to pot.

More than two decades after it was launched in response to the spread of crack cocaine -- and in the midst of a brand-new wave of methamphetamine use sweeping the country -- the government crackdown has shifted from hard drugs to marijuana. Pot now accounts for nearly half of drug arrests nationwide -- up from barely a quarter of all busts a decade ago. Spurred by a Supreme Court decision in June affirming the right of federal agents to crack down on medical marijuana,
The Drug Enforcement Administration has launched a series of high-profile raids against pot clinics in California, and police in New York, Memphis and Philadelphia have been waging major offensives against pot smokers that are racking up thousands of arrests.


By almost any measure, however, the war has been as monumental a failure as the invasion of Iraq. All told, the government sinks an estimated $35 billion a year into the War on Drugs. Yet illegal drugs remain cheap and plentiful, and coca cultivation in the Andes -- where the Bush administration has spent $5.4 billion to eradicate cocaine -- rose twenty-nine percent last year. "Drug prices are at an all-time low, drug purity is at an all-time high, and polls show that drugs are more available than ever," says Bill Piper, national affairs director for the Drug Policy Alliance, a drug-reform organization in Washington, D.C. Drug smugglers and South American cocaine growers, he adds, are fast developing new ways to evade U.S. eradication efforts. "All they have to do is double their efforts," he says. "They can adapt more quickly than the government can."


Given the government's failure to halt the flow of drugs, many soldiers who eagerly enlisted in the war are beginning to desert the cause. In March, the archconservative American Enterprise Institute published a report -- titled "Are We Losing the War on Drugs?" -- that concluded "criminal punishment of marijuana use does not appear to be justified." Scores of states and cities, whose jails and courts are bursting at the seams with people serving lengthy sentences for minor drug offenses, are rejecting harsh sentencing laws backed by the White House. And most schools and employers are deciding not to test students and workers for drugs, despite a national testing push by John Walters, the tough-talking drug warrior who became America's "drug czar" in 2001. Even the Pentagon, engaged in fighting real wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, has quietly cut back on its efforts to interdict drug traffickers in the Caribbean and Central America.


"Americans will be disappointed to learn that the War on Drugs is not what they thought it was," says Mitch Earleywine, associate professor of psychology at the University of Southern California. "Many of us grew up supporting this war, thinking it would imprison high-level traffickers of hard drugs and keep cocaine and heroin off the streets. Instead, law enforcement officers devote precious hours on hundreds of thousands of arrests for possession of a little marijuana."


Since taking over as drug czar, Walters has launched an extraordinary effort to depict marijuana as an addictive "gateway" to other, more powerful drugs. "Marijuana use, especially during the teen years, can lead to depression, thoughts of suicide and schizophrenia," he declared in May. Trying to capitalize on fears of terrorism, Walters has linked drugs to terror, running a much-derided series of television ads suggesting that the money marijuana users spend on pot winds up funding terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda.


"For Walters, it's all marijuana, all the time," says Graham Boyd, director of the Drug Law Reform Project of the American Civil Liberties Union. "He is reinforcing the atmosphere that marijuana is the drug we should care about, and that the government will do everything it can, including locking everyone up, if that's what it comes to."


In June, the anti-pot crusade got a boost from the Supreme Court, which ruled that federal authorities can crack down on medical marijuana, even in states where it has been legalized. A few weeks after the ruling, as part of Operation Urban Harvest, scores of federal agents swooped down on pot clubs that supply patients in San Francisco. They raided dozens of homes, businesses and growing areas, seizing 9,300 pot plants and arresting fifteen people on federal drug charges. At one dispensary, the Herbal Relief Center, agents seized computer records, medical files and plants.


"We can't disregard the federal law," said Javier Pena, special agent in charge at the DEA. "The Supreme Court reiterates that we have the power to enforce the federal drug laws -- even if they are not popular. We're going to continue to do that."
Since 1992, according to a recent analysis of federal crime statistics by the Sentencing Project, arrests for marijuana have soared from 300,000 a year to 700,000. The government spends an estimated $4 billion a year arresting and prosecuting marijuana crimes -- more than it spends on treating addiction for all drugs -- and more and more of those busts are for possession rather than dealing. One in four people currently in state prisons for pot offenses are classified as "low-level offenders." In New York, arrests for possession -- which now account for nine of every ten busts -- are up twenty-five-fold during the past decade. In Memphis, marijuana arrests are up nineteenfold, and large spikes have also been recorded in Philadelphia, Las Vegas and Houston.


Walters insists that the surge in arrests is having a "deterrent effect," scaring kids away from smoking pot. Testifying before Congress in February, he reported that the administration has exceeded its goal of reducing teen drug use by ten percent. "Over the past three years," he declared, "there has been a seventeen percent decrease in teenage drug use."
But in reality the numbers for pot use have remained remarkably steady. About a third of all teens and young adults report having smoked pot in the past year, as do one in seven adults over thirty-five. And despite the government's all-out assault on marijuana, there's still plenty to go around. According to the National Drug Intelligence Center, part of the Justice Department, as much as 19,000 tons of pot are still harvested each year in the United States, with more coming from abroad.


To catch more marijuana users, Walters has launched a nationwide effort to persuade schools to conduct drug tests on student athletes -- and even entire student populations. The drug czar has asked Congress for $25 million to support drug testing next year, up from $10 million this year and just $2 million in 2004, and he is leading a series of national summits on student drug testing. The Supreme Court has upheld drug testing of students involved in sports and other extracurricular activities, and the Bush administration believes "extracurricular activity" can be stretched to include any student who parks on campus. "The court did not elaborate on random drug testing of student populations," says Jennifer de Vallance, a spokeswoman for the Office of National Drug Control Policy. "But we think that schools would be on very safe ground to conduct that kind of testing."


Studies have shown, however, that such tests fail to deter students from using drugs. They're also inaccurate: Because hard drugs such as cocaine and crack exit a user's system quickly, most tests manage to detect only marijuana use. "Drug testing is, in effect, marijuana testing, because that is what stays in your system," says Boyd of the ACLU. As a result, fewer than five percent of schools currently conduct drug tests, and many companies are giving up on the practice as well. According to a survey by the American Management Association, only forty-four percent of firms currently screen employees for drugs -- down from sixty-eight percent a decade ago. The administration is also running into widespread opposition over its efforts to force welfare recipients and public-housing residents to pass drug tests in order to qualify for benefits. Michigan, the only state that requires welfare recipients to undergo drug testing, recently suspended its program when a federal court declared such testing illegal.


Even more striking, states are backing away from the tough mandatory-minimum sentencing laws that have put tens of thousands of pot smokers behind bars for years, stretching state budgets to the breaking point. Unlike federal drug hawks, who continue to call for even harsher penalties, more than two dozen states have rolled back or repealed state mandatory minimums. "The federal government continues its love affair with mandatory minimums, but the states are moving in the other direction," says Monica Pratt, spokeswoman for Families Against Mandatory Minimums. "Most people aren't worrying as much about drugs these days. It's just not at the top of their list anymore."


The war on pot diverts money and manpower from fighting far more harmful drugs. While the feds target pot smokers, a burgeoning meth epidemic is swamping rural communities, especially in the West and the Great Plains. Nearly half of state and local law-enforcement agencies identify meth as their greatest drug threat -- compared with only one in eight for marijuana -- and more than 1 million Americans use the highly addictive drug, which is linked to violent crime, explosions and fires at meth labs, severe health problems, and child and family abuse. In 2003, drug agents busted a staggering 10,182 meth labs, and the fight against meth is straining the resources of local police and sheriffs in small towns. But the White House has proposed slashing federal aid for rural narcotics teams by half. "If those cuts go through, they're going to totally wipe us out," says Lt. Steve Dalton, leader of a drug task force in southwest Missouri.


Over the past four years, as the War on Drugs has been eclipsed by the War on Terror, the administration has been forced to scale back its expensive and ineffective efforts to stem the tide of drugs from South America. President Bush has barely mentioned drugs since September 11th, and key federal agencies, from the Department of Defense to the FBI, are quietly bowing out of the anti-drug crusade to concentrate their attention on Iraq and Al Qaeda. "The number-one stated priority for the FBI is to prevent another attack," says a spokesman for the bureau, which has diverted hundreds of agents from its anti-drug task forces to anti-terrorism work. "Other things are not the primary focus. We've had to retool."
For the agencies now grouped within the new Department of Homeland Security, the ones responsible for border security -- the Coast Guard, Immigration and Customs -- preventing terrorists from entering the country trumps their anti-drug mission. The Pentagon, meanwhile, has shipped troops responsible for drug interdiction in South and Central America to the Middle East. Surveillance flights in the Caribbean have been cut back by more than two-thirds. "We're concerned about the ability of the Defense Department to continue to provide support to law enforcement for drug interdiction," says an aide to Rep. Mark Souder, R-Ind., who chairs the House subcommittee that oversees the War on Drugs.


For the military, the drug war has become a convenient training ground for troops heading to Iraq and Afghanistan. Joint Task Force North, a unit under the U.S. Northern Command, is supposed to provide military assistance to U.S. law enforcement agencies, especially in Southwestern states along the Mexican border. But after soldiers from a Stryker brigade based in Alaska recently spent sixty days training in "rugged desert terrain" to support the border patrol, they were promptly given their marching orders for Iraq.


"This is what we term a win-win situation," says Armando Carrasco, a Northcom spokesman.



"We provide assistance, and we get training directly related to our activities."


Those "activities" have left the feds with fewer troops to fight the drug war. With America engaged in a quagmire in Iraq, at great cost in lives and money, the administration is simply unable to push its anti-drug agenda with the same intensity. "The president could sell the War on Drugs in peacetime," says Timothy Lynch, director of the Project on Criminal Justice at the conservative Cato Institute. "But they don't want to embarrass themselves now that we're in the midst of an honest-to-God shooting war. To continue that kind of rhetoric in the middle of a real war, when American soldiers are getting blown up in Iraq, makes it look trivial. There's just no comparison."

 

[miltonchitlin]

Don't forget it was Arnie the republican that vetoed a perfectly good hemp bill a couple years ago in California. Had that industry started then, we'd be much better off now.

When I'm governor I'll pass a legalization bill whether the feds like it or not. If I was sworn in under the California Constitution it's clear what laws I would uphold first.

Don't worry about the obstructionist republicans holding up bills. When they are passed anyway they'll be the first ones to take credit. Like the senator that voted against the funding then made a big deal when he presented the the check to his district. It's all politics 101.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Edit yourself, dipshit.

Want to explain why you give negative rep for a contribution to the thread and we get this crap from you? Is it because somebody proved your hero was a pot warrior?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

And tell us what the democrats in your town have done...nothing. Fucking nothing. That's what.

Don't have to. This thread isn't about Democrats. Go steer another topic and while you're at it, find all your Republican love affairs with cannabis and post em. That's the only debate you'll have here. Until then and thereafter, we'll keep posting Republican pot warriors.

 

[SpasticGramps]

we're passionate in our education and philosophy.

That's everything IMO.

Great points too. I can certainly see the validity in that argument.

I enjoy these ramblings too. It's tragic commentary that political discussions can't be more civil these days, but politics always has to do with passions so it's understandable how we all get fired up lol.

 

[miltonchitlin]

Did you comment at your town hall meetings? Fuck no you didn't...you run to the internet to post up how Republicans did it all.
Get a grip, Mr in touch with his emotions.
You did absolutely nothing to help the cause, now did you? Go ahead and lie to us and tell us what good you have done.
And tell us what the democrats in your town have done...nothing. Fucking nothing. That's what.

Of course i go to city council meetings. I was there when Hayward tried to run HPRC out of town. I was at the Berkeley protest when the feds gave dispensary owner's landlords the letters. I was there when GCAC was raided. I was there when LPC got raided. I was there when san Lorenzo tried to vote out dispensaries. We sponsored grow classes that turned into Oaksterdam U. I've gathered signatures for weeks in front of Safeway. I had my pot returned by police at a San Francisco city council meeting, at the security check point to get in.

I support Mark Leno and Tom Ammiano from California and the other democrats that introduce cannabis legalization bills. I supported Dana Roenbacher (republican) when he co-signed with Hinchey for Fed legalization. I support Barney frank and the legalization bill he sponsors every year.

And that's just off the top of my head, now run along and spew your ignorant rant over at the tea bag party.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I was addressing the original poster, not you, chitlin breath.
So with your logic, since Arnie did sign the bill into legislation, we can consider Republicans the heroes of the CA dispensary thing, yes?

Why is it that democrats are phony as fuck? And why is it that they feel that everything that happens in their lives is a result of someone else? Always looking to blame someone besides themselves.
I mean, we see on tv how Obama is blaming the republicans for not getting his health care debacle passed. Trying to convince everyone (lying through his fucking big teeth) that the republicans won't offer up any ideas, and all they want to do is obstruct legislation.
When the truth is that the reps have been trying to offer up ideas from the start, yet they have been neglected. And they have also been shut out of each and every conference and meeting on the issue.
During the Pres's speech on health care (where he was rightly called a liar on the Senate floor..and he did lie, check it) a majority of the folks on the right side of the aisle were holding up papers during the speech. These papers were the lists of ideas and proposals that the Republicans had to offer up, but were being shut out. Even as the pres is telling you lemmings the reps won't work with him, he was lying and you eat it up. Think real hard...how is it that this works? Your ignorance and bias, that's how. No way would you let a republican lie to us like that and get away with it. Hell, you call republicans liars when they state facts that everyone knows.

What is being done here is the very same sort of phony shit that you leftists practice on a regular basis. Keeping in time with our phony ass president.

Wake up. Your ignorance is killing our nation.
Fired up and emotional, you are fucking A right I'm fired up. A majority of our nation is going to be real fired up real soon...just wait and see. This shit can only go on for so long before decent people will put a stop to it. Nothing like this has ever happened in our history.

 

[miltonchitlin]

Arnie didn't sign that bill, he's a zero not a hero.

Lying through his teeth? Oh, like Bush using the state of the union to build a case against weapons of mass destruction? It's politics 101 obstructing the process so the governemt appears as broken as it's been for the last 8 years under Bush.

The news this morning is they are working 4 of the republican proposals into the health care bill.