Recovery Unit, Butane Tank for Lil' Terp Style System

[RegisPhilburn1]

If i understand this correctly, you found the residue in the recovery tank, which means it must have come from the butane can--Can taper---hose or fittings in between? But you also found it in your #50 tank? seems weird after already passing through the filter. Or did you run several cycles before you checked the recovery tank?

 

[A6 Grower]

When i first filled my tank the oily orange/brown mess was in the recovery tank. It wasn't till i put 18 cans in the recovery tank(6 at a time then recovered into the 50#) and transferred to the 50# tank using the recovery pump, that i opened up the recovery tank to see all the mess inside. I hoped that it was left over from the butane and that the butane in the 50# was fine, especially since i still had to do a cleaning run.

I ran my cleaning run using already ran material from my last few glass tubes i ran. the first run came out with a oily smell and look. It had a rainbow shine on top. So i took everything apart and cleaned the hell out of it. Put it all back together and ran another cleaning run using just low quality outdoor trim, it looked better, less oily rainbow shine but still some. so again i cleaned everything and then packed a tube 1 more time. This time it came out ok but still has that oily shine on top.

I've been doing 3 passes through the material each run cause 4 takes forever without column heat. It does seem to be less and less oil with each run though...

 

[Gray Wolf]

The bottom, just like if i ran it with the butane running through the column and material. It went can taper, hose, recovery tank, recovery hose with filter, recovery pump, 50# tank. I would run 6 cans into the recovery tank before moving it to the 50#, didn't open up the recovery tank till i was done. Was clean before i started, then covered it an oily mess after. Not just a little either, like if it was BHO, it would have been a gram.

Wow, a puzzlement!

I see possibilities on how the butane could have been contaminated from a dirty system or hoses, but it shouldn't have made it to the 50# recovery tank, after being pulled off as a vapor. The contamination would have to vaporize at a similar temperature and pressure.

Six cans in the recovery tank may mean that you were likely sucking liquid, instead of vapor, so that may explain that part. I pump one can at a time into the system.

I always run a cleaning pass on a new system, using spent material, and throw away the extract. That first run glows light blue under an inspection black light, indicating petro chemical contamination.

I've tried Vector, and it tested clean using a mirror. It could be the source, but others are more likely. Do you have any left over in the can to test by itself?

Any of the virgin plant material available to test for strange residue?

 

[A6 Grower]

Im sure its not the material, ran lots of this though glass tubes and it came out fine. I think i did suck up liquid when i recovered the butane from the recovery tank. I thought i read somewhere the safe fill was 2.7 lbs so thats about what i filled to and then recovered. Did i damage my recovery pump or anything you think? It seems to be working fine, pulls to vacuum quickly and sounds fine.

Maybe the butane picked up something from the recovery pump? Is there anything i can do to fix this? Is my 50# tank contaminated? Can it be cleaned? Darn me being in a rush, i thought about doing one can at a time but it seemed like i would have been sitting there forever lol.

I'm going to head to walmart soon to grab some charcoal to run the butane through. Do you think that will help? I've done 2 cleaning runs using spent material, then my third run using some ehhh outdoor trim. Even the third run has some oily residue.... If only i knew someone with a tank of n-butane to go borrow a couple pounds lol, would have been a lot easier...

 

[A6 Grower]

I cleaned the recovery tank before i started also so i don't think that was the contamination source. The hose maybe, it was one of the red yellow and blue hoses off ebay. The outside of the hoses had a slight greasy feel, i don't know about the inside as my fingers aren't that small lol.

EDIT:
So i ran the butane through the charcoal, did 8 passes hoping thats enough. Those last couple passes take FOREVER, definitely need some column heat. Anyway, there was a coating of oil/grease or something in the recovery tank. Cleaned everything all back up and going to keep running until its spotless when im done recovering. The oil smells a lot like these cheap hoses i got off ebay (HERE) I wonder if this is where it came from in the first place?? Either way i'll have this thing running eventually with nice clean butane lol. I put some pics of the oil thats causing me all this headache....

Question, can i keep using the same charcoal or should i pack a fresh tube?

The pictures- First one is the bottom of the recovery tank upside down, second is the bottom end cap

 

[Gray Wolf]

Your Appion will pump liquid or vapor without damage, so it should be OK. It also should not have been contaminated. There is no access to oil in the pump, so the pump would have had to contaminated some other way.

I would pitch the charcoal and polish off with a fresh batch, as well as pick up a new oversized filter dryer to scrub it further.

I wash my stainless in hot soapy water before assembly, but have never washed much off, so my guess would be the hoses. Do you have access to an inspection blacklight to look for contamination?

 

[GreenGeek]

Hey Greywolf,

Did my First Run. no pics. but wanted to report back on something of interest. based on other reports, I had expected the boil off to take 1 hr 45+ minutes to recover the butane.

I did my boil off in an hour flat by submerging my recovery tank in ice and adding a lot of rock salt to get the tank extremely cold. I think this made a huge difference in recovery time. i'm almost certian it possibly took less time than that. as i was checking the boil off temps once every 15 mins. I'm keeping detailed notes. gonna do several more runs this weekend, and will report back on more accurate times.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hey Greywolf,

Did my First Run. no pics. but wanted to report back on something of interest. based on other reports, I had expected the boil off to take 1 hr 45+ minutes to recover the butane.

I did my boil off in an hour flat by submerging my recovery tank in ice and adding a lot of rock salt to get the tank extremely cold. I think this made a huge difference in recovery time. i'm almost certian it possibly took less time than that. as i was checking the boil off temps once every 15 mins. I'm keeping detailed notes. gonna do several more runs this weekend, and will report back on more accurate times.

Good job! The folks on the Tamisum thread are reporting the same thing, but I haven't tried it on a Lil Terp yet.

Looking forward to your research results!

 

[JColtrane]

GW ... you've created a monster here, and I like it

 

[A6 Grower]

Your Appion will pump liquid or vapor without damage, so it should be OK. It also should not have been contaminated. There is no access to oil in the pump, so the pump would have had to contaminated some other way.

I would pitch the charcoal and polish off with a fresh batch, as well as pick up a new oversized filter dryer to scrub it further.

I wash my stainless in hot soapy water before assembly, but have never washed much off, so my guess would be the hoses. Do you have access to an inspection blacklight to look for contamination?

Yup already ordered a new filter, and I am on my third run of fresh charcoal. Been doing about 8 passes of butane to try and clean most of it each run. I've been filling the MKIIIA up to about 1.2-1.5 lbs each time then recovering. The last run had barely any oil in the tank so hopefully this run has none. Thats my goal. I have a black light bulb, just a regular light bulb thats a black light, should i get a fluorescent one? It kinda helps to see the oil in the tank but not really, maybe a stronger blacklight would.EDIT: yup im an idiot, just ordered a UV inspection light, saw a video of how its supposed to glow blue, i definitely don't see that with my crappy blacklight...

I've noticed i rarely pass 35 psi, my last pass sometimes goes up to 40 but never really too high. I've been keeping my water at about 120F for this cleaning procedure i've been doing. Seems to keep the recovery quick and down to just a minute or two. the first couple passes the butane evaps so quick it can't hardly pool up my refrigeration scale and psi gauge don't start changing much till the inside of the recovery tank cools a little.

I'm finishing my third run as i type this so hopefully i'm packing some trim this next time instead of charcoal, which btw is much easier to pack and unpack lol.

I'm almost sure it was the hoses that cause the contamination, now that i have ran a lot through them they also don't smell so rubbery. I won't be buying the cheap $20 ebay hoses anymore lol. The pump was brand new so i don't think it was contaminated or anything, everything was washed with soapy warm water and wiped with ISO. The only thing i did not wash was the inside of the hoses. So thats my conclusion, those hoses made my first recovery experience a little more than it needed to be

I noticed the Icing the butane storage tank is almost a must as after about 4 or 5 passes the cold tap water doesn't cool down the tank enough to keep the recovery quick and not have a hot tank of butane. Which is kind uneasy when you reach over and feel the top of the tank thats not it the water and its about 70-80F. So Ice is a must, i'm going to have to plug in my chest freezer to just to keep it full of ice. Especially when summer hits.

So far i freaking love this thing, can't wait to get some better butane also to compare between VERY clean vector and 99% N-butane.

 

[GreenGeek]

Good job! The folks on the Tamisum thread are reporting the same thing, but I haven't tried it on a Lil Terp yet.

Looking forward to your research results!

I monitored everything closer this time, and the magic number is 50 minutes to boil off 1100 grams.


Rather than use a soup warmer, i used a 10x10 corning magnetic stirrer hot plate I refurbished from a few years back. I propped the collection tank up on 3 little feet inside a 4 gallon pot, and used a 3 inch magnet to keep the water swirling around the collection tank. within 10 mins, the water temp dropped from 108 to 87, and then started to slowly climb back up. by the time the water heated back up to 106, the boil off was complete. doing my third run now.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Good idea on the stirrer! Looks like with it and brine that you have about cut recovery time in half.

We have been recovering at 110F without stirring, and using just ice and water. If possible, I would like to recover with less heat, as I note that 110F is hot enough to affect product color. 85F produces a lighter color in a Terpenator, but is assisted by pumps in addition to heat.

Sounds like its time to try some much colder water. Thanks for sharing!

 

[GreenGeek]

Ok, more numbers, after doing a second flush, and heat purging the oil in a large pyrex dish on a hot plate for a few hours (still waiting on my vac chamber to arrive) my 2x 18 inch column filled with 140grams of Sour Boggle Trim and popcorn yielded 31.1 grams on the dot! how ever, my stuff came out a bit dark, nothing went over 108 degrees.

Some one hit sampling did me and my buddy in last night...

 

[Gray Wolf]

Ok, more numbers, after doing a second flush, and heat purging the oil in a large pyrex dish on a hot plate for a few hours (still waiting on my vac chamber to arrive) my 2x 18 inch column filled with 140grams of Sour Boggle Trim and popcorn yielded 31.1 grams on the dot! how ever, my stuff came out a bit dark, nothing went over 108 degrees.

Some one hit sampling did me and my buddy in last night...

Your return looks good!

We get blond feathers at around 85F using a Terpenator.

 

[GreenGeek]

Ran into a bit of a problem yesterday on my 3rd run, I forgot to vacuum purge the collection tank and column. before draining the recovery tank into the column. it didn't drain into the column so well, and well over an hour. I inverted the column to soak for 5 mins, then proceeded to boil off the butane. when I popped the lid. there was very little BHO in the bottom. and this time I used all bud that was fully dry.

I noticed the column was still very cold. so I opened the valve at the top of the column and there was a lot of off gassing and some liquid butane sputtering out of the valve, so obviously i did something wrong. is it possible I packed the column with material too tightly?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Ran into a bit of a problem yesterday on my 3rd run, I forgot to vacuum purge the collection tank and column. before draining the recovery tank into the column. it didn't drain into the column so well, and well over an hour. I inverted the column to soak for 5 mins, then proceeded to boil off the butane. when I popped the lid. there was very little BHO in the bottom. and this time I used all bud that was fully dry.

I noticed the column was still very cold. so I opened the valve at the top of the column and there was a lot of off gassing and some liquid butane sputtering out of the valve, so obviously i did something wrong. is it possible I packed the column with material too tightly?

Did you weigh the recovery tank after draining, to see how much butane was transfered?

 

[A6 Grower]

So with the UV inspection light i'm looking for blue spots? I don't see any blue just some green here and there. The butane still leaves a residue thats got a green glow to it when i spray some from the tank onto a mirror. Is this normal?

I've ran 4 runs doing 6-8 passes each using charcoal, also have ran 3 lbs of crappy trim that was free. The oil that it produces smells/tastes exactly like the trim but has a weird taste that i don't know if its the trim or if the butane still contaminated. Theres about 7 lbs of butane in the tank. I'm thinking when i eventually get the n-butane i might get a new tank also and keep this tank for canned butane.

I have some really nice stuff to run but wanted to make sure my butane was nice and clean before i ran it. I just keep thinking back to when i first filled my tank and my recovery tank had all that oil and grease when i was done. Even if it was my hoses that were the source there was only one hose in between the can and the tank, so i don't think that all of the contamination came from that one hose. Some had to have come from the butane, maybe it was a bad batch of vector, lol my buddy just got a case that had no tips with the cans, just normal caps with no tips.

 

[Gray Wolf]

So with the UV inspection light i'm looking for blue spots? I don't see any blue just some green here and there. The butane still leaves a residue thats got a green glow to it when i spray some from the tank onto a mirror. Is this normal?

I've ran 4 runs doing 6-8 passes each using charcoal, also have ran 3 lbs of crappy trim that was free. The oil that it produces smells/tastes exactly like the trim but has a weird taste that i don't know if its the trim or if the butane still contaminated. Theres about 7 lbs of butane in the tank. I'm thinking when i eventually get the n-butane i might get a new tank also and keep this tank for canned butane.

I have some really nice stuff to run but wanted to make sure my butane was nice and clean before i ran it. I just keep thinking back to when i first filled my tank and my recovery tank had all that oil and grease when i was done. Even if it was my hoses that were the source there was only one hose in between the can and the tank, so i don't think that all of the contamination came from that one hose. Some had to have come from the butane, maybe it was a bad batch of vector, lol my buddy just got a case that had no tips with the cans, just normal caps with no tips.

You are looking for light being produced by phosphoresces, as opposed to reflected blue or green light.

I would be surprised if it was the butane, because of the differences in processing.

The liquid air gases are removed from the crude oil simply by boiling them off, before any subsequent processing, so there is no clear path for oil to end up in the butane. They are processed totally differently, in different parts of the refinery.

 

[scoots]

Yes, we always eliminate the atmosphere from a tank before adding flammable fuel.

We actually use two 50# tanks. One to store butane in and one with about 5/10 lbs in it, for the process tank.

Correct about the vapor and liquid valves on the 50# tank. The red and blue color code may be backwards, but the valves themselves are usually labled liquid and vapor.

Thanks for the good thoughts bro! A labor of love...........

Would not using such a large storage tank with very little in it that is stored outside in the explosion proof container introduce a lot of moisture and rust?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Would not using such a large storage tank with very little in it that is stored outside in the explosion proof container introduce a lot of moisture and rust?

It isn't open to atmosphere to absorb moisture.

You will pick up some moisture from processing the material, but that will happen regardless of how much you keep in the tank.

You can only put a 80% fill on a tank for starters, because of possible hydraulics with heat, and butane weighs only about 60% as much as water, so a full 50# tank will only hold 24# of butane.