MMPR problems: Starting materials(seeds or plants)

[SeedsOfFreedom]

Time to revive an old thread. Tweed is growing DNA genetics strains, and talking about it openly on the Tweed website. I guess they figured they can get seeds wherever they want now? As far as I know the regulations do not allow for this, but maybe Tweed figures they are big enough to do whatever they please now? If they can just get starting materials from wherever, that is a major game changer.

 

[SeedsOfFreedom]

Here is the story, straight from Tweed:

https://www.tweed.com/blogs/vault/new-dna-certified-strains-coming-to-tweed#oht:lang=en-us

 

[Chimera]

Tweed acquired all their seeds legally before March 31st, 2014. They were one of the more active companies in acquiring genetics before the MMAR loophole closed.

HC did allow some importation from Dutch companies when the system began, but then tightened up the rules and now only allows importation from companies licensed under their governments respective Medicinal cannabis laws.

 

[Lastdon]

Tweed acquired all their seeds legally before March 31st, 2014. They were one of the more active companies in acquiring genetics before the MMAR loophole closed.

HC did allow some importation from Dutch companies when the system began, but then tightened up the rules and now only allows importation from companies licensed under their governments respective Medicinal cannabis laws.

Could one argue aswell that they got all there stock under Their MMAR license and switched to over/to the new system.
2) Are Patient to Patient allowed to exchange materials?

 

[Chimera]

1) There was a window when MMAR and the then MMPR ran concurrently. At that point in time any MMAR patient could transfer materials to MMPR companies (with Ministerial approval). I know some Canadian seedbanks had huge rushes by LP applicants/MMAR holders in the timeframe leading up the the closure of the MMAR/MMPR window.

2) Not in the regulations (technically it's trafficking), but there is no way they could prove it, and it happens all the time. I'm sure they have zero interest in patient materials, however, the regulations must fit with the law under the CDSA, so they write it into the regulations. Although technically illegal, to pass clones or seeds from one PPL holder to another, or even from DG to PPL or PPL to DG, would not be found by the courts to be illegal, and the activity is probably protected by the charter should it come down to it (one could argue that not being able to get a specific clone that os efficacious for you is a violation of your Section 7 charter rights in terms of security of the person). Let's be honest they have no drive or care to go after these 'infractions'.

Remember, they have zero ability to monitor this type of activity, and there are currently people/patients trafficking in hundreds of pounds of flowers, extracts to dispensaries and the black market - and I am sure this would be more of a concern, yet it still happens relatively openly (they could easily bust a dispensary, get the supplier list, and start pegging off the growers- they don't).

If you were a PPL holder, you could go to your PPL/DG holder friend's garden, take a slip from his plant, and be in lawful possession of it now that they have ruled that not only herbal/dry cannabis is legal. Again, technically your friend PPL who's garden you visited would be required by the regulations to report the slip to the police as theft, but now we are into the territory of ridiculous, and they have no interest or desire to spend time and moey prosecuting cases they would surely lose.

These loopholes are the result of a series of regulations put in patchwork over time, compounded by court rulings that have invalidated some of the regulations. Combined with the fact there there are much bigger fish to fry, nobody really cares to try and enforce the impossible.

 

[SeedsOfFreedom]

Must be nice to be one of the chosen few that were given the medical market on a platter. If the government of Canada ever want to legitimize LP's, they are going to have to allow all LP's access to seeds and clones. No wonder patients in Canada have so little options. No wonder so many breeders and growers with great medicinal strains remain underground. Not much room to work within the ACMPR as is.

 

[Chimera]

Yeah it's a pretty fucked situation, the people that can pay to play in the MMPR/ACMPR world become the defacto suppliers. It's one thing to learn to grow pot, it's another entirely to gain the skill and art to be a real breeder. None of these guys are plant breeders, the companies simply see seeds to patients as just another SKU/product to have on the shelves from which they can profit.

I've spoken to a few LPs, and none have the desire to actually make any improved seedlines, and they sure don't want to pay anyone what they are worth to do the work for/with them. Really, it's no worse than the black market, the same thing happens in the underground, there are tons of garbage seeds available in Canada and elsewhere, it's buyer beware for sure. However, I suspect that the new regs from the government when it comes to legalization will make selling seeds through 'undeground' un-approved channels even more illegal (stiffer penalties), which is why we moved our production and distribution to legal markets overseas. The Canadian market is a joke, most Canadian retail shops sell very few if any suppliers these days.

 

[Rider420]

Yeah it's a pretty fucked situation, the people that can pay to play in the MMPR/ACMPR world become the defacto suppliers. It's one thing to learn to grow pot, it's another entirely to gain the skill and art to be a real breeder. None of these guys are plant breeders, the companies simply see seeds to patients as just another SKU/product to have on the shelves from which they can profit.

I've spoken to a few LPs, and none have the desire to actually make any improved seedlines, and they sure don't want to pay anyone what they are worth to do the work for/with them. Really, it's no worse than the black market, the same thing happens in the underground, there are tons of garbage seeds available in Canada and elsewhere, it's buyer beware for sure. However, I suspect that the new regs from the government when it comes to legalization will make selling seeds through 'undeground' un-approved channels even more illegal (stiffer penalties), which is why we moved our production and distribution to legal markets overseas. The Canadian market is a joke, most Canadian retail shops sell very few if any suppliers these days.

Sorry buddy but the knowledge of cannabis breeding is in its infancy due to prohibition.

You and a few other breeders have done great work for one man isolated breeders but as groups of breeders working with thousands of lines they will quickly surpass anything a lone wolf working under prohibition could have done or could ever do.

Again sorry buddy but big manufacturing gets it right, puritans rally against commercial beer and its homogenized taste yet its popular and most people hate the taste of home brew, regardless of whether you and I like it cannabis will go the same way.

 

[Chimera]

I'm very aware of which way cannabis production and breeding are going, but thanks for the tip. My work with breeding cannabis goes well beyond what I do alone in my own facility. and you see on the market

~~

Budweiser is the most popular beer purchased in Canada, but that means nothing in terms of quality product. Big business sells through branding and advertising to a mostly undiscerning marketplace of ignorant consumers - see McDonalds, Ford, Nike, Molson, Starbucks, etc ad nauseum. None of these are seen as the best, they simply mass produce average quality (or lower) products en masse and spend millions upon millions of dollars on marketing.

Sheep accept mass marketed and poorly produced beers; home brew swill for the most part greatly sucks balls, craft produced ales are the way of the present already, all up and down the west coast (Sacramento, SF, Portland, Eugene, Settle) and certain markets like Columbus Ohio, Indiana (see the Three Floyds brewery). Canadian beer as a whole sucks balls despite our nationally-arrogant nature about how good our beer is, and aside from the few breweries like Beau's from Vankleek Hill ON, Creemore Springs from Creemore, ON, and a very few others, Canada has completely missed the boat when it comes to tasty craft brews like those available in educated markets across the US. American craft beer wipes the floor with Canadian beer, I am sad to report - unless I'm sitting in a well stocked taproom in California. I wish it weren't true, but it is. I can only hope our cannabis market doesn't fall into the same rut of average and low quality garbage that we see in the Canadian beer market. I won't drink Canadian, Bud, Blue, Export Ale, and I sure as hell won't smoke ACMPR weed.

Anyone that thinks big business gets anything other than mass quantity right, hasn't experienced the upper end of quality that can exist in any sector, be it food, beer, automobiles, clothing, textiles, agriculture, cannabis etc etc etc. Those that produce the most, never produce the best. I have always been focused on producing the best flowers for my own needs, so nothing else is even remotely acceptable. I'd rather not get high than be forced to smoke flowers with less that 3% terps by weight. You just don't see that in the ACMPR marketplace. When you've seen and experienced the best from markets across the globe, it's hard to go back to below average. I realize that comes off as arrogant and elitist, and I am perfectly fine with that. When it comes to Cannabis, I am a complete snob. Been there done that with average weed, so over it already, whether it's 10 pounds or 1000 lbs, you can keep it.

It's just, that, simple.

 

[Rider420]

ROLMFAO so your loosing your cash cow no wonder you hate the legal biz. Best of luck dude I'm sure you will do as well as moonshiners did after the legalization of alcohol.

Now who buys booze from the store eh you get the best booze and yeast kits from the back allies everyone knows that. ROLMFAO

Honestly best of luck but if you want a future go legit when the law changes, otherwise you will just be a fond memory like the seed shop you used to work with ten years ago.

 

[Chimera]

ROLMFAO so your loosing your cash cow no wonder you hate the legal biz. Best of luck dude I'm sure you will do as well as moonshiners did after the legalization of alcohol.

Now who buys booze from the store eh you get the best booze and yeast kits from the back allies everyone knows that. ROLMFAO

Honestly best of luck but if you want a future go legit when the law changes, otherwise you will just be a fond memory like the seed shop you used to work with ten years ago.

Not sure what you are talking about Rider, seems like you are making a lot of assumptions. I am legit and operate in legal markets, not illegal ones. I have partners in multiple countries working with my lines and doing research.

I don't hate the legal biz at all, it's the evolution of the industry and I think it's actually a better production model than most of what feeds the black market. I'm happy to see safer production practices, less contaminated flowers, quality control and testing - these are all aspects of the business I have been woking on much longer than most of the people in the game, so I'm not going anywhere friend.

I don't expect you to get it, you have no idea who I am, what I do, or who I am working with. Heck, you can't even figure out simple internet acronyms, so who's really rolling on the floor laughing their ass off?

 

[Rider420]

ROLMFAO is a in joke I love making Andy Kaufman style but I know you would not understand.

In less then a year you will be able to buy cannabis anywhere in Canada, who would buy seeds that might be as good as the weed you just smoked and take two months just to sex when you can buy the clone of the strain you just smoked?

It really is a game changer when you can buy legal clones, like medical users can now do after sampling the different strains each LP has to offer. Soon recreational users will have the same choice and seed sales will plummet in Canada.

I know this is bad news for breeders and seed banks but the facts remain. Canada may be just a small market but other nations have already followed Canada's lead in medical cannabis and there is no reason to believe they won't do the same with recreational cannabis .

If you really want your strains out there when recreational cannabis is legalized in Canada and think you have the knowledge to grow medical grade cannabis its time to get your license. Prove that you have the best weed dude I would love to try some of your favorite strains always looking for a good clone mother. And you could end up very very rich! But like you said I know nothing about you ROLMFAO

BTW I would love to know what nations have legalized cannabis breeding and production of seeds?

 

[Limeygreen]

Yes, lets all buy cuts from numerous retailers that could pop up that are infected with mildew or mite or thrips? Most people still don't realize that cannabis mildew is systemic and this is part of the problem of people needing to spray (climate, drafts lack of experience etc are other causes as well.) for it, did you know that quarantining your stock plants and burning sulfur can help clean them up? Also taking new cuttings repeatedly and then tossing old mothers while doing this in a spate room and cleaning can help ease mildew pressure that is present in material that they got from someone who just thinks cuttings are cuttings no big deal.

I personally would love to say get cuttings of sweet skunk, a good haze, mental floss and probably more as time goes on, but why not seeds? Seed sales will likely go up and prices will drop when people don't have to invest so much into it and hide it, they can get their pollen from inside, in plant tents etc then poliinate females outside in tents or greenhouses etc and produce thousands or millions of seeds for hardly any input comparatively is done now. People buy veg seeds every year and transplants, do you see a decline in seed sales for veg or flowers because seeds are available? Transplants cost more and I know I can produce 1000 flower transplants for myself for pennies a piece, why the hell would I pay for transplants that cost 2 dollars each? Seeds will never go away, unless we learned nothing from panama disease.

 

[SeedsOfFreedom]

In less then a year you will be able to buy cannabis anywhere in Canada, who would buy seeds that might be as good as the weed you just smoked and take two months just to sex when you can buy the clone of the strain you just smoked?

It really is a game changer when you can buy legal clones, like medical users can now do after sampling the different strains each LP has to offer. Soon recreational users will have the same choice and seed sales will plummet in Canada.

I know this is bad news for breeders and seed banks but the facts remain. Canada may be just a small market but other nations have already followed Canada's lead in medical cannabis and there is no reason to believe they won't do the same with recreational cannabis .

Who do you think has all those clones your talking about selling? Breeders. Clones come from seed, and breeders with great seeds have great clones. Some will have to adapt, but either way the breeders with the great seeds and clones matter more than you pretend.

Also I agree with what limeygreen stated, many growers would rather start from seed than clone, due to the chance of introducing disease and pest into clean production area when buying clones. I can get lots of clones,but I grow from my own seed 98% of the time to avoid contaminating clean grow sites.

 

[Mate Dave]

I would rather start with cuttings of a known strain myself & visibally detect the problems associated & treat them before i know if there is any than start 200 seedlings and loose 1/2 cropping potential to a sex locus or worse contract vector from contaminated seeds.. Thrips and various organisms can survive on the endosperm years into storage, either a seed lot dies or you sprout them and the thrips come back.. Seen it happen loads with mass produced Dutch label seeds. Known fact.. I'd probably grow Chimera seeds, sure he's got something I can flip at first leaves in a 3ltr pot and it be worth while.. But at the price of seed I grow cuttings..

 

[bobthegrower]

ROLMFAO is a in joke I love making Andy Kaufman style but I know you would not understand.

In less then a year you will be able to buy cannabis anywhere in Canada, who would buy seeds that might be as good as the weed you just smoked and take two months just to sex when you can buy the clone of the strain you just smoked?

It really is a game changer when you can buy legal clones, like medical users can now do after sampling the different strains each LP has to offer. Soon recreational users will have the same choice and seed sales will plummet in Canada.

I know this is bad news for breeders and seed banks but the facts remain. Canada may be just a small market but other nations have already followed Canada's lead in medical cannabis and there is no reason to believe they won't do the same with recreational cannabis .

If you really want your strains out there when recreational cannabis is legalized in Canada and think you have the knowledge to grow medical grade cannabis its time to get your license. Prove that you have the best weed dude I would love to try some of your favorite strains always looking for a good clone mother. And you could end up very very rich! But like you said I know nothing about you ROLMFAO

BTW I would love to know what nations have legalized cannabis breeding and production of seeds?
------------------------
Drivel like this is why I hardly attend anymore.

BTW Check out Holland, Uruguay, Spain

56 posts of nothing

 

[Dr. Buddington]

Personally, I think that in vitro tissue culture propagation is the future. Chimera is right, it offers a lot of opportunities for breeders. Thank you for all of your technical advice, Chimera!

 

[gorilla ganja]

Tweed to begin selling seeds in march.

https://www.newcannabisventures.com/tweed-to-sell-cannabis-seeds-to-home-growers/

Peace GG

 

[Frostynugz]

Tweed to begin selling seeds in march.

https://www.newcannabisventures.com/tweed-to-sell-cannabis-seeds-to-home-growers/

Peace GG

So, over priced DNA gear we can get anywhere else? Pass. Tweed can keep their shit where its always been since no one is buying it, in storage.

 

[Limeygreen]

All fem'd seeds too, do you think they are stable?