Nog Onsigbare
Member
Well that's how polls are done; it's not feasible to poll everyone so pollsters poll a representative sample.
Please breeders we still want regular seeds too...
- Thread starter funkpew
- Start date
Well that's how polls are done; it's not feasible to poll everyone so pollsters poll a representative sample.
redneck shogun
Member
I want to take two female siblings from a line and reverse one to use her as the donor for her sister. This would cut out all the labor of testing to find a male. If I can do it this way and not encounter problems then why wouldn't I? I don't consider a gut feeling that I am defying the laws of nature to be applicable when held to scientific standards.
I can not imagine a keeper female of mediocre potency, but if you wish. Yes that is what you will get a hybred cross that will likely not be more potent than the heavy hitter, so the purpose was? So now you have hybred seeds of a mediocre plant that have probably lost the trait that the original was kept for. And the seeds are likely not more potent than the most potent parent so where is the increase in potency? Also I did not say a true male was the only way to increase potency genetically, there are allways exceptions.
change that to seed companies. People with an understanding of breeding use all the tools they can and sometimes multiple ones in making a line.
All of you should be asking about plant numbers and how many parents there are if you want an idea of whats going on
You act like potency is the only trait worth pursuing, but if someone wanted to bring color, smells or flavors into a new line, introducing a "keeper" with some of those traits might temporarily reduce the potency, but as any other trait can be selectively added or removed by a breeder, so can potency.
I think that a male could quite possibly contain a trait that might be heavily recessive, but as males are quite often an "unknown" in terms of the primary traits MJ growers look for, it means more work for the breeder to remove possible unwanted traits from the male, and this isn't all that easy, considering that you can't grow huge greenhouses of the stuff in most of the world.
Yeah great Thread... But without reading^^I just have to say:
The choice is yours! You can dictade what they have to sell. That there are now most only fems, is just because nearly noone or just a few, are buying regular seeds theese days. Because they are infected by the advertisment of the big companies who claim fems are the better opinion and males are just soo bad and not needed. Or even make the noobs know, its sooo complicated to identificate a male.
The other thing is, most companies dont have their original parental plants anymore...
For example DP. The strain skywalker isnt aviable anymore as regular. What they do now is safe the last packs of that strain. Grow em all out and search for the best phenotype.
Self that one and sell it 4 high prices... Thats all and this so called "breeders" dont have to do real breeding work at all. Just collect the newest hyped cutz. Self them or maybee when they are really want to do a revolution
do a cross with another sts male...
So the only thing you can do to make something better is. JUST DONT BUY FEM SEEDS! You have to support the ones who are still selling good regular ones, cause if not they will be go down or have to switch to fem, too. Just to stay on the market... You see a fucked up thing but its in your hand! I talked to many companies and most of them say, they would love to offer regular versions again. But the people just want to have it as fem.
So my last words on this post just are...
Fuck Fems! Buy Regs!
The choice is yours! You can dictade what they have to sell. That there are now most only fems, is just because nearly noone or just a few, are buying regular seeds theese days. Because they are infected by the advertisment of the big companies who claim fems are the better opinion and males are just soo bad and not needed. Or even make the noobs know, its sooo complicated to identificate a male.
The other thing is, most companies dont have their original parental plants anymore...
For example DP. The strain skywalker isnt aviable anymore as regular. What they do now is safe the last packs of that strain. Grow em all out and search for the best phenotype.
Self that one and sell it 4 high prices... Thats all and this so called "breeders" dont have to do real breeding work at all. Just collect the newest hyped cutz. Self them or maybee when they are really want to do a revolution
do a cross with another sts male...So the only thing you can do to make something better is. JUST DONT BUY FEM SEEDS! You have to support the ones who are still selling good regular ones, cause if not they will be go down or have to switch to fem, too. Just to stay on the market... You see a fucked up thing but its in your hand! I talked to many companies and most of them say, they would love to offer regular versions again. But the people just want to have it as fem.
So my last words on this post just are...
Fuck Fems! Buy Regs!
I am amused and amazed at where this thread has traveled since funkpew's original post. Quite a bit of passion in this discussion no doubt.
Obviously proof is what separates opinion and theory from reality. On the topic of sex chromosome linked or fixed traits (from Wikipedia)...
Since the 1920s, a number of sex determination models have been proposed for Cannabis. Ainsworth describes sex determination in the genus as using "an X/autosome dosage type".[59]
A male hemp plant.
Dense raceme of carpellate flowers typical of drug-type varieties of Cannabis.
The question of whether heteromorphic sex chromosomes are indeed present is most conveniently answered if such chromosomes were clearly visible in a karyotype. Cannabis was one of the first plant species to be karyotyped; however, this was in a period when karyotype preparation was primitive by modern standards (see History of Cytogenetics). Heteromorphic sex chromosomes were reported to occur in staminate individuals of dioecious "Kentucky" hemp, but were not found in pistillate individuals of the same variety. Dioecious "Kentucky" hemp was assumed to use an XY mechanism. Heterosomes were not observed in analyzed individuals of monoecious "Kentucky" hemp, nor in an unidentified German cultivar. These varieties were assumed to have sex chromosome composition XX.[70] According to other researchers, no modern karyotype of Cannabis had been published as of 1996.[71] Proponents of the XY system state that Y chromosome is slightly larger than the X, but difficult to differentiate cytologically.[72]
More recently, Sakamoto and various co-authors[73][74] have used RAPD to isolate several genetic marker sequences that they name Male-Associated DNA in Cannabis (MADC), and which they interpret as indirect evidence of a male chromosome. Several other research groups have reported identification of male-associated markers using RAPD and AFLP.[75][76][77] Ainsworth commented on these findings, stating,
"It is not surprising that male-associated markers are relatively abundant. In dioecious plants where sex chromosomes have not been identified, markers for maleness indicate either the presence of sex chromosomes which have not been distinguished by cytological methods or that the marker is tightly linked to a gene involved in sex determination.[59] "
Environmental sex determination is known to occur in a variety of species.[78] Many researchers have suggested that sex in Cannabis is determined or strongly influenced by environmental factors.[65] Ainsworth reviews that treatment with auxin and ethylene have feminizing effects, and that treatment with cytokinins and gibberellins have masculinizing effects.[59] It has been reported that sex can be reversed in Cannabis using chemical treatment.[79] A PCR-based method for the detection of female-associated DNA polymorphisms by genotyping has been developed.[80]
Recently it was announced that the genome of cannabis has been fully mapped. So far only the raw genetic sequence has been released. That means the genetic data has yet to be assembled into a coherent, organized genome. The scientific community needs to perform this work to really determine what if any desirable traits could be carried by sex chromosomes.
I think Breeders like Tom Hill have figured out that the fastest way to create fixed desirable traits is to reverse female phenotypes as they can quickly show us whether those desired traits are being passed on in sufficient percentages of their progeny. Is it possible that you are losing something from the 'male' plant population, I wouldn't rule it out. But given we are talking about a plant where true scientific observation is nearly non existent due to the draconian laws, it will most likely take some time before we can prove or disprove it.
BlueGrassToker
Active member
Actually, using a female to pollinate another female is one of the reasons feminizing is such a useful tool to the serious and learned breeder. It does indeed help to find a suitable parent plant, without the rigors and time spent finding a suitable male.
Without using feminizing as a breeding tool, the task of stabilizing a line to contain preferred traits can, and most usually will, take years. The use of the practice can help a breeder hone in on a line much easier and faster than the regular M/F method.
It seems that those who actually delve into real breeding practices and methods tend to come around with real understanding that the only real problem with all of this is our own ignorance.
Some folks have such egos that they refuse to actually research things proper, and continue to hang onto the misguided and dubious arguments that they have chimed in on for so long.
Not only is the hermaphrodite trait a wonderful and magical thing of nature, it allows much more of us to grow much more herb. Some of us are only lucky enough to have a small closet box or tent to grow in, and robbing precious area to the practice of sexing plants can cause not only a shortage in a mans yields, but can actually cause a total catastrophe! Imagine having 4 each of 3 of your finest and most expensive regular seeds turn out to be nothing but 12 males after being 30-45 days into the grow. (Males that you have no idea about, Btw...). Do some math...that is 30-45 days fucked up on your weed supply. Not to mention you risked going to fucking jail for what????Males that aint for shit? LOL...
The smart man who has very limited space will do himself a favor by popping only feminized seeds. Each plant can be taken care of with the knowledge that it is going to produce weed. Hell, even in the most average of scenarios we loose half of our plants after sexed.
LOL...sometimes i fail to see why folks hang on to the misguided hogshit that they do. (shaking head)
Grobot2010
Member
When you have a plant that almost world-wide is under threat of eradication, it makes no sense to me to be spreading feminized seed stock throughout the world, that only increases the risk of species loss.
There once was a silly breeder who called for a thread, he wanted to see the difference between fem vs reg, because after all the proof is in the pudding as he says.,,,, never realizing that the experiment was doomed from the start because the comparisons would differ not due to fem vs reg, but because they had differing parental inputs. In this thread we are witnessing the folk who did not see the ridiculi (the plural of ridiculous,, ridiculous on many levels) of that experiment, and nothing more.Just read back through this thread and cant really understand why people are still arguing..ha...if your not going to take the word of a person(s) who are familiar w breeding practices..and your not going to take the time, beyond reading one or two threads on the subject-populated mostly by novice growers-then you probably dont really have a need to understand what your talking about..i hope as long as this thread is going tom hill will take the time to keep coming back and straightening folks out!
Me either nothing wrong with fems bred properly imo now. I have never had hermi problems with fem seed from any company I have ordered from gypsy including GHS. Had complete crap from some fem lines but some insane and consistent results from others. I like getting males so I like reg seeds better but I don't think there is much to argue about fem genetics currently other than bad parental selection like Tom just restated. Can bashem for what they don't provide but not what is inside.
so by the end of this thread, we have learned that: it still all boils down to numbers and selection?
Raco, interesting note about the m/f ratio..
Raco, interesting note about the m/f ratio..
BlueGrassToker
Active member
I want to throw out another scenario where the feminizing practice can come in handy to the serious breeder; Imagine that you have a female cut that is very much what you like, and you want to assess her breeding prowess. Imagine that this particular cut has been through alot and you have never seen it hermie, which makes you think it may be a good parental selection to breed with your prize male...but you don't know if she passes on the proclivity to not hermie to her progeny.... One can easily tell if you have a true female plant on your hands by simply stressing a cut with STS. If you can't make her hermie using silver, then you probably have a true breeding (for the lack of hermaphrodite gene) female on your hands. Now go breed it to your prize male. If you end up with progeny that still hermies, then you can blame the male you thought was such a prize.
T
thesloppy
So, I can't be the only one waiting for weeks for someone to address the ol' elephant in the room (or maybe I just missed the discussion). I guess I'll have to do it:
Tom, your passion for female seeds does not (yet) seem to be reflected in your catalog. Will you be releasing some fem beans in the near future?
Please say yes.
Tom, your passion for female seeds does not (yet) seem to be reflected in your catalog. Will you be releasing some fem beans in the near future?
Please say yes.
Oh he addressed it and he has over 60+ fem projects of elites going on now due for release sooner than later.
so, a fem'ed IBL and a female crossed with a male from same IBL should be similar, almost identical?
and has anyone tested this? I'd love to see that.
