passive plant killer

[Snook]

“Do u know how long your 1k hortilux have to be on to get to the point where any more light is a waste for that day for cannabis? Is it the same for veg and flower?”


no, I don't know because no one knows. Unfortunately that study has not been done yet to my knowledge. But the specmeter people, who build greenhouse light monitoring equipment and supplemental light programs, base their whole program on 30 moles/day. That is considered to be a huge amount of light in a greenhouse. Their “light scouts” peg at 30 moles/day.


“I guess another way of asking this question is are we trying to get between 25 and 30 moles of light on our plants per day? Was it suggested earlier that a 1k Horti is pushing 1500 umol @ a given distance? Does that mean 1500 micromoles per second?”


well, I personally believe we need more light than 30 moles in aggregate per day for top production but there are limiting factors. The first being the bulb itself. A 1k horti produces 1500 umols at 16”. which is approx 64 moles per day. Equatorial sunlight. And then drops radically with each inch further away. Just 2” in free air drops it to approx 1200 umols. Yes, umols are micromoles per second, an instantaneous measurement of flow.


“If it is, I could multiply that by 60 to get per minute moles. Then divide 25 mol or 30 mol by the per minute number to get total number of mins the light must be on to give us, say 25 mol. Then lastly divide that number by 60 to get hours our lights must be on. Using this math (which hinges on the assumption that the umol number is per second) I got about 4.8 hours for a 1K Horti...... am I way off?”


right idea, but the easier math is per hour. Formula for moles per day is 3600 (number of seconds in an hour) x umols x number of hours divided by 1,000,000 (umols in a mole).


“one side of the plant where the bulb is. If we have another bulb on a flip we could flip to it at 5 hours and get 25 mols on the other side of the plant. Since we want to keep the photo period at 12/12 we can just round up and go 6 hours one bulb and then flip for 6 hours on the other. Am I following along with this ok? Is this partially the logic behind what you're designing?”


or, 3 bulbs on 3 sides for 4 hours each. Or four bulbs on 4 sides for 3 hours each. It's very hard to quantify, using the equipment we have available at home, the total effect of multiple bulbs at multiple angles giving light at different times.

The plant counts moles. The sun moves. My par meter pegs at 2000 umols in bright sunlight. 2000 umols is more light than the plant needs for max photosynthesis. Beyond that and you get photo inhibition.

How is the photosynthate partitioned? That is, does light on one side drive processes on the other side equally? I don't think so but have no way of finding out except observation.

I think we are forced to compromise in order to achieve a balanced presentation of light.

Light from the sun appears almost parallel to the plant and is equal in intensity at the depth of field represented by a single 3 dimensional plant.

There is no way we can accomplish this indoors with our lighting options. With one light we have spokes of a wheel with radically failing intensity at even slight increases in distance.

What is right for one part of a plant is inadequate for the rest of the plant.

We can compensate by adding other lights to the pattern, using them either simultaneously or alternately.

Or having lights move.

And by making the plant more 2 dimensional.

In my flower area I was hitting the plants from 2 directions simultaneously and I think it stimulated growth.

With my bulb arrangement I was using approx ¼ of the light from each bulb or a total of 500 watts applied to each plant since there were two bulbs.

This could also be accomplished with one bulb centered between two plants. Each plant also getting 500 watts output.

But the one light would lose effectiveness faster than the two lights because of proximity on a large 3d plant.

It's going to be interesting for sure.

I kill moles.

 

[petemoss]

I hooked up drip rings to my mini-ppks and set the pulse feed to 15 seconds every three hours. My plantlets seem to like the auto top watering and are looking very lush and healthy. The medium is slightly too wet on top because most of the small pots are still filled with coco and perlite. I'm gradually moving toward a turface/rice hull mix but it will take several weeks. Having wicks to drain the standing water gives me more margin for error. Now I don't have to worry about overwatering and drowning roots. Really liking these ppks and starting to feel bored!

 

[Guest 142956]

What! No Delta9nxs for 2 weeks! Same here I am going fishing in the mountains for about the same time period.

 

[disciple]

 

[petemoss]

I ran Turface MVP last run and it was awesome with perlite. I went w/Coco Perlite this time due to logistics b/c the Turface is really heavy.

I mix 25L Coco to each 110L bag of Perlite. I'm pulsing every 50 mins and cannot seem to overwater this mixture of media.

The coco+perlite is working fine even though the mix holds a lot of moisture. The wicks drain away excess water. But the main reason I want to get away from coco is fungus gnats. Can't seem to get rid of them. Hopefully turface+rice hulls will be gnat free.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

fungus gnats

Fuck heads.

I'm starting to think like you're thinking.

Haven't seen them in a long time.

But I have lately.

Fuck heads.

 

[Snook]

The coco+perlite is working fine even though the mix holds a lot of moisture. The wicks drain away excess water. But the main reason I want to get away from coco is fungus gnats. Can't seem to get rid of them. Hopefully turface+rice hulls will be gnat free.

gno, gnats in T&RHs. Heavy, yes but not lifting them much.

 

[Guest 142956]

I went to a mix of perlite, peat moss and fullers earth to get away from the bugs. Before I tried coco I never had fungus gnats.

 

[petemoss]

I've been using coco for three years and had occasional gnats but recently it's been much worse. I think the frequent top watering has kept the tops of my pots too wet and more attractive to gnats. I tried mosquito dunks crumbled on top and drops of Microbe-Lift BMC to no avail. Both contain Bti (Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis) that selectively attack the gnat larvae and prevent the evil little worms from eating. They are supposed to starve within two or three days. The adult flies I got with sticky traps. Must have caught hundreds on the yellow sticky papers. But the fuck heads won't die! I tried just about all the non-toxic remedies such as organic "flying insect killer" spray, pepper, tobacco juice, potato slices etc. It makes me mad to think of the yield I lost because the larvae were munching on my roots. Now I must give up and abandon coco in my flower cab. Those little fuckers beat me!

 

[disciple]

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Scenario 2: In the flat row (D9 inspired):

If you can manage space an access, I highly recommend the flat row. It is a simpler geometry to train towards, and you have the benefit of pulling the back quarter of the plant forward and filling in canopy holes.

It is reported to be much easier to achieve .8+ yields consistently than lighting plants from all sides, in that it is much easier to train towards using all available light by bringing everything forward into (essentially) a two dimensional plane. And you don't have to be as perfect in veg. Those extra 'back' shoots really come into play when you need them.

I would consider training to a vertical scrog (for convenience sake) and run your six hundred on the top and your four hundreds on the bottom, and do it in a vertical zig-zag... low-high-low-high-low-high-etc... I don't really know what to do with the two-fifty...

 

[Snook]

I went to a mix of perlite, peat moss and fullers earth to get away from the bugs. Before I tried coco I never had fungus gnats.

I used it for 2 gos, fuging gnats....

 

[gregor_mendel]

Did you use BTi preemptively, or did you use it after you saw fungus gnats?
I started this round with a mosquito dunk in the control bucket. It seems to be working.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Fuck Heads.

I am not very fond of those Fuck Heads.

When I think those Fuck Heads, I do not get a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Fuck Heads.

 

[petemoss]

Did you use BTi preemptively, or did you use it after you saw fungus gnats?
I started this round with a mosquito dunk in the control bucket. It seems to be working.

Hi Gregor, I saw the little flies several months ago and put a cloth bag filled with a crushed mosquito dunk in my reservoir. Later, I sprinkled the crushed dunks on the coco and soaked with water. Then I found a more concentrated form of BTi and added a drop or two per gallon of water. Now I add a few drops of BTi to my reservoir and am seeing fewer gnats, but can't completely wipe them out. Could they be getting immune to the BTi?

 

[gregor_mendel]

I don't know about the possibility of immunity.
I have noticed, though, that preemptive treatment works better, though it is still not 100%.

Why does coco have problems with fungus gnats, and other dense absorbent media, such as peat, don't?

Does coco come with fungus gnats included?

When I run out of coco or mosquito dunks, I will probably abandon coco myself, as the BTi is an added expense, and not always effective.

While I am intrigued by turface, I don't think I would toss it in my garden beds for the world to see.

It will probably be peat, but no perlite, as I don't like that in my garden beds either.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Does coco come with fungus gnats included

Mine does.

Fuck Heads.

(Immunity seems unlikely as it is a bacterial attack, but resistant is probably the same word or whatever. Super fucking FGs. Super Fuck Heads.)

EDIT: Profanity games aside, I think the BTi attacks the larval stage. You might be successfully managing your population within your garden, but have invading units from other media/debris/outdoors etc. But if I'm not mistaken, it's the larval form that chews most thuroughly on the roots. So you might be winning.

 

[thesloppy]

Do you think there's any value in sharing what brands of coco are supplying y'all with an endless supply of gnats, or do you think that's just as likely to be due to other issues (shipping, storage, etc.) than brand?

 

[Bassy59]

So glad I found this thread Delta. After reading k33f's thread many times over and on my second grow using that technique, and having seen your results in that thread.

A ton of catch up to do. So this post will remind me.

 

[bad gas]

how about a top dress of Napa floor dry? bugs aren't supposed to like diatomaceous earth.

I'm using floor dry/rice hulls mixed 3:1.

stay safe. bg