Grower4life
Member
,
Pure ZHO extraction solvent
- Thread starter SkyHighLer
- Start date
Doesn't seem to take more skill than with butane to get a decent amber oil extract, even these damn fools that would put up yet another video showing indoor extraction got gold,
http://youtu.be/QbWaCVQYp8o
Doctor Z just sent me the link to that video, and I was told Graywolf's getting a master case of MZ12X to test out.
http://youtu.be/QbWaCVQYp8o
Doctor Z just sent me the link to that video, and I was told Graywolf's getting a master case of MZ12X to test out.
Not the best URL.
Why don't you ask to find an article that definitively says that THC doesn't make pigs fly? Or, why don't you find an article in a chemistry journal saying how peroxide is found in DME? None of the MSDS claims give references.
You are talking about the List B on page 2. Dimethyl ether, and later on, methyl ether is listed on it, and then it's never mentioned again. But diethyl ether (ethyl ether) is not on list A, B, or C - it's the most common peroxide former. See something wrong with this picture? A chemist would. Go to page 4 - it's the five type A chemicals from list A. Go to page 5 for the type B. Diethyl ether is there now, and DME is not. Then page 6 has the C's. Can you guess what's going on there?
The Handbook of Reactive Chemical Hazards is mentioned in it, which I have (7th edition 2007) and did look up DME. There is no hazard listed for it, none at all. It is not listed later in the ethers section (which is about peroxides), the peroxides in solvents section, nor is it in the peroxidisable compounds - at least 24 of 79 are ethers - section in the book either, which gives among other references the same Journal of Chemical Education articles as your obviously wrong pdf. Any more bad references for me to waste time on?
Oxygen and light is more likely to react with the things being extracted than the solvent period.
I feel bad about not including the extra 3 on isobutane last night. Oops. (CH3)3CH.
Why do you have to be so rude? You know whats nice? Someone who can do what you just did without the condescending tone and the I'm better than you attitude. Ease up man.
Ha.
On the subject on peroxides and peroxidizable hydrogen, someone may wonder about the CH on isopropanol (CH3)2CHOH - it does form the hydroperoxide, (CH3)2C(OH)OOH. But no one has made a big deal of QWISO, everyone loves it, even though peroxides can be detected in it and this has caused lab explosions. The subject of distilling it has never come up here, so it's a moot point. But it's another example of something more readily peroxidizable than DME. In air and light there could possibly be some radical chemistry and reactions with QWISO extract components, that would not be going on so much in butane.
PLEASE LET ME BE WRONG!!!!!
But I spent over 12 hours researching peroxide problem, in recyclers, if solvent is evaporated or distilled, over and over in presence of water and air. One time will not do it, as in storage tank of common consumer.
But I spent over 12 hours researching peroxide problem, in recyclers, if solvent is evaporated or distilled, over and over in presence of water and air. One time will not do it, as in storage tank of common consumer.
I'm sure if an extractor manufacturer with some distance from cannabis (like Tamisium used to be) would send a serious inquiry to Dupont concerning possible use of their dimethyl ether in a closed loop extraction system, all safety concerns would come up before they'd ok an order. They'd probably even want to come out and inspect your handling and storage procedures to cover their asses... ;-) A lot of hassle and put on, but you'd have an answer you should be able to bet your life on without having to do testing yourself.
Anyone that thinks I am wrong, read this, or risk your, and other lives
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncsu.edu%2Fehs%2Fwww99%2Fright%2FhandsMan%2Flab%2FPeroxide.pdf&ei=uMBNU6qrPPK-sQT_yICoCQ&usg=AFQjCNEkujPUaUoGStIcz3Jv0seaDNmHSA&sig2=hx9vrqPD3Ab2oZsJXM0g3g&bvm=bv.64764171,d.cWc
Any reputable University says basically the same thing.
This is North Carolina State University.
Page 2, last paragraph states it should not be used, when new, without first testing for peroxides, since time alone can cause them. Page 1, says it should not be exposed to Oxygen.
Before pontificating about a dangerous subject, be sure you are right!!!!
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncsu.edu%2Fehs%2Fwww99%2Fright%2FhandsMan%2Flab%2FPeroxide.pdf&ei=uMBNU6qrPPK-sQT_yICoCQ&usg=AFQjCNEkujPUaUoGStIcz3Jv0seaDNmHSA&sig2=hx9vrqPD3Ab2oZsJXM0g3g&bvm=bv.64764171,d.cWc
Any reputable University says basically the same thing.
This is North Carolina State University.
Page 2, last paragraph states it should not be used, when new, without first testing for peroxides, since time alone can cause them. Page 1, says it should not be exposed to Oxygen.
Before pontificating about a dangerous subject, be sure you are right!!!!
Last edited:
Please stop using the phrase BHO TARD...
Instead, please use BHO STARD.
The word” retard” to insult somebody is not cool, and it never will be.
Don't want to start any trouble..
But, thatcan be quite offensive to those of us that have mental illness or family with mental illness..
Stupid fuckers that blast indoors, are just stupid fuckers...
Lets not insult mentally handicapped persons by putting them in the same category.
My apologies if I sound cheesy, but please find a different phrase to use, like BHO-STARD (like a bastard)
Instead, please use BHO STARD.
The word” retard” to insult somebody is not cool, and it never will be.
Don't want to start any trouble..
But, thatcan be quite offensive to those of us that have mental illness or family with mental illness..
Stupid fuckers that blast indoors, are just stupid fuckers...
Lets not insult mentally handicapped persons by putting them in the same category.
My apologies if I sound cheesy, but please find a different phrase to use, like BHO-STARD (like a bastard)
I apologize!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Saw that in an article about people blowing themselves up.
I have never used the term retard, to describe a mentally challenged, handicapable person. I use it for people who should know better.
Was concerned I would by banned for calling them stupid MF'ers.
Will not use it again!!!!
This is from Vanderbilt University -
http://www.safety.vanderbilt.edu/chem/peroxide-forming-chemicals.php
Peroxide Forming Chemicals: Management, Retention and Storage
See also the Managing Chemical Retention and Storage and Managing Particularly Hazardous Substances factsheets.
print version of this document
Hazards of Peroxides
A wide variety of organic compounds spontaneously form peroxides by a free radical reaction of the hydrocarbon with molecular oxygen. Under normal storage conditions, formed peroxides can accumulate in the chemical container and may explode when subjected to heat, friction or mechanical shock. For this reason, it is imperative that laboratories learn to recognize and safely handle peroxide-forming compounds.
Practices for Control of Peroxide Forming Materials
Purchase
Ideally, purchases of peroxide-forming chemicals should be restricted to ensure that these chemicals are used up completely before they can become peroxidized. This requires careful experiment planning. Researchers should purchase no more material than is needed to complete an experiment within the chemical’s safe shelf life.
Labeling and Shelf-Life Limitation
Peroxides tend to form in materials as a function of age. Therefore, it is imperative that researchers are keenly aware of the age of their peroxide-forming chemicals. Researchers must date each container upon arrival in the laboratory. Containers must be dated again when opened for the first time. An appropriate expiration date based on what type of peroxide susceptible chemical the item is should also be on the label. Track dates and dispose of items through VEHS prior to expiration.
Storage
Peroxide-forming chemicals shall be stored in sealed, air-impermeable, light-resistant containers and should be kept away from light (light can initiate peroxide formation). Peroxide-forming chemicals should be stored in their original manufacturer’s container whenever possible. This is very important in the case of diethyl ether because the iron in the steel containers that the material is shipped in acts as a peroxide inhibitor.
Inhibitors
Many methods can be used to stabilize or inhibit the peroxidation of susceptible chemicals. If it does not interfere with the use of the chemical and if available, peroxide-forming chemicals shall be ordered with inhibitor added and peroxide scavengers (inhibitors) shall be added in small quantities to items that have been redistilled. Contact VEHS at 322-2057 if the peroxide scavenger interferes with the use of the susceptible chemical.
Management and disposal of old containers
Older containers of peroxide-forming chemicals, or containers of unknown age or history, must be handled very carefully and should never be opened by researchers. Any peroxide-forming chemical with visible discoloration, crystallization or liquid stratification should be treated as potentially explosive. Older steel containers that have visible rust may also be extremely dangerous. If any of these conditions are observed on a peroxide-forming chemical container or if the origin and age are unknown, do not attempt to move or open the container. Contact VEHS at 2-2057 to have the container inspected and if necessary disposed of properly.
Safe Distillation of Peroxide Forming Chemicals
Eliminate the peroxides with a chemical reducing agent or pass the solvent through activated alumina.
Adding mineral oil to the distillation pot has the combined effect of “cushioning” any bumping, maintaining dilution, and serving as a viscous reaction moderator in case the peroxides begin to decompose. Carefully monitor the distillation process to ensure that it does not dry out completely, and then overheat. Distillation can concentrate peroxides, especially if taken to a dry state. Peroxides will be present mainly in the still bottoms.
Small pieces of sodium metal can be added to the distillation vessel to reduce peroxides. Use benzophenone as an indicator for the presence of sodium metal (benzophenone in the presence of sodium metal forms a radical with a deep-blue color). When the blue color disappears, add more sodium metal to the vessel.
Classification of Peroxide Forming Materials
Chemicals that form peroxides are classified into four classes:
Class A: Peroxide Hazard on Storage – Without Concentration
These chemicals can form peroxides that are difficult to detect and eliminate. Label these items with a date of receipt and date of opening and dispose of these items 3 months after opening or 12 months if unopened.
Class B: Hazard Due to Peroxide Concentration
These chemicals can undergo explosive polymerization initiated by dissolved oxygen. Label these items with a date of receipt and date of opening and dispose of these items 6 months after opening or 12 months if unopened. When alcohols listed are used for purposes that do not involve heating, chemical reaction, bulk evaporation or other activities that may stress the peroxidizable material, it is not necessary to track and test these containers for peroxidation.
Class C: Auto Polymerize as a Result of Peroxide Accumulation
These chemicals may explode when relatively small quantities of peroxides are formed. These items normally have an inhibitor (scavenger) added to the substance by the manufacturer in order to prevent peroxides from forming. This inhibitor can be removed if it interferes with the use of the chemical or the chemical is redistilled in the lab. If a lab procedure requires the use of an uninhibited item in this Class, please contact VEHS at 322-2057. Label these items with a date of receipt and date of opening and dispose of inhibited items after 12 months and uninhibited items within 24 hours of use.
Class D: May Form Peroxides
These chemicals have the potential to form peroxides with varying conditions of use but are normally stable. Consult the manufacturer’s MSDS to determine when peroxide formation is expected and label accordingly
Common chemicals that form explosive levels of peroxides (this list is not inclusive)
Class A: Peroxide Hazard on Storage – Without Concentrationa
Butadienec
Vinylidene chloride
Chloroprened
Tetrafluoroethylene
Methacrylate
Divinyl acetylene
Class B: Hazard Due to Peroxide Concentration
Acetal
Acetaldehyde
Benzyl alcohol
Isopropyl ether
Cyclohexanol
2-cyclohexen-1-ol
Cumene
Decahydronaphthalene
Diacetylene
Dicyclopentadiene
Diethyl ether
Diethylene glycol
Dimethyl ether
Dioxanes
Ethylene glycol dimethyl ether
4-heptanol
Methyl acetylene
Methyl isobutyl ketone
3-methyl-1 butanol
Methyl cyclopentane
2-pentanol
4-penten-1-ol
1-phenylethanol
2-phenylethanol
2-propanol (isoproranol, “IPA”)
Tetrahydrofuran
Tetrahydronaphthalene
Vinyl ethers
Other secondary alcohols
http://www.safety.vanderbilt.edu/chem/peroxide-forming-chemicals.php
Peroxide Forming Chemicals: Management, Retention and Storage
See also the Managing Chemical Retention and Storage and Managing Particularly Hazardous Substances factsheets.
print version of this document
Hazards of Peroxides
A wide variety of organic compounds spontaneously form peroxides by a free radical reaction of the hydrocarbon with molecular oxygen. Under normal storage conditions, formed peroxides can accumulate in the chemical container and may explode when subjected to heat, friction or mechanical shock. For this reason, it is imperative that laboratories learn to recognize and safely handle peroxide-forming compounds.
Practices for Control of Peroxide Forming Materials
Purchase
Ideally, purchases of peroxide-forming chemicals should be restricted to ensure that these chemicals are used up completely before they can become peroxidized. This requires careful experiment planning. Researchers should purchase no more material than is needed to complete an experiment within the chemical’s safe shelf life.
Labeling and Shelf-Life Limitation
Peroxides tend to form in materials as a function of age. Therefore, it is imperative that researchers are keenly aware of the age of their peroxide-forming chemicals. Researchers must date each container upon arrival in the laboratory. Containers must be dated again when opened for the first time. An appropriate expiration date based on what type of peroxide susceptible chemical the item is should also be on the label. Track dates and dispose of items through VEHS prior to expiration.
Storage
Peroxide-forming chemicals shall be stored in sealed, air-impermeable, light-resistant containers and should be kept away from light (light can initiate peroxide formation). Peroxide-forming chemicals should be stored in their original manufacturer’s container whenever possible. This is very important in the case of diethyl ether because the iron in the steel containers that the material is shipped in acts as a peroxide inhibitor.
Inhibitors
Many methods can be used to stabilize or inhibit the peroxidation of susceptible chemicals. If it does not interfere with the use of the chemical and if available, peroxide-forming chemicals shall be ordered with inhibitor added and peroxide scavengers (inhibitors) shall be added in small quantities to items that have been redistilled. Contact VEHS at 322-2057 if the peroxide scavenger interferes with the use of the susceptible chemical.
Management and disposal of old containers
Older containers of peroxide-forming chemicals, or containers of unknown age or history, must be handled very carefully and should never be opened by researchers. Any peroxide-forming chemical with visible discoloration, crystallization or liquid stratification should be treated as potentially explosive. Older steel containers that have visible rust may also be extremely dangerous. If any of these conditions are observed on a peroxide-forming chemical container or if the origin and age are unknown, do not attempt to move or open the container. Contact VEHS at 2-2057 to have the container inspected and if necessary disposed of properly.
Safe Distillation of Peroxide Forming Chemicals
Eliminate the peroxides with a chemical reducing agent or pass the solvent through activated alumina.
Adding mineral oil to the distillation pot has the combined effect of “cushioning” any bumping, maintaining dilution, and serving as a viscous reaction moderator in case the peroxides begin to decompose. Carefully monitor the distillation process to ensure that it does not dry out completely, and then overheat. Distillation can concentrate peroxides, especially if taken to a dry state. Peroxides will be present mainly in the still bottoms.
Small pieces of sodium metal can be added to the distillation vessel to reduce peroxides. Use benzophenone as an indicator for the presence of sodium metal (benzophenone in the presence of sodium metal forms a radical with a deep-blue color). When the blue color disappears, add more sodium metal to the vessel.
Classification of Peroxide Forming Materials
Chemicals that form peroxides are classified into four classes:
Class A: Peroxide Hazard on Storage – Without Concentration
These chemicals can form peroxides that are difficult to detect and eliminate. Label these items with a date of receipt and date of opening and dispose of these items 3 months after opening or 12 months if unopened.
Class B: Hazard Due to Peroxide Concentration
These chemicals can undergo explosive polymerization initiated by dissolved oxygen. Label these items with a date of receipt and date of opening and dispose of these items 6 months after opening or 12 months if unopened. When alcohols listed are used for purposes that do not involve heating, chemical reaction, bulk evaporation or other activities that may stress the peroxidizable material, it is not necessary to track and test these containers for peroxidation.
Class C: Auto Polymerize as a Result of Peroxide Accumulation
These chemicals may explode when relatively small quantities of peroxides are formed. These items normally have an inhibitor (scavenger) added to the substance by the manufacturer in order to prevent peroxides from forming. This inhibitor can be removed if it interferes with the use of the chemical or the chemical is redistilled in the lab. If a lab procedure requires the use of an uninhibited item in this Class, please contact VEHS at 322-2057. Label these items with a date of receipt and date of opening and dispose of inhibited items after 12 months and uninhibited items within 24 hours of use.
Class D: May Form Peroxides
These chemicals have the potential to form peroxides with varying conditions of use but are normally stable. Consult the manufacturer’s MSDS to determine when peroxide formation is expected and label accordingly
Common chemicals that form explosive levels of peroxides (this list is not inclusive)
Class A: Peroxide Hazard on Storage – Without Concentrationa
Butadienec
Vinylidene chloride
Chloroprened
Tetrafluoroethylene
Methacrylate
Divinyl acetylene
Class B: Hazard Due to Peroxide Concentration
Acetal
Acetaldehyde
Benzyl alcohol
Isopropyl ether
Cyclohexanol
2-cyclohexen-1-ol
Cumene
Decahydronaphthalene
Diacetylene
Dicyclopentadiene
Diethyl ether
Diethylene glycol
Dimethyl ether
Dioxanes
Ethylene glycol dimethyl ether
4-heptanol
Methyl acetylene
Methyl isobutyl ketone
3-methyl-1 butanol
Methyl cyclopentane
2-pentanol
4-penten-1-ol
1-phenylethanol
2-phenylethanol
2-propanol (isoproranol, “IPA”)
Tetrahydrofuran
Tetrahydronaphthalene
Vinyl ethers
Other secondary alcohols
Others - will keep updating.
Kent State - http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=20&ved=0CGQQFjAJOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dept.kent.edu%2Fors%2FORSContent%2FORSChem%2F807Peroxmat.pdf&ei=evNNU9XoFtG-sQSsnoCgDQ&usg=AFQjCNHKeO5BFq6oS94CPon_vprLH8X1Ig&sig2=OBhInrH2tGLW6aazWTjjdw&bvm=bv.64764171,d.cWc
State of NJ - Page 3 handling and storage - http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=8Rc79a3sNHOIZqULyd3mDg&bvm=bv.64764171,d.cWc
Kent State - http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=20&ved=0CGQQFjAJOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dept.kent.edu%2Fors%2FORSContent%2FORSChem%2F807Peroxmat.pdf&ei=evNNU9XoFtG-sQSsnoCgDQ&usg=AFQjCNHKeO5BFq6oS94CPon_vprLH8X1Ig&sig2=OBhInrH2tGLW6aazWTjjdw&bvm=bv.64764171,d.cWc
State of NJ - Page 3 handling and storage - http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=8Rc79a3sNHOIZqULyd3mDg&bvm=bv.64764171,d.cWc
^ "Consult the manufacturer’s MSDS to determine when peroxide formation is expected and label accordingly."
The sole US manufacturer's 2011 MSDS for dimethyl ether,
http://www.3eonline.com/ImageServer...27f7c5ca/e09f17c31a014bee9091601627f7c5ca.pdf
The sole US manufacturer's 2011 MSDS for dimethyl ether,
http://www.3eonline.com/ImageServer...27f7c5ca/e09f17c31a014bee9091601627f7c5ca.pdf
?
They ONLY sell it as a propellant in aerosols, the stability section states specifically, that it does not produce peroxide in pure form. That eliminates any exposed to air or water, and evaporated over and over, and the addition of time.
Do you really think, the best Universities in the country, have it out against DR. Z (LMFAO)!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, this degreaser is made in Korea, where they have very lax standards.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.dupont.com%2FDymel_Propellants%2Fen_US%2Fassets%2Fdownloads%2Fh54883_Dymel_meet_the_challenge.pdf&ei=_fxNU6eoKo3jsATNoIHgAg&usg=AFQjCNHD3hPM_rnL0qDRt6McRaGur_VSUw&sig2=UF2v59eIAHb86-qXkmwqAA&bvm=bv.64764171,d.cWc
Read stability section.
Last edited:
And you are wrong. I tried to explain why you're wrong about that pdf in a way you could understand, but instead of you understanding, Crooked8 negrepped me for saying so, thinking it was obvious you understood I guess. He did get me thinking - are you two pals or is neg rep at the drop of a hat in the name of righteousness just his MO? Here's another opportunity.
ITS A TYPO
GO TO PAGE 5
DIMETHYL ETHER IS NOW DIETHYL ETHER, WHICH WASN'T ON PAGE 2
In a desperate measure to find something that backs up however many dozens of posts on this you have now, you are finding every typo on the internet. It's diethylene glycol dimethyl ether, one line. one chemical. I think that trips up MSDS writers too. This is why there are references, because people don't get things right. Go to the very bottom of that page where they give their reference:
R.J. Kelly, "Review of Safety Guidelines for peroxide-forming Organic Chemicals", Chemical Health & Safety, September/October 1996, pp 28-36.
Here it is
http://www-ehs.ucsd.edu/lab/pdf/kelly_peroxides.pdf
DME is not listed anywhere. Not even in the long list of section D "chemicals that may form peroxides". It's a good reference, anyone wanting a good review of the subject should check it out.
Had posted dozens of links to info, but none posted.
You do not have to convince me. It is GW and Joe, if you want any credibility for recycling. They should concentrate on Blasters.
The MSDS created this month, by GW, at SH's expense lists peroxide problem.
There must be millions of articles, that DME would never produce peroxides. Post a dozen from reputable sources.
Some sources list DME explicitly, some mention only with glycols. When in doubt, side with safety. Every source that did not list DME explicitly, listed it with glycols.
Dupont only claims no peroxides if pure, in aerosol products, not re-using over time.
FYI, was impressed with Lawrence Livermore link, but massively outdated.
Again, If I am wrong, I am an obnoxious idiot, but no one is harmed.
The company seems to produce products first, and address problems later. Like ZHO disappearing.
I wish no malice towards anyone, and only want safety for everyone.
You do not have to convince me. It is GW and Joe, if you want any credibility for recycling. They should concentrate on Blasters.
The MSDS created this month, by GW, at SH's expense lists peroxide problem.
There must be millions of articles, that DME would never produce peroxides. Post a dozen from reputable sources.
Some sources list DME explicitly, some mention only with glycols. When in doubt, side with safety. Every source that did not list DME explicitly, listed it with glycols.
Dupont only claims no peroxides if pure, in aerosol products, not re-using over time.
FYI, was impressed with Lawrence Livermore link, but massively outdated.
Again, If I am wrong, I am an obnoxious idiot, but no one is harmed.
The company seems to produce products first, and address problems later. Like ZHO disappearing.
I wish no malice towards anyone, and only want safety for everyone.
Last edited:
