Purple Zamal x A5 Haze

[The Zientist]

Stem roots developing on all 5x PZA5.

I used to see this happening as well in my Destroyer cut.

 

[Piff_cat]

Here's the whole bunch before cleaning up:
View attachment 18809098
PZA5#1 View attachment 18809099

PZA5#2
View attachment 18809100

PZA5#3
View attachment 18809101
PZA5#4
View attachment 18809102

PZA5#5
View attachment 18809103

They're lush and vigorous. Cool plants.

i really like 4 and 5. several great traits- square stems with striped red/purple zylem, a woody base at the stem yellow sunken midrib hollow stems. a plants lignin production capabilities are directly coorelated to secondary metabolite profiles and potency. olivetol(half of recipe for cbga) is made by the phenol pathway. the phenol pathway also produces the monollignol precursors for lignin. even better is that increases in phenolpropanoid creation also results in more phytohormones like auxin leading to more vigorous growth and may be influencing those stem roots! beautiful ladies!

 

[Airloom]

@Piff_cat
Do you have any thoughts on HPS or CHL for a beginner growing indoor haze? I’m almost ready to take the plunge and now looking at the lighting. I’m currently using LED but analyzing the lighting isn’t necessarily a good thing for me.


I’ve got a 4x4 with my own light build going now and just flipped to flower
About 65 days I’ll be ready to pop seeds mas o menos
Current lighting is 44”x44” aluminum angle frame with 4HLG QB120 on the corners and 2HLG 288Rspec boards with sinks centered between the 120’s
All boards use same type driver (stock item not fully dimmable) and the 288’s are on a separate driver
Use the 120’s for veg then turn on the 288’s in flower

My first grow EVER was indoors 1980 or so 1000W metal halide on that state of the art ceiling motorized track thing if anyone used one of those….

Was my first solo home rental post USMC Off season non insulated summer cottage Spare room lined walls with Alcoa five gallon buckets of primo soil “borrowed” from local organic strawberry grower Ballast was huge Had ice issues with interior plumbing but the plants were toasty

Anyway I’m considering using some CMH after reading another thread here. Seems clear to me results are better so long as one doesn’t compare energy costs.

I’ve got another light with just 4 QB120’s on the corners I’m thinking I might modify or totally reconfigure

Have also finally bought and installed those meter readers for wall outlets to keep my side of the street clean re: HH energy costs.

Those things have silenced many disagreements whether it’s light boards, window AC units or 4K flat screen TV’s…..

Appreciate your deep knowledge on this plants genetics

 

[OZZ_]

Had

Hi @orangina,

Welcome to the thread and thanks for joining.
Took cuts of them all a week ago. Waiting for them to show roots so I can send them directly to 11/13.
It's been cold so probably there won't be any root tips just yet.

Exciting times, the wait has been long.

tZ

Had the same thing happen over here on my Zamaldelica clones since it was cold. Only the most tropical plants in my collection were cloning properly, things picked up after putting down a heat mat.

Still I just decided I’ll move forward with the seed plants themselves and just deal with the higher stretch, and take a second and third round of clones as these guys veg out

 

[The Zientist]

Had



Had the same thing happen over here on my Zamaldelica clones since it was cold. Only the most tropical plants in my collection were cloning properly, things picked up after putting down a heat mat.

Still I just decided I’ll move forward with the seed plants themselves and just deal with the higher stretch, and take a second and third round of clones as these guys veg out

Hey @OZZ_,

I noticed today, right when I was going to install an heatpad to speed things up, that all clones but one had ample root development!
Already opened the propagator vent so they adapt to a drier environment.

If tomorrow the one that's lagging behind doesn't show root tips, it seems like I'll be flowering only 4 straight. If that one decides to show roots meanwhile she'll join the party too.

Will be potting them very soon and sending them to flower.
tZ

 

[OZZ_]

Hey @OZZ_,

I noticed today, right when I was going to install an heatpad to speed things up, that all clones but one had ample root development!
Already opened the propagator vent so they adapt to a drier environment.

If tomorrow the one that's lagging behind doesn't show root tips, it seems like I'll be flowering only 4 straight. If that one decides to show roots meanwhile she'll join the party too.

Will be potting them very soon and sending them to flower.
tZ

Awesome!! Will be watching closely I really want to see how these turn out.

 

[Piff_cat]

@Piff_cat
Do you have any thoughts on HPS or CHL for a beginner growing indoor haze? I’m almost ready to take the plunge and now looking at the lighting. I’m currently using LED but analyzing the lighting isn’t necessarily a good thing for me.


I’ve got a 4x4 with my own light build going now and just flipped to flower
About 65 days I’ll be ready to pop seeds mas o menos
Current lighting is 44”x44” aluminum angle frame with 4HLG QB120 on the corners and 2HLG 288Rspec boards with sinks centered between the 120’s
All boards use same type driver (stock item not fully dimmable) and the 288’s are on a separate driver
Use the 120’s for veg then turn on the 288’s in flower

My first grow EVER was indoors 1980 or so 1000W metal halide on that state of the art ceiling motorized track thing if anyone used one of those….

Was my first solo home rental post USMC Off season non insulated summer cottage Spare room lined walls with Alcoa five gallon buckets of primo soil “borrowed” from local organic strawberry grower Ballast was huge Had ice issues with interior plumbing but the plants were toasty

Anyway I’m considering using some CMH after reading another thread here. Seems clear to me results are better so long as one doesn’t compare energy costs.

I’ve got another light with just 4 QB120’s on the corners I’m thinking I might modify or totally reconfigure

Have also finally bought and installed those meter readers for wall outlets to keep my side of the street clean re: HH energy costs.

Those things have silenced many disagreements whether it’s light boards, window AC units or 4K flat screen TV’s…..

Appreciate your deep knowledge on this plants genetics

thanks man i definitly believe that the extra blue light from a cmh or any source is helpful for haze keeping node growth closer blue is the only color the plants will "reach" for. when growing haze one element that becomes important is leaf surface temp and spectrum intensity.

many times they do better with less intense light around the perimeter which is why yo sammy starts his lights 3 feet away from ladies. the number 1 problem when growing haze is "shooters" stressed out tops which have absorbed too much nitrogen got too hot/dry which makes stomata close salt causes the EC to rise.
on the flip side, haze needs high infrared heat to get proper transpiration and also keep humidity levels stable. in my experience LED struggles in this area which is very important in flower. in veg leds seem to do a great job maybe better then hps. but when i ran led in a 4 x 8 tent i ended up needing a supplemental heater and even so did not get up to hps resin/yield levels.
my best case scenario is having a main source of red light(hps) and supplemental blue(cmh or reg medal halide) adding the blue absolutely makes a big difference keeping the ladies happy.
l33t a great haze grower uses a high kelvin metal halide these also put out more UV he gets great results.

doing well with a led/cmh combo is definitely possible. but after i dumped the led and swithced back to single ended HPS it was like an entirely different grow.
i use the single HPS bare bulbed and mounted horizontal. since haze grows tall have a reflector to run into turns size into a problem. by using the horizontal bare bulb the light shining from the sides and bouncing off the roof means the ladies can grow all the way to roof with no problems as long as fan is blowing over top of canopy.
the best growth rates for haze will come at 80 or so with 65 to 70 rh. the led alone makes this challenging especially when less transpiration puts less water in air leading to low humidity.

considerations-
1. red light
2.blue light
3. infrared heat
4. transpiration rate
5. spectrum shock/leaf temp shock
possible configs-
red/blue
1.hps/cmh
2.hps/led
3.led/cmh

highest transpiration rates
HPS
CMH
LED

spectrum shock least to most
1.led
2.cmh
3.hps

leaf surface temp
led- lowest
hps- highest
cmh-middle

not the best pic but this shows you the horizontal 600w hps set up running this 4 x 8. about 1.5 elbows a pull

these are mango haze x nevil haze by @l33t who is a big proponent of supplemental blue light see how these colas are like 3 feet!

https://www.icmag.com/media/71dayfbed-001-23.17666543/

one last point is the climate of grow location. drier open spaces with tents tend to be difficult to get humidity up which can be very bad for haze. but smaller rooms naturally damper may do better with led since there is less ambient air to heat and hold at temp. the ability to adjust spectrum intensity with an led is also very useful. there have been times when the side arm colas end up bigger then main tops if they are in the goldilocks zone for plants lighting intensity preferences. this is truly a case by case basis depending on phenotype but all haze has considerations for diffused light. hempy does a great job of this here in his 78 tia grow

hope that helps

 

[Airloom]

thanks man i definitly believe that the extra blue light from a cmh or any source is helpful for haze keeping node growth closer blue is the only color the plants will "reach" for. when growing haze one element that becomes important is leaf surface temp and spectrum intensity.

many times they do better with less intense light around the perimeter which is why yo sammy starts his lights 3 feet away from ladies. the number 1 problem when growing haze is "shooters" stressed out tops which have absorbed too much nitrogen got too hot/dry which makes stomata close salt causes the EC to rise.
on the flip side, haze needs high infrared heat to get proper transpiration and also keep humidity levels stable. in my experience LED struggles in this area which is very important in flower. in veg leds seem to do a great job maybe better then hps. but when i ran led in a 4 x 8 tent i ended up needing a supplemental heater and even so did not get up to hps resin/yield levels.
my best case scenario is having a main source of red light(hps) and supplemental blue(cmh or reg medal halide) adding the blue absolutely makes a big difference keeping the ladies happy.
l33t a great haze grower uses a high kelvin metal halide these also put out more UV he gets great results.

doing well with a led/cmh combo is definitely possible. but after i dumped the led and swithced back to single ended HPS it was like an entirely different grow.
i use the single HPS bare bulbed and mounted horizontal. since haze grows tall have a reflector to run into turns size into a problem. by using the horizontal bare bulb the light shining from the sides and bouncing off the roof means the ladies can grow all the way to roof with no problems as long as fan is blowing over top of canopy.
the best growth rates for haze will come at 80 or so with 65 to 70 rh. the led alone makes this challenging especially when less transpiration puts less water in air leading to low humidity.

considerations-
1. red light
2.blue light
3. infrared heat
4. transpiration rate
5. spectrum shock/leaf temp shock
possible configs-
red/blue
1.hps/cmh
2.hps/led
3.led/cmh

highest transpiration rates
HPS
CMH
LED

spectrum shock least to most
1.led
2.cmh
3.hps

leaf surface temp
led- lowest
hps- highest
cmh-middle
View attachment 18809887

not the best pic but this shows you the horizontal 600w hps set up running this 4 x 8. about 1.5 elbows a pull

these are mango haze x nevil haze by @l33t who is a big proponent of supplemental blue light see how these colas are like 3 feet!
View attachment 18809888

https://www.icmag.com/media/71dayfbed-001-23.17666543/

one last point is the climate of grow location. drier open spaces with tents tend to be difficult to get humidity up which can be very bad for haze. but smaller rooms naturally damper may do better with led since there is less ambient air to heat and hold at temp. the ability to adjust spectrum intensity with an led is also very useful. there have been times when the side arm colas end up bigger then main tops if they are in the goldilocks zone for plants lighting intensity preferences. this is truly a case by case basis depending on phenotype but all haze has considerations for diffused light. hempy does a great job of this here in his 78 tia grow
View attachment 18809889


hope that helps

Thank you @Piff_cat

Without offending or leaving out ANYONE I think your knowledgeable reply is like having Nevil or YoSammy or MadMac or dubi on speed dial

I’ve got time to digest it and make a plan

First time I flipped lights on some seedlings at 6/7th node in one gallon pots
Sort of a dry run

They’re a cross of C99 and GDP (my sister insisted she wanted any males I was gonna kill)

So I decided to pop a few seeds and see how they look. Every grow life intrudes and so much energy gets wasted on excess limbs and leaf.

Anyway thanks again I’ve gotta get cooking
(Brined wings and chicken breast) maybe some fresh fries as well
Recipe is from the pandemic era on NPR I think all music considered?

Chicken quarantine Meg Giuffrida

Spicy but just the thing for super Sunday

On to a commercial break……

 

[Piff_cat]

Thank you @Piff_cat

Without offending or leaving out ANYONE I think your knowledgeable reply is like having Nevil or YoSammy or MadMac or dubi on speed dial

I’ve got time to digest it and make a plan

First time I flipped lights on some seedlings at 6/7th node in one gallon pots
Sort of a dry run

They’re a cross of C99 and GDP (my sister insisted she wanted any males I was gonna kill)

So I decided to pop a few seeds and see how they look. Every grow life intrudes and so much energy gets wasted on excess limbs and leaf.

Anyway thanks again I’ve gotta get cooking
(Brined wings and chicken breast) maybe some fresh fries as well
Recipe is from the pandemic era on NPR I think all music considered?

Chicken quarantine Meg Giuffrida

Spicy but just the thing for super Sunday

On to a commercial break……

thank you man always happy to share the good word . passing on as much info for us self succificent home growers always a goal. there are so many great effects out there beyond the poly hybrid. to have access to these classic nevil haze lines seemed impossible just a few years ago. these types are what ive been chasing ever since first grow. ace karma yo sammy getting a5 and piffcoast with the piff have done a huge service to the community by getting this genetics out to us!
hope i didnt hijack your thread @The Zientist

 

[The Zientist]

It's repot day and the light regime has been switched to 11/13, finally!

The clones have ample root development and should adapt well to their new environment.

The plan is to let them flower for 30-40days in 2L pots to constrain their roots and vertical growth.
As soon as they are done with most of their pre/early-flowering stretch, they will be repotted in 6-10L pots, with a slightly more amended soil that also includes guano.

For this cycle, gathering some of the first hand knowledge out of growing A5 S1 recently, I've decided to go lighter on amending the soil mix prior to repotting a second time. This is roughly based on Coot's mix/Build a Soil adaptation, and comprises a blend of:
-Rice hulls
-Vermiculite
-Neem cake
-Kelp meal
-Basalt rock dust
-Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate)
-Calcium Carbonate
-Mycorrhizae

The setup this cycle will take place in is 60x60x160cm in size and the LED panel is Lumatek Attis 200w.
As for specifics regarding growing parameters, I will go through that later on.
For now the panel is running at 20% for the first couple of days to allow them to settle in their new environment and then I'll take PPFD readings and adjust it accordingly.

I appreciate you all for joining in and sharing your thoughts!
tZ

 

[The Zientist]

There's no problem @Piff_cat. Quite the contrary.
Please feel free to share your experience with these types. They sure have particular growing conditions if you want to have them fully dialed in.

For a long time I've wanted to grow true A5 progeny. After trying several remarkable plants in Amsterdam many years ago and having grown and access to hazey hybrids throughout the years, trying Nevil's selections and having them combined with such high grade selections is surely an accomplishment.
I'm thankful to everyone involved in both making them accessible and having them reach me. @dubi @Yo Sammy @Karma G @Oldman Green

 

[Airloom]

There's no problem @Piff_cat. Quite the contrary.
Please feel free to share your experience with these types. They sure have particular growing conditions if you want to have them fully dialed in.

For a long time I've wanted to grow true A5 progeny. After trying several remarkable plants in Amsterdam many years ago and having grown and access to hazey hybrids throughout the years, trying Nevil's selections and having them combined with such high grade selections is surely an accomplishment.
I'm thankful to everyone involved in both making them accessible and having them reach me. @dubi @Yo Sammy @Karma G @Oldman Green

I love this thread and everyone weighing in with insights for those of new to growing haze (moi)

I cannot wait to finish these hybrids I’ve got going now. I am so looking forward to growing something special. If I get the hang of this I’ve got a two story barn with 10’ ceilings I could renovate……
Thanks @The Zientist for the soil info
I’ve gotten the Haze itch bad
I’ve had good results with BAS living soil which is a modded Coots blend I think
I’ve also got a BAS kit waiting to be mixed pretty soon for my next crop (Haze only)

 

[The Zientist]

D10 - 11/13

They've started recovering from the stress induced by the the abrupt transition from the dome propagator to the flowering chamber, and are showing new and lush growth.

Led intensity increased from 40 to 60%. They were under 220 umol/m2/s. I'll take new readings soon.

Temps are ranging from 24 to 20ºC.

 

[OZZ_]

Excellent!! Off to a great start! Let the games begin!!!

 

[The Zientist]

Excellent!! Off to a great start! Let the games begin!!!

They are dialled in and have tripled in size by now.

Explosive growth and vigor.

 

[OZZ_]

They are dialled in and have tripled in size by now.

Explosive growth and vigor.

Don’t be shy on the updates my man I know the forums aren’t extremely active these days but I for one would love to see their development and I’m sure others would as well. This is one badass cross!

 

[orangina]

I for one would love to see their development

me too! I have the Purple Zamal x Panama in flower and the Purple Zamal x A5 Haze in veg. The Zamal brings plenty of vigor.

 

[OZZ_]

me too! I have the Purple Zamal x Panama in flower and the Purple Zamal x A5 Haze in veg. The Zamal brings plenty of vigor.

Those sound excellent as well!

 

[The Zientist]

Don’t be shy on the updates my man I know the forums aren’t extremely active these days but I for one would love to see their development and I’m sure others would as well. This is one badass cross!

Nice to see you engaging bud @OZZ_.

I will be updating them very soon. Their internodes are getting crazy as expected and the first pre-flowers already showing up. When actual inflorescences start forming I will keep you fed! In approx. 12065 days due to that wild Zamal!
We can see that #5 shows leaf wrinkles, it's the only one doing it at the moment. I think it's just a quirk, a mutation if you will. Doesn't seem to be holding her back in any way. A5 progeny thing, I suppose.

I don't mind the forums being less chaotic in transit. There are good peeps and I get joy from sharing my passion with likeminded individuals. I will keep posting, even if most just lurk. I'm a huge lurker myself. It's way better having you guys around and a mutual exchange, of course.

Hey @orangina, looking forward to see yours too. Best of luck with them, remember to be very light when feeding.
As my substrate is pre-amended before planting, I'll be giving them water only for a long time it seems. I've noticed that they got their leaf tips a bit burnt, a post-repotting stress, but are now used to it seems. After a month or so should be time to repot them again with fresh soil, and the same fashion of water only should continue for a long while.
Hope I can manage to tame their stretch a bit doing so, if not enough I will resort to apical topping after they've grown some more.

Thanks for the kindness!
tZ

 

[Common Sense]

so many interesting sativa crosses in the ace R&D section this year! This is one of the most interesting in my opinion, so I hope you guys don't mind if I pull up a chair. Purple Zamal x Bangi Haze also sounds like a great cross. The search only shows one short thread on that from a while ago. It would be interesting to compare the two.