Perlite? Really??

[johndenver]

responder's screenname is JohnDenver.

that cracked me up. it's not a really a name that you hear anymore.

Haha they're's a story behind it

 

[Carl Carlson]

I have a couple like it. So far I see no benefits.

perlite or coco croûton? I was actually referring to croûton/chips only.

You like that accente?

 

[bipotato]

Perlite.

I haven't tried the croutons, but I tried the Down to Earth coco chip brick a long time ago and didn't like it. Tried both straight chips and chips & coir.

 

[Ziggaro]

Hm thats interesting about the sour spot.. I'll have to look into it I havent noticed..

I just transplanted and it seems like plants have already looking much bigger 24 hours later. I'm using the "earth juice companion" brick coco, and its pretty fine. The roots seem to just dig right in.

The only time I "overwatered" is when they dry out too much and they get a good water afterward. They bounce back quickly, but they droop for a day or two as the roots hairs grow back. My fastest growth is achieved by watering just before the top starts to get a little dry.

 

[*mistress*]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3384198&postcount=811:

....@100% perlite hempy bucket gardeners....

frequency of watering in 5 gal bucket?

amount of water applied @ each watering?

daily watering , or every other day?

1 gallon of water, per plant, or more, or less, per watering?
...............................................................................
100 % perlite 5 gal bucket
6 plants = 3 - 5 gal water everytime depend on how thirsty they are
every other day watering, sometime every other / other day.

coco:
ph - 6.1-6.5
ec - 260
total organic matter - 96-98%
cellulose - 20-30 w/w%
sodium - 78mg/l
potassium - 210 mg/l
calcium - .50mg/l
ammonium - .40mg/l
chloride - 70mg/l
sulfate - 11mg/l
carbon:nitrogen ration - 80:1
air-filled porosity - 9.5-12.5%
total pore space - 93-95%
lignin - 60-70 w/w dry%
phosphorus - 4-8mg/l
mag - 4-6mg/l
fe - 5-8mg/l
nitrate - .3-1mg/l
water-holding capacity 80-88%
color - light brown
appearance - earth granular w/ short fibers

perlite:
immediately above a water reservoir, holds 30% of its volume as water.
@ 20cm(8") above a water reservoir, perlite holds 19% its volume in water...

50/50 coco/perlite =

*coco water-holding capacity 80-88%
*@ 20cm(8") above a water reservoir, perlite holds 19% its volume in water...

maybe fed 1/5 volume container, every 2 days... full strength fert.
maybe, run-off become 2" water reservoir...
maybe passive hydroponics, using sub-irrigation of run-off as buffered res...
maybe ph down to 5.0-5.5, ec 1.0-3.0+...

&

Perlite cut vs. straight coco - a documented trial w/ clones
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=108257

&

Reds going vertical with Gorilla Kush
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=164571

&

SYK's Killer Bucket System (KBS) Suggestion/Discussion Thread
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=121419

 

[gaiusmarius]

as long as you make sure the plant has plenty of roots when you plant it, i've never noticed a break, or adaption phase beyond a day or 2 at most. the only time i have had this happen (longer adaption phase) was when i planted clones without a good root system directly on the coco slabs, for some reason this causes a lot of wasted time.

as for the potential benefits of adding perlit, i see none. just more work for no added benefit. the only times this will help is when you plant clones in containers that are much too big for them. the only real use of perlit or lava rocks etc is as a base under the slabs or in the bottom of pots for the increased drainage capacity it gives. having said that we are growing weeds and there are many way to achieve what we want. if the perlit or what ever mixture works as well as you want it to then that's all that really matters. but i'm certainly a firm believer in using coco pure and watering it automatically per drip feed multiple times daily.

when it come to flushing for harvest i have tried a few variations, but i find a big massive flush about 1 week before harvest till your return ec is really low like 0.6 and less then i turn watering times up a bit and leave it to run fresh ph corrected water through the system for the remaining time 3x a day. i find if i let the coco dry out, it defeats the object of flushing some what as the remaining salts will get concentrated as the plant absorbs the remaining water. this eds up with gray ash instead of white when you water till last day.

 

[bipotato]

as long as you make sure the plant has plenty of roots when you plant it, i've never noticed a break, or adaption phase beyond a day or 2 at most. the only time i have had this happen (longer adaption phase) was when i planted clones without a good root system directly on the coco slabs, for some reason this causes a lot of wasted time.

Agreed, though I've never used coco slabs.

as for the potential benefits of adding perlit, i see none. just more work for no added benefit.

My feelings exactly.

the only times this will help is when you plant clones in containers that are much too big for them.

Yup, pretty much reiterates / confirms your first point.

the only real use of perlit or lava rocks etc is as a base under the slabs or in the bottom of pots for the increased drainage capacity it gives.

To be honest I don't even think that's a big deal, unless you have a puddle at the bottom from something like a Hempy bucket or a flat drain pan with too much runoff in it.

 

[gaiusmarius]

have never actually got around to trying a layer of something under the coco slabs, but i have been thinking about it for years lol. every time i take the old slabs off and see all the roots growing in the grooves of the table i think about doing it but when the time comes i'm mostly in a hurry to get things done. not sure how much measurable difference it would make, if any at all. still can be interesting trying these things.

 

[bipotato]

Are coco slabs easy to come by where you're at? Just asking, 'cuz I've personally seen the slabs in stores only once, and that was by chance. And I've been to quite a few stores in California.

 

[gaiusmarius]

yeah man coco slabs are as common as dirt over here in Europe nowadays, many commercial glass house growers are using coco now instead of rock wool slabs or water cultures.

 

[bipotato]

Must be something to do with distribution by Canna (based in Europe? or Sri Lanki/India/etc?) and such? Wonder why slabs aren't more popular here. Would love to give it a go one time.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Check out Jiffy's hydro page

http://www.jiffypot.com/jiffy/hydroponic

THe growbag, AKA the coco slab:

http://www.jiffypot.com/jiffy/catalogue/growbag.html

The Growblock - coco replacement for rockwool:

http://www.jiffyproducts.com/jiffy/catalogue/growblock

60-75% WHC and 20-35% AFP

3 sizes - 2" x 2" and 3" x 3" and 4" x 4"


They also have the CocoDisc made of husk chips - they designed it for Gerbera

copied from the catalog, a picture of the big one:

which is 6" x 9.5"

also claiming 75% WHC and 25" AFP


If I could get Jiffy coco and Jack's Hydro formula from the nursery supply house that is closeby, I might never have reason to set foot in an overpriced "hydro" shop again.

 

[bipotato]

Nice find. Didn't know Jiffy was into the coco game, or even the "hydroponics".

Can't wait to have some of that stuff available at Home Depot's for hopefully far cheaper than grow shops.

 

[ShroomDr]

I agree with both of these statements

the wet mush just below the root ball in coco is a no no for ideal growth.

the only times this will help is when you plant clones in containers that are much too big for them.

Perhaps this is the key, i think it allows me to transplant into larger containers than normal.

I do believe in a 'sour spot' I dont know that it is actually 'sour' but I think there can be a 'sopping wet' spot under the rootball. I have noticed it after some transplants; this 'sour spot' holds too much water imho; you can squeeze a lot of water out of it, and the roots seem to grow around it (not threw it).

Have you tried cutting 1 container with perlite gaiusmarius? Like i said, i was straight coco for most of my experience, i wouldnt claim increased yields, but its definitely hasnt hurt.

I should also mention i run recirculating reservoir, so watering frequency is no concern for me.

 

[johndenver]

as long as you make sure the plant has plenty of roots when you plant it, i've never noticed a break, or adaption phase beyond a day or 2 at most. the only time i have had this happen (longer adaption phase) was when i planted clones without a good root system directly on the coco slabs, for some reason this causes a lot of wasted time.

as for the potential benefits of adding perlit, i see none. just more work for no added benefit. the only times this will help is when you plant clones in containers that are much too big for them. the only real use of perlit or lava rocks etc is as a base under the slabs or in the bottom of pots for the increased drainage capacity it gives. having said that we are growing weeds and there are many way to achieve what we want. if the perlit or what ever mixture works as well as you want it to then that's all that really matters. but i'm certainly a firm believer in using coco pure and watering it automatically per drip feed multiple times daily.

when it come to flushing for harvest i have tried a few variations, but i find a big massive flush about 1 week before harvest till your return ec is really low like 0.6 and less then i turn watering times up a bit and leave it to run fresh ph corrected water through the system for the remaining time 3x a day. i find if i let the coco dry out, it defeats the object of flushing some what as the remaining salts will get concentrated as the plant absorbs the remaining water. this eds up with gray ash instead of white when you water till last day.

I've known plenty of growers using just coco and a drip-feed system. It's practically hydro in it's efficiency. Don't mess with the perlite, especially the extra chunky. Also to minimize that "sour spot" everyone's talking about, don't buy slabs of coco; just buy the bagged-out kind. It's more expensive but easier to work with.

For Mr. Carlson,
I hate the guys music but since I own a collective in Colorado (ironically not in Denver) and spend half my time in another city with incredibly-Draconian pot laws; people call me john denver. Idk if that explains enough.

 

[High Country]

Perlite will improve drainage and ensure O2 comes in and CO2 goes out.

 

[johndenver]

Perlite will improve drainage and ensure O2 comes in and CO2 goes out.

That might be true, but mostly for a soil mix or soil-less mix. Straight coco works almost like the Hemp buckets (search the grower's forum), with some slight differences. You can't treat coir like soil!

 

[jump117]

... So far I see no visible difference, besides the perlite pots drying out a bit faster.

this allows to water/feed more often with no risk of overwatering

 

[bipotato]

this allows to water/feed more often with no risk of overwatering

I don't feel that I'm ever at the risk of over-watering with coco except for a 2-3 day period after a transplant into a much bigger container. Usually if I pre-veg in real small pots (2.75" - 3" square) or 16oz cups, I can virtually eliminate the risk of over-watering. Without perlite.

But I feel I also know how to properly water in a new transplant so the risk is very low to non-existent for me.

IME/IMO

 

[Carl Carlson]

For Mr. Carlson,
I hate the guys music but since I own a collective in Colorado (ironically not in Denver) and spend half my time in another city with incredibly-Draconian pot laws; people call me john denver. Idk if that explains enough.

actually that makes perfect sense