Perlite? Really??

[johndenver]

actually that makes perfect sense

yeah man shit is ridiculous out here. but in Colorado its a dreamworld my man.

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

I have read that many people mix coco with perlite, but decided to follow Rezdog's advice and went straight coco. Boy am I lucky!!

I find that if I don't water this stuff every day, or twice a day, for a well rooted plant, I've got dry roots on my hands. We all know we can ill afford to have the root-hairs dry up!

So why perlite? Are you perlite users using drip systems or what? What is the benefit because I can't imagine having to water any more than I already do.

BTW GH flora series per GH instructions has been working beautifully. I've never had such lush and fast growing plants in veg. I'm incredibly impressed with GH in my limited experience. I had only used organics in the past and am never switching back!! LOL

Perlite holds a great deal of water on its own, so there is no need to water more often with perlite in the mix. Heh in the last big thread about perlite, some people found that it actually held more water than coco.

Anyways, as others have mentioned, the traditional advantage is less compaction in the medium. This means more even distribution of nutrients and more oxygenation when watering and as the medium dries out and pulls oxygen in.

Others have mentioned my thread on the subject as well, very kind. It was not meant to answer the question for all watering methods or growers, but is a starting point with some relatively hard data.

I wouldn't be surprised if the perlite was a negative when plants are running close to rootbound. Becomes a matter of the advantages of perlite vs extra space in the medium for rooting. If your plants run out of room, 20% perlite means 20% less roots.

In my trial and in my growing in general, I end up in 4 gallon pots for plants that are 3 months old, so there is plenty of space throughout the plant's life. In that situation, I've found the perlite mix gives me increased yields.

 

[bipotato]

I wouldn't be surprised if the perlite was a negative when plants are running close to rootbound. Becomes a matter of the advantages of perlite vs extra space in the medium for rooting. If your plants run out of room, 20% perlite means 20% less roots.

Never thought about that.

Right now I wouldn't say that I'm seeing anything negative other than more one-time prep. work at the beginning, but nothing positive to offset that, either. Of course all by eye and maybe I'll change my mind when numbers or other more solid data comes in.

 

[Spanishwilly]

yeah man coco slabs are as common as dirt over here in Europe nowadays, many commercial glass house growers are using coco now instead of rock wool slabs or water cultures.

Do you know where I can get coco croutons over here as well?
I could really use croutons. I think I should get a distributorship for croutons.

That's pretty off topic isn't it. Sorry.

 

[caljim]

I think the type of coco you are using plays a role.

GH red label bricks, hold less moisture/are chunkier, than the green label which has finer particle and less long strand fibers.

I use the Botanicare 5kg bricks of CoCo Gro. They tend to be more on the coffee ground side of fine with some long strands. Holds a ton moisture and is great for well rooted plants and cloning.

The trouble starts when you transplant into a bit to big of a pot and the coco stays soggy, you get that lag time before they fill in the pot and take off again.

When you transplant on the day you go into flower, like i do, you dont want lag time. I found that cutting the coco with some perlite allows me to transplant into a bigger pot and be able to water everyday without the soggy/sour spot under the root ball.

Now if you were running straight chunks or the red bricks the perlite would just be in the way, you want that fast drainage so that you could water again sooner.

 

[gaiusmarius]

Do you know where I can get coco croutons over here as well?
I could really use croutons. I think I should get a distributorship for croutons.

That's pretty off topic isn't it. Sorry.

sorry no idea about where to get the croutons, never seen them in the stores i've been at, mind you i'm sure if you contact canna they can recommend a distributor in your area. or as you say, become a distributor.

 

[ShroomDr]

Also to minimize that "sour spot" everyone's talking about, don't buy slabs of coco; just buy the bagged-out kind. It's more expensive but easier to .

the 'sour spot' has nothing to do with bagged or compressed coco. I grow in (bagged) bio bizz loose coco (drip feed coffee grind consistency).

If the transplant is too small for the container it's going into, coco with a 'coffee grind consistency', beneath the rootball, does not drain properly. It wont kill the plant, you can treat it like soil, however this 'sour spot' appears to temporarily stunt development.

imho It is not 'you can treat coco like soil', you ARE treating coco like soil. A sour spot is ruining the supposed benefits of cocos hydroponic aspects (quickness being the factor).

 

[dunkybones]

I grow in straight coco, and I've never understood why people feel the need to amend it. And I've never understood this 'sour spot.' When my plants are finished, the root ball is so dense you can't tear it apart with your hands. I don't reuse my coco because it would be too time consuming to separate it from the roots. But I run DTW, maybe for people doing heavy recirculating the perlite helps?

 

[delta9nxs]

howdy! i have just now read this thread for the first time and would like to ask you folks to take a look at my Passive Plant Killer thread over in the hydro forum. i have been dealing with these same issues as i made the transition through a series of media experiments using mixtures of turface, perlite, and coco in various ratios on my way to trying 100% coco, which i am using now in the device i built. i think i may have found some solutions to these issues. i just harvested my first all coco plant last week and my second this week. i sawed the root balls in half and there is no soggy, wet, sour spot. i'm treating coco a little differently. i would really like some critiques and suggestions. thanks, d9

oh yeah , there are some photos of one of these root balls towards the end of the thread.

 

[F_T_P!]

I use perlite and coco in my Hempy buckets , but I do not mix them.

I use the perlite under the drain hole and straight coco above it. This is done so the coco does not get soggy in the buckets.

I want to run a side by side with DTW full coco vs. coco/perlite Hempy to see if there is a difference.

 

[Spanishwilly]

I use perlite and coco in my Hempy buckets , but I do not mix them.

I use the perlite under the drain hole and straight coco above it. This is done so the coco does not get soggy in the buckets.

I want to run a side by side with DTW full coco vs. coco/perlite Hempy to see if there is a difference.

I'm thinking of something like this. Doesn't the perlite percolate up to the top? Or rather, the coco wash down into the perlite?

 

[*mistress*]

I use perlite and coco in my Hempy buckets , but I do not mix them.

I use the perlite under the drain hole and straight coco above it. This is done so the coco does not get soggy in the buckets.

I want to run a side by side with DTW full coco vs. coco/perlite Hempy to see if there is a difference.

the coco gets soggy directlyly under the root ball, not @ the bottom...

maybe, try mixing perlite 50/50 in the very center/middle of the container... should see that the roots are thicker, more abundant & have more access to oxygen than part of bucket w/ only coco...

examining root mass of any experiment, ++!

there is spot in ~middle of container that water may saturate to point where no oxygen can get... this where coco rrots become thin & brown & perlite lets propoer aeration thru...

coco+perlite should give best results, as roots should be over-all healthier due to increase 02...

I'm thinking of something like this. Doesn't the perlite percolate up to the top? Or rather, the coco wash down into the perlite?

no...

perlite maintains its structure & actually holds thin film of water/solution in tiny crevices. it is not that light, especially once wetted... it holds the water, & thus the weight of the water... but permits air channels in media that coco doesnt....

 

[Spanishwilly]

no...

perlite maintains its structure & actually holds thin film of water/solution in tiny crevices. it is not that light, especially once wetted... it holds the water, & thus the weight of the water... but permits air channels in media that coco doesnt....

exxxxxxxxcelllent.

 

[Harinama]

I'm running blumat drip in hempy with a 3:1 coco/perlite. I love the mix, it's light, it holds the perfect amount of water, and i have ZERO overflow(if i don't accidently overwater). Using clearex(changing to dripclean), i have no salt buildup.

I use Down to Earth coco, which requires only a little flushing/conditioning, but at $20/4.8cf(but it seems to actually produce like 10cf because it swells so much) it's a steal! And it smells sweet, whereas other cheap coco i've used still smelled a little like the ocean.

I have absolutely zero transplant shock, even if the root ball accidentally breaks apart..which really surprised me...

I just can't bring myself to go fully coco...maybe i'll do some testing someday.

 

[coconaut]

20% perlite means 20% less roots.

so by that logic, 100% perlite = 100% less roots
people grow in straight perlite, adding perlite to a medium doesn't necessarily decrease available root space substantially.
There are different grades of perlite, #1 (small) - #4 (chunky)
I concur that the large grades of perlite do indeed decrease available root space within the container. As roots can only grow around perlite, not into it.
If you fill a container with #1 perlite, and another with #4 perlite you can clearly see how drastic the difference is.
#1 and #2 grade have lots of surface area and can be mixed quite liberally with coir.
I would guess I use about 20% #2, but then I also amend with horticultural charcoal, also a #2 grade, maybe about 5- 10%.
I have used straight coco, but just found this mix works best for my conditions and my routines.

 

[F_T_P!]

the coco gets soggy directlyly under the root ball, not @ the bottom...

maybe, try mixing perlite 50/50 in the very center/middle of the container... should see that the roots are thicker, more abundant & have more access to oxygen than part of bucket w/ only coco...

examining root mass of any experiment, ++!

I will add this suggestion to the experiment, thanks.

 

[Wait...What?]

Comparison of Six Soilless Media in a Vertical Production System (it's a PDF download from ufl.edu)

See Table 1.

Vertigro are a simple top drip system - they're stacked square pots.

 

[ShroomDr]

Comparison of Six Soilless Media in a Vertical Production System (it's a PDF download from ufl.edu)

See Table 1.

Vertigro are a simple top drip system - they're stacked square pots.

Media Media Volume Ratio (% : %)
Yield (oz/plant)

Perlite 100
6.8
Perlite & Vermiculite 85:15
7.4
Perlite & Coconut Coir 75:25
7.3
Perlite & Coconut Coir 50:50
7.4
Perlite & Coconut Coir 25:75
7.8
Scotts Metro MixTM (366-P) 100
7.4

Unless Scotts metro is straight coco, that variable is not represented here. Of those tested the Gators say 75:25 coco;perlite performs best.

 

[Greenmopho]

I've never used perlite in my coco and never will. Perlite is typically used to provide aeration and moisture retention to growing mediums that do not excel in those categories. Coco is great in both of those categories and adding perlite only seems redundant.

If you have plants drying out pots quickly, 1. Your plants are actively metabolizing and transpiring, a good thing 2. Your plants probably would do well in larger pots, especially if you are hand watering.

I drip feed past runoff my 3 gallon pots 3 times a day on a timer. Before i had the drip setup I hand watered and it was a PITA. Often I couldn't keep a consistent schedule and it wasn't uncommon to have dry pots. The plants never really suffered but now my current drip setup is a "set it and forget it" deal which is better in every way.

We mixed perlite and coco on our first coco grow here, and they don't look so hot lately. I can do handwatering with soil, but the coco/perlite mixture has us guessing too much. Treat it like soil? or hydro? Seems like they didn't like getting watered twice a day, that was too much...Got a pump to do drip, in 5 gal buckets...

You guys need to come by and help us figure this out!

 

[wickedpete66]

I have read that many people mix coco with perlite, but decided to follow Rezdog's advice and went straight coco. Boy am I lucky!!

I find that if I don't water this stuff every day, or twice a day, for a well rooted plant, I've got dry roots on my hands. We all know we can ill afford to have the root-hairs dry up!

So why perlite? Are you perlite users using drip systems or what? What is the benefit because I can't imagine having to water any more than I already do.

BTW GH flora series per GH instructions has been working beautifully. I've never had such lush and fast growing plants in veg. I'm incredibly impressed with GH in my limited experience. I had only used organics in the past and am never switching back!! LOL

Postman did a side by side last year of this very thing. he found that the coco w/perlite out performed straight coco. its probably due to the fact that perlite will retain moisture longer than straight coco. So even though the medium might be a bit dried. the plants are still getting nutrients from the perlite