Tutorial Organics for Beginners
- Thread starter BurnOne
- Start date
I can't believe I've skipped this thread for so long. I'm definitely going this route next.
I used bottled organic nutes for awhile and the plants came out pretty nice but I got tired of all the bottles and crap. I switched over to KISS and it's definitely easy but it seems like I've always got some sort of problem popping up, especially as I get further into flower. I question if my flavors and aromas are as good w/synthetics, too.
I'm reading through the thread from the beginning and it's answering lots of my questions. I've still got a couple but I'll hold off until I read everything. Thanks to B1 and everyone else for all this info. I can't wait to get started.
I used bottled organic nutes for awhile and the plants came out pretty nice but I got tired of all the bottles and crap. I switched over to KISS and it's definitely easy but it seems like I've always got some sort of problem popping up, especially as I get further into flower. I question if my flavors and aromas are as good w/synthetics, too.
I'm reading through the thread from the beginning and it's answering lots of my questions. I've still got a couple but I'll hold off until I read everything. Thanks to B1 and everyone else for all this info. I can't wait to get started.
Ok then, I just finished reading from page 1 and I'm super excited to get going. I'm going to KEEP IT SIMPLE and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS. So, here's my thoughts and questions.
I'm going with LC #1 and nute recipe #1. I don't have any LK and I probably won't buy any. I do have some GO Diamond Black liquid humic acids on hand if that's a good substitute to add to the EWC tea. If not, no big deal. And FWIW, I've got the rest of the GO lineup on hand, including fish and seaweed and everything else.
First off, what are your thoughts on coco/peat mix? I'm a coco fan but I know peat has organic benefits not found in coco so I assume a mix might give me a 'best of both worlds.' Suggestions on a happy medium? 50/50 to start and adjust to taste?
FYI--I'm also planning on mixing up a batch with straight peat for my outdoor peppers and tomatoes in containers. I tried coco/perlite a few years ago but it dried out too fast for my needs. That's an advantage for my indoor cannabis but not for my outdoor veggies.
I'm a fan of silica / DE and the following definitely caught my eye but I"ll wait til my next grow to start experimenting. Any thoughts...
Next, I've got <4' height, floor to light, in my grow cab so I'm a bit limited by my container size. I supercrop and supplement with a bit of LST to control my height and I saw that it's recommended to give the girls a bit of extra distance with this mix. I've been having excellent results with 1 G smart pots so that's what I'd like to try first. I'm assuming I'll need to supplement in flowering so just in case, I'm thinking guano tea or maybe a bottle of fish like nute recipe #5? Experiences with either? Recommendations either way?
I'm out of town tomorrow but hope to grab most of my ingredients this weekend. And on the plus side, it looks like there's a couple local EWC providers around. I'll contact them ASAP for more info.
I already feel like I'm home. Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread. Your efforts are appreciated.
keeping it natural
jd
I'm going with LC #1 and nute recipe #1. I don't have any LK and I probably won't buy any. I do have some GO Diamond Black liquid humic acids on hand if that's a good substitute to add to the EWC tea. If not, no big deal. And FWIW, I've got the rest of the GO lineup on hand, including fish and seaweed and everything else.
First off, what are your thoughts on coco/peat mix? I'm a coco fan but I know peat has organic benefits not found in coco so I assume a mix might give me a 'best of both worlds.' Suggestions on a happy medium? 50/50 to start and adjust to taste?
FYI--I'm also planning on mixing up a batch with straight peat for my outdoor peppers and tomatoes in containers. I tried coco/perlite a few years ago but it dried out too fast for my needs. That's an advantage for my indoor cannabis but not for my outdoor veggies.
I'm a fan of silica / DE and the following definitely caught my eye but I"ll wait til my next grow to start experimenting. Any thoughts...
Next, I've got <4' height, floor to light, in my grow cab so I'm a bit limited by my container size. I supercrop and supplement with a bit of LST to control my height and I saw that it's recommended to give the girls a bit of extra distance with this mix. I've been having excellent results with 1 G smart pots so that's what I'd like to try first. I'm assuming I'll need to supplement in flowering so just in case, I'm thinking guano tea or maybe a bottle of fish like nute recipe #5? Experiences with either? Recommendations either way?
I'm out of town tomorrow but hope to grab most of my ingredients this weekend. And on the plus side, it looks like there's a couple local EWC providers around. I'll contact them ASAP for more info.
I already feel like I'm home. Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread. Your efforts are appreciated.
keeping it natural
jd
M
MrSterling
I'm digging through this thread, but I have a question that I hope you guys won't mind me asking without getting through all 262. I'm understanding so far the role of bone and blood meal in organic mixes, supplying Nitrogen and Phosphorus sources. What supplies the Potassium though? The only thing I'm seeing so far is Kelp Meal, but it doesn't seem that the 1-0-4 rating on kelp meal would be enough to sustain the plant/the microbes sustaining a plant. Is this one of those cases where the numbers just don't mean as much in organics, or am I missing a source of K in this equation?
RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutrients like Blood meal, Bone meal and Kelp meal...
1 tablespoon Blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons Bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
If you want to use organic nutrients like Blood meal, Bone meal and Kelp meal...
1 tablespoon Blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons Bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
M
MrSterling
Papulz, I understand that. What I'm asking for is an explanation of why those low numbers 1-0-4, specifically the Potassium in the kelp, are sufficient for growing.
I'm not a believer in the use of Jersey Greensand indoors. Greensand releases its K slowly over the course of years and is more of an amendment for heavy outdoor soils that are impacted. It's impractical for any soil that isn't reused for at least that time.
Thanks for taking the time to reply though,
- Mr. S
I'm not a believer in the use of Jersey Greensand indoors. Greensand releases its K slowly over the course of years and is more of an amendment for heavy outdoor soils that are impacted. It's impractical for any soil that isn't reused for at least that time.
Thanks for taking the time to reply though,
- Mr. S
I'm in business! I picked up all my ingredients today, including a big bag of some nice local EWC but I doubt if I'll have time to mix it all up until tomorrow or Tues. I'm leaning towards 50/50 on the peat/coir at this point and I'm not planning any alterations or substitutions to the mix. (except no LK, but maybe a dash of GO liquid humic instead) I bought a small bag of greensand, too. It was only $9 and I always reuse all my soils so I might as well have it in there.
I've got some pepper cuttings in beer cups that are ready to be potted up and I've got a couple Skunkman youngsters that I need to clone soon. IIRC LC1 can be used immediately but it gets better after a few days. I'll go back and check but I need to get mixing.
I haven't been this excited about my garden in quite awhile! Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread. I'm 100% confident that your experiences will guarantee my success. Gracias, mis amigos.
jd
I've got some pepper cuttings in beer cups that are ready to be potted up and I've got a couple Skunkman youngsters that I need to clone soon. IIRC LC1 can be used immediately but it gets better after a few days. I'll go back and check but I need to get mixing.
I haven't been this excited about my garden in quite awhile! Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread. I'm 100% confident that your experiences will guarantee my success. Gracias, mis amigos.
jd
i mixed up some lc2 useing blackgold organic soil its, peat, worm, and pummes compost 5-0-0 i added dr earth powders to that only had liquid maxicrop and lk. on the R.3 the liquid feeds it doesnt say what mix to use this with? Also does sams dry worm castings work for teas or is the micros dead?
I also can get paturized aged horse manure not composted.
i think that steeping or pasturizeing still makes a good nutrient solution mushroom growers say it still leaves the good micros and kills bugs,is there any threads about steeping things here? I cant use ff , or even perilite etc from my grow shop they have root aphids and keep everything altogether outside good thing the bg is tottaly bug free some how and it test vegged very well strait from the bag.
I also can get paturized aged horse manure not composted.
i think that steeping or pasturizeing still makes a good nutrient solution mushroom growers say it still leaves the good micros and kills bugs,is there any threads about steeping things here? I cant use ff , or even perilite etc from my grow shop they have root aphids and keep everything altogether outside good thing the bg is tottaly bug free some how and it test vegged very well strait from the bag.
ok i get it now with recipe 1 or 2 you only need water, but would it not hurt to use a tea with smaller amounts to induce more microbs, i tried a water only mix once and failed it sat a month but it was a peat block from lowes and pretty dried out wc.i think it needed sum myco,s or fresh compost to get it going
NPK numbers are an inaccurate tool for measuring organic amendments because they represent available, ie soluble, nutrients.
what those numbers do not show is the nutrient value that is locked up in an insoluble form. the soil must digest these materials to convert them to a plant-available form.
green planet
Member
Thanks for the referal (Teaming with Microbes and Compost Tea Making)sometime back BurnOne. IT HAS COMPLETELY CHANGED MY WHOLE OUTLOOK AND MADE GROWING VERY EXCITING.
Can you please clarify. A Plant can 'choose' and control the number bacteria and Fungi via its exudates. These are eaten by nemaodes and protozoa. What is left is absorbed by roots as nutrients. At different growing stages the populations of bacteria and fungi increase or decrease depending on nutrient needs of the plant.
Does this mean. PH is controlled via exudates which either attract more or less bacteria in case of alkaline and more fungi in case of acidic soils.Is it imperative to feed a Backteria airated tea.
If the plant gets is nutrient needs via microbes (given that all necessary nutrients are in soil) To what extent can one put to much or to little nutrients in to peat moss or peat mixes.
To what extend will you have a salt build up. Do microbes use salts ? (At end of flowering using organic soil and tea is it normal to have yellowing of leaves in the last 2,5 weeks in some plants while others remain green or have turned a dark purple colour.)
Thanks again will keep on reading. REALLY APPRICIATED YOUR HELP AND ASSISTANCE and those of other users on this post.
Can you please clarify. A Plant can 'choose' and control the number bacteria and Fungi via its exudates. These are eaten by nemaodes and protozoa. What is left is absorbed by roots as nutrients. At different growing stages the populations of bacteria and fungi increase or decrease depending on nutrient needs of the plant.
Does this mean. PH is controlled via exudates which either attract more or less bacteria in case of alkaline and more fungi in case of acidic soils.Is it imperative to feed a Backteria airated tea.
If the plant gets is nutrient needs via microbes (given that all necessary nutrients are in soil) To what extent can one put to much or to little nutrients in to peat moss or peat mixes.
To what extend will you have a salt build up. Do microbes use salts ? (At end of flowering using organic soil and tea is it normal to have yellowing of leaves in the last 2,5 weeks in some plants while others remain green or have turned a dark purple colour.)
Thanks again will keep on reading. REALLY APPRICIATED YOUR HELP AND ASSISTANCE and those of other users on this post.
I like to keep it simple. Without all the "science", all you need to do is make the food and minerals available to the plant. Make a buffet. Mixes like blood, bone and kelp along with humates and dolomite in the soil mix make this happen.
As far as pH and the way I understand it in this type of growing, the plant can take nutrition through the roots in a medium that is outside the optimum pH of the plant. Shifts in pH don't lockout the uptake of food like in chemical growing.
The bacteria are there. But, they die off and are replaced with new ones. Keeping them healthy and reproducing is crucial.
Organic nutes are very low in salt. Not an issue.
Nitrogen is the only thing that can harm our plants if too much is used. Phosphorous and potassium are merely wasted if you use a little too much.
The proper amount of nitrogen in flowering will keep the leaves nice and green. Not too much and not too little. Purple leaves either come from the genetics of the plant or from a phosphorous deficiency.
Burn1
As far as pH and the way I understand it in this type of growing, the plant can take nutrition through the roots in a medium that is outside the optimum pH of the plant. Shifts in pH don't lockout the uptake of food like in chemical growing.
The bacteria are there. But, they die off and are replaced with new ones. Keeping them healthy and reproducing is crucial.
Organic nutes are very low in salt. Not an issue.
Nitrogen is the only thing that can harm our plants if too much is used. Phosphorous and potassium are merely wasted if you use a little too much.
The proper amount of nitrogen in flowering will keep the leaves nice and green. Not too much and not too little. Purple leaves either come from the genetics of the plant or from a phosphorous deficiency.
Burn1
highroller614
Active member
I have a question BurnOne. I'm using your mix #2. I'm feeding with #3 the tea recipe. I've been using the same soil for the last 3 growing seasons outside. During the winter and early spring the soil sits. Is it ok to replant in the same soil and just get back to business as usual with feeding. Because a couple plants are showing some nute difficency. i was going to check soil ph also. Anyway thanks a lot.....
BurnOne I haven't read all this thread and will probable won't too long for my ADA Ass. Wanted to say thanks for keeping this going. I use a Super Soil mix water only mostly and I love it. I like how you broke your mix down into 1,2,3 very simple. You explain things well. Easy to understand thanks. Aloha
Check your soil pH? Only if you want extra stress.
I'd stir it up at least twice a week. Better yet, do this with your reused soil...
Three Little Birds Method
40 gallons used soil
4 cups alfalfa meal
4 cups bone meal
4 cups kelp meal
4 cups powdered dolomite lime
30 pound bag of earthworm castings . . .
That’s the basic recipe . . .
However we also like to use
4 cups of Greensand
4 cups of Rock Phosphate
4 cups of diatomaceous earth
I'm ADOS. Attention Deficit... Oh Shiny!
Burn1
highroller614
Active member
Thanks for the timely response!....After I use the the three birds method will that affect my feeding schedule on my plants? Im also seeing some of the same issues with my indoor plants also. Ive been using the same soil for the last 18 months. Do you recomend the same recipe also for my indoor? By the way your recipe has made my friends thinking I'm some kind of guru of growing. Thanks for your help and stay toking my friend........
Burn1 i noticed that you edited the guano tea food recipes. i was wondering why did you take out Arcadian kelp mix and liquid karma? i assume its because the ingredients in those are either already available to the plants or they are better given in a different application. can you enlighten me please? thanks! 
