D
passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
I'm on what feels like 56k right now so I will make it short and sweet.
I like tanks. No added btus or open flames.
Water cooled co2 burner = tankless water heater
Lots of air movement vornado or honeywell fans are a must.
I rock a humidifier, because I have lots of air movement. The entire plant needs to dance with the wind.
Humidifier increased my harvest 30%.
Blessings.
I like tanks. No added btus or open flames.
Water cooled co2 burner = tankless water heater
Lots of air movement vornado or honeywell fans are a must.
I rock a humidifier, because I have lots of air movement. The entire plant needs to dance with the wind.
Humidifier increased my harvest 30%.
Blessings.
Thanks for the welcome Delta!
Still so much for me to read here. You probably mention it, but I haven't noticed. Are you still using defoliation like you started too in the k33f thread? Are the avg yields up there in that 15z and up area using it and these other methods you mention?
Thanks.
Still so much for me to read here. You probably mention it, but I haven't noticed. Are you still using defoliation like you started too in the k33f thread? Are the avg yields up there in that 15z and up area using it and these other methods you mention?
Thanks.
i just re-read biksa's article and i'm starting to think the lung room concept is someone's fantasized ideal of perfection. to operate it properly you need motor driven dampers with controls. just too much bs for me.
i am wondering if someone has actually built and operated one.
for even a medium sized setup the expense of construction and control are huge compared to the gains, if any.
disciple, what kind of controls are you using? i am thinking of just a co2 controller on a timer or with a timer.
and then the ac's, which are programmable with their own timers and thermostats, can run set at different temperatures. one for lights off set at 68-70, it will run all the time above it's set temp. then the others at intervals of maybe 2 degrees above 78. one at 78, one at 80, one at 82, and one at 84.
they will kick on as needed and each one will remove more moisture as it does so. as moisture content rises with temps.
i just talked myself into two more ac's. it will give me 40,000 btu capability total. that should handle anything i do in this space in the future.
i am wondering if someone has actually built and operated one.
for even a medium sized setup the expense of construction and control are huge compared to the gains, if any.
disciple, what kind of controls are you using? i am thinking of just a co2 controller on a timer or with a timer.
and then the ac's, which are programmable with their own timers and thermostats, can run set at different temperatures. one for lights off set at 68-70, it will run all the time above it's set temp. then the others at intervals of maybe 2 degrees above 78. one at 78, one at 80, one at 82, and one at 84.
they will kick on as needed and each one will remove more moisture as it does so. as moisture content rises with temps.
i just talked myself into two more ac's. it will give me 40,000 btu capability total. that should handle anything i do in this space in the future.
tankless water heater. hmmm. might be safer. i'll try to compare combustion rates with burners.
i'm going to have 12 fans blowing straight up past the lights. 6 on at one time flipping with the lights plus the fan output of now 5 ac's installed at the highest point possible blowing straight across the room at ceiling level.
i own a large de-huey but no huey.
what rh did you run to get that 30%?
Wow.
D goes to work and we sit around talking about Fuck Head RAs and FGs.
He comes back and posts something, and all of a sudden peoples brains are working again.
I started to cut and paste from the last two pages in response and acknowledgements, and then I got twitchy and just decided to write for a minute on CO2 vs. Lung Rooms w.r.t. Awesome Huge New Builds.
I'm pretty vocal about my Pro-Two-Flower-Rooms and Pro-Perpetual runs.
Mostly, I believe that a grower should grow--not farm it out to other shmuck--and this is the best way I know how to manage day to day living with intensive grown environments.
Two Flower Rooms allow the Solo Grower to:
Deal with flower room obligations over 24 hours rather than just 12.
Make best use electrical infrastructure.
For this conversation, however the relevance is in allow you to exchange heat back and forth between the rooms to even out day and night temperatures, and reduce total BTU load per flower period by a half.
A lung room need not be not some pie-in-the-sky kind of elaborate bull shit. It is simply an added volume of air that allows for environmental stability.
With regard to heat: for every xBTUs emitted, if the volume of air is doubled, the felt change in temperature is reduced by 50%.
(Going way back into my brains, a BTU is the amount of heat to bring on cubic centimeter of water up one degree C... so if you keep the output of heat the same, and double the volume you reduce the increase in temp by one half.)
A lamp produces a fixed amount of waste energy as heat. So by doubling your volume, reduce your effective heat by 1/2. If that keeps your garden in an acceptable range, you don't have to add the expense and wattage of cooling. When you do, you only need to take out the top end of this heat.
Now BTUs are an input into the system, that are introduced as long as lights are on.
CO2 in a sealed system is consumed per unit. So if you are running a sniffer and control, once you hit your baseline (IMO 800-900ppm is both non-toxic and more than adequate in a very mobile atmosphere) you don't have to add back anything more than what the plants consume. Most controllers have hysteretic settings... that is (loosely), you can adjust the cycling response relative to high point and low point. So for every Xppm of CO2, in twice the volume, the burner will cycle half as often. So you will have to deal with the increased heat and humidity less often. (As I understand it, fewer cycles in a mechanical system is associated with more efficiency.)
This is true of humidity management too.
A lung room, rather than being a super complicated thing, is something that adds volume to your garden environment and contributes to environmental stability. It can be as simple as your veg and work room attached to your flower rooms. Or the garage that encloses some tents. It is an enclosed, inline space that allows for environmental management to happen centrally and be distributed to the rest of the garden, and to make full use of all of the volume associated with the garden to stabilize the system.
Some thoughts on DHFs approach:
He used CO2 monitors in selecting his sites, so his ambient CO2 hovered around 800ppm.
His coluseium designs used indirect airflow, rather than fans pointing at the plants. Doubling the volume changed per minute moved enough air gently throughout his grows without wind-burning fans.
Air flow presents the same physiological problems for plants in an indoor environment as lighting does--that is, our artificial intensity is can be highly damaging to localized regions on the plant. That is, without using massive volume exchanges, we have to use multiple local air movers that can cause as much damage as good with windburn and whatnot. So many of the pro-growers on these sites have multiple fans above the canopy creating as much indirect flow as they can manage without beating the shit out of their plants.
This is not to say that air flow can't be managed without damaging plants in closed individual rooms.
Vortex/vornados pointed down rows or under canopies can really get some air circulating. Oscillating fans above the canopy can mix it up.
Big air exchange (provided inlets and outlets are sensible) can also perform this task.
So the big issue is moving air gently and thoroughly throughout the canopy, and insuring that that air is well managed with desirable temps and humidity and CO2 concentrations to keep VPD in its place and metabolism on point.
Even great growers acknowledge it takes multiple runs in a new space to get things dialed.
The only way around this is often quoted by DHF and his followers (...and based on this post, I guess I've got to include myself on that list...): "Overkill is underrated."
Push more air than you need.
Have bigger ACs than you need.
Have bigger humidifiers/dehumidifiers than you need.
Make sure you can keep your environment within target comfort zone, and now you are in control of your grow.
D goes to work and we sit around talking about Fuck Head RAs and FGs.
He comes back and posts something, and all of a sudden peoples brains are working again.
I started to cut and paste from the last two pages in response and acknowledgements, and then I got twitchy and just decided to write for a minute on CO2 vs. Lung Rooms w.r.t. Awesome Huge New Builds.
I'm pretty vocal about my Pro-Two-Flower-Rooms and Pro-Perpetual runs.
Mostly, I believe that a grower should grow--not farm it out to other shmuck--and this is the best way I know how to manage day to day living with intensive grown environments.
Two Flower Rooms allow the Solo Grower to:
Deal with flower room obligations over 24 hours rather than just 12.
Make best use electrical infrastructure.
For this conversation, however the relevance is in allow you to exchange heat back and forth between the rooms to even out day and night temperatures, and reduce total BTU load per flower period by a half.
A lung room need not be not some pie-in-the-sky kind of elaborate bull shit. It is simply an added volume of air that allows for environmental stability.
With regard to heat: for every xBTUs emitted, if the volume of air is doubled, the felt change in temperature is reduced by 50%.
(Going way back into my brains, a BTU is the amount of heat to bring on cubic centimeter of water up one degree C... so if you keep the output of heat the same, and double the volume you reduce the increase in temp by one half.)
A lamp produces a fixed amount of waste energy as heat. So by doubling your volume, reduce your effective heat by 1/2. If that keeps your garden in an acceptable range, you don't have to add the expense and wattage of cooling. When you do, you only need to take out the top end of this heat.
Now BTUs are an input into the system, that are introduced as long as lights are on.
CO2 in a sealed system is consumed per unit. So if you are running a sniffer and control, once you hit your baseline (IMO 800-900ppm is both non-toxic and more than adequate in a very mobile atmosphere) you don't have to add back anything more than what the plants consume. Most controllers have hysteretic settings... that is (loosely), you can adjust the cycling response relative to high point and low point. So for every Xppm of CO2, in twice the volume, the burner will cycle half as often. So you will have to deal with the increased heat and humidity less often. (As I understand it, fewer cycles in a mechanical system is associated with more efficiency.)
This is true of humidity management too.
A lung room, rather than being a super complicated thing, is something that adds volume to your garden environment and contributes to environmental stability. It can be as simple as your veg and work room attached to your flower rooms. Or the garage that encloses some tents. It is an enclosed, inline space that allows for environmental management to happen centrally and be distributed to the rest of the garden, and to make full use of all of the volume associated with the garden to stabilize the system.
Some thoughts on DHFs approach:
He used CO2 monitors in selecting his sites, so his ambient CO2 hovered around 800ppm.
His coluseium designs used indirect airflow, rather than fans pointing at the plants. Doubling the volume changed per minute moved enough air gently throughout his grows without wind-burning fans.
Air flow presents the same physiological problems for plants in an indoor environment as lighting does--that is, our artificial intensity is can be highly damaging to localized regions on the plant. That is, without using massive volume exchanges, we have to use multiple local air movers that can cause as much damage as good with windburn and whatnot. So many of the pro-growers on these sites have multiple fans above the canopy creating as much indirect flow as they can manage without beating the shit out of their plants.
This is not to say that air flow can't be managed without damaging plants in closed individual rooms.
Vortex/vornados pointed down rows or under canopies can really get some air circulating. Oscillating fans above the canopy can mix it up.
Big air exchange (provided inlets and outlets are sensible) can also perform this task.
So the big issue is moving air gently and thoroughly throughout the canopy, and insuring that that air is well managed with desirable temps and humidity and CO2 concentrations to keep VPD in its place and metabolism on point.
Even great growers acknowledge it takes multiple runs in a new space to get things dialed.
The only way around this is often quoted by DHF and his followers (...and based on this post, I guess I've got to include myself on that list...): "Overkill is underrated."
Push more air than you need.
Have bigger ACs than you need.
Have bigger humidifiers/dehumidifiers than you need.
Make sure you can keep your environment within target comfort zone, and now you are in control of your grow.
Do the tankless. For sure. Same burner process, but you can redirect a bunch of the heat away from the room.
D
disciple
Not really. They have a wall mount. You plumb to your inlet and outlet. You have a solenoid that opens your water line to turn it on if you are running drain to waste, or a pump if you are recirculating. The water heater fires when water flows through it. You can trigger your inline solenoid by getting one that is a normal close/120V AC and plug it into your control mechanism. If you are running closed loop under pressure, a standard hydronic inline pump is adequate. If you are running an unpressurized system, any old submersible will do.
The ones lots of people are running are the cheap "outdoor" kind, and the electronic ignition is powered by some D cells. One of the water cooling companies just rebrands a $130 cheapo and sells it for the big dollars.
As for the size of the burners... like any other application you can buy bigger or smaller capacities. With most of the heat (80%+?) being carried out of the room by the water, your temps are less influenced. Burn times really aren't that relevant, as the same amount of heat will be exhausted per unit of combusted propane. By using tank less heater, you can move most of that heat away from the grow.
Temp 85
Hum 65-75
Co2 1300-1500
Plants went from3/4# to 1# just from adding a humidifier
Clean out the bottom 4-8" of the tree to provides a path for proper air flow, and pull fan leaves from inside the tree and you will not have any rot or mildew.
I just remembered a thousand posts or so ago you said you had a chiller collecting dust,
Years ago when looking at water cooled co2 burners I Sherlock homey'd that they are in fact tankless hwh. Sometimes you find them exactly the same just housed in different color plastic.
You end up spending 20-45% more just for buying it through one of our "specialty" stores or websites for the same thing!
I guess theres a large over head to pay someone to put your sticker on it
Hum 65-75
Co2 1300-1500
Plants went from3/4# to 1# just from adding a humidifier
Clean out the bottom 4-8" of the tree to provides a path for proper air flow, and pull fan leaves from inside the tree and you will not have any rot or mildew.
I just remembered a thousand posts or so ago you said you had a chiller collecting dust,
Years ago when looking at water cooled co2 burners I Sherlock homey'd that they are in fact tankless hwh. Sometimes you find them exactly the same just housed in different color plastic.
You end up spending 20-45% more just for buying it through one of our "specialty" stores or websites for the same thing!
I guess theres a large over head to pay someone to put your sticker on it
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=141160
found this thread here after going all over the net. i'm on page 9 still. lots of practical application.
the tankless version is lookin good to me but which one?
i like the idea of pumping the heat out but don't want to run to waste. i have enough space in the building to put in a huge pool and a pump.
put the pool in full contact with the 8" slab and let the slab and ambient air suck the heat out.
the only thing i'm worried about is i've heard the tankless types may not switch reliably with a pump to recirculate. my 950 mag drives are available for use now.
what controller for this? i like the idea of movable set points so i can play with it some.
this is funny, when you google "controlled environment agriculture" you get a bunch of greenhouse stuff.
"sealed environment agriculture" gets you a bunch of people selling growth chambers for experimental purposes but nothing on rooms.
"closed environment agriculture" gets you into truly sealed spaces but not a lot of info. i did find that some of the larger, more sealed greenhouses are running 1000 ppm at 75-90% rh.
running that rh with big buds doesn't sound like a good idea, but maybe with enough air movement it can be done with cannabis.
i ran my other room at 50-60% to avoid rot.
found this thread here after going all over the net. i'm on page 9 still. lots of practical application.
the tankless version is lookin good to me but which one?
i like the idea of pumping the heat out but don't want to run to waste. i have enough space in the building to put in a huge pool and a pump.
put the pool in full contact with the 8" slab and let the slab and ambient air suck the heat out.
the only thing i'm worried about is i've heard the tankless types may not switch reliably with a pump to recirculate. my 950 mag drives are available for use now.
what controller for this? i like the idea of movable set points so i can play with it some.
this is funny, when you google "controlled environment agriculture" you get a bunch of greenhouse stuff.
"sealed environment agriculture" gets you a bunch of people selling growth chambers for experimental purposes but nothing on rooms.
"closed environment agriculture" gets you into truly sealed spaces but not a lot of info. i did find that some of the larger, more sealed greenhouses are running 1000 ppm at 75-90% rh.
running that rh with big buds doesn't sound like a good idea, but maybe with enough air movement it can be done with cannabis.
i ran my other room at 50-60% to avoid rot.
Wall mount oscillating fans also a must.
Air kings are the only ones that don't break,
I'm still looking for a good wholesale price/supplier of a quality oscillating fan.
Found wholesale bladeless fans those are cool but not powerful enough for our application IMHO.
Another method is hookin an inline fan up to a box that runs the length of your room with adjustable registers. This makes a nice even blanket of air. I really want to do this in my next project.
Sonic does this.
With my 28k wall banger I had to keep it at 63 for an ari temp of 85 in a 7x11 room.
Your acs will be steadily sucking out moisture.
There are badass industrial humidifiers that you can route the output thru PVC, on my list of gro tools otherwise the faran 707 is a good bet. I have the smaller faran model rebranded as the fog jr I think.
Spores are everywhere, the environment for them to grow in isn't.
Don't give them a couch to sleep on and they won't move in.
Look up Janus treatise on growing at the farm.
Most fuzzy logic controllers can be used with either burners or tanks
Brought to you by snail powered intawebz.
Air kings are the only ones that don't break,
I'm still looking for a good wholesale price/supplier of a quality oscillating fan.
Found wholesale bladeless fans those are cool but not powerful enough for our application IMHO.
Another method is hookin an inline fan up to a box that runs the length of your room with adjustable registers. This makes a nice even blanket of air. I really want to do this in my next project.
Sonic does this.
With my 28k wall banger I had to keep it at 63 for an ari temp of 85 in a 7x11 room.
Your acs will be steadily sucking out moisture.
There are badass industrial humidifiers that you can route the output thru PVC, on my list of gro tools otherwise the faran 707 is a good bet. I have the smaller faran model rebranded as the fog jr I think.
Spores are everywhere, the environment for them to grow in isn't.
Don't give them a couch to sleep on and they won't move in.
Look up Janus treatise on growing at the farm.
Most fuzzy logic controllers can be used with either burners or tanks
Brought to you by snail powered intawebz.
hey, bassy! i don't think anyone needs to read the whole thread if they don't have the time. i'm not a thread nazi. look at zeke's guide.
all the theory on this monster is making people believe that it is complicated or difficult to build. you don't need to even understand the theory to grow in one. it works great and is simple to build. easy to operate.
some form of defoliation will always be in my bag of tricks. but it is really an art form not a rigid ritual on a schedule. plants are different so techniques and timing will be too. the key is understanding your strains.
you can shape cannabis plants almost any way you like. light physics are causing me to go to more two dimensional configurations, flattening the plant to get more even light distribution.
along with this i pick off large fully expanded leaves that are blocking light access to bud sights.
also, in concert with flattening and trying to maintain 1500 umols to the closest part of the plant i'll pick off any leaf that protrudes past the plane of most of the buds towards the light as when you measure light there at the closest point to get 1500 umols the buds only inches behind that position are getting much less light. 4" can drop the reading down into the 900 umol range with my lights.
in my upcoming grow i'll show pics of this.
if you want to start growing in one of these show us your set up and you will be off to the races.
if you can tell us how you will grow your plants i'm sure you will get a lot of sound advice.
I'll do that.
I'm currently in flower, four 5g buckets in rdwc through a chiller.
This grow was a hi defoliation grow in veg, and plucking began on day 20 or so in stretch.
Strain is Master Kush, a Hindu Kush/Skunk hybrid. 9-11 week flowering period. I'm 4 weeks in.
I just transplanted 4 Kosher Kush into 5g buckets from seedling in normal DWC chilled by buckets set into outer tubs and small ice jugs rotated in. These seedlings are just getting their 3-5th nodes. Normal plan would be to defoliate in veg and rotate into the RDWC tent after harvest of current grow.
Here's a few pics of my current grow, 29 days into flower. 4'x4' tent.
Pic #1 Day of flip to 12/12
Pic #2-5 is yesterday, D28 of flower
Attachments
6400w
It was pulling out so much humidity it froze over a couple times.
Minisplits ftw they do have kits with charged lines look em uP
http://www.ideal-air.com/products/m...t-air-conditioner---36,000-btu---13-seer.aspx
Your gonna have to dump all that hot air your acs are making if you mount them inside.
I'm sure that there is some sort of equation:
every btu of cooling = xbtus of heat output.
YOu could Dress your room up as a recordin studio being built still waiting for "quietrock"(specialty drywall) and have an hvac guy put in a minisplit. A band with equipment can generate alot of heat with amps computers etc. Minisplits are quiet and most of them have heaters so your neighbor can't be suspicious if it's run in in the dead of winte or in the heat of the summer plus they are so quiet you can't really hear them.
In my neck of the woods we have grow friendly ac dudes.
My 28k ac easily gets my shop into the 95-100* range as soon as I harvest a 3 ton mini split is the first thing on the list.
It was pulling out so much humidity it froze over a couple times.
Minisplits ftw they do have kits with charged lines look em uP
http://www.ideal-air.com/products/m...t-air-conditioner---36,000-btu---13-seer.aspx
Your gonna have to dump all that hot air your acs are making if you mount them inside.
I'm sure that there is some sort of equation:
every btu of cooling = xbtus of heat output.
YOu could Dress your room up as a recordin studio being built still waiting for "quietrock"(specialty drywall) and have an hvac guy put in a minisplit. A band with equipment can generate alot of heat with amps computers etc. Minisplits are quiet and most of them have heaters so your neighbor can't be suspicious if it's run in in the dead of winte or in the heat of the summer plus they are so quiet you can't really hear them.
In my neck of the woods we have grow friendly ac dudes.
My 28k ac easily gets my shop into the 95-100* range as soon as I harvest a 3 ton mini split is the first thing on the list.
D
disciple
nice healthy plants! you know what you are doing. why do you want to change methods? and what kind of lighting are you using?
you won't need solution cooling in the ppk.
* dont ya just hate it when the "token expires" after you wrote a great post?
Anyways,
Using 400w hps & 400w of led atm.
My led is not functioning as advertised. Wrong ballasts they say, and I'm waiting on them. It should be pulling 550w and my kill-a-watt meter shows 408 or so. So I'm waiting for ballasts and will have to fix it. But in the meantime I went and bought 400w hps setup and added it.
Ive not been happy with led results. low yield.
I will finish this grow out with both lights.
Not sure after that if I will go one 600w hps, or add a 400w hps, or use both led and hps like now.
I'm not unhappy with rdwc at all. I like it in fact. I have it dialed in pretty decent. But I am looking to improve my understanding of growing and am doing defoliation now. Trying to learn it anyways.
Anyways,
Using 400w hps & 400w of led atm.
My led is not functioning as advertised. Wrong ballasts they say, and I'm waiting on them. It should be pulling 550w and my kill-a-watt meter shows 408 or so. So I'm waiting for ballasts and will have to fix it. But in the meantime I went and bought 400w hps setup and added it.
Ive not been happy with led results. low yield.
I will finish this grow out with both lights.
Not sure after that if I will go one 600w hps, or add a 400w hps, or use both led and hps like now.
I'm not unhappy with rdwc at all. I like it in fact. I have it dialed in pretty decent. But I am looking to improve my understanding of growing and am doing defoliation now. Trying to learn it anyways.
thanks! i've been waiting on led development for about 6 years now. i know that some day they will be powerful enough to light large plants. with minimum heat.
also the fact that they run on dc power would make them very easy to drive with home made generators.
i was slumming around here last night and looked at the defoliation thread for the first time in a year or more. still the same old bs. it generates some kind of an emotional response in some people. to me it's just another tool in the bag. i use it when i need it.
in my current grow i've got six strains. all from dr green thumb. all from seed. c-99 pineapple cut, the dope, good dog, the bubba og, sour 13, and chemdawg g13.
these strains grow quite differently. the c-99 and the good dog want to stretch in veg and get real lanky with long inter-nodal spaces so i will top them early and defoliate them one time in veg at around 2 weeks to try to get them to tighten up and get a few more bud sites. when done early in veg they remain much shorter and bushier. more in line with the other plants shape.
i'l be growing them all tied to a fence this time and trying to keep them all about the same stature will be a challenge.
on the other 4 plants, at about 2 weeks i will start pulling large, fully expanded leaves that are between the light and developing bud sites, one or two at a time, just whenever i see one. this is done while starting to tie them back.
this triggers a growth spurt in the otherwise larfy bud sites in the center of the plant. they turn into significant branches with decent bud weight.
my goal here is to train all the plants into a 2 dimensional plane no more than 4 feet high with most bud in a 3 ft band.
when you are growing one strain you can find a specific technique that applies uniquely to it. repeatable timing on a schedule. i was able to do this with the sweet tooth. i knew the plant and how it responded.
but since going on this strain binge i've discovered that these plants are all different in their responses.
it's kind of like sculpting, but with plants. you envision the shape you want first and then try to get it. observing the plants reactions as you do so.
on the defo thread you guys are dealing with a type of mindset that you cannot do anything about. you can present all the logic, reasoning, and evidence you want and not get anywhere.
these people are usually good growers in the sense that they produce a nice harvest every time but that doesn't mean that they have growing dicked and don't need to learn any more. with some of them i get the impression that they got to a point where they were able to favorably compare themselves to other growers and then said ,"fuck all this learning and experimentation, i got it down now".
i sincerely hope that my own learning curve has just begun as that means that i have the rest of my life to study and learn.
also the fact that they run on dc power would make them very easy to drive with home made generators.
i was slumming around here last night and looked at the defoliation thread for the first time in a year or more. still the same old bs. it generates some kind of an emotional response in some people. to me it's just another tool in the bag. i use it when i need it.
in my current grow i've got six strains. all from dr green thumb. all from seed. c-99 pineapple cut, the dope, good dog, the bubba og, sour 13, and chemdawg g13.
these strains grow quite differently. the c-99 and the good dog want to stretch in veg and get real lanky with long inter-nodal spaces so i will top them early and defoliate them one time in veg at around 2 weeks to try to get them to tighten up and get a few more bud sites. when done early in veg they remain much shorter and bushier. more in line with the other plants shape.
i'l be growing them all tied to a fence this time and trying to keep them all about the same stature will be a challenge.
on the other 4 plants, at about 2 weeks i will start pulling large, fully expanded leaves that are between the light and developing bud sites, one or two at a time, just whenever i see one. this is done while starting to tie them back.
this triggers a growth spurt in the otherwise larfy bud sites in the center of the plant. they turn into significant branches with decent bud weight.
my goal here is to train all the plants into a 2 dimensional plane no more than 4 feet high with most bud in a 3 ft band.
when you are growing one strain you can find a specific technique that applies uniquely to it. repeatable timing on a schedule. i was able to do this with the sweet tooth. i knew the plant and how it responded.
but since going on this strain binge i've discovered that these plants are all different in their responses.
it's kind of like sculpting, but with plants. you envision the shape you want first and then try to get it. observing the plants reactions as you do so.
on the defo thread you guys are dealing with a type of mindset that you cannot do anything about. you can present all the logic, reasoning, and evidence you want and not get anywhere.
these people are usually good growers in the sense that they produce a nice harvest every time but that doesn't mean that they have growing dicked and don't need to learn any more. with some of them i get the impression that they got to a point where they were able to favorably compare themselves to other growers and then said ,"fuck all this learning and experimentation, i got it down now".
i sincerely hope that my own learning curve has just begun as that means that i have the rest of my life to study and learn.
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