Living organic soil from start through recycling

[IncredibowlBoss]

Quick return to the Bio AG Ful Power - is it typically stocked in garden centers and/or nationally distributed, or is online likely the way to go?

Also, can someone break down the rwhole weird situation whereby fulvics and humics are both labeled as humic acid or something because of Cali's regulations? While we're at it, any thoughts on Grandma Enggy's F-1 by Advanced? Local garden center has their pot growing stuff on clearance at 85% off, so I'm actually willing to shell out for it

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I don't, won't and never have used bone meal. I'm in the minority on this one so please disregard.

Work it into the soil - I can't see any real benefit from top-dressing. If you do top-dress then cover that with some amount of good quality compost or vermicompost.

CC

 

[Microbeman]

I don't, won't and never have used bone meal. I'm in the minority on this one so please disregard.

Work it into the soil - I can't see any real benefit from top-dressing. If you do top-dress then cover that with some amount of good quality compost or vermicompost.

CC

Same here - never used it, nor bloodmeal nor any blood.

 

[Gascanastan]

Same here - never used it, nor bloodmeal nor any blood.

.......ditto. Who came up with using blood...someone in the backwash of a Bakersfield pig farm?

 

[schwagg]

i thought it was in pixley or earlimart....

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Quick return to the Bio AG Ful Power - is it typically stocked in garden centers and/or nationally distributed, or is online likely the way to go?​

The prices posted at BioAg's web site include both S & H - they do not play the usual game like my recent purchase of AgSil - I bought 4 lbs. and the price is $29.00 and the 'handling' charges were $17.00 - that's close enough to call that 60%

"Handle this!"

Also, can someone break down the rwhole weird situation whereby fulvics and humics are both labeled as humic acid or something because of Cali's regulations?
​

Both California & Oregon do not allow for the term 'fulvic acid' on product labels which is best explained by an expert or at least the reasoning behind this regulation.

BTW - this had nothing, as in absolutely nothing to do with Oregon Tilth (OT) or California Certified Organic Farmers (CCOF) - this was the actions by the respective state Department of Agriculture.

Good call from my perspective

While we're at it, any thoughts on Grandma Enggy's F-1 by Advanced?​

A couple of thoughts come to mind such as "worthless as tits on a boar hog" or "smearing lipstick on a pig still makes for a bad date"

Local garden center has their pot growing stuff on clearance at 85% off, so I'm actually willing to shell out for it ​

Definitely priced correctly after the 'discount' so personally I would buy all that is available at that price and then head over to a store and pick-up Xmas decorations like the hokey pre-made bows with a peel-off back and dress up the bottles and give them away as gifts for the upcoming holiday season.

That's what I would do......

CC

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

They can afford it on the nutes cause they sell tiny bags of biochar for 12 bucks each

 

[BlueJayWay]

Quick return to the Bio AG Ful Power - is it typically stocked in garden centers and/or nationally distributed, or is online likely the way to go?

Also, can someone break down the rwhole weird situation whereby fulvics and humics are both labeled as humic acid or something because of Cali's regulations? While we're at it, any thoughts on Grandma Enggy's F-1 by Advanced? Local garden center has their pot growing stuff on clearance at 85% off, so I'm actually willing to shell out for it

From bioags website, the labeling comes down to Cali and I guess also Oregon not recognizing the difference, same product though.

http://www.bioag.com/buycropproducts/faqforhumicacids.html

Currently there is no industry standard for procedural analysis of humic and fulvic acids. Therefore suppliers use different test methods, which ultimately yield different results. Many tests lack thorough quantitative analysis, so often suppliers play the test game to see which one will yield the highest results so they can play the concentration game. The same substance sent to different labs will come back with a variety of numbers, depending on the labs methods. As an example, by the Verplogh and Brandvold method Ful-Power fulvic measures 8%. By the Classical Method the same fulvic measures .015%. It's noteworthy that when measuring for fulvic acid many tests include the weight of the chemical salts, leftover from the extraction method. As we do not use any chemicals to extract our fulvic the analysis we receive is actual. Additionally we are proud members of the International Humic Substance Society (IHSS) and support their recommended method, the Classical Method. The IHSS wishes to standardize industry procedures with a thorough analytical method, so as to alleviate consumer confusion and create an even playing field. However, thorough testing often results in lower numbers as salts and other substances are accounted for. With standardization many companies would loose their place in the market as numbers would reveal the truth of concentration. For many companies confusion has helped them maintain business. Please beware of anyone claiming unreasonable concentrations of liquid fulvic acid. While near impossible a LIQUID 90% fulvic acid will be thicker than cold molasses and you would only need a pin head as a dose. Often this percentage is in reference to the parent material, or raw ore and does not describe the product itself. The highest known liquid extractions are around 15% but are so chemically adulterated at this saturation that it's suspect to if they even work. Check out this article by Ryan Zadow on analysis and testing: The Real Dirt On Humic Substances.

4. Why do you not sell Ag grade Fulvic Acid in some states?

Because of the lack of industry standardized quantitative analysis, different states have different registration requirements. As example, neither Oregon nor California recognize fulvic acid as its own substance and instead refer to all of these substances under the humic acid umbrella.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Can we discuss re amending? How do you guys decide what is needed? not needed?

I still have this anal engineering background where I want to measure stuff and have metrics to shoot for.

I mean I get that the high cecs offer a lot of latitude...but at some point one could get shit completely out of balance...no?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

From bioags website, the labeling comes down to Cali and I guess also Oregon not recognizing the difference, same product though.

http://www.bioag.com/buycropproducts/faqforhumicacids.html

Currently there is no industry standard for procedural analysis of humic and fulvic acids. Therefore suppliers use different test methods, which ultimately yield different results. Many tests lack thorough quantitative analysis, so often suppliers play the test game to see which one will yield the highest results so they can play the concentration game. The same substance sent to different labs will come back with a variety of numbers, depending on the labs methods. As an example, by the Verplogh and Brandvold method Ful-Power fulvic measures 8%. By the Classical Method the same fulvic measures .015%. It's noteworthy that when measuring for fulvic acid many tests include the weight of the chemical salts, leftover from the extraction method. As we do not use any chemicals to extract our fulvic the analysis we receive is actual. Additionally we are proud members of the International Humic Substance Society (IHSS) and support their recommended method, the Classical Method. The IHSS wishes to standardize industry procedures with a thorough analytical method, so as to alleviate consumer confusion and create an even playing field. However, thorough testing often results in lower numbers as salts and other substances are accounted for. With standardization many companies would loose their place in the market as numbers would reveal the truth of concentration. For many companies confusion has helped them maintain business. Please beware of anyone claiming unreasonable concentrations of liquid fulvic acid. While near impossible a LIQUID 90% fulvic acid will be thicker than cold molasses and you would only need a pin head as a dose. Often this percentage is in reference to the parent material, or raw ore and does not describe the product itself. The highest known liquid extractions are around 15% but are so chemically adulterated at this saturation that it's suspect to if they even work. Check out this article by Ryan Zadow on analysis and testing: The Real Dirt On Humic Substances.

4. Why do you not sell Ag grade Fulvic Acid in some states?

Because of the lack of industry standardized quantitative analysis, different states have different registration requirements. As example, neither Oregon nor California recognize fulvic acid as its own substance and instead refer to all of these substances under the humic acid umbrella.

"Know your vendor's sources" definitely applies when looking at humic and fulvic acid

Black sand suspended in water via molasses isn't 'liquid humic acid"

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

Thoughts on Age Old's Humic 12? I have a big bottle sittin around so I've been working through it, but I'm curious

 

[rrog]

I don't know about getting too much, but am curious about amending, too. With EWC and Compost, wouldn't the initial use as well as top dressing of these two negate the need for the fulvic / humic acids being discussed. Use for germination is a separate deal, I'm just referring to the soil.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I don't know about getting too much, but am curious about amending, too. With EWC and Compost, wouldn't the initial use as well as top dressing of these two negate the need for the fulvic / humic acids being discussed. Use for germination is a separate deal, I'm just referring to the soil.

rrog

I could make both sides of the argument but there would have to be an even playing field for the discussion......

I'm using legitimate, viable compost or vermicompost

I'm considering using legitimate, viable humic and/or fulvic acids​

There's the kicker IMHO

CC

 

[Gascanastan]

Can we discuss re amending? How do you guys decide what is needed? not needed?

I still have this anal engineering background where I want to measure stuff and have metrics to shoot for.

I mean I get that the high cecs offer a lot of latitude...but at some point one could get shit completely out of balance...no?

A lot depends on the health of the plants growing in the soil you plan on re-amending. How well did they do? Did you notice any problems?

After a few cycles of recycling the soil,it really just takes care of itself...simple things like kelp and fish meal are the two main re-amending components...and tiny amounts at that. Keep up with aeration/drainage amendments as you continue to add organic materials.

What does your current soil mix have in it...name everything and I'll give you a Swami Kushendez estimate of amendments and maybe suggest adding a few new things....you know he knows his shit..like those pot gurus Ed and Kyle..

...It's these re-amending times when you can add new items like horsetail,comfrey,clays,etc..

 

[rrog]

Being a simpleton, I like to simplify, so if I was just as well off relying on composts, I'd have more time to BBQ and such. All this talk of charcoal makes me want to try my hand at making some for the Egg

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

Being a simpleton, I like to simplify, so if I was just as well off relying on composts, I'd have more time to BBQ and such. All this talk of charcoal makes me want to try my hand at making some for the Egg

You can do a badass South African style BBQ:
1. Dig pit
2. Build huge box fire
3. Bury huge box fire for 8 hours or so
4. Cook entire animal on coals

 

[ClackamasCootz]

From the pit master himself - David Klose in Houston, Texas. He builds some of the best units available. The largest one that came out of his shop was one for the Budweiser company - 48' and can cook something like 2,200 lbs. at a time.

Smokin' Hawg

 

[Gascanastan]

Gawd damn^^^....stainless steal and gold plated rims. I smell American meaty BBQ goodness..

 

[YosemiteSam]

Quick return to the Bio AG Ful Power - is it typically stocked in garden centers and/or nationally distributed, or is online likely the way to go?

Also, can someone break down the rwhole weird situation whereby fulvics and humics are both labeled as humic acid or something because of Cali's regulations? While we're at it, any thoughts on Grandma Enggy's F-1 by Advanced? Local garden center has their pot growing stuff on clearance at 85% off, so I'm actually willing to shell out for it

It seems to me the fact they say (or imply) that it is pot growing stuff is nothing more than a license to steal. When we let them define pot as a different or high value or whatever else marketing bullshit we agreed to be raped.

A plant is a plant. We should never support that fucking industry...not even when they drop the price...it just means they have been fucking someone else.

They give everyone the good ol boy 20% discount...every time I get that I hate the motherfucker cause probably it means he got me a couple of times just for fun

 

[rrog]

I looked at Klose and talked to him once. Great rigs if you cook for a crowd.