wheredaweedat
Member
I was going to say the same thing. OP should have worked his way up to the 5 gallon pots.
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NEED COCO MASTER ADVICE PLEASE PH PROBLEM
- Thread starter jack mehaulf
- Start date
Dready_jake
Member
They should grow into them eventually but you'll have to do hard dry and wet cycles. All the way dry to get them roots growing.and when you let any of the coco dry you have to do at least 20 percent runoff. If they're weelll rooted they can stay wet and not have any runoff( interesting option search this forums.
I somewhat disagree with the runoff not being important. I'll flush with straight water sometimes then followed with the full strength solution til the runoff shows the straight water is out. My point is what goes in should essentially come out. If the ph is coming out that wack something is wrong. Just like if you were feeding 500 ppms and getting out 1000ppm or even 2000ppm. If the runoff is that that's what is sitting around the roots there is your problem. Could also be very heavily related to pot size/age. But with proper dry/wet cycles and sufficient runoff things should fix themselves. After fully dried Feed low 1/4 strength nutes til runoff ec and pH are the same as input.
I somewhat disagree with the runoff not being important. I'll flush with straight water sometimes then followed with the full strength solution til the runoff shows the straight water is out. My point is what goes in should essentially come out. If the ph is coming out that wack something is wrong. Just like if you were feeding 500 ppms and getting out 1000ppm or even 2000ppm. If the runoff is that that's what is sitting around the roots there is your problem. Could also be very heavily related to pot size/age. But with proper dry/wet cycles and sufficient runoff things should fix themselves. After fully dried Feed low 1/4 strength nutes til runoff ec and pH are the same as input.
jack mehaulf
Member
So what do u guys think about going down to a 3 gal or maybe smaller? Before they take root??
Also can someone help me understand the cation exchange? Could that be my problem?
I'm thinking I will transplant into 3GAL POts or smaller and flush with water take everything out!
And start from scratch... before it is to late
?? It will be stressful for me and the plants but maybe just what they need
and I will put exsess calmag? Into it so I can hold into some nutriants? And stop messing up my stuff or something like that?
Also can someone help me understand the cation exchange? Could that be my problem?
I'm thinking I will transplant into 3GAL POts or smaller and flush with water take everything out!
And start from scratch... before it is to late
?? It will be stressful for me and the plants but maybe just what they need
and I will put exsess calmag? Into it so I can hold into some nutriants? And stop messing up my stuff or something like that?
Dready_jake
Member
Read my last post
jack mehaulf
Member
So u want me to wait till it drys out and then flush? With .25 strength nutes? Till the ph changes?
if that's what u want... I'm pretty certain the ph will not change I have done that many times as recent as the other day with no change
if that's what u want... I'm pretty certain the ph will not change I have done that many times as recent as the other day with no change
Never flush with straight water in coco unless at the end of flower flush period. Without getting too deep into it coco holds onto cations namely Calcium, Magnesium, and Potassium that we are worried about and when you rinse with pure water it will rinse away a lot or all of this from the coco particles and the next time you water the coco "steals" these back from the nutes and holds them until all sites are full in the coco medium, meanwhile your plants are becoming more deficient due to the out of wack nutrient profile available to them, until the CEC is satisifed in the coco medium and your plants will then get their proper nutrient profile back from the nutes you are using. Only flush with diluted nutrient solution for mid grow flushing.
Also you can grow perfectly healthy plants in coco with only Floranova Bloom and I do not pH adjust when using Floranova Bloom in RO water it buffers itself in the acceptable range. Im not saying you shouldnt because your situtation could easily differ from mine, but hell it works great for me and its so easy I only mix to a target ec, generally work up to 1.2ec in veg and use ~1.2-1.3 maybe 1.4 at the most at peak flower.
I dont know that I would suggest un-potting to downsize now, could cause some added stress to them by damaging the roots but hard to say if the positives outweigh any negatives so thats up to you. Could help or hurt depends how far the roots have taken already and how gentle you are with the rootball the less stress the better at transplants to maintain vigor.
Smaller pots are where its at though in coco if you need to water at least once a day in late veg or flower, if not 2x or more a day, then you are in the right size pot for coco IMO as long as you can keep them watered whether by hand or automated drip the more often you need to feed them in coco the better growth rates you will see with a more consistant fresh nutrient supply and the oxygen that goes into the root zone with each feeding.
Also you can grow perfectly healthy plants in coco with only Floranova Bloom and I do not pH adjust when using Floranova Bloom in RO water it buffers itself in the acceptable range. Im not saying you shouldnt because your situtation could easily differ from mine, but hell it works great for me and its so easy I only mix to a target ec, generally work up to 1.2ec in veg and use ~1.2-1.3 maybe 1.4 at the most at peak flower.
I dont know that I would suggest un-potting to downsize now, could cause some added stress to them by damaging the roots but hard to say if the positives outweigh any negatives so thats up to you. Could help or hurt depends how far the roots have taken already and how gentle you are with the rootball the less stress the better at transplants to maintain vigor.
Smaller pots are where its at though in coco if you need to water at least once a day in late veg or flower, if not 2x or more a day, then you are in the right size pot for coco IMO as long as you can keep them watered whether by hand or automated drip the more often you need to feed them in coco the better growth rates you will see with a more consistant fresh nutrient supply and the oxygen that goes into the root zone with each feeding.
Dready_jake
Member
Yes wet and dry cycles every time until roots catch up with pot. That dry will require sufficient runoff to get dry salts all the way out. And yes while I was letting my plants fill a pot slightly too big for them I would water with straight h20 to get the dried salts as it has no nutes therefore can get the salts. I then water with full strengthnutrients immediately and monitor runoff until it matches the nutrients pushing out the straight water that now contains suspended salts that were previously not suspended as the water dried. I mostly did this cuz they're in fabix pots and were too big but now I just do straight nutes til 20 to 40 percent nuoff as they're pretty well rooted and happy
Just keep them in the 5 gallon pots this time. Like others say , water every few days or when the pot feels light until the roots get established and then you can water once a day. It may take around 2-4 weeks before you can start to water daily. It really depends on your environment and other variables. In my experience it takes 16-24 ounces of nutrient water per gallon of coco each time I water.
I don't have experience with Mycorrhizae in coco but SM-90 will keep your rootzone free of harmful bacteria and keep everything clean and healthy. However, it's not a beneficial bacteria product. I recommend Botanicare Hydroguard @ 2ml per gallon every water and that will keep your roots healthy. It has Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens, which is a beneficial bacteria. Just keep things simple for now until you get more experience with coco. Your goal for now is to nurse these plants and keep them healthy until harvest. Relax and enjoy.
I don't have experience with Mycorrhizae in coco but SM-90 will keep your rootzone free of harmful bacteria and keep everything clean and healthy. However, it's not a beneficial bacteria product. I recommend Botanicare Hydroguard @ 2ml per gallon every water and that will keep your roots healthy. It has Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens, which is a beneficial bacteria. Just keep things simple for now until you get more experience with coco. Your goal for now is to nurse these plants and keep them healthy until harvest. Relax and enjoy.
well you got a real education here. lots of great info about the properties of coco and it's conductivity.
so, now I refer you to my original question as some of the guys have overlooked the fact that the wrong pH adjuster can have the effect of wild swings in pH readings... so err.. what pH down are you using Jack?
that said the guys are totally right in the advice they have given, you ought to use coco specific nute lines (they make up for defs not usually encountered with soil.... and you should stage your pot sizes with smaller increments/leaps in size - I only go up to 11ltrs, so it's not such an issue for me.
once it's confirmed that you're using a decent pH adjuster, then I would say you have all the knowledge you need in this thread to avoid similar problems in future
good luck
so, now I refer you to my original question as some of the guys have overlooked the fact that the wrong pH adjuster can have the effect of wild swings in pH readings... so err.. what pH down are you using Jack?
that said the guys are totally right in the advice they have given, you ought to use coco specific nute lines (they make up for defs not usually encountered with soil.... and you should stage your pot sizes with smaller increments/leaps in size - I only go up to 11ltrs, so it's not such an issue for me.
once it's confirmed that you're using a decent pH adjuster, then I would say you have all the knowledge you need in this thread to avoid similar problems in future
good luck
jack mehaulf
Member
I am usin general hydro ph up and down
Sorry I missed Ur question I didn't think it was very series? But Ur say it might be a key factor?
Sorry I missed Ur question I didn't think it was very series? But Ur say it might be a key factor?
well I checked and GH uses Phosphoric acid (for pH down)... which is the same as I use (from Canna), so no problems there.
It can be a factor mate, I've heard of ppl using lemon juice and all sorts to adjust pH, which can lead to some very misleading results on the readings...
Thanks for clarifying buddy
It can be a factor mate, I've heard of ppl using lemon juice and all sorts to adjust pH, which can lead to some very misleading results on the readings...
Thanks for clarifying buddy
jack mehaulf
Member
So I need 50 posts before I can post pics?
Soo I guess I'm going to keep them in the 5
I'll just have to ride it out, they art doing soooo bad injus want more optimal conditions, I'll get it down next run
I'm going to get a 2x4 t5 veg tent a couple weeks after these girls get switched, so about another 2 months or less, for that
I will get 2 gallon pots.. or 3 maybe I think the 2s might dry to fast (depends of if I go automatic feeds)
And a coco nutrient line,
I really appreciate everyone it's a great time we live in to have a website like this
Soo I guess I'm going to keep them in the 5
I'll just have to ride it out, they art doing soooo bad injus want more optimal conditions, I'll get it down next run
I'm going to get a 2x4 t5 veg tent a couple weeks after these girls get switched, so about another 2 months or less, for that
I will get 2 gallon pots.. or 3 maybe I think the 2s might dry to fast (depends of if I go automatic feeds)
And a coco nutrient line,
I really appreciate everyone it's a great time we live in to have a website like this
hey we live and learn man, it's how it was for all of us in the beginning... after the first couple of runs you get your own style and techniques down and you never look back ...
...and your right about this age of free information we live in, I was just saying this to some people at the cup the other weekend.
...and your right about this age of free information we live in, I was just saying this to some people at the cup the other weekend.
Last edited:
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
If ur going to do 9 plants per 400w flowering then I would have a goal weight of about 1.5 to 2oz plants. To achieve a 2oz plant in coir all u would need is a true 1 gallon of coir. Id use the #2 pots that hold a true 1.6 gallons of coir giving the plants plenty of room to achieve their goals cause I know if u grow long enough veg in those pots u can get at least 10oz from the #2 pots. I wouldn't even use all the #2 pot. I would leave the top 2 to 3" empty so I didn't have too much medium for ur situation. Now with the right veg time and good root system u will have to water daily, but to really get the yield out of it id have the roots totally filled in and being drip fed a good 4 to 6 times a day.
jack mehaulf
Member
Yeah I feel the same way lucky this is not my very first grow, I was growing for about over a year, less than 2 years I had about 5 or 6 crops about 3 years ago in 2011 2012 around there, I just got the idea one day and wached YouTube videos and documentaties and, just went at it, I was hooked just liked that I made home made boxes whatever, after my first grow got a 400w hps cool tube and a 2x4 tent, a separate home made 2x2 veg box, looking back it seems like I was making nothing but mistakkess, but the girls always came through and there fruits always came out pretty sweet,
One day I moved I sold all my stuff and 3 years later I'm backk! With more funds for better equipment! A legal document on my side, and I'm eager to learn as much as I can, idk where I'd be if it wasn't for forums like this
One day I moved I sold all my stuff and 3 years later I'm backk! With more funds for better equipment! A legal document on my side, and I'm eager to learn as much as I can, idk where I'd be if it wasn't for forums like this
jack mehaulf
Member
I have a 1000w dimmable switchable,
it is just set to 400w mh for veg at the moment it can also go to 600w or 1000w and to HPS for flower
I am not expecting any more than .5 per watt
I want to keep my expectations low for my first grow
I have no idea what coco is capable of yet I hear amazing things but for myself I have not yet seen it in person so I will aim low and keep this grow as a bass line something to improve off
it is just set to 400w mh for veg at the moment it can also go to 600w or 1000w and to HPS for flower
I am not expecting any more than .5 per watt
I want to keep my expectations low for my first grow
I have no idea what coco is capable of yet I hear amazing things but for myself I have not yet seen it in person so I will aim low and keep this grow as a bass line something to improve off
jack mehaulf
Member
I would lovery to feed 4 to 6 times a day.. not in these 5s tho I am going to do 2s or 3z next run 3z might work best for me I'll see
Any info on a auto feed system? What do you guys like?
I've came to the conclusion that to be really successfull in coco you have to do multifeed or at least water once a day I've noticed right after I water my plants leaves shoot up to the light
Any info on a auto feed system? What do you guys like?
I've came to the conclusion that to be really successfull in coco you have to do multifeed or at least water once a day I've noticed right after I water my plants leaves shoot up to the light
Dready_jake
Member
So I need 50 posts before I can post pics?
Soo I guess I'm going to keep them in the 5
I'll just have to ride it out, they art doing soooo bad injus want more optimal conditions, I'll get it down next run
I'm going to get a 2x4 t5 veg tent a couple weeks after these girls get switched, so about another 2 months or less, for that
I will get 2 gallon pots.. or 3 maybe I think the 2s might dry to fast (depends of if I go automatic feeds)
And a coco nutrient line,
To get a great idea of plant size to pot in coco check out the coco trees threads and size downaccordingly or check out my big bitches in 5x5 plastic pots. To multi deed its generally accepted to require a well rooted pot. I vegged for almos a month in the 5 in pot and fed every other day or so when light. Then I put it on every day as I flipped now I've worked my way uP to 4 feedings a day
