question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[CannaT]

Hy Hempy what kind of setup you have in hyro if it is dtw as seen on picture what you are talking about is straight lies.
Plant in hyrdo with 6 weeks on ph7 without nutrients will die and it will look like shit.
And it is matematicaly proven by science.

Look what Nevile wrote in 1988 on Haze.

"Haze is a late sativa from America, widely agreed by experts to be the best pot in the world. Very popular in the 70's, it nearly became extinct in recent years as growers switched to easier varieties. We managed to salvage a few viable seeds from the last crop grown in America and we have used them to produce some remarkable hybrids. Haze is known for an extreme, almost psychedelic spaciness. The fragrance is complex and deep with a dry flowery perfume over a base of dark leathery animal tones. When used in a hybrid it adds fascinating notes of depth and complexity to the taste, as well as a unique addition to the high. While not for everyone, the most jaded connoisseur will often find haze irresistible.”

And look first description of NL5xHaze
"HAZE X NL#5

1989 - Due to tremendous customer demand, we have spent years searching for a superb Sativa/Indica hybrid that is suited for indoor growing but still retains the unique sativa qualities in the high. The Haze X NL#5 hybrid is the result of this search. A note of warning: Adverse effects have been known to occur among inexperienced smokers, particularly when combined with alcohol. Side effects may include nausea, dizzyness, fainting and loss of bowel and bladder control. Extreme introspective behavior is considered normal."

Neville's Haze



Shantibaba and Neville decided to make a new more Haze dominant hybrid and crossed the Haze C male to a selected NL5 x Haze female, this was sold by GHS as Neville's Haze, it was a cup winner in 1998, the year it was released. Neville's Haze is the most Haze dominant hybrid that will perform indoors, under lights and having both the A and C males in it's lineage, it contains phenotypes that express both the Colombian and Thai sides of the Haze genetics. Here is the original description from the GHS catalogue:





Pedigree: Almost pure Haze with just a hint of Indica (Northern Lights).

Awards: Never entered in any competition.

Strength: The most potent variety of its kind on or off the market. Not recommended for inexperienced smokers - too trippy - too profound.

Flowering Times: Indoors: should be started under 12 hours of lights. The earliest will finish in 14 weeks (25%). Those that take much longer than this are usually discarded as not practical.
Outdoors: should be grown in the Tropics + started just before the on set of autumn. Yields are surprisingly good - the longer flowering time is usually compensated with extra large yields, both in and outdoors. Not for the novice smoker or grower.
Specifications: ~ Flower: 14 + weeks ~ Price: $175.00 (10 seeds)

So in reality Nevile want O.Haze characteristics in Indica/sativa hybrid and I think he had very good sucess in this breeding 2 times with NLxHaze which was most importent.
And second time with Nevile Haze(NLxHaze)xHaze.
He didnt breed NL to Haze for anything else than lovering flower time and indoor commercial production.

 

[harvestreaper]

interesting cannatorium,,,,when we know you can get 14 week an faster phenos within the pure haze line seems strange the earliest in nh will be 14 weeks considering they crossed to nl

 

[CannaT]

You chat so much breeze i lost you when you said White Rino is stronger than Neville's Hazeyou clearly dont know what your talking about( i dont normally use these icons but they are defo needed here LOL

This is what im talking about , what Nevil Haze have you smoked ?
Because i smoked all the famous dutch cuts and alot of the world famous elites and none beat the authentic Nevil Haze clone from south of Holland. We have 1 of the best white Rino cuts ever in my neighbourhood and has been for 20 years and yes its very potent but lol , nothing even close to Nevil Haze.

When i say Neville strains all over Holland i dont mean Nevil Haze strain , i mean all the hybrids , seed and everything near enough is from his work, indica, Sativa , hybrids including Amnesia Haze so yes Neville still dominates the scene


On the DNA Genetics thing no , they have far more access to clones etc and have a whole army working for them and im a 1 man company. They have had investors( trust me i know them) and alot of help to get where they are , plus they have great skills and marketing to make them what they are today.
Ive had chances for big investors but have declined every time.

In this industry you need to kiss alot of ass and im not 1 of those guys so will happily take the long route around and things are going great for me these days so check me out in a few years and then come back and see how im doing.



I dont want to really bring Sam into this , but lets be clear , he didn't make Haze ! , he collected seeds from Haze made in California and brought the seeds to Holland and sold them to Neville .
What did Sam make ? , or did he collect most of it ( and respect for that) but Neville made more than anyone and spread millions of seeds around the world advancing our scene like knowone else , yes Sam sold Neville a bunch of the strains used to make Neville's strains but Sam didn't make most of them at all and just did what i and any other seedmaker does , use someone else's strain to make a hybrid or F2,F3 etc etc.

Lets be brutally honest, Neville beat Sam to the races with seed production and that what the real argument was about

OJD please dont be subjective look here some science facts.
White Rhino is one of those strains with an insanely high level of average THC per plant. With upper measurements registering at 22% and average plant yields at 18%
I know White Rhino lineages very well your white Rhino is cheese/diesely one.
It is strong like most of white rhinos.
But strongest white rhinos are heavy woody,earthy smells hashplant look end flower by 63 days.
That shit devastate most expirenced smokers.
Also test Nevile Haze cuiltivars from seeds most of them dont go up more than 16% of thc most are around 13%.
Very few are close to 20%.
So yes WR is stronger than Nevile Haze.

That what tests say in labs.
What you think it is just your opinion and nothing else.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Primal haze...the base of all haze....the only thing that was one generation removed...not 20 or with other things added yet still called pure haze by some....

 

[TheDarkStorm]

OJD please dont be subjective look here some science facts.
White Rhino is one of those strains with an insanely high level of average THC per plant. With upper measurements registering at 22% and average plant yields at 18%
I know White Rhino lineages very well your white Rhino is cheese/diesely one.
It is strong like most of white rhinos.
But strongest white rhinos are heavy woody,earthy smells hashplant look end flower by 63 days.
That shit devastate most expirenced smokers.
Also test Nevile Haze cuiltivars from seeds most of them dont go up more than 16% of thc most are around 13%.
Very few are close to 20%.
So yes WR is stronger than Nevile Haze.

That what tests say in labs.
What you think it is just your opinion and nothing else.

Dude didnt you think stuff from the 80's an 90's was all 7% thc and evrything today was better...probably showing you only been smoking post 2000....just cus somthing has a thc% of 30 dont mean its the strongest effect...you do know the the higher the thc % the lower the ratios of other cannabinoids some of wich are still unknown.
By the way a5 hits over 22% outdoors and can go higher....nh can hit 21% and can go way higher....are you looking at commercial seed results that are probably generations removed from the original f1,s.......an if your saying og and rino which has cbd is stronger than a sativa with nill cbd you need to find some proper weed...or maybe you like that mongy sleepy stuff with no high and legs and think thats strong.....think this is a mainly haze/ sativa thread

 

[CannaT]

Dude didnt you think stuff from the 80's an 90's was 7% thc and evrything today was better...probably showing you only been smoking post 2000....just cus somthing has a thc% of 30 dont mean its the strongest effect...you do know the the higher the thc % the lower the ratios of other cannabinoids some of wich are still unknown.
By the way a5 hits over 22% outdoors and can go higher....nh can hit 21% and can go way higher....are you looking at commercial seed results that are probably generations removed from the original f1,s.......an if your saying og and rino which has cbd is stronger than a sativa with nill cbd you need to find some proper weed

Hy TDS,White Rhino is indica strain knowed for no CBD at all also as OG kush.
''Like many other indicas that have been bred for sheer THC intensity, White Rhino does not possess a high quantity of CBD.
You can typically expect around 1% CBD content in your White Rhino; this is actually a little bit more than most high-strength indicas, so White Rhino does offer at least some of the useful medicinal effects that CBD can generally cause.''
White Rhino’s THC level averages between 18-22% meaning it’s quite potent.

Animal OG 26.2%thc 0.15% cbd
Limon OG 25.06% 0.26%
Jack Herer cut was tested 24,75% thc and 0,29% cbd....

Nevilles Haze THC: 21% CBD: 1.1% CBN: 0.2%....GHS old cutting.

We need science GC or HPLC tests not your subjective pre haze and other bullshit.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Hy TDS,White Rhino is indica strain knowed for no CBD at all also as OG kush.
''Like many other indicas that have been bred for sheer THC intensity, White Rhino does not possess a high quantity of CBD.
You can typically expect around 1% CBD content in your White Rhino; this is actually a little bit more than most high-strength indicas, so White Rhino does offer at least some of the useful medicinal effects that CBD can generally cause.''
White Rhino’s THC level averages between 18-22% meaning it’s quite potent.

Animal OG 26.2%thc 0.15% cbd
Limon OG 25.06% 0.26%
Jack Herer cut was tested 24,75% thc and 0,29% cbd....

Nevilles Haze THC: 21% CBD: 1.1% CBN: 0.2%....GHS old cutting.

We need science GC or HPLC tests not your subjective pre haze and other bullshit.

Intresting you say rino has so little cbd....but you do know its a indica...or would you class it as a sativa....do you know how much thcv it has

In your opinion why do you think the seeds ghs sell as nh have less thc percentages on average than the original cutting they held.
Cookies tests at 25-28% on average...perhaps you'll like that..or maybe bruce banner

 

[CannaT]

Intresting you say rino has so little cbd....but you do know its a indica...or would you class it as a sativa....do you know how much thcv it has

In your opinion why do you think the seeds ghs sell as nh have less thc percentages on average than the original cutting they held.
Cookies tests at 25-28% on average...perhaps you'll like that..or maybe bruce banner

Smoking Gellato right now XD.

 

[@hempy]

Lets look away from the fact the she somehow managed to build the flowers without any nutrients, but man...

Not a single yellow leaf on that plant, fed only with water since sexing...in hydro...and yet she is very dark green, where did she get the Nitrogen from? Even with the most perfect light setup and spectrum, I would not believe it was enough to keep her that green for the whole flowering cycle. From the look I can tell you that plant was not only fed, but even too much lol

I did plenty of grow logs from germination until harvest documented all of this from 2000 you would have to be an idiot to post information that was untrue.

It is very common in even 50% haze hybrids to go 1/2 strength feeding from the early part of flowering and to then only need to feed them water from 3/4 or even half way threw flower until harvest.

The Thai pictured was only given water from early flower until harvest i would know as i grew it and it was documented.

If i feed that plant even half strength nutrient mixes it would of burnt to a crisp and died.

That Thai was 14 ft 7ft up then trained 7ft along the wall.

I dont have yellow leaf or burnt flowers because i let the plant tell me what they need.

 

[Brother Nature]

It is very common in even 50% haze hybrids to go 1/2 strength feeding from the early part of flowering and to then only need to feed them water from 3/4 or even half way threw flower until harvest.

I try not to post in these sativa threads, they seem about as fun as the political ones. But, I just don't understand this, how is that even possible? I'm not shit talking either, if it is in fact a truth I'd be really interested in how that actually works, how can a plant be grown in water only, do the nutrients build up ion the plant and then the only water feed acts like a very slow flush? It just doesn't make any sense, I know lots of plants are nute sensitive and figuring out how much and what to feed them can be difficult, but I just can't comprehend how a plant can live beyond a few weeks with no sustenance at all?

Can you please link some of those documented grows? I'm real keen to start some hazes and long flowering sativas so would like as much info as I can.

 

[Guest]

Yeah that nh cut they use has been selected by someone els not nevil..if you ask karma he's straight with that info....mr haze had one of the cuts nevil had selected....

So whats the score with karmas bandaid and a5s1, are these using nevs cuts.

 

[@hempy]

I try not to post in these sativa threads, they seem about as fun as the political ones. But, I just don't understand this, how is that even possible? I'm not shit talking either, if it is in fact a truth I'd be really interested in how that actually works, how can a plant be grown in water only, do the nutrients build up ion the plant and then the only water feed acts like a very slow flush? It just doesn't make any sense, I know lots of plants are nute sensitive and figuring out how much and what to feed them can be difficult, but I just can't comprehend how a plant can live beyond a few weeks with no sustenance at all?

Can you please link some of those documented grows? I'm real keen to start some hazes and long flowering sativas so would like as much info as I can.

I will try and find the Thai grow thread but all the ones at MrNice i edited and removed all the info and pics on all my posts and threads there before i left in 2013.The other place were i had grow logs was at Cannabis world and older members some lurking here have read and seen them.

I am not a scientist mate so i can explain it technically for you but what i am is a grower a guy that has spent over 40 years of his life watching the plants i grew all but a few being Sativas.

The plant tells you what it likes and what it dose not like.

This is a Haze hybrid flowering early stage this is a line called early Haze.

Same plant further along into flower but starting to tell me her feeding needs to be reduced or stopped.

 

[Brother Nature]

I will try and find the Thai grow thread but all the ones at MrNice i edited and removed all the info and pics on all my posts and threads there before i left in 2013.The other place were i had grow logs was at Cannabis world and older members some lurking here have read and seen them.

I am not a scientist mate so i can explain it technically for you but what i am is a grower a guy that has spent over 40 years of his life watching the plants i grew all but a few being Sativas.

The plant tells you what it likes and what it dose not like.

This is a Haze hybrid flowering early stage this is a line called early Haze.
View Image


Same plant further along into flower but starting to tell me her feeding needs to be reduced or stopped.
View Image

I'm no scientist either Hempy, but I do have an understanding about how plants grow and it's a pretty outrageous claim to say you can grow a cannabis plant (or any plant for that matter) hydroponically without giving it any food for 7+ weeks. Perhaps there are other haze growers here that can attest to that, but I've just never heard that anywhere and I, like you, am a big cannabis nerd so I'd imagine with a claim like that you'd have some sort of examples or evidence. I guess whatever works for you works cause that early haze does look quite nice.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

OJD please dont be subjective look here some science facts.
White Rhino is one of those strains with an insanely high level of average THC per plant. With upper measurements registering at 22% and average plant yields at 18%
I know White Rhino lineages very well your white Rhino is cheese/diesely one.
It is strong like most of white rhinos.
But strongest white rhinos are heavy woody,earthy smells hashplant look end flower by 63 days.
That shit devastate most expirenced smokers.
Also test Nevile Haze cuiltivars from seeds most of them dont go up more than 16% of thc most are around 13%.
Very few are close to 20%.
So yes WR is stronger than Nevile Haze.

That what tests say in labs.
What you think it is just your opinion and nothing else.

very simplistic, and wrong too.

 

[@hempy]

I'm no scientist either Hempy, but I do have an understanding about how plants grow and it's a pretty outrageous claim to say you can grow a cannabis plant (or any plant for that matter) hydroponically without giving it any food for 7+ weeks. Perhaps there are other haze growers here that can attest to that, but I've just never heard that anywhere and I, like you, am a big cannabis nerd so I'd imagine with a claim like that you'd have some sort of examples or evidence. I guess whatever works for you works cause that early haze does look quite nice.

This is why i dont like shearing on the forums any more how many pure sativas have you grown indoors ?.

Nevil's Haze can take 6 to 7 weeks to just show sex add 4 weeks of veg before you put them into flower that is 11 weeks of full feeding.

Now that same NH may be okay with 1/2 strength solution for weeks once it shows sex or it may not it is plant or strain dependent.

The Thai pictured i veg for say 4 weeks put it into flower and it take between 3 to 4 months for it to show sex you do the months that is 18 weeks of full strength nutrient solution feeding so its not like they have been starved or grown in popper.

What would you do Brother Nature ? Flush n harvest immature plants or allow them to burn and Die.

 

[Benny106]

im no scientist, but my hazes are almost done to the point of normal flush timings with no 'feeds' at all. just water, the ot1's and hybrids are not going to make it and will need a repot next round. I just wanted to see what 4l of dirt and a rooted clone would do before I go in hard.


in this case things like dirt and haze aren't made equally.

 

[@hempy]

Sams Original haze seed are Grey

This is Johnny's inbreed Ohaze from Dutchman i think.

NH seed looks like Johnny's most are Grey with what looks like black dots some are pure grey my question is why is Sam's seed grey and not the OHaze being sold.

 

[Brother Nature]

This is why i dont like shearing on the forums any more how many pure sativas have you grown indoors ?.

Nevil's Haze can take 6 to 7 weeks to just show sex add 4 weeks of veg before you put them into flower that is 11 weeks of full feeding.

Now that same NH may be okay with 1/2 strength solution for weeks once it shows sex or it may not it is plant or strain dependent.

The Thai pictured i veg for say 4 weeks put it into flower and it take between 3 to 4 months for it to show sex you do the months that is 18 weeks of full strength nutrient solution feeding so its not like they have been starved or grown in popper.

What would you do Brother Nature ? Flush n harvest immature plants or allow them to burn and Die.

Right, well it seems I misunderstood you, I took what you said as you only feed water halfway through the 12/12 cycle, not halfway through them showing sex and finishing. E.g. on a 20wk strain, you flip to flower, then 10 weeks in you start feeding nothing but water for the next 10 weeks, but from what you said above, you flip, wait for sex to show then cut it back to only water halfway between whenever they sexed and the harvest point. Am I getting that right? And we are talking hydroponics here right? Not another medium?


I'd also like to say I don't get where the condescending tone in the quoted post comes from. I think i was rather civil in the way I asked you my questions, I clearly stated I'm trying to gather information to learn how to grow long flowering Sativas. I'd think that would imply I'd not grown them indoors before. The way you say what you say is a little confusing and I don't think I'm the only one to not totally get it, so a bit of clarification can go a long way. As for the last comment, I think if you check out my profile you will see I've grown a few plants and documented the grows in a number of journals on this site. I'm here to learn, contribute, eventually help others like has been done for me here many a times. My reason for combing these haze and ultimate sativa threads is that I've got an unknown NLD variety growing outdoors now and I'd like to know how to reproduce her indoors if she turns out to be a good plant. Either way mate, good luck with your hazes and hope everything in life works out for you.

 

[mexcurandero420]

NH seed looks like Johnny's most are Grey with what looks like black dots some are pure grey my question is why is Sam's seed grey and not the OHaze being sold.

That the seeds from Sam are grey has to do with the timing you harvest them.Later harvest will give darker seeds with Tiger print.I even had white seeds which were hard enough not sqeez them to pulp with your fingers and plants grew out of it.

 

[MAHA KALA]

A question...just out of intrest...have you tried putting your thh to the golden laos...if not..I think you should try that, could be interesting. Or have you managed to try bushys version with the ohz..if so wat do you think of it.

no, but I crossed it with black vietnamese genetics, which is more trippy than Laos genetics.. used THH female. seeds are popping now at some of my friends, you can see it at icmag too. so we will see, I crossed namblack hybrid also to NH and bandaidhz, and hopefully improved it to the sativa side.. so let see . I cant thank enough to my brother Huesos for vietnamese beauty genetics. that guy is real standout and very honest. much love.