New 12'x24' Grow room

[rives]

I would consider re-installing the horizontal members you removed... they look structural to me (prevent the spreading of your walls and roof).

That roof design looks scary to me. With no collar ties and no ceiling joists any load on the ridge (do you get snow?) is going to try and straighten the angled members of the top chord out, camming the walls outwards. You might try googling truss design. Good luck.

 

[mdk ktm]

So there is no possible way you can seal that room? How are you going to control it in summer? And what is your plant limit? Good luck that could be a productive little shed. With the low ceiling height, I think i would stay from flood and rain tables... Depends exactly how much vertical space you have though.


And growshopfrank, Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Have you ever had mother plants under 24/0 lighting? Because it just made me think WTF is this guy talking about..... Maybe you're growing auto-flower?

 

[Funky_Fred]

I'm not sure if its too late, but I would recommend to insulate that room because it looks to be a standalone room outside and I hope you aren't in an area which experiences high temperature fluctuations.

 

[Gooey]

Ya insulate and seal imho is best...soil beds might be a option...gl

 

[growshopfrank]

what???where did you get that thought from?

From actual experience, flowering cannabis gives off hormones into the air that tend to cause other cannabis plants that share the same air to flower also. likely a natural defense to propagate. after a while moms go into a soft flower not forming nugs but flowers all over and your clones are more reluctant to root and just of lower quality then they were before the onset of flowering

 

[Satans pal]

Excellent info about the moms and clones, because we seem to be having an issue with our clones right now of a similar situation, wont know for sure for another week. Had a friend take first set of clones and had to ditch 36. So then I took the next round and they already look so much better, but that was only a couple days ago.

Electrical is going in today, I will have to post pics later.

Just an fyi.... If you cant do this shit yourself its going to get expensive. Right now at about 1/3 to 1/2 way through we are at 4-5k before lights and bucket system and other small stuff.

Still looking for ideas on intake and vents. I kinda have an idea of what I am going to do, but want as many ideas as I can get. The eventual goal is 4-5lbs a month. So we will see. Thanks again, SP

 

[growshopfrank]

Excellent info about the moms and clones, because we seem to be having an issue with our clones right now of a similar situation, wont know for sure for another week. Had a friend take first set of clones and had to ditch 36. So then I took the next round and they already look so much better, but that was only a couple days ago.

For what its worth if you move the moms to a clean location (with no flowering plants) in six to eight weeks they usually will revert to veg and be usable again. Its always a pain to build a quality grow environment but the results are worth it

 

[Satans pal]

Thanks GSFrank, that is in the works now.

Sorry I did not get the pics up yesterday, but have been a busy boy. Well here they are......its starting to come together.

 

[Satans pal]

Insulating today. Then comes the 3mil vapor barrier, and after that 5/8" sheets of osb. Plan on priming with kiltz. I saw somebody else here using a bathroom satin for paint, because it was mold resistant and you could wipe it down. Thought that sounded good.

So any ideas on venting yet? Right now I plan on having 2 rows of 5 hoods with 8" ducting, 2 vortex 8" at the end of the shed pulling from all the lights and 2 carbon filters at the front of the shed. So it will be 2 separate cooling fan systems, one for each row of 5.

Once again, thanks for any input

 

[Bob Smith]

Nice start bro, subbed.

Still finishing up my 10x14 buildout, and it's a bitch, lemme tell ya.

As far as cooling your lights goes - what exactly is underneath the shed? A crawlspace, perhaps?

Because the only way you're going to be able to keep your lights cool is by using cool air - blowing 100F summer air across your bulbs won't do shit, in all honesty.

If I were you, I'd simplify everything and get two LARGE mini-split ACs and forget any outside air ever coming into your grow space.

If you're gonna run 12K watts, you're gonna need somewhere in the neighborhood of 48K BTUs of cooling - I'd get a two and a three ton mini-split and be done with it (60K total, always want to get more than you think you need), run your bulbs vertically bare bulbed, and run either MPBs or an UC system.

 

[Satans pal]

No crawl space, just concrete. Since it will be just a flower room I figured I would have to have heat and a/c. A/C unit will be in rear of shed and baseboard heater with digi t-stat will be on side of shed. So I thought if I could keep the temp between 70-80*, then that would be running through the hoods. Haven't looked into split a/c's, but I bet their spendy, and with the scratch I already have into this.....well if your building one then you already know.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a mpb or uc system?

 

[Bob Smith]

Lol, I'm well over $10K just to build an insulated 14x10 room in my garage with all the fixin's, and I'm only running 2400 watts for flowering

And MPB is a "medical patient bucket" and a UC is the "undercurrent" system - both are RDWC (recirculating deep water culture) systems designed to grow massive plants for people with plant count limits.

I'm not sure what wattage you're planning on going with right now, but a good rule of thumb for your application would be 5 BTUs for every 1K watts of lighting (assuming they're not going to be aircooled, which again, I'd recommend against).

And since you're going to need more than one AC (whatever you do), you should put them on opposite ends of the structure for more even cooling throughout.

You could put in two or three LARGE window bangers for about $1K and save yourself much scrilla.

EDIT: Hold on, just re-read your last post - so you're going to use the room air to run through the hoods, and then exhaust that back into the room? If so, what exactly is the point of doing that? Or are you going to be intaking the room air into the lights and then exhausting to the outside, wasting both AC and CO2? Either way, doesn't seem to make much sense homey...........seriously, just get enough AC for your needs and forget about all this aircooling shit..........hang your lights vertically, save $1500 on buying reflectors, and buy yourself a UC or two............you can thank me later

 

[Satans pal]

So is this where the sealed room theory comes in? I am still not sure how that works. No scrubbers or fans(other than oscillating)?

I thought you want air movement for the plants(no stale air). So, I always thought that venting the exhaust higher in the room with air through the hoods and filter(for smell) with an intake lower in the room was best for circulation, better transfer of c02.

And this right here ladies and gents is why I come to ICM for advice.

I was planning on using free standing a/c units. You know, want to be kinda discrete.

And as far as the system goes, there is a flood and drain bucket system that can run 5 gal or 2 gal buckets. The grow shop here swears by it. Just not sure what size buckets to go with.

Thanks again for the advice,SP

Ya, I'm into this about 6k right now and still have a long way to go.

 

[Bob Smith]

So is this where the sealed room theory comes in? I am still not sure how that works. No scrubbers or fans(other than oscillating)?

I thought you want air movement for the plants(no stale air). So, I always thought that venting the exhaust higher in the room with air through the hoods and filter(for smell) with an intake lower in the room was best for circulation, better transfer of c02.

And this right here ladies and gents is why I come to ICM for advice.

I was planning on using free standing a/c units. You know, want to be kinda discrete.

And as far as the system goes, there is a flood and drain bucket system that can run 5 gal or 2 gal buckets. The grow shop here swears by it. Just not sure what size buckets to go with.

Thanks again for the advice,SP

Ya, I'm into this about 6k right now and still have a long way to go.

All right, let's try this again.......

Yup, only oscillating fans in a sealed room - NO EXHAUST AND NO INTAKE.

I run a sealed room but still use scrubbers, but they simply recycle the air that's already in my room just to ensure that no odors get out - it's VERY, VERY, VERY DIFFICULT to have a 100% completely airtight room, so if you don't want smells getting out, I'd still recommend a couple of scrubers attached to inline fans for you.

And yes, if not supplementing with CO2 (which we do in a sealed room), than you need to have fresh air simply to replenish the CO2 the plants consume - if you're supplying the CO2, there is ZERO NEED FOR ANY OUTSIDE AIR, EVER.

And if security is a concern, I'd once again HIGHLY recommend getting two mini-splits - you can have the outside units next to your house (to not look shady), and have the lines run to the the inside of the shed with no one being the wiser.

FYI, a five gallon bucket @ 4 per light is going to put you over your plant minimum - seriously, look into a UC and vertically hung lights.

Damn, I'd almost come set this up for you if you were close - do your partners have any experience? Really sounds (to me, anyways, and I hope you don't take offense) that you need to find yourself someone local who knows what they're doing, because (again, no offense) it doesn't seem like you're that experienced and I'd hate for you to waste time and money on a faulty setup.

So, to recap - throw out the intake/exhaust idea, throw out the freestanding (portables are a joke) AC idea, and throw out the five gallon bucket idea.

PM me if you've got any specific questions or anything like that.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

A few thoughts:

1. If I were in your position, I would grow vertical bare bulb with a single row right down the middle. Check out selfhemployed's stadium to see a very successful bare-bulb vert. In your space, I would run just a single plant with more veg. If you already plan on using AC, (and you haven't bought the hoods and fittings), I would walk away from the air-cooled idea. Hoods become heat radiators, and can make it harder to manage localized heat. (They are, however, safer in the event of a bulb exploding, etc.) A classic solution in vert-bare-bulb is to place a fan directly below each bulb blowing up. This will contribute towards even temp distribution, and good general air flow. If you want to use an open room, then go ahead and vent those cans direly outside. This will take load off your AC. (As for intakes, in cab grows they say you need a passive intake twice the size of you outlet. In your case, you'd probably want your intakes on the opposite side of your vent fans to pull air through the garden... so if all venting is on one side, all intakes the other. If there are fans exiting on both sides, intake in the center.)

2. If you still have unanswered questions about some basics, like the difference between a closed and open room, it seems likely that there is plenty out there you haven't seen just yet. I would strongly caution against combining a new grow space with an unfamiliar grow system. I would recommend running your garden with ammended-soil-water-only, or any kind of feed you find amusing into coco. If you are interested in the moderation of maintenance through the Ebb-n-Grow, you could consider using Tropf Blumats. They will provide you the 'automation'/reduction-in-maintenance benefits of hydro (arguably better management of root-zone moisture content) with significantly more tolerance for fuck-ups and heat swings.

2.b The bucket system you are describing is pretty simple, and is often very productive. However, if you need a harvest to come in after this investment, the last thing you want to do is writing in asking if you shouldn't have used such and such additive in a your root solution, or if your root temps are too hot, etc. Until you know the dynamics of the space, keep it simple, as a moderate soil harvest is infinitely better than a compete hydro failure.

Don't misunderstand me. I am a huge fan of hydro in every regard... except when you absolutely positively gotta harvest on your very first run in a new space.

 

[Satans pal]

Alright....So I am sold on the sealed room and vertical bulbs, Still plan on running a bucket system. The one I am looking at will support up to 24 five gal buckets or 42 two gal buckets(at least thats what the grow shop says)with a 55 gal res, so I will be running at the most 30 due to where I live and my limit.

Bob, I will be pm'ing you tomorrow about some ideas. I see that you are a no bs type of guy from your other post's and I respect that.

Will be getting 2 or 3 "window bangers" for A/C and I hope that will do it.

Thanks for the info, keep it coming, will post new pics tomorrow.

 

[Satans pal]

Hey Bob, couldn't PM you, for some reason it says you cannot receive them. Thanks for the offer to help, really appreciate it. No offense taken.

I am not a new grower, just new to this big and kinda new to hydro. Have another hydro setup at friends and that seems to be going rather well. After some research and your comments I have come to the conclusion that vert/sealed room will be best. I have 10k watts to use and more if I want.

Have looked at some stadium/scrog grows that look awesome (see selfhemployed's stadium grow, thanks IF) but with the roof I have I don't think it would work. I searched for undercurrent systems with not much luck. Did you have a link or two for me? My original thought was to grow trees for maximum yield, like 12-14 and do a one month rotation on 6-7 of them.

As always, any more thoughts on the room, environment and grow system is greatly appreciated.

I am definitely an open minded type of guy and willing to listen.

This goes for anyone that wants to chime in.

Thanks again, SP

 

[mdk ktm]

Do you have any experience with DWC or RDWC? Are you going to get a water chiller? Personally I wouldn't touch RDWC without a water chiller. You will have enough to worry about getting the room dialed in. For a first run, I would run coco or maybe some hempy buckets.... coco with blumats could be a good thing for a first run, or maybe longer.

I just don't think its a good idea for you to make things more complicated. And it will save you some dough over buying an UC. I vote crop out a couple times first, hone your skills, and then make the next step. Coco, hempy, or a super soil would all be great reliable choices. good luck

if you want low plant numbers, run like 15 gallon smart pots with coco. Or maybe 7-10 gallon smart pots depending how many lights you're running

 

[Sam the Caveman]

a moderate soil harvest is infinitely better than a compete hydro failure.

 

[Bob Smith]

Agree with the previous two posters - I assumed (my bads) that you had some experience running a hydro system or two; to ensure a decent first few harvests, I'd recommend do 20-30 gallon tubs filled with coco/soil/your medium of choice and run a dripper drain to waste.

Pretty much foolproof, and your first harvest will cover your expenses and then some, virtually guaranteed.

Once you get your new room dialed, you can start fudging around with different systems, etc.

Not sure why I can't get PMs, I guess I'm a naughty boy?

FYI, if I were you, I'd probably take a stroll on over to

T
H
C
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A
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Dot com for some ideas - lots of similar-sized ops to yours over there.