Panasonic Whisper Fan Carbon Scrubber Tutorial: Quietest most efficient fan ever!
- Thread starter Bulénath
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tokatronic
Member
Are they only 110 Volt, or can it be operated on 220-240?
The ones I ordered were only 110. Not sure if they come in 220 models.
Bulénath
Member
My only concern would be the L-brackets, having to be 1.5 inches at most, would have little support for the bed of carbon. The amount of carbon you need would vary depending on many factors that are unique to your grow...But as a general guideline, for my 150hps cab, flowing in full bloom (4oz dried), my 80cfm Panasonic required only 1 inch of carbon, or about a pound I'd say.
Let us know what your results are.
i chose to push through it because with the carbon filter on the outside of the cab, i save more space, i have my 190 modified to be only about 8 inches tall, and even that is way too much space being used up, i have to wedge my cool tube in at an angle because of it and there is less light reaching the area in the corner under the exhaust. also with the carbon filter on the outside of the cab it doubles as a light trap. i have thought about mounting it above it pulling through the carbon filter in the cab and getting rid of the air cooled hood but i doubt that the increase in flow from pulling rather than pushing would offset the added heat of switching to a standard light over an air cooled one, im using a 400w hps btw, what do you guys think? would it be in my benefit? would the fan be much louder on the outside of the cab than the inside? would pulling give me so much more flow that i could ditch the cool tube with no temp rises? my cab is very crowded with plants, at week 4 of flowering, so i have no extra room to spare in the cab, either i have the fan in pushing through the filter on the outside, or the fan on the outside pulling through the filter on the inside with no cooltube...
Bulénath
Member
You know your situation best, so it is hard for me to say what set up is best for you and your situation. Since almost two weeks have passed, I assume you already figured it out by now?
When it comes to any HID bulb, especially 400w+ bulbs which get kinda hot- if you already incorporated the cool tube into your temperature control/ventilation set up then stick with it. Lord knows what will happen if you set that 400w bulb free in the middle of your grow. Besides, you supposed to be dropping the temperature as the flowering progresses.
When it comes to any HID bulb, especially 400w+ bulbs which get kinda hot- if you already incorporated the cool tube into your temperature control/ventilation set up then stick with it. Lord knows what will happen if you set that 400w bulb free in the middle of your grow. Besides, you supposed to be dropping the temperature as the flowering progresses.
Bulénath
Member
Aloha prei.lee,
Although I have done limited research on the different voltages that the Panasonic Whisper Fans are *possibly* equipped with, it does seem that you may need a converter. I have searched around for non-120v models and could not find anything. However that does not necessarily mean that non-120v Panasonic Whisper Fans don't exist. Please keep us posted on your endeavor!
Although I have done limited research on the different voltages that the Panasonic Whisper Fans are *possibly* equipped with, it does seem that you may need a converter. I have searched around for non-120v models and could not find anything. However that does not necessarily mean that non-120v Panasonic Whisper Fans don't exist. Please keep us posted on your endeavor!
T
thesloppy
So, this is a great thread, and I used it to build my own Panasonic scrubber, which has been running without any problems for 2 years. That said, there's one thing that has continued to bother me:
The tutorial doesn't mention anything about sealing the fan, and out of the box these fans (or at least mine did) have tons of open seams. If you don't seal all the seams, it'll pull as much air as it can through the naked seams, ignoring the filter you've just built.
I swears I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in the 20 pages of this thread, but it's certainly possible I missed it...or maybe I just got a mutant fan, and everybody else's arrived air tight. That said, though it borders on common sense, it still might not be obvious to the newb grower/DIYer: make sure your fan is entirely air-tight by sealing all of the seams of the fan with duct tape, silicon sealant, or something similar, or your filter won't work properly.
The tutorial doesn't mention anything about sealing the fan, and out of the box these fans (or at least mine did) have tons of open seams. If you don't seal all the seams, it'll pull as much air as it can through the naked seams, ignoring the filter you've just built.
I swears I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in the 20 pages of this thread, but it's certainly possible I missed it...or maybe I just got a mutant fan, and everybody else's arrived air tight. That said, though it borders on common sense, it still might not be obvious to the newb grower/DIYer: make sure your fan is entirely air-tight by sealing all of the seams of the fan with duct tape, silicon sealant, or something similar, or your filter won't work properly.
Bulénath
Member
You are definitely 100% right about that, thesloppy. Thanks for the input!
However, I personally never found it too big of a problem, though do suggest following your advice.
That said, dealing with the smell when you open the cabinet doors every day to water, train and do daily maintenance is without a doubt the real, never ending, uphill battle against odor control.
Edit:
Both of my Panasonic Inline Fans have much larger gaps in the seams compared to the Ceiling Fan models.
However, I personally never found it too big of a problem, though do suggest following your advice.
That said, dealing with the smell when you open the cabinet doors every day to water, train and do daily maintenance is without a doubt the real, never ending, uphill battle against odor control.
Edit:
Both of my Panasonic Inline Fans have much larger gaps in the seams compared to the Ceiling Fan models.
i thought i would mention, the 190cfm model, has a circular 8 inch intake, which perfectly fit the carbon filter i made with an 8 inch hydro basket inside a 10 inch hydro basket, lots of surface area, 1 inch thick carbon all around, the thing sucked almost as much air as it did without the carbon filter, i was really amazed at how much better at sucking through the carbon filter than blowing out, unfortunately i realized that by moving the carbon filter inside the cab i had no light filter and nothing to muffle the sound, it got noticeably louder after that and the carbon filter i mentioned took up too much space that my hood needed to go. i ended up setting it back up so it blows out through the carbon filter, it's working fine so far for this grow, but they really do work much much much better sucking through a carbon filter than blowing through one!!!
i'm thinking i want to go with an 80 cfm model next round, dedicated to scrubbing, and something else really small and quiet just for the cooltube, so i can get my cab even quieter than 1.3 sones. i was at menards the other day and i noticed about 2-3 other brands with really high end " super quiet" models, some were very expensive, like .6 sones on a 80cfm for 200 bucks...has anybody tried a similar competitor model? or is panasonic actually the quietest all around for all models compared to other super quiet units?
i figure once i switch to a multiple fan setup i can use this big honkin one, build an oak box for it, so that it looks like an end table or something, but when i want to smoke, turn on a switch, and bam, an end table with a 190cfm blower/carbon filter huffing away right next too me, that would come in really handy! hell even if i burned something cooking it would clear out a room pretty fast...
also, i know a huge part of the noise i'm experiencing is this aluminum ducting, yeah it's nice and shiny and all that, but i'm wondering, couldn't i use one of the plastic types that are nice and smooth inside to cut down noise? or are they just as bad? i am living in an appartment, and the sound is fine with me, and my landlord never ever is around, but i am dealing with a fair amount of paranoia and the best way for me to combat that and the stress it causes is to constantly work on making my appartment and cab look more stealth and legit, sound it a huge factor, as of right now when i leave for work i have my hepa filter and radio playing in the room with my cab to muffle the sound but without them it's pretty noticable, and even with them on you hear it if your within a foot or two of the cab. from the ventalation stuff i have been reading up on it seems that the quietest setup would be a cooltube sealed from the grow with a small fan keeping the air flowing through it, and a small fan pulling the slightly warm stinky air through a filter to the outside of the grow, to maintain a vacume in the cab. im guessing 2 small fans would be quieter than one big one, especially if i have to mount it wrong just to fit it in my cab, lol this fan really is a lifesaver though, i'm on week 8 of flowering right now, going to 11 and i wouldn't be here if it werent for my trusty, strong, reliable old panasonic!
i'm thinking i want to go with an 80 cfm model next round, dedicated to scrubbing, and something else really small and quiet just for the cooltube, so i can get my cab even quieter than 1.3 sones. i was at menards the other day and i noticed about 2-3 other brands with really high end " super quiet" models, some were very expensive, like .6 sones on a 80cfm for 200 bucks...has anybody tried a similar competitor model? or is panasonic actually the quietest all around for all models compared to other super quiet units?
i figure once i switch to a multiple fan setup i can use this big honkin one, build an oak box for it, so that it looks like an end table or something, but when i want to smoke, turn on a switch, and bam, an end table with a 190cfm blower/carbon filter huffing away right next too me, that would come in really handy! hell even if i burned something cooking it would clear out a room pretty fast...
also, i know a huge part of the noise i'm experiencing is this aluminum ducting, yeah it's nice and shiny and all that, but i'm wondering, couldn't i use one of the plastic types that are nice and smooth inside to cut down noise? or are they just as bad? i am living in an appartment, and the sound is fine with me, and my landlord never ever is around, but i am dealing with a fair amount of paranoia and the best way for me to combat that and the stress it causes is to constantly work on making my appartment and cab look more stealth and legit, sound it a huge factor, as of right now when i leave for work i have my hepa filter and radio playing in the room with my cab to muffle the sound but without them it's pretty noticable, and even with them on you hear it if your within a foot or two of the cab. from the ventalation stuff i have been reading up on it seems that the quietest setup would be a cooltube sealed from the grow with a small fan keeping the air flowing through it, and a small fan pulling the slightly warm stinky air through a filter to the outside of the grow, to maintain a vacume in the cab. im guessing 2 small fans would be quieter than one big one, especially if i have to mount it wrong just to fit it in my cab, lol this fan really is a lifesaver though, i'm on week 8 of flowering right now, going to 11 and i wouldn't be here if it werent for my trusty, strong, reliable old panasonic!
Bulénath
Member
I have no experience with different fans other than Vortex 172cfm, 449cfm models. I currently own four 449cfm vortex's for directly cooling 600HPS air-cooled hoods. They are fucking loud.
I have recently discovered that where you aim your exhaust plays a significant role on how loud the fan noise is perceived. In my new 600HPS single cabinet, my 449cfm Vortex was venting air toward the inside of the house, rather than toward the walls/outside. It was so damn loud I had to take the dissemble part of the cabinet, move it across the room, and aim the exhaust in a different direction (away from my living room). The perceived noise was cut by half, thankfully.
Also, having an air condition near by helps a lot with disguising the noise factor. Air conditions are a must have aspect of growing ganja, in my opinion. They really help to control both temperature, humidity, smell, among other factors. But that is just my technique...
I have been doing experiments with different types of air conditions, including portables (which have waaay different effects of humidity and Co2 level control opposed to window units).
But back on track, you are right about the ducting. It does cause more noise and drag thus loss of efficiency. A tip that was mentioned a while back by someone here or on O.G. (five years back), was using perfectly measured PVC instead of aluminum ducting, and eliminating all bends/angles. In my opinion, the best set ups have perfectly straight, direct exhaust systems that are perfectly aligned and vent through no unnecessary lengths. Hope this helps a bit. Peace
I have recently discovered that where you aim your exhaust plays a significant role on how loud the fan noise is perceived. In my new 600HPS single cabinet, my 449cfm Vortex was venting air toward the inside of the house, rather than toward the walls/outside. It was so damn loud I had to take the dissemble part of the cabinet, move it across the room, and aim the exhaust in a different direction (away from my living room). The perceived noise was cut by half, thankfully.
Also, having an air condition near by helps a lot with disguising the noise factor. Air conditions are a must have aspect of growing ganja, in my opinion. They really help to control both temperature, humidity, smell, among other factors. But that is just my technique...
I have been doing experiments with different types of air conditions, including portables (which have waaay different effects of humidity and Co2 level control opposed to window units).
But back on track, you are right about the ducting. It does cause more noise and drag thus loss of efficiency. A tip that was mentioned a while back by someone here or on O.G. (five years back), was using perfectly measured PVC instead of aluminum ducting, and eliminating all bends/angles. In my opinion, the best set ups have perfectly straight, direct exhaust systems that are perfectly aligned and vent through no unnecessary lengths. Hope this helps a bit. Peace
Bulénath
Member
This is one case where I would like to replace the aluminum ducting for PVC.
This is my new cabinet. It is my sixth cabinet ever, and each time I improve my designs. I got to say this now, stepping up from a closet grower with two 150 bulbs, to my own house with two full bedrooms dedicated and 1800w of flower is a totally different game. I really wish I went with Panasonics for the Upper exhausts instead of more Vortex's. But I can always swap them out
You'll notice that of all my fans, only one has a carbon filter. Well, since I have my own place far from society, that is fenced off, odor isn't TOO much of a problem. I ran the entire last 1200w grow with NO odor control. Occasionally, a trusted relative or friend will stop by and I will ask them "so how does the house smell?". Everyone says..."ah, just like you opened a small baggie a minute ago, nothing strong". I attribute that to keeping low temps, having carbon srubbers in the 150HPS cabinets in the same room (which definitely help to reduce the smell a little), using lots of air fresheners in living rooms, keeping windows closed, using window fans in the house to direct air out of the house in the right way, etc. So for that matter, I am using just one can filter so far not necessarily for odor control, but more to keep dust particles away and keep the air clean. With that 449 cfm vortex pulling on directly on the hood, with direct exhaust that is perfectly aligned, with nothing on the intake end, my bulb is running super cool Although, I will start using more odor control from now on, just wanted to experiment a little with the last grow...
Don't get me wrong though people. To most of you, the thought of no odor control sounds horribly insane. But I am in a really, really secluded safe environment and have supreme control over my empire. I guess a lot has changed from my closet growing days when I lived with roommates who had a zero tolerance policy on smell. Don't let my change in situation discredit my never ending research on the perfect odor control and ventilation set ups! I am still as meticulous as ever when it comes to the details!
I am always working on improving the intake. Notice I crammed as many 2" PVC holes as possible. Many L-brackets are used for support between all the holes in floor. So many holes in the floor does compensate the structural integrity so L-brackets are used to keep the spaces between the holes from cracking or breaking. This floor print is 3.6 x 3.6 feet. This is my best intake so far. 28 x2" holes for 3 x 6" exhausts. Not a bad ratio, but not the best, for it is barely a 1:1 surface area ratio.
Here is what I mean: three 6" inch holes is equal to the surface area twenty-seven 2" holes.
Although the PVC is 2" PVC, the rim of the PVC can still fit around a 2-1/4" hole no problem. So although the PVC is 2", the actual hole the PVC fits over is cut at 2-1/4". If one is careful when super-gluing the PVC to the floor, the rim of the PVC should rest nearly flush with hole, leaving no "lip". This creates less drag on the intake.
By the way, the new cabinet is made from 3/4" Birch/Oak veneer! heheD
This is my new cabinet. It is my sixth cabinet ever, and each time I improve my designs. I got to say this now, stepping up from a closet grower with two 150 bulbs, to my own house with two full bedrooms dedicated and 1800w of flower is a totally different game. I really wish I went with Panasonics for the Upper exhausts instead of more Vortex's. But I can always swap them out
You'll notice that of all my fans, only one has a carbon filter. Well, since I have my own place far from society, that is fenced off, odor isn't TOO much of a problem. I ran the entire last 1200w grow with NO odor control. Occasionally, a trusted relative or friend will stop by and I will ask them "so how does the house smell?". Everyone says..."ah, just like you opened a small baggie a minute ago, nothing strong". I attribute that to keeping low temps, having carbon srubbers in the 150HPS cabinets in the same room (which definitely help to reduce the smell a little), using lots of air fresheners in living rooms, keeping windows closed, using window fans in the house to direct air out of the house in the right way, etc. So for that matter, I am using just one can filter so far not necessarily for odor control, but more to keep dust particles away and keep the air clean. With that 449 cfm vortex pulling on directly on the hood, with direct exhaust that is perfectly aligned, with nothing on the intake end, my bulb is running super cool
Although, I will start using more odor control from now on, just wanted to experiment a little with the last grow...Don't get me wrong though people. To most of you, the thought of no odor control sounds horribly insane. But I am in a really, really secluded safe environment and have supreme control over my empire. I guess a lot has changed from my closet growing days when I lived with roommates who had a zero tolerance policy on smell. Don't let my change in situation discredit my never ending research on the perfect odor control and ventilation set ups! I am still as meticulous as ever when it comes to the details!
I am always working on improving the intake. Notice I crammed as many 2" PVC holes as possible. Many L-brackets are used for support between all the holes in floor. So many holes in the floor does compensate the structural integrity so L-brackets are used to keep the spaces between the holes from cracking or breaking. This floor print is 3.6 x 3.6 feet. This is my best intake so far. 28 x2" holes for 3 x 6" exhausts. Not a bad ratio, but not the best, for it is barely a 1:1 surface area ratio.
Here is what I mean: three 6" inch holes is equal to the surface area twenty-seven 2" holes.
Although the PVC is 2" PVC, the rim of the PVC can still fit around a 2-1/4" hole no problem. So although the PVC is 2", the actual hole the PVC fits over is cut at 2-1/4". If one is careful when super-gluing the PVC to the floor, the rim of the PVC should rest nearly flush with hole, leaving no "lip". This creates less drag on the intake.
By the way, the new cabinet is made from 3/4" Birch/Oak veneer! hehe
DCarforce420
Member
Sick setup Bulenath.
In my next cab, I'm going to be trying the 110cfm FV 11vq5 model with a small duct muffler to cut the sound down even more. After using these fans for a few years, it seems to me that almost ALL The noise is the sound of air rushing out of the exhaust. They are very quiet fans, but I would like to quiet them down a bit more. I have the space in my new cab to dedicate the upper portion to exhaust, so I can fit a muffler on my fan with one 90 degree angle. Worth a shot.
In my next cab, I'm going to be trying the 110cfm FV 11vq5 model with a small duct muffler to cut the sound down even more. After using these fans for a few years, it seems to me that almost ALL The noise is the sound of air rushing out of the exhaust. They are very quiet fans, but I would like to quiet them down a bit more. I have the space in my new cab to dedicate the upper portion to exhaust, so I can fit a muffler on my fan with one 90 degree angle. Worth a shot.
Bulénath
Member
Very interesting. I can't wait to see how it plays out for you!
The pros and cons in your case are pretty straight forward.
Extra drag from the right angle and the RPM increase to power through that right angle and THEN additional muffler section and all the additional noise + stress (static pressure) on the fan that comes with that set up VS.
the added effects of the muffler itself.
It almost seems you'll be paying money to decrease efficiency and it may not have that dramatic of an effect on the sound decrease after all. With all the money, hard work, designing/redesigning, etc, I would contemplate alternatives as well. I mean, that fan is about half a sone right? That is pretty quiet to begin with.
Is there anyway you can change the direction of the vent, or the placement of the grow-box itself so its perceived sound is lessened? If you could somehow eliminate that right angle I'd think you'd be golden. It is that which will compensate your full intention.
Carforce420
Member
Oh I hear you Bulenath, for sure. But the "wooshing" sound on the 110cfm model fan is quite intense. I don't believe I'd have to mitigate much of that "wooshing" sound at all to overcome even a moderate increase in motor noise, but we shall see. Fortunately HTG supply is down the street from me and they sell some cheesy premade mufflers so I'll only be out the price of a 90 degree elbow if it fails. The cab is sitting half complete ripe for testing a few different ventilation setups atm.
Due to the nature of this cabinet - it is a dresser with no visible exhaust/intake, ie intakes on the bottom exhaust port on the top back left - i must use the 90 degree angle with the muffler unfortunately.
Due to the nature of this cabinet - it is a dresser with no visible exhaust/intake, ie intakes on the bottom exhaust port on the top back left - i must use the 90 degree angle with the muffler unfortunately.
