Raising Ebb & Gro buckets to increase root space

[rmccinc719]

i used these buckets for a long time with some great results and ran into your same problem. when my roots really started coming out of the bottoms a place a couple of pieces of pvc cut about 3 inches tall and placed them in there to raise my buckets. . it worked great and helped me get all the way threw flower. my plants were finishing about 5ft tall and i was pulling 4 to 6 zips per plant.

 

[brightskies]

Sounds like some nice plants rmccinc! Did you have to do anything with the light gap created at the bucket top when you added the 3" pvc pipe piece?

 

[rmccinc719]

nope never had any problems. i just posted in and old thread of mine 16k warehouse. part one. check it out there's lots of pics and a lengthy diarie of all my troubles and victories.

 

[Eschertias]

Eschertias.....yours is only the second time I`ve heard of rootrot in ebb and flow buckets , and hasta be from over-vegging too small of a container IME......

Strain dependent as to how long to veg before roots grow down into the bottom containers , but it`s part of the knowledge needed to dial said setup and takes runs under your belt ta figure that out.......

Only a 5-6 week veg on these. We know it's a little too long, and we're getting the 5 gal Ebb & Grow Monster pots soonish, so that should fix that issue.

3 days since the root trim and the plants look as healthy as ever, so hopefully that fixed it.

@brightskies: I have the pots up on 2x4s to properly drain. That's basically all I did to change anything.

 

[DHF]

Gladta hear your plants are hangin in there Eschertias , and yeah.....5-6 week veg on a 2 1/2 gal bucket`s way too long IME....but......what don`t kill yas makes yas stronger......

You know cuttin all those roots off are gonna stall the plant to some extent , but they`re not fallin over in shock so I`m sure you`re tickled.....

I ran DIY 5 gal ebb and flow buckets for over 5 yrs and never vegged but couple weeks before flip , but I pre-vegged rooted cuts couple weeks under T-5`s to build rootmass before puttin em in the bloom rooms with the bare bulbs , and the bottom bucket was slap full of roots by the time stretch was over...

As said above , yas gotta dial yer strain ta know how long ta veg before flippin , to prevent probs like yas had last run.....

As rmccinc said , yas can grow bigger plants in smaller containers , but not without hiccups and overcoming obstacles such as clogged bottom containers and having to compensate for said increased rootmass.....

Hope all goes well from now on Brightskies and Escher.......

Peace...DHF.............

 

[Eschertias]

Well, they've gained another 2 inches, and they're still that wonderful shade of green, so it looks like they came through fine.

 

[guambomb813]

Great thread. DHF good info and experience with this system.
I've been running ebb n flow 5 gallon pots since I started and haven't turned back since. I did the DIY, controller bucket and all.
When I first started I just had the single 5 gallon pots and then I added a 2nd 5 gallon bucket as a "netpot". and with the extra 1.5" I added airstones in each pot where the water sits stagnant. but I found the roots were too close to the airstone and bubbles aren't necessarily gentle so I then used PVC to build a step-up to raise an additional 2". This gives more clearance and allows me to raise the controller bucket to allow for proper fill height when flooding without letting the roots just sit in stagnant water, now there is clearance for more root mass to grow and is constantly being aerated and no longer stagnant.
Great thread. Ebb n flow for life
-.-

 

[brightskies]

Well, they've gained another 2 inches, and they're still that wonderful shade of green, so it looks like they came through fine.

Great! I'm glad they're doing beter.

Great thread. DHF good info and experience with this system.
I've been running ebb n flow 5 gallon pots since I started and haven't turned back since. I did the DIY, controller bucket and all.
When I first started I just had the single 5 gallon pots and then I added a 2nd 5 gallon bucket as a "netpot". and with the extra 1.5" I added airstones in each pot where the water sits stagnant. but I found the roots were too close to the airstone and bubbles aren't necessarily gentle so I then used PVC to build a step-up to raise an additional 2". This gives more clearance and allows me to raise the controller bucket to allow for proper fill height when flooding without letting the roots just sit in stagnant water, now there is clearance for more root mass to grow and is constantly being aerated and no longer stagnant.
Great thread. Ebb n flow for life
-.-

Good info guambomb813- thanks for sharing your method.

 

[Casual]

Hi all... I'm working on a grow room at a buddy's. I'm within a few days of putting clones in. I'm using 1.5"x1.5" Grodan Cubes (I believe are essentially the same as Rockwool)
for the clones. Planning on burying them in the hydroton.
I've seen several posts about keeping the cubes above the waterline, and I've seen some posts that show the cubes being completely covered with water during the flood cycle.
I'm just looking for some clarification. This particular grow room has taken forever to get going and I don't want to start over by killing my clones!

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but y'all seem to have a pretty good grasp of the Ebb and Flow/Gro systems.

Thanks!

Caz

 

[brightskies]

Hi Casual! I'm still pretty new and definitely not the professor on this subject.

In my research, the successful e&g guys keep the rockwool above the flood line and it stays dry once established in the system. If you get that rockwool block wet 4-6 times a day it will never dry out and potentially cause rot. If you only flood 1X daily because of the rockwool, you're defeating the purpose of the system and the multiple flood/drain air exchanges that make the system so good.

I set my well-rooted RW cubes one inch above the flood line and hand water them once a day for 7 days to ensure the roots become properly established below the water line.

I'm always seeking a better way though! I'm thinking a cloner and straight roots is an ideal installation for this system.

 

[brightskies]

I see you have boards under your pots when the plants are still young. I don't raise mine up until the plants are larger and have quite a few roots sticking out into the bottom bucket.

Probably makes no difference, but worth discussing I guess.

 

[brightskies]

Okay, I've been doing some field work

I have two fairly equal Dutchgrown LUI13's that are at day 14 of flower now.

I put the 1" spacer blocks under all of the plants except for LUI13 #2. INSTEAD of the spacer block, I put the red hose around the rim of the outer pot and squeezed down tight on the top pot. This raised the top pot exactly one inch.

~~~
~~~

Here's the "before" shot, taken on the day I made the change. Both plants were the same age from seed and were almost identical, including the root system. The plant that did NOT get the ring had a larger trunk though.

BEFORE

WITH 1" Spacer Block

~~~
~~~

WITH ONLY RED HOSE ON RIM:

Sorry, I know the angles aren't the best. And it's tough holding the pot to take the pic! My conclusion SO FAR is that the red hose roots are bigger and better.

Today, I was able to set the red hose top bucket back into the lower bucket about 1/2 higher than before and it still fits tight.

I'll try and report back.

 

[*mistress*]

a simple frame of 2x2 (wood), placed on top (lip) of the bottom bucket & anchored (screwed to bucket), should keep the top bucket 2in higher. if desire to raise higher, stack another 2x2 frame on top. that should give 4in rise. the top bucket comes to rest on top of the wooden frame.

fwiw, those roots seem as they could easily fill 1/2, or more of the bottom bucket, if that is desired.

member Teresa raises the buckets by placing them onto 2x4's (KBS/tree gardener tech). top-fed, gravity returns drainage to reservoir. very simple. hope this helps

New Tree Room.....

 

[brightskies]

a simple frame of 2x2 (wood), placed on top (lip) of the bottom bucket & anchored (screwed to bucket), should keep the top bucket 2in higher. if desire to raise higher, stack another 2x2 frame on top. that should give 4in rise. the top bucket comes to rest on top of the wooden frame.

fwiw, those roots seem as they could easily fill 1/2, or more of the bottom bucket, if that is desired.

member Teresa raises the buckets by placing them onto 2x4's (KBS/tree gardener tech). top-fed, gravity returns drainage to reservoir. very simple. hope this helps

New Tree Room.....

Never thought of that *mistress*, I'll keep it in mind. Thanks!

I'm afraid to do too much at a time. I'll have lifted the inner pot a total of 1 1/2 " this grow, in 2 stages.

WOW! I hadn't come across Teresa's grows before. A LOT of good stuff there.

What is "(KBS/tree gardener tech

)"?

 

[DHF]

Hey BS.........You could keep raising the controller bucket and upper containers till end of stretch to "see" how much of a rootmass forms........then....

If there`s any air gap or void not filled with roots once swellage begins , you can lower the upper containers down along with the controller to re-establish a flood line that would compress all roots below for a Heath Robinson waterfarm type rootmass for optimum upper nutrient uptake till end of cycle........

KBS is my `ol krusty bucket setup for big plants.......Teresa`s my sweetheart from way back and has paid her dues with monsters , but......She grow`s lil diff from krusty buckets although still recirculating , but diff feed cycles.....

She raises the bottom buckets up on 2 x 4`s to keep as small amount of juice as possible in the bottom containers for a "SWC"/shallow water culture setup.......

We talked about yas raisin the containers for less stagnant juice in the bottoms , but I said I used it as a failsafe device in case of power failure the plants would have an emergency supply of juice till power was restored.......

I`ve had power off at my setups with plants sittin in total darkness in dead of winter for 3 days , and when everything was reset they never checked up and did fine till chop........

Had it happen for almost a week in late spring early summer and without the juice left in the bottoms of my 5 gal buckets the plants would`ve most certainly dried up and died.......

It`s the little things.......but if the juice bothers yas , and you can monitor your plants daily , then by all means do yer thingy.......I only went to my setups once a week and needed the added insurance.......

Good luck Bro.......DHF........

 

[*mistress*]

What is "(KBS/tree gardener tech)"?

using 2x4's, styrofoam, or bricks, to raise buckets...... to have gravity return to res.... that kbs teck

Teresa only feeds during "lites on". the "bucket system", brought to boards by kru&ty, "KBS" is 24/7 top-feed.... Teresa also does not aerate the bottom bucket, which is standard in kbs. there were pages & pages devoted just to methods of aerating the rootzone/lower bucket, on long ago boards...... the solution in kbs fills the lower 5gal bucket to 2in.... kru&ty would probably not call the method dwc, but maybe nft... yes, Teresa & Krus+y (ran) have different techniques.... similar, but different. heath robinson fills lower bucket over the drain-holes of the top bucket....

the original threads are lost. below are a couple examples. the closest to a kbs system, from recent moments (@icmag) is, maybe, Teresa's thred...

basically....
2 5 gallon buckets.
bucket 1 drilled w/ holes. lava rock as media.
bucket 2 has 1 hole @ 2" from bottom.
lots of aeration in bottom bucket.
top-fed, continuous, recirculating 24/7....
gravity drain back to res. some even drilled huge holes into cement to get res lower!
or had res on first floor, plants on second...
LOW STRESS ENVIRONMENT.... veg until @ least 3x4x5, or more, to fill 5x5x8, or more... (>genetics<)
that is the basic system.... few, if any run it current. not on boards. unless they alter title to some other LETTERS.... just modified KBS, or Heath Robinson methods, from long agon boards........

Gypsy Nirvana & bubbleman did 1st thread on boards about the "bucket system". they had to crawl into the room.......

then, kru&ty brought the method to the boards.... no-one did tutorial, ~syk~ did much to provide data & DHF still give salute to K......

that is the basic system......

examples of kbs:

KRUSTY BUCKET SYSTEM (recovery info)

4.4k Freedom Bucket Grow

KBS, KFB or Freedom Bucket questions...

FREEDOM for BONZ

 

[brightskies]

using 2x4's, styrofoam, or bricks, to raise buckets...... to have gravity return to res.... that kbs teck

Teresa only feeds during "lites on". the "bucket system", brought to boards by kru&ty, "KBS" is 24/7 top-feed.... Teresa also does not aerate the bottom bucket, which is standard in kbs. there were pages & pages devoted just to methods of aerating the rootzone/lower bucket, on long ago boards...... the solution in kbs fills the entire lower 5gal bucket.... kru&ty would probably not call the method dwc, but maybe nft... yes, Teresa & Krus+y (ran) have different techniques.... similar, but different.

the original threads are lost. below are a couple examples. the closest to a kbs system, from recent moments (@icmag) is, maybe, Teresa's thred...

basically....
2 5 gallon buckets.
bucket 1 drilled w/ holes. lava rock as media.
bucket 2 has 1 hole @ 2" from bottom.
lots of aeration in bottom bucket.
top-fed, continuous, recirculating 24/7....
gravity drain back to res. some even drilled huge holes into cement to get res lower!
or had res on first floor, plants on second...
LOW STRESS ENVIRONMENT.... veg until @ least 3x4x5, or more, to fill 5x5x8, or more... (>genetics<)
that is the basic system.... few, if any run it current. not on boards. unless they alter title to some other LETTERS.... just modified KBS, or Heath Robinson methods, from long agon boards........

Gypsy Nirvana & bubbleman did 1st thread on boards about the "bucket system". they had to crawl into the room.......

then, kru&ty brought the method to the boards.... no-one did tutorial, ~syk~ did much to provide data & DHF still give salute to K......

that is the basic system......

examples of kbs:

KRUSTY BUCKET SYSTEM (recovery info)

4.4k Freedom Bucket Grow

KBS, KFB or Freedom Bucket questions...

FREEDOM for BONZ

see, also ~ minutes 6-9 (external link)
"buckets"

Once again, thank you *mistress*. I can't wait to delve deeper.

And thanks also to you DHF! I have gleaned a lot from you, and I'm sure many others have as well.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to pass this on, it is truly priceless to me and unknown before.

 

[guambomb813]

hey bright have you ever tried not using RW cubes?
I've found that with the more dissolved oxygen I am able to induce in the water, the more I am able to flood my buckets, especially since the aerators in individual buckets. I find that RW holds too much moisture not allowing for much of any frequent flooding.
Just wondering if youve growin without them. IF not I would suggest you might build an aeroponic cloner for pretty cheap (less then $50 depending on size and place u purchase items from) so you can clone medium free to be able to experiment with being able to flood more frequently and see the differences for yourself.

 

[brightskies]

A cloner sounds good gaumbomb813 and I'm going to give it a try someday. My rockwool is always above the high tide line, so it never gets wet. I do have to hand-water it for the first week in the system though. And you have to keep an eye on the blocks because they can shift in the pot and dip below the high tide line. I don't know that its bad to flood the RW blocks so often, but it seems like a bad practice in my uneducated eyes.

 

[brightskies]

Okay, I've been doing my rubber hose experiment for 24 days of flower. The stretch has settled down.

I know, the pictures are crappy- but it's a tough shot!

Both roots are actually fairly white and similar, with a little bit of nute staining.

The inner-bucket that was raised up 2 1/2" by the red rubber hose is definitely doing better. Those roots are noticeably better and the colas seem to be just a bit bigger here at week 3. I just put a 1" block under the outer pot to keep it totally out of the solution between floods, just like the rest of the plants have been for the last 24 days.

Here's the "normal" bucket:

~~~
~~~


And here's the one that got the rubber hose on the rim, raising it up 2.5 inches:

~~~
~~~

Of course, this is hardly scientific. These are both the same strain, but are from seed. They were almost identical twins before I started the experiment though. The one without the red rubber hose used to be slightly bigger, now it's SMALLER than the other one with the red hose.

I should have done the experiment with the 2 Critical+ plants I have going. I just checked them and they are all jammed up in the lower bucket. Here's one, the other is nearly identical:

~~~
~~~

Here's the drain hole of the other one. I think I see something shiny in there. Must be part of the foil fertilizer bottle seal! LOL!

~~
~~