No-Till thread?

[who dat is]

I was running notill before it was cool

Haha! Sorry man I had to

 

[MileHighGlass]

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Haha! Sorry man I had to

I expected as much from someone. It was well deserved.

As I get older I find myself more and more distanced from the "kids."

That's how statements like that end up coming out of my mouth.

All in all any movement that promotes organic gardening is mostly good. However the "kids" get sucked into thinking there is only one way, and then they have blinders on.

The blinders may never come off, or it may take years for them to come off. In that time progression in the industry has slowed. I've seen it happen over and over again.

Elect a demigod, follow what the demigod says to a T, eventually elect another demigod, follow what that demigod says to a T.

Instead of thinking for themselves the "kids" that get into gardening just follow these demigods. All it does is stifle creativity, learning, progression, understanding of actual science, etc....


But yeah, I was growing notill before it was cool.

P.S. I actually started doing notill outdoors in my veggie garden before I ever applied it indoors in my cannabis rooms.

 

[who dat is]

If making shit as easy as possible, to the point where I don't even measure top dressing amounts or water, then yes I'm trendy as phuck.

I wouldn't worry about the kids. You do you

 

[Weird]

Runoff is one of the biggest problems of agriculture. Whether you are chemical or organic. The leaching nutrients get into our water ways, and will eventually kill of aquatic life among other things.

One of the best things about notill setups indoors is the ability to control runoff, thus saving water(which is a finite resource), and keeping the nutrients where they need to be. Which all equates to saving money.

Get on instagram and jump on the notill bandwagon. It is huge right now.

You too can use neem cake and karanja cake for absolutely no reason. Throw in some malted barley, and aloe and you have joined the hipster notill community.

Most of what's going on right now is a fad. Don't believe me? Then why have the hipster notillers all but stopped using the ever magical coconut water powder?

I run notill indoor, and outdoor for vegetables and I do not like to be considered a part of what is going on in the Cannabis community with regards to notill.

I was running notill before it was cool, and I will most likely run it when the hipster kids find another teet to suck.

It is but one way to garden in a sea of ways.

There where rhetorical questions, I have been doing no til from a number of years now and unlike every one else i haven't changed my soil even when I had issues, posted plenty about it too, if you read about that stuff here I guess.

I have also been giving away the information for free to do what I am doing, I didn't turn it into so pay for exclusive membership ego trip which is counter intuitive to sustainable practices.

Anyway the point was not growing indoor but growing using natural methods to keep your ecosystem balanced and still achieve optimal results.

build a soil? LOL

 

[VortexPower420]

Looking right as usual weird.

I feel the same way.

The ones I looked up to fell from grace when they started making money off of it.

It all about following mother nature. She is the great provider and she doesnt charge a thing. She just ask that you take care of her.

 

[growingcrazy]

With all the talk of sustainability and leaching I couldn't help but sign up for this one...

When are we going to transition to a 100% nature sourced soil mix? Is anybody running a mix that has zero purchased items or very very few?

I know that this isn't suitable for many, but I know that we have a group here that has available natural items and the knowledge to make it work for the masses.

My 8+ year "conventional organic" notill is going back into large beds for winter runs. Right now I am trying to dial a compost/leaf mold/soil/composted beech shell base with flax meal and wood ash as the only additions...

A notill step by step, detail by detail write up would be phenomenal. We all have nuances and details that get left in translation. Either that or you have to dig through hundreds of pages. Only way to stop the money making is make the information 100% available. From what amendments, where to get them, when to apply and why to apply. Soil requires most gardeners to learn a completely new realm to them and then gain the trial and error experience over years of practice. If the who,what,where,when and why are answered first thing, the information is more attainable.

Rambling...sorry!

Good morning,
GC

 

[MileHighGlass]

There where rhetorical questions, I have been doing no til from a number of years now and unlike every one else i haven't changed my soil even when I had issues, posted plenty about it too, if you read about that stuff here I guess.

I have also been giving away the information for free to do what I am doing, I didn't turn it into so pay for exclusive membership ego trip which is counter intuitive to sustainable practices.

Anyway the point was not growing indoor but growing using natural methods to keep your ecosystem balanced and still achieve optimal results.

build a soil? LOL


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The best part was
"build a soil? LOL"


Your shit is looking good as always. My post was generalized and not wholly directed at you in any manner. Other than the response about leaching. After that the sarcasm was directed at the demigod following crowd which it appears you picked up on.

"build a soil? LOL"

 

[heady blunts]

i might be the only one, but i have ZERO problem with BAS making money by filling a need.

when i started on this path it took me WEEKS to source all the materials i wanted to use. i probably shopped at as many stores as there were ingredients in my soil (this was in the post-supersoil, diversity-in-amdendments days). and that was in central CA, one of the country's most active and progressive agricultural areas!

i can always drive an hour and a half each way to go to my favorite farm supply store, but sometimes i just want that shit delivered to my door. i'm happy to pay for the convenience when i don't have the time or the energy to go on a wild hunt for my shit.

when i'm building soil, i'll drive to the local spots. i'm not an idiot. i'm not ordering bags of rock dust from colorado and paying to ship it half way across the country. BAS gives the very same advice fwiw. get what you can locally.

also, i credit coot as one of my major influences. he spent a lot of time educating me and leading me to my own discoveries. he encouraged me to question the shit i read and always look for a simpler solution. he taught me to trust my observations and be skeptical of what i read on the pot boards.

if all that generous mentorship eventually created a massive hoard of dogmatic idiots, is that coot's fault? i think it's just a sad reality of human nature, but i'm not hating on coot for the poor behavior of people that take things he's said and turn them into a club to beat people with.

microbe man has also shaped my practices and research methodology. he sells brewers. does that make him a bad person? no. that makes him a professional.

the last person i credit as a mentor is jayKUSH. he was on KNF and building soil mixes from leaf mold and comfrey and nettle etc etc before anyone was parroting that shit. he opened my eyes to the possibilities of foraging and plants growing plants and considering the whole biome and not just the crop plant. he was making different mixes and planting the same culitvars in them to demonstrate how you can force different phenotypic expressions.

OBVIOUSLY i hate the #notillarmy nonsense and the IG fame machine that has given some measure of influence to those idiots.

but it doesn't seem much different to write off the contributions of influential members of the community with a broad stroke of the superiority pen.

foraging is great. plant based nutrients are great. locally sourced amendments are great. i strive to create the most sustainable garden i can (in an artificial indoor cultivation environment, which is innately at conflict with sustainability, fwiw).

but i don't live in an idealistic vacuum. IRL compromises have to be made. what does a holier-than-thou attitude accomplish?

 

[MileHighGlass]

i might be the only one, but i have ZERO problem with BAS making money by filling a need.

when i started on this path it took me WEEKS to source all the materials i wanted to use. i probably shopped at as many stores as there were ingredients in my soil (this was in the post-supersoil, diversity-in-amdendments days). and that was in central CA, one of the country's most active and progressive agricultural areas!

i can always drive an hour and a half each way to go to my favorite farm supply store, but sometimes i just want that shit delivered to my door. i'm happy to pay for the convenience when i don't have the time or the energy to go on a wild hunt for my shit.

when i'm building soil, i'll drive to the local spots. i'm not an idiot. i'm not ordering bags of rock dust from colorado and paying to ship it half way across the country. BAS gives the very same advice fwiw. get what you can locally.

also, i credit coot as one of my major influences. he spent a lot of time educating me and leading me to my own discoveries. he encouraged me to question the shit i read and always look for a simpler solution. he taught me to trust my observations and be skeptical of what i read on the pot boards.

if all that generous mentorship eventually created a massive hoard of dogmatic idiots, is that coot's fault? i think it's just a sad reality of human nature, but i'm not hating on coot for the poor behavior of people that take things he's said and turn them into a club to beat people with.

microbe man has also shaped my practices and research methodology. he sells brewers. does that make him a bad person? no. that makes him a professional.

the last person i credit as a mentor is jayKUSH. he was on KNF and building soil mixes from leaf mold and comfrey and nettle etc etc before anyone was parroting that shit. he opened my eyes to the possibilities of foraging and plants growing plants and considering the whole biome and not just the crop plant. he was making different mixes and planting the same culitvars in them to demonstrate how you can force different phenotypic expressions.

OBVIOUSLY i hate the #notillarmy nonsense and the IG fame machine that has given some measure of influence to those idiots.

but it doesn't seem much different to write off the contributions of influential members of the community with a broad stroke of the superiority pen.

foraging is great. plant based nutrients are great. locally sourced amendments are great. i strive to create the most sustainable garden i can (in an artificial indoor cultivation environment, which is innately at conflict with sustainability, fwiw).

but i don't live in an idealistic vacuum. IRL compromises have to be made. what does a holier-than-thou attitude accomplish?

I don't think it's hollier-than-thou it's about misinformation and riding a wave.

I was on microbeman's forum when coot got on and asked about essential oils and what everyone was using.

Within a couple of months buildasoil had an essential oil blend. Coincidence? Could be.

I applaud buildasoil for his business practices. He has done very well. He indeed has filled a void.

Overall anything that promotes organic gardening is good. My problem lies with the new gardeners that get stuck with blinders on. I suppose I feel that way because I have kids that are literally just a few years younger than most of these early 20's gardeners. So I see how easily influenced they can be.

After I tested aloe foliar side by side with what I was doing and there was no benefit, I realized I wasn't going to use it. Same goes for coconut water.

After I successfully grew fungus gnats in neem cake indoors, and outdoors, I realized it wasn't what everyone was saying it was.

That being said a lot of people have good luck with these things. To each their own.

 

[VortexPower420]

To each their own is right.

I don't believe cootz has ever made a dime off of any of the side business that popped up. Mad respect to him for that. He is purely about spreading the knowledge of using mother nature as a partner not as something to be controlled.

The others, people do what they do. I will never support them, but that is my choice. I try not to hate on them for following their own path.

Do no harm is my motto. If what you do does no harm or you make up for the harm done in other areas, you are on the noble path.

 

[heady blunts]

ahhh hahaha you guys are quicker than me

ya i totes feel that same thing---at the end of the day i'd rather see more people trying to produce less toxic herb, like, for the good of the world.

these same impressionable yootz might have been budswelling and eagle 20ing their shit if these practices hadn't become more mainstream.

 

[Weird]

i might be the only one, but i have ZERO problem with BAS making money by filling a need.

when i started on this path it took me WEEKS to source all the materials i wanted to use. i probably shopped at as many stores as there were ingredients in my soil (this was in the post-supersoil, diversity-in-amdendments days). and that was in central CA, one of the country's most active and progressive agricultural areas!

i can always drive an hour and a half each way to go to my favorite farm supply store, but sometimes i just want that shit delivered to my door. i'm happy to pay for the convenience when i don't have the time or the energy to go on a wild hunt for my shit.

when i'm building soil, i'll drive to the local spots. i'm not an idiot. i'm not ordering bags of rock dust from colorado and paying to ship it half way across the country. BAS gives the very same advice fwiw. get what you can locally.

also, i credit coot as one of my major influences. he spent a lot of time educating me and leading me to my own discoveries. he encouraged me to question the shit i read and always look for a simpler solution. he taught me to trust my observations and be skeptical of what i read on the pot boards.

if all that generous mentorship eventually created a massive hoard of dogmatic idiots, is that coot's fault? i think it's just a sad reality of human nature, but i'm not hating on coot for the poor behavior of people that take things he's said and turn them into a club to beat people with.

microbe man has also shaped my practices and research methodology. he sells brewers. does that make him a bad person? no. that makes him a professional.

the last person i credit as a mentor is jayKUSH. he was on KNF and building soil mixes from leaf mold and comfrey and nettle etc etc before anyone was parroting that shit. he opened my eyes to the possibilities of foraging and plants growing plants and considering the whole biome and not just the crop plant. he was making different mixes and planting the same culitvars in them to demonstrate how you can force different phenotypic expressions.

OBVIOUSLY i hate the #notillarmy nonsense and the IG fame machine that has given some measure of influence to those idiots.

but it doesn't seem much different to write off the contributions of influential members of the community with a broad stroke of the superiority pen.

foraging is great. plant based nutrients are great. locally sourced amendments are great. i strive to create the most sustainable garden i can (in an artificial indoor cultivation environment, which is innately at conflict with sustainability, fwiw).

but i don't live in an idealistic vacuum. IRL compromises have to be made. what does a holier-than-thou attitude accomplish?

I am all for sustainable agriculture getting a capitalistic value so it can become economically viable.

I also guess you missed the time they spent here riding people for not doing ROLS EXACTLY their way (sustainable, DIY and most importantly FREE) and thinking they where owed for their free contributions. Kinda ironic that they all deviated to LOS because they couldn't get decent pulls with synths. Then they commercialized the process and inflated the value like they where .com kids.

I get it, but still too common and classless for me.

I am also for free and open information. That is the one thing they did worthy of praise. If you think cootz or them didn't have desire driven agendas they themselves are not in touch with reality.

FWIW they aren't members anymore because they didn't want to be because they couldn't get paid for it, growing weed wasn't lucrative enough for them.

You think I would be the same mouthy fuck if I hadn't seen this all before time and time again?

AND NFN the only thing I do different they brought to the table was some new amendments. I still use a variation of LCs mix as does Lappy and a bunch of other people KILLING IT. I also see people test and struggle with coots mix, but hey, I know why that is too LOL.

I stopped logging into BOS forums after I saw reality through the bullshit, like founding members PMing each other for COM composts while they pretending to do something else.

People still discount my intellect and perception, it is ok, I don't.

Glad I was never a sucker enough to buy into their church because I don't use cover crops or seed extracts or any of the unnecessary horseshit people use and have been able to do with jsut a few raw amendments because I put in the time to understand how they work together. Not than any of those things are bad per say but you don't know shit about what your doing if your hedging your bet without knowing why.

None of them did that, that is why they where STILL dialing in their methodologies since I last checked.

You know something is off when you are getting better results from methods people are redeveloping because they didn't get the results they wanted and don't really understand the nuances of the process they are selling.

They are learning about them as they go. Which is all good, unless you act like an egotistical dick, because some people been around long enough to see through bullshit like that.

I could get into a much deeper conversation about every argument I ever had with reputed breeder or your BOS buddies and every other argument and explain why not only is the science off but the ultimate effect on the business desires are counter intuitive. I would love to have these deeper conversations but people aren't capable of thinking that far into it. You know how much money it costs to get a consultation to address limiting beliefs in business? I know a good Harvard educated business coach if anyone is interested. Would you like to know the history we have?

I never evoke an argument unless there is a undeniable benefit and equal benefit for everyone when I make it. Even the person I argue against. If there is no benefit, why do it?

 

[heady blunts]

i *was* on hiatus for the bulk of the dramaz.

 

[MileHighGlass]

I am all for sustainable agriculture getting a capitalistic value so it can become economically viable.

I also guess you missed the time they spent here riding people for not doing ROLS EXACTLY their way (sustainable, DIY and most importantly FREE) and thinking they where owed for their free contributions. Kinda ironic that they all deviated to LOS because they couldn't get decent pulls with synths. Then they commercialized the process and inflated the value like they where .com kids.

I get it, but still too common and classless for me.

I am also for free and open information. That is the one thing they did worthy of praise. If you think cootz or them didn't have desire driven agendas they themselves are not in touch with reality.

FWIW they aren't members anymore because they didn't want to be because they couldn't get paid for it, growing weed wasn't lucrative enough for them.

You think I would be the same mouthy fuck if I hadn't seen this all before time and time again?

AND NFN the only thing I do different they brought to the table was some new amendments. I still use a variation of LCs mix as does Lappy and a bunch of other people KILLING IT. I also see people test and struggle with coots mix, but hey, I know why that is too LOL.

I stopped logging into BOS forums after I saw reality through the bullshit, like founding members PMing each other for COM composts while they pretending to do something else.

People still discount my intellect and perception, it is ok, I don't.

Glad I was never a sucker enough to buy into their church because I don't use cover crops or seed extracts or any of the unnecessary horseshit people use and have been able to do with jsut a few raw amendments because I put in the time to understand how they work together. Not than any of those things are bad per say but you don't know shit about what your doing if your hedging your bet without knowing why.

None of them did that, that is why they where STILL dialing in their methodologies since I last checked.

You know something is off when you are getting better results from methods people are redeveloping because they didn't get the results they wanted and don't really understand the nuances of the process they are selling.

They are learning about them as they go. Which is all good, unless you act like an egotistical dick, because some people been around long enough to see through bullshit like that.

I could get into a much deeper conversation about every argument I ever had with reputed breeder or your BOS buddies and every other argument and explain why not only is the science off but the ultimate effect on the business desires are counter intuitive. I would love to have these deeper conversations but people aren't capable of thinking that far into it. You know how much money it costs to get a consultation to address limiting beliefs in business? I know a good Harvard educated business coach if anyone is interested. Would you like to know the history we have?

I never evoke an argument unless there is a undeniable benefit and equal benefit for everyone when I make it. Even the person I argue against. If there is no benefit, why do it?

You summed this up so well. I would have added that a lot of the people leave forums when challenged about their methods. I have seen that happen many times before.

"Bow down, or i'll take all of my "wisdom" with me."

The ROLS nazi's turned into the current "notillarmy", and I wonder what they will turn into next?

Great Post!

 

[who dat is]

 

[VortexPower420]

Funny thing is, cootz doesnt do notill. Just saying.

From that group he is the only one who followed his word. Free information with no hidden agenda. He is still out there freely sharing his knowlage and genes. He has nothing to do with bas or Los.

I was never "in" with the Los guys. My problem is not with them capitalizing on the new movement they helped start. It is that they bashed everyone before them who did. Then they just followed suit and became the capitalist "pigs" they talked so much trash on.

Be true to yourself, What ever you path.

Cover crops while not needed to say they have no affect is not accurate.

Benifits include- increased and more diverse root exudes to feed biology, better water absorption, keeps the soil surface moist, increases stable humic compounds, home for benifical critters and worm food.

While sprout teas are not necessarily needed either. I have notice growth response with less then ideal soil and at transplants. Other then that I tend to agree, but I have not done a side by side in my garden.

Once your soil is alive and kicking the microbe produce everything you could need. From vitamins to axuins and everything in-between.

 

[VortexPower420]

How come people think it is being pretentious to give a shit about the impact you make on the planet?

Just curious.

Trying to spread information about the most sustainable way to grow medicine is a noble goal.

Being an ass about it or shunning people is not the way to prove a point. Even if you are right.

And that goes for both sides.

Edit. This post is in no way trying to start a fight with any posters here. More of a larger world view question.

To each his own...

 

[BusinessFactory]

This is a super interesting conversation to a relative noob. BAS is a large part in my endeavor into living soil but in the 1.5 years of growing I have pretty much eliminated them for any purchases.

I did just top dress with kelp, 50/50 neem karanja, and malted barley so I guess I'm still riding the wave!

 

[Lovesponge]

Not sure about the common trends of the day, but I'm personally just thankful that I stumbled across organic growing and have a much larger desire to learn as much as I can about plants in their entirety. I just want healthy herb for now, and so far with just this experiment of using homemade amendments for foliar and bloom application, I've seen results versus a bottled nutrient line. So as long as everyone here has a cooperative attitude to weed out the truth from the bias, I'm all about it. I couldn't give a fuck about who uses what for monetary gain. I'm here for knowledge and the plant.

 

[Weird]

How come people think it is being pretentious to give a shit about the impact you make on the planet?

Just curious.

Trying to spread information about the most sustainable way to grow medicine is a noble goal.

Being an ass about it or shunning people is not the way to prove a point. Even if you are right.

And that goes for both sides.

Edit. This post is in no way trying to start a fight with any posters here. More of a larger world view question.

To each his own...

I personally don't concede to the pressures of the mainstream.

The are a few facets to this problem in particular.

People deny causation because they don't understand it and the fear of unknown consequences triggers emotion that over powers their logic. Couple with this that many people who come are so overtaken by the cannabis experience, one that is normally a healthier decision for many people. This leaves them in a place where they are justifiably far better off than before.

This new good place is very hard for people to see past initially, however if they are growers, they will be observing causation, use a drug with medicinal value that can help quiet the mind and body can observe the causation in their own gardens.

Once that dynamic becomes realized then you will find people start to discriminate and change how they view causation both in their garden and in their own bodies.

It is hard for some people to be sensitive to the dynamics of nature because of the effects of lifestyle.

Took me a couple decades to embrace the organic life, I believed the myths too