Pure ZHO extraction solvent

[Loc Dog]

Understood. At this point, merely being up late at night is enough to fog my mind more than drugs and alcohol ever did when I was a teen.

From the start of organic chemistry classes, students are told of the dangers of peroxides in ethers, notably THF, DIPE, and diethyl ether. It's natural for all chemists even PhD's to think that all ethers form peroxides, though I'd expect a PhD to be cautious in saying specifically that DME is included.

A quote on peroxidizability, right after trashing safety officers
http://www.bnl.gov/esh/cms/PDF/peroxides.pdf

The auto-peroxidation potential of a compound is greatly influenced by adjacent and nearby functional groups. These relationships were first reported by Jackson et al (6) and subsequently refined by other authors (3, 15, 16, 22). Peroxide-forming compounds invariably contain an autooxidizable hydrogen atom that is activated by adjacent structural components and/or actinic radiation (not necessarily continuous). These compounds react with atmospheric oxygen under ambient conditions to initially form a hydroperoxide (3). Initially, the autocatalytic reaction proceeds very slowly, then the rate gradually increases to a maximum velocity.
Activated hydrogen atoms are often on a:
v Methylene group adjacent to an ethereal oxygen atom (-O-CH2-, e.g. diethyl ether, THF, dioxane, diglyme).
v Methylene group adjacent to a vinyl group or benzene ring (C=C-CH2- or Ph-CH2-, e.g. allyl or benzyl compounds).
v CH group adjacent to two ethereal oxygen atoms (-O-CH-O-, e.g. acetals or methylenedioxy compounds).
v CH group adjacent to two methylene groups (-CH2-CH-CH2-, e.g. isopropyl compounds and decahydronaphthalenes).
v CH group between a benzene ring and a methylene group (-CH2-CH-Ph, e.g. cumene and tetrahydronaphthalenes).
v A vinyl group (-C=CH2, e.g. vinyl compounds, dienes, styrenes or other monomers)

We are not chemists, so that is verbal diarrhea. We read MSDS, which states it is DANGEROUS. Will you accept liability for your recommendation? Or are you like Dr Z, who will skip country when something goes wrong.

Couldn't you be happy with flow through market, where there is no problem????????????

NRN

YOUR ARTICLE PROVES MY POINT, if read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not want to be rude, but can not see why you would recommend something so sketchy. Their premier product was poison (known cancer causer), and not sold anymore.

Dupont said it causes peroxides!!!! You claim to know more than them?????????????????

It will be safe for one year, in sealed containers, not exposed to water, air, heat , distillation, UV light.

My only vested interest is helping the great people of ICMAG, which have helped my so much, out of the kindness of their hearts. The people I know here, are better than the friends I have in real life.

 

[Loc Dog]

What happened to pure ZHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can they be trusted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Loc Dog]

This is one category, where peoples recommendations should be accountable.

I know GW is pissed off at idiots blowing themselves up, and how it effects the perception of the community. Not his words, but mine.

BE SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Loc Dog]

Rollitup and tokecity laughed this off, 2 months ago.

I only want the best for the community!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Better safe, than sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All my friends, Be Well!!!!!!!

 

[Loc Dog]

Also bieber, who I have never heard. Corners the little girl market. He will not endanger their lives.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Understood. At this point, merely being up late at night is enough to fog my mind more than drugs and alcohol ever did when I was a teen.

From the start of organic chemistry classes, students are told of the dangers of peroxides in ethers, notably THF, DIPE, and diethyl ether. It's natural for all chemists even PhD's to think that all ethers form peroxides, though I'd expect a PhD to be cautious in saying specifically that DME is included.

A quote on peroxidizability, right after trashing safety officers
http://www.bnl.gov/esh/cms/PDF/peroxides.pdf

The auto-peroxidation potential of a compound is greatly influenced by adjacent and nearby functional groups. These relationships were first reported by Jackson et al (6) and subsequently refined by other authors (3, 15, 16, 22). Peroxide-forming compounds invariably contain an autooxidizable hydrogen atom that is activated by adjacent structural components and/or actinic radiation (not necessarily continuous). These compounds react with atmospheric oxygen under ambient conditions to initially form a hydroperoxide (3). Initially, the autocatalytic reaction proceeds very slowly, then the rate gradually increases to a maximum velocity.
Activated hydrogen atoms are often on a:
v Methylene group adjacent to an ethereal oxygen atom (-O-CH2-, e.g. diethyl ether, THF, dioxane, diglyme).
v Methylene group adjacent to a vinyl group or benzene ring (C=C-CH2- or Ph-CH2-, e.g. allyl or benzyl compounds).
v CH group adjacent to two ethereal oxygen atoms (-O-CH-O-, e.g. acetals or methylenedioxy compounds).
v CH group adjacent to two methylene groups (-CH2-CH-CH2-, e.g. isopropyl compounds and decahydronaphthalenes).
v CH group between a benzene ring and a methylene group (-CH2-CH-Ph, e.g. cumene and tetrahydronaphthalenes).
v A vinyl group (-C=CH2, e.g. vinyl compounds, dienes, styrenes or other monomers)

No organic chemistry PhD heah, just a tattered and superannuated engineering program manager, whom consults with brothers and sisters in their accredited fields when I get over mah pointy ears.

My middle aged PhD lab director said that Dimethyl Ether does form peroxides, which everyone appears to agree on.

Not sure what the range of disagreement is on how much, and how serious a problem it is.???

My PhD resource said it was not a major peroxide former, but did share a supportive link that looks as if it may contain a typo as GOJoe suggests, because it doesn't include Diethyl ether and other similar lists presented do, but exclude Dimethyl in that slot.

I will run it back by him for a response and any other links he would like to share.

Sorry Sky, I didn't read your link requiring ACS membership or $35 to open. Could you summarize?

 

[RoadRash]

There are a lot of good extraction techniques.

Perhaps it should be taught in school.


Personally, I am biased. When I started smoking pot, there was no visible resin. Then sometime in the 1980's, I saw visible resin.

At first it was trichomes on top of the leaf.

Then, the top and the bottom.

Now, it's the top, bottom, side, stems, petioles, leaves, etc.

Personally I feel no need to concentrate that. But I understand wanting to make good use of the leaves & trim, e.g. in a tumbler, for smoke and for edibles.


I wonder if 'just smoking buds' will ever be considered "old-school", like, "that's so 20th century" or something.

 

[SkyHighLer]

Not the best URL.



Why don't you ask to find an article that definitively says that THC doesn't make pigs fly? Or, why don't you find an article in a chemistry journal saying how peroxide is found in DME? None of the MSDS claims give references.



You are talking about the List B on page 2. Dimethyl ether, and later on, methyl ether is listed on it, and then it's never mentioned again. But diethyl ether (ethyl ether) is not on list A, B, or C - it's the most common peroxide former. See something wrong with this picture? A chemist would. Go to page 4 - it's the five type A chemicals from list A. Go to page 5 for the type B. Diethyl ether is there now, and DME is not. Then page 6 has the C's. Can you guess what's going on there?

The Handbook of Reactive Chemical Hazards is mentioned in it, which I have (7th edition 2007) and did look up DME. There is no hazard listed for it, none at all. It is not listed later in the ethers section (which is about peroxides), the peroxides in solvents section, nor is it in the peroxidisable compounds - at least 24 of 79 are ethers - section in the book either, which gives among other references the same Journal of Chemical Education articles as your obviously wrong pdf. Any more bad references for me to waste time on?

Oxygen and light is more likely to react with the things being extracted than the solvent period.

I feel bad about not including the extra 3 on isobutane last night. Oops. (CH3)3CH.

And you are wrong. I tried to explain why you're wrong about that pdf in a way you could understand, but instead of you understanding, Crooked8 negrepped me for saying so, thinking it was obvious you understood I guess. He did get me thinking - are you two pals or is neg rep at the drop of a hat in the name of righteousness just his MO? Here's another opportunity.
ITS A TYPO
GO TO PAGE 5
DIMETHYL ETHER IS NOW DIETHYL ETHER, WHICH WASN'T ON PAGE 2



In a desperate measure to find something that backs up however many dozens of posts on this you have now, you are finding every typo on the internet. It's diethylene glycol dimethyl ether, one line. one chemical. I think that trips up MSDS writers too. This is why there are references, because people don't get things right. Go to the very bottom of that page where they give their reference:

R.J. Kelly, "Review of Safety Guidelines for peroxide-forming Organic Chemicals", Chemical Health & Safety, September/October 1996, pp 28-36.

Here it is
http://www-ehs.ucsd.edu/lab/pdf/kelly_peroxides.pdf

DME is not listed anywhere. Not even in the long list of section D "chemicals that may form peroxides". It's a good reference, anyone wanting a good review of the subject should check it out.

No organic chemistry PhD heah, just a tattered and superannuated engineering program manager, whom consults with brothers and sisters in their accredited fields when I get over mah pointy ears.

My middle aged PhD lab director said that Dimethyl Ether does form peroxides, which everyone appears to agree on.

Not sure what the range of disagreement is on how much, and how serious a problem it is.???

My PhD resource said it was not a major peroxide former, but did share a supportive link that looks as if it may contain a typo as GOJoe suggests, because it doesn't include Diethyl ether and other similar lists presented do, but exclude Dimethyl in that slot.

I will run it back by him for a response and any other links he would like to share.

Sorry Sky, I didn't read your link requiring ACS membership or $35 to open. Could you summarize?

Thanks GW, please link your authority to the past several posts by G.O. Joe, this comment in particular should give major pause,

"The Handbook of Reactive Chemical Hazards is mentioned in it, which I have (7th edition 2007) and did look up DME. There is no hazard listed for it, none at all. It is not listed later in the ethers section (which is about peroxides), the peroxides in solvents section, nor is it in the peroxidisable compounds - at least 24 of 79 are ethers - section in the book either, which gives among other references the same Journal of Chemical Education articles as your obviously wrong pdf."

One you youngsters with a college library password should be able to access the 1988 paper Wray said was used to add additional peroxide formers to his list. Please post up if you find anything. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ed065pA226

Looks to me there's either an error that crept into the republishing of the lists or someone discovered new evidence of peroxide formation with dimethyl ether, but the who, what, when, where, how, and why remains hidden to us...

 

[G.O. Joe]

Do you have access at ACS? Here's the 1988 reference, http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ed065pA226

An abstract says: Recounts a high school chemistry lab explosion while distilling alcohols. Proposes peroxide formation in older samples of alcohols as the cause. Lists commonly found laboratory alcohols and their peroxide concentrations. Discusses methodology for both detecting and removing peroxides.
It's referenced in Bretherick, that's all I have, except for the 1970 Control of Peroxidizable Compounds article from libgen that's the origin of all these A,B, and C lists.

that is verbal diarrhea.

I already know where you stand on verbal diarrhea, thanks. The reaction with air is certainly cause for concern - but it's when flame, static, sparks are present.

Page 6 Stability section. By Dupont (you must know better than them) -

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=JCxWW4KdYqPYn-tozcueqQ&bvm=bv.65058239,d.cWc

There was a term in early PC days, called "Bleeding Edge Technology", meaning you would get cut, as early adopters.

Page 4 Stability-

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=pPvxoyxcqERi7Z8y1upDhw&bvm=bv.65058239,d.cWc

Page 4 and 5 -


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=e3hZFB1EyIv9v9sOjqYsuQ&bvm=bv.65058239,d.cWc

Page 4, section 10
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=PHA24rVG_k5RnPygTrQCug&bvm=bv.65058239,d.cWc

You have burden of proof! Only get hearsay.

Dupont said it causes peroxides!!!! You claim to know more than them?????????????????

You take the word of DuPont, eh? OK! They happen to be the authors of the Control of Peroxidizable Chemicals article I just mentioned. DME isn't listed. There's the Dymel A reference that SkyHighLer posted.
http://www2.dupont.com/Dymel_Propellants/en_US/assets/downloads/h00250_Dymel_A.pdf
Dymel® A is a chemically stable compound which reacts or decomposes only under rather severe conditions. In aqueous solutions, the propellant is hydrolytically stable over a wide pH range.

Dymel® A does not form peroxides under conditions normally encountered in the aerosol industry. Dymel® A in the pure state or in formulations formed no detectable peroxide in six months storage tests at 104°F (40°C). Aerosol packages filled with Dymel® A in the pure state or with Dymel® A and compressed air up to 75 psig (5.2 bar) formed no detectable peroxide.

Here's even more from DuPont.
http://www.dupont.com/content/dam/a...nts/Dimethyl Ether Product Safety Summary.pdf
Dimethyl ether is a colorless gas with high water solubility, high vapor pressure, a boiling point of -24.8°C and a melting point of -141.5°C. Dimethyl ether is stable but is extremely flammable and may form potentially explosive mixtures with air, but will not form potentially explosive peroxides.

 

[SkyHighLer]

"Dimethyl ether is a colorless gas with high water solubility, high vapor pressure, a boiling point of -24.8°C and a melting point of -141.5°C. Dimethyl ether is stable but is extremely flammable and may form potentially explosive mixtures with air, but will not form potentially explosive peroxides."

Hopefully a working link,
http://www.dupont.com/content/dam/a...nts/Dimethyl Ether Product Safety Summary.pdf

 

[G.O. Joe]

Thanks, should have checked the link, just fixed it. Correcting usually has to be done when I "go advanced".

 

[SkyHighLer]

Is Bretherick's available online for free? I'm there now trying to access it, seems to be just what would be necessary to make the case.

 

[G.O. Joe]

Is Bretherick's available online for free?

Everything at libgen is free and you have a choice of editions. You could check nearest library access for that journal at http://www.worldcat.org/

That reference is cited in the isopropanol entry in Bretherick's, #1276 of the seventh edition.

 

[SkyHighLer]

Took a couple of minutes to download the whole two volumes of the 2007 edition, you made your wings...

Here's a link to the AP 2007 edition,
http://libgen.org/book/index.php?md5=9c778d04228d43692d5149daa59d46cb&open=0

Takes awhile to find the various pertinent topics in Volume 2, but this seems to be a staunch reference.

 

[Loc Dog]

You obviously have vested interest in product. No one that would buy it has weighed in.

Will not post again, hopefully, unless more unsubstantiated, life endangering comments.

Go back and refute each o f my posts from yesterday, starting with Dupont, which knows less than them. Just do google search, Dimethyl ether MSDS. Diethyl ether is more prevelant problem, but Dimethyl is also, alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More often problem with glycols. This is when exposed to air, and moisture, and used in recycler.

 

[Loc Dog]

No organic chemistry PhD heah, just a tattered and superannuated engineering program manager, whom consults with brothers and sisters in their accredited fields when I get over mah pointy ears.

My middle aged PhD lab director said that Dimethyl Ether does form peroxides, which everyone appears to agree on.

Not sure what the range of disagreement is on how much, and how serious a problem it is.???

My PhD resource said it was not a major peroxide former, but did share a supportive link that looks as if it may contain a typo as GOJoe suggests, because it doesn't include Diethyl ether and other similar lists presented do, but exclude Dimethyl in that slot.

I will run it back by him for a response and any other links he would like to share.

Sorry Sky, I didn't read your link requiring ACS membership or $35 to open. Could you summarize?

Page 11, proves my point, "Hazardous level of organic peroxides".
DME is class B.

We had expression in 1980's. RTRFM. Refusal to read the f'ing manual!!

Only shows, one article. Can find many wrong articles on internet. Show 10. I have not seen 2. Diethyl ether and DME with glycols are way worse, but DME is listed by many major companies, universities, and state agencies, are dangerous.

http://www.bnl.gov/esh/cms/PDF/peroxides.pdf

I suggest someone using in recycler, and testing for peroxides, for 6 months to a year. No one would trust those proposing with no credibility.

Why does no one reply to Pure ZHO, which was cancerous, and disappeared, and hocked by current proponents.

Sorry, but I do not want anyone hurt by the greedy.

GW is friend, but all comments are my own. If I offend anyone sorry, but have interest of the masses, in mind.

ZHO must be f'ed having to dump all pureZHO.

If you agree, send me message, and avoid attracting attention here.

Just google "dimethyl ether MSDS". Diethyl, and dimethyl with glycols will show up. Sort through to the many correct ones, like I have.

I see no follower's at this point. Have met many senior members that have thanked me.

Will not post again. Live with yourselves, if you can. Let this untested garbage fail. Would have recommended for pass through, but not any more.

 

[SkyHighLer]

I spent the first ten years of my life in what is now called "South Central," 108th street, between Western and Denker. What's your problem homie? It's like you're not even taking the time to check out G.O. Joe's references...

"Why does no one reply to Pure ZHO, which was cancerous, and disappeared, and hocked by current proponents.

Sorry, but I do not want anyone hurt by the greedy.

ZHO must be f'ed having to dump all pureZHO."

If you don't know that's not true, or think you're fooling anyone with a brain with such BS, indicates the level of your ethics. There are libel laws...

"Have met many senior members that have thanked me." That no one's giving you the thumbs up by clicking "Did you find this post helpful?" on your posts refutes that...

I have zero vested interest in the company PureZHO, this is on my dime so I have no patience for trash talk at this point.

Bretherick's Handbook of Reactive Chemicals is the staunchest of any reference presented, and according to it, dimethyl ether doesn't form dangerous peroxides.

Dupont,
"Aerosol packages filled with Dymel® A in the pure state or with Dymel® A and compressed air up to 75 psig (5.2 bar) formed no detectable peroxide."

http://www2.dupont.com/Dymel_Propellants/en_US/assets/downloads/h00250_Dymel_A.pdf

 

[Gray Wolf]

Sooo, I asked my Anonymous Expert A to review the thread and provide feedback, supplied him with a link to page 16 and got the following:

This morning, I answered with a request to specifically review and comment on any issues covered in post 228, page 16. More when I hear back.

JD,

I didn’t read through all the postings. As I noted before, DME is not considered to be peroxide forming during normal storage processes, although at high temps or catalytic materials, peroxides could be formed. Long term storage, elevated temps, or other non-normal storage could cause peroxides to form.

For compressed gas storage it’s stable for at least a year at normal temps.

We should have more information in the next year or two, as it’s being considered for gas type fuels for some uses, and more research is being performed on where/when it might become unstable.

 

[Pangea]

I've recently heard some folks across the pond are using DME.

Anyone have any updates or results? Sorry if there is a more up to date thread, google brought me here.

 

[SkyHighLer]

Terpp Extractors has agreed to do CLS testing with MZ12X. Rather than wait for complementary cases from Pure ZHO I bought a couple, $120 out of my pocket, just to see this through.

Weirdest thing, Dr Z (Sang Kim) called me just as I was beginning to compose this post, he's looking for a new partner... well in a couple of weeks he may have some really staunch offers.

Just a guess, but dimethyl ether may be more free flowing at deep sub zero temps than butane...

My sincere thanks to Austin at Terpp Extractors!

Another pic of Austin and myself at the HT CC.