question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[harvestreaper]

Despite what Sam and Nevil have said, I'm not convinced that haze can't be improved through selection and inbreeding. Case in point: Tom Hill Haze.

totally agree its a well kmown fact ,lines can be improved through in and linebreeding but thats seriuos hard work with no guarantee of succcess ,,when it comes to selling to the public crosses give instant vigour and also hide rececives under the carpet unfortuantley after several generations of safe crosses your stock had aquired rececives from each of those crosses when that line is later inbred and everything under the carpet gets revealed inbreeding gets the blame when all it did was reveal what was already there,, ,imo there only one way to find out if pure haze can be improved by inbreeding and that of course is inbreeding it and seeing for self

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Most uplifting smoke I've had recently was Santa Marta Colombian...Green with dark purple speckles in the bud...it has an uplifting and surprisingly pleasant high...nice comedown and doesn't whack you outta your gourd every time you smoke it...it just gets you "high" without the jitters/noids. It's no surprise that the Haze bros used Colombians to make Ohaze...I found one seed in the bag and I plan on trying to grow it out, lol

Back in 2014, I grew 4 NH seeds...Once dried and cured, I smoked this NH2 (Nevil haze, stretch pheno 2) for a couple weeks straight...was really nice and uplifting at first, but also brought on some paranoia after smoking it for a couple weeks...had me peeking out the window and kinda tripping a bit, which is a feeling I don't really like...at least not on a daily basis. The others were more NL dominant, I think...but that stretchy NH2 pheno was some scary smoke, lol...definitely not for everyday consumption.

I think this one was NH1...in mid-late flower...

This was the NH2, stretch pheno...mid flowering...I called this one "Big Sis".

NH2 later in flowering with the NH1 on the right...

Sorta off topic...but...I was sitting here thinking that it would be nice to have a thread here on IC dedicated to all things Nevil Martin Schoenmakers. People could post their grow pics and share their stories with growing his varieties. Maybe @hempy would like to start it? As a caveat, it wouldn't be a place to rubbish his name or anything like that, but it could maybe be a place to share only the good things that he did and all the fine smoke that came out of his creations. You think that'd be a good idea or not, @hempy?


Few reasons I'd like to see a dedication thread to Nevil...



1) This thread was originally created to ask Sam questions about haze and it has morphed into something else, which isn't really fair to Sam or the original point of this thread.



2) For people not familiar with Nev's work, or his contributions to the scene, it might help inspire others to take a similar path in regards to breeding and pushing boundaries.


3) Given the amount of influence Nev had in such a short time on the growscene, I'm actually surprised no one has started a thread yet.



I think the time has come to give Nevil a spot of his own here on IC. What do you guys think?


HB.

 

[RoyalFlush]

Most uplifting smoke I've had recently was Santa Marta Colombian...Green with dark purple speckles in the bud...it has an uplifting and surprisingly pleasant high...nice comedown and doesn't whack you outta your gourd every time you smoke it...it just gets you "high" without the jitters/noids. It's no surprise that the Haze bros used Colombians to make Ohaze...I found one seed in the bag and I plan on trying to grow it out, lol

Back in 2014, I grew 4 NH seeds...Once dried and cured, I smoked this NH2 (Nevil haze, stretch pheno 2) for a couple weeks straight...was really nice and uplifting at first, but also brought on some paranoia after smoking it for a couple weeks...had me peeking out the window and kinda tripping a bit, which is a feeling I don't really like...at least not on a daily basis. The others were more NL dominant, I think...but that stretchy NH2 pheno was some scary smoke, lol...definitely not for everyday consumption.

View Image


I think this one was NH1...in mid-late flower...
View Image
View Image

This was the NH2, stretch pheno...mid flowering...I called this one "Big Sis".
View Image


NH2 later in flowering with the NH1 on the right...
View Image


Sorta off topic...but...I was sitting here thinking that it would be nice to have a thread here on IC dedicated to all things Nevil Martin Schoenmakers. People could post their grow pics and share their stories with growing his varieties. Maybe @hempy would like to start it? As a caveat, it wouldn't be a place to rubbish his name or anything like that, but it could maybe be a place to share only the good things that he did and all the fine smoke that came out of his creations. You think that'd be a good idea or not, @hempy?


Few reasons I'd like to see a dedication thread to Nevil...



1) This thread was originally created to ask Sam questions about haze and it has morphed into something else, which isn't really fair to Sam or the original point of this thread.



2) For people not familiar with Nev's work, or his contributions to the scene, it might help inspire others to take a similar path in regards to breeding and pushing boundaries.


3) Given the amount of influence Nev had in such a short time on the growscene, I'm actually surprised no one has started a thread yet.



I think the time has come to give Nevil a spot of his own here on IC. What do you guys think?


HB.

Fantastic Idea!

I also think @hempy should start it, being that he knew Nev more then most of us. Definitely a thread about Nev and his strains/history with pics included (no doubt).

Then again Sam might get butt hurt about it .

 

[Donald Mallard]

sounds like a good idea hb ,
id say appropriate that hempy is the emcee , thread starter ,
what ever suits , he sure has some large respect for nevil ...



btw ,, always love those backyard haze shots of yours hb ,
the bud shots sure look tasty ,
who doesnt love those long ass colas ,
im a big fan of plants that do that ..

 

[@hempy]

I do have a lot of respect for Nev we became very close over time but i also called shanti a friend i called Jesse a friend and others like Kash a friend.I made friends with many in the community from all over the world some we did not see eye to eye with some things but ha that is life.


I may not agree with Sam at times but i would still show Sam the same respect as i would Neville or as i would expect in return if i spoke to him or met him that is what people do.


I think the person that needs to start this thread is the person that was with Nev in the Dam when he did a lot of the work.


I will ask him if he would be interested cant promise a thing but can ask.

 

[MAHA KALA]

1) This thread was originally created to ask Sam questions about haze and it has morphed into something else, which isn't really fair to Sam or the original point of this thread.



2) For people not familiar with Nev's work, or his contributions to the scene, it might help inspire others to take a similar path in regards to breeding and pushing boundaries.


3) Given the amount of influence Nev had in such a short time on the growscene, I'm actually surprised no one has started a thread yet.



I think the time has come to give Nevil a spot of his own here on IC. What do you guys think?


HB.

absolutely agree. this is not thread questions for Nevil on northern lights hybrids..

 

[@hempy]

absolutely agree. this is not thread questions for Nevil on northern lights hybrids..

Neville worked with pure Haze Maha yes he crossed pure haze to NL but he also crossed it to sk / HP and other things. I love how you make it sound like he had no connection to pure haze.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

sounds like a good idea hb ,
id say appropriate that hempy is the emcee , thread starter ,
what ever suits , he sure has some large respect for nevil ...



btw ,, always love those backyard haze shots of yours hb ,
the bud shots sure look tasty ,
who doesnt love those long ass colas ,
im a big fan of plants that do that ..

G’day Wal! Yeah I think it’d be appropriate for hempy to lead the charge and get the thread started. He seems to have the most intimate knowledge of the man and can help preserve Nevs legacy on here probably better than anyone else.

Looking at those photos again, I always remember pulling the tops down to check the colas and how fun it was to let the plant go and watch it swing back into normal position. I didn’t have a ladder tall enough to get up there, so I had to pull the plant down to check it...it must have been about 12’ tall by the time it finished, lol.

**Edit: didn’t see your response there, hempy. That’d be awesome if you could get Nevs friend on here to start the thread...if he doesn’t want to do it, maybe you would reconsider taking a stab at it? I think it would be a thread worth starting for sure.


HB.

 

[Elmer Bud]

not to bring up old part of this thread, however think they were arguing over something that was just semantics.

perhaps neville was just saying the variety began in 1969 not that he got them in 1969 simply that the haze brothers began breeding it then. which does not conflict with Sams story that he gave the haze seeds to him in the 80s. one of those, u cant see the forrest from the SOG er something.

Nevil also said they had an ancestor named Burning Bush .
Which was one of Sam`s selected clones he used to breed the bulk lots of seeds he sold .
Nevil bought thousands of seeds . But fcked up the germing ...

As far as I can tell Burning Bush was created in the Netherlands when Sam repro the Haze .
Nevil got some of the details but misinterpreted the full story is my take .

 

[MAHA KALA]

Neville worked with pure Haze Maha yes he crossed pure haze to NL but he also crossed it to sk / HP and other things. I love how you make it sound like he had no connection to pure haze.

yes, because when I cross trainwreck with sour diesel, and I will get trainwreck pheno from these seeds, is it trainwreck what I have? no way.. so I dont understand why somebody tried to convince me, that when you cross original haze with nothern lightsxhawaiian and you will get haze pheno, its haze.. no, its not. its still northern lights number 5 cross.. I dont like how you try to look it like it has no connection to NL5.. this is typical fro mns forum, where I understand they sell those NL5haze seeds there, but why I have to read it when I open this thread I dont know. thats why I call it trolling. and yes I grew OSH cut, which is supposed to be skunk x haze from Neville. its is very skunky!

 

[MAHA KALA]

when I open this thread, I would like to know more about phenotypes of original haze, especially about blue and purple phenos. why does seedsman haze have only green phenos and still its called original haze. did skunkman preserve so many possible phenos in his line or did he select it up to his standards and select out undesirable phenos for him. how was the original haze from Santa Cruz I want to hear from old timers. but still have to read something about some guy, who used only two phenotypes of it in his crosses, and because there was not such similar seedbank in the past. people were buying mainly from him.. great seller, outstanding F1s, yes, but thats all.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Nevil also said they had an ancestor named Burning Bush .
Which was one of Sam`s selected clones he used to breed the bulk lots of seeds he sold .
Nevil bought thousands of seeds . But fcked up the germing ...

As far as I can tell Burning Bush was created in the Netherlands when Sam repro the Haze .
Nevil got some of the details but misinterpreted the full story is my take .

if i recall the date nevil said was on the bag of seeds (69)??,

wasnt something sam was familiar with ,

CORRECT, NEVIL CAN SAY WHATEVER BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU I ONLY SOLD NEVIL OHAZE SEEDS I MADE IN CALIF IN THE LATE 70'S EARLY 80'S. I HAD VERY FEW OHAZE SEEDS THAT I COLLECTED FROM 1969-LATE 70'S THAT WERE TAKEN FROM THE 2 HAZE GROWERS OHAZE HERB. I DID NOT EVER SELL ANY OF THEM, I SPROUTED THEM ALL LOOKING FOR ELITE KEEPERS. AND I USED THE OHAZE ELITE CLONES TO MAKE OHAZE SEEDS TO SELL.
-SamS


the tom hills haze i grew many years ago wasnt like the other haze hybrids i grew,
it was more like an asian sativa ,
very similar in fact to the local stuff here we called mango ,
it had that unripe mango smell about it and we suspect it was from imported thai weed ,

im not so familiar with colombian , but i expect its not the same as the thai weed we had ...



kinda made me wonder if the haze nevil got was related to the haze tom hill got ,, if they were , it was a distant relationship ..

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

if i recall the date nevil said was on the bag of seeds (69)??,

wasnt something sam was familiar with ,


the tom hills haze i grew many years ago wasnt like the other haze hybrids i grew,
it was more like an asian sativa ,
very similar in fact to the local stuff here we called mango ,
it had that unripe mango smell about it and we suspect it was from imported thai weed ,

im not so familiar with colombian , but i expect its not the same as the thai weed we had ...



kinda made me wonder if the haze nevil got was related to the haze tom hill got ,, if they were , it was a distant relationship ..

After having a close look at Mac’s THH work, they must be close cousins. Would you say Mad Mac’s haze looks like it has some SE Asian influence, Wal? I’m not sure myself as I’ve only grown a handful of SE Asian varieties so far.

When Sam arrived in the Netherlands, he supposedly started working on haze and he has said in the past that the seed he sold Nev was from this work he did...and not from old Haze Brothers stock. I believe Sam also mentioned that he put some Thai to it later on, so maybe the seed he sold to Wernard was Ohaze with Thai added...which could explain why THH reminds you of the old SE Asian stuff.

It’s pretty common knowledge that Tom got his haze from Posi.

HB.

 

[Donald Mallard]

id have to take another look at mad macs stuff hb ,
but i figured he was the man to ask as he had grown plenty of haze lately ,
i speculated also that it could be the haze with the thai in it ,
if so , the stuff i grew was dominated by the thai ,
i had a local mango variety at the time and it was hard to tell thh and the local mango stuff apart ,
i guess theres a chance the thh has changed a little with reproduction ,
i grew it in the early 2000 s ...

 

[@hempy]

yes, because when I cross trainwreck with sour diesel, and I will get trainwreck pheno from these seeds, is it trainwreck what I have? no way.. so I dont understand why somebody tried to convince me, that when you cross original haze with nothern lightsxhawaiian and you will get haze pheno, its haze.. no, its not. its still northern lights number 5 cross.. I dont like how you try to look it like it has no connection to NL5.. this is typical fro mns forum, where I understand they sell those NL5haze seeds there, but why I have to read it when I open this thread I dont know. thats why I call it trolling. and yes I grew OSH cut, which is supposed to be skunk x haze from Neville. its is very skunky!

Maha have you grown any f1 seed from Neville's work or even Sam's work like his Sk1/Hz to even understand how haze out crosses ?.


Here are just 2 50% haze hybrids one is a MangoHaze the other is a SSH.


Yea they really look like Northern lights plants.

 

[Nexus7]

@Maha

I was speaking to the guy who said he secured and bred pure Gold Colombian seeds in 1979/1980 obtained from Colombia. He was a Santa Cruz local.

He said the was unaware any Original Haze or even the Haze Bros. It was just called Santa Cruz Haze!

Phylos DNA testing shows that his Gold Colombian line when on to be a parent of Old Timer's Haze. It also shows that this Gold Colombian is a descendant of Thai stick.

My theory is Colombian Gold is actually Thai stick x Colombian red landrace. Possible backcrossed to Colombian Red again. The gold color would come from the Thai side and the magenta/fuchsia from the Colombian Red.

We see for sure that both Oldtimer's Haze and the SnowHigh line of '72 CG both have the whole rainbow of colors we would expect from Haze.

No disrespect to Sam but I feel he doesn't know which Original Haze line he got.

There were three different Original Haze lines (numbered 1 - 3) listed in that old seed ad plus an extra late New Year's Haze. I guess Sam got one of the later versions already crossed to Thai or Kerala hence the predominance of green.

These are just my personal opinions so no disrespect to Sam or anyone else. Take them with a grain of salt and of course I'm open to the possibility that my opinions are not correct.

Peace,

N7

 

[clearheaded]

lol remember no seeds were sold as haze till was taken to Amsterdam.

cannabis an old world plant came to americas after contact.. so yes all Mexican columbian etc come from Asia.

 

[Nexus7]

I'm pretty sure Haze seeds and weed were freely available in Santa Cruz, CA pre Amsterdam times.

In fact I think Haze was more than likely a loose term for any good landrace Sativa grown and bred in Santa Cruz rather than a specific strain or line. I doubt Haze Bros. had any monopoly on Haze genetics hence the desire to separate it with the Original moniker.

There would be a huge genetic difference from Asian weed from 1500's grown and inbred in South America for hundreds of years to that of mid 1970's Thai stick. Genetically you wouldn't see them being closely related at all just at an ancient level.

N7

 

[MadMac]

Ohhh-haze and Tom Hill Haze

Ohhh-haze and Tom Hill Haze

hello haze lovers,
well THH is to me Thai x Haze ...
i'm sure Positronic gave never pure haze to Tom Hill...
have grown' booth ... 25 THH and 30 OHz
the THH where a few original and 2 packs of Raco's preservation...
non of the THH looked like the OHz... only one lime green had a bit
but not those long slender leaf's..
smell and high are also different... but interesting note:
all 4 pheno's are found in THH but not in OHz!
have 2 OHz lines... one is the Seedsman release and the other kept as clones from 90'
booth looking similar while the 90' is more wilder and more open flowers...
pic's are all in this thread... and in my album...
the OHz is outstanding!
the best weed i've smoked in 30 years + ...
my friends said the same...
absolute clear high
no ceiling... just getting higher...
no comedown... just flow's away...
no hangover... doesn't matter how high you went.. next morning is fantastic... just good mood
it's electric, very uplifting - pure motivation to do something...
good for sex too...
woman love it...
it's a different high than all what i'll know... and that's a lot!
this is definitif a drug... and makes addicted...
i'll don't want to smoke any other...
but have it all .. from Thai to THH, Doors, NHz etx... all ready cured from last season...
i'll did not touch any after the OHz is ready...
just sometimes to test... and i always go back to OHz
now i have a problem... not enough like always from the best...
but new cut's are prepared... and i don't think to grow any other weed the next time... you know me... i have most of all interesting seeds in my fridge... lot's of my own haze crosses... only the OHz crosses i did can compare to OHz...
the rest is good but not as amazing as OHz.
I'm so happy to got my hands on it... waited so long ...
but now i'll totally understand what Sam and others found on the OHz...
you really have to grow i... to get the hang on...
and not just one time... this will often fail...
the second and third grow will be what show's the real potential of the strain... OHz is not easy to keep happy indoors... she needs longer before flower onset... indoors only from cut and restricted root space and nutes... or it will shoot out of the roof... OHz stretches 10x in flower mode...
to make it short... this is my personal holy grail.
and i wish and hope that there will be a new release soon...
so that everyone can check it out...
now with modern light (far red, UV)...
OHz is grown best in soil with added dolomite lime and low nutes...
+ strong light... cmh is still good for da haze...

here are some OHz and Sam's gear... OHz x SK1, LovePortion x OHz/SK1, Thunk, SMG, old SK#1 from 90'...
little stacked but males get sorted out soon...

and one of my fav OHz... need much more of this !
soon my tents will be full with the best from all...

get hazed'
i'am
M.

 

[@hempy]

Todd McCormick

I do not have a specific favorite Haze, but that said, there is a terpene profile that is spicy and reminiscent of the original “Northern Lights #5 x Haze” that I first smoked at the cannabis castle back in 1994. The same spicy terpene combination can also be found in “Nevil’s Haze” and is the scent and taste (and high) that truly got me hooked on Haze. It was the old NL5xHaze combination that inspired me to make the crosses that are featured in my collection. I felt as if the NL5 was just one color out of a rainbow of elite clone-only cultivars that we now have floating around California, and by putting ON Haze to it was kinda like applying a neon filter over a primary color, with the goal of making it brighter without losing its original tone. Original Haze is not the best smoke on its own, but it is magical when you breed it with other plants, as Sam the Skunkman often stated; “Haze makes everything else better”. My overall goal with my Haze projects is twofold: I am bringing Original Haze seeds to the market by reproducing them as an IBL in my greenhouse under the guidance of Sam the Skunkman. Second, I am looking to bring back high-energy and inspirational varieties of cannabis that perhaps take longer (10 to 13, as opposed to 8 to 10 weeks) to flower and have more of a morning coffee effect, rather than a sedative relaxing one. The over 60 varieties that I crossed with my male ON Haze plant represent a pretty full spectrum of the terpenes available in cannabis today. In the future, cannabis competitions will not be based on incorrect terminology such as Indica & sativa, but instead it will be based upon the highest expressed terpene tested on that plant. Meaning plants that are mostly yellow would be completing with other plants that are mostly yellow, and we would not be trying to compare black-and-white cannabis flowers when they were very different in the first place. Your favorite Haze combination will depend upon your favored terpene profile, which is why I created a range for all to try.