Lion Lured Out Of Park, Killed.

[HempKat]

No. The professional hunter is the main guide who gets a concession to hunt an area from the government. The dentist was the client. Under the pH you have trackers, guides, skinners, and those who set up and maintained n bait stations.

And to the guy who said he lives in South Africa aren't lions feared as terrible predators of local villages? They aren't crying for Cecil I bet, just hoping they aren't food when they leave the hut to piss at night.

Well on everything I've read about this story the only one doing the hunting was the dentist. Further the guides were always referred to as just that, guides. Even when the dentist tried to explain himself they were only referred to as guides. The term "professional hunter", was something I started using as a way of distinguishing someone willing to kill a semi docile animal that had been lured out of a protected area as opposed to someone willing to go and actually track/hunt an animal in the wild. The former being an "amateur" and the latter being the "professional". As for local villages no they weren't crying for Cecil but then again there probably aren't any "local Villages" within this protected zone of the park which Cecil had been staying for the past 6-7 years. So the local villages and villagers had no reason to feel one way or another about Cecil.

 

[Wendull C.]

It is confusing. In the US the hunter is the client and the guide is the guide. Then you have what is known as an outfitter who runs lots of guides and camps and is more comparable to a professional hunter.

And there is a reason native Africans surround their camps with thorn trees at night. So they don't get dragged away and eaten by a lion , leopard, or hyena to name a few. If my family had to live that way I would hunt and kill every predator near my home, and I would give a damn if one had a name.

 

[HempKat]

It is confusing. In the US the hunter is the client and the guide is the guide. Then you have what is known as an outfitter who runs lots of guides and camps and is more comparable to a professional hunter.

And there is a reason native Africans surround their camps with thorn trees at night. So they don't get dragged away and eaten by a lion , leopard, or hyena to name a few. If my family had to live that way I would hunt and kill every predator near my home, and I would give a damn if one had a name.

Yeah and I bet nobody would fault you for it either. The main reason this case has gotten the attention it has is due more to the lion was lured out of a protected area to be killed rather then the fact he had a name. Generally these protected zones don't have villages within them since they're established to protect the animals within them. Had this Dentist or his family been threatened by this lion and that's why he killed it then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Hell I wouldn't have a problem with it even if he was killed for sport but in a more humane way then wounding it and leaving it suffering for almost 3 days before finally killing it and without it being lured out of a protected area.

I'm not some PETA person who gets all up in arms every time any animal is killed. I don't care for hunting as a sport myself but do recognize other people have a right to hunt as long as it's done in an ethical and legal way.

 

[Wendull C.]

Didn't mean to seem argumentative. There is just so much misinformation about hunting that I wanted to say what a professional hunter was.
Hope you have a good day man.

 

[angelgoob]

What about the thousands of chickens, turkeys, cows, and fish we eat each year?

Where's the outrage on that.

 

[Dropped Cat]

What about the thousands of chickens, turkeys, cows, and fish we eat each year?

Where's the outrage on that.

lol, vegans got that covered.

Silly human race.

 

[armedoldhippy]

What about the thousands of chickens, turkeys, cows, and fish we eat each year?

Where's the outrage on that.

no one gives them names, LOL! face it, if you had to kill to eat meat, there would be a lot fewer animal rights nuts running around.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

What about the thousands of chickens, turkeys, cows, and fish we eat each year?

Where's the outrage on that.

Are you seriously trying to compare animals that are raised to be consumed with the illegal killing of Cecil, an animal that was protected and is not normally eaten?

 

[armedoldhippy]

You write out a long response essentially saying the same thing you've said several times now and yet you felt the need to save time by abbreviating professional hunter? First off the "Professional Hunter" was the client the "Guides" job is to take the hunter to an area where he will find the particular game he is looking for. As for gusts of wind and twigs, yeah sure, those things can interfere with a shot of an amateur but a skilled marksman/hunter knows how to adjust and account for those things. When using a high powered rifle from a great distance the hunter can take his time and wait for opportunities to take a clean shot when conditions are optimal. That's under normal circumstances in this case thanks to a relatively safe life in a protected park Cecil had grown semi docile and accustom to humans coming by regularly to take pictures thereby allowing humans to get much closer to him without fear of being attacked. It was precisely this that made him so well known and beloved by people from around the world. People who annually would come and pay approximately 10G's per day for an opportunity to photograph Cecil. It is this revenue that concern over a decline in revenue would happen since this kind of revenue could match the revenue from the death of Cecil, in just 5 days of photographing, also leaving the opportunity for this revenue to continue since it left Cecil alive rather then a one time hunt where Cecil was killed leaving no opportunity for future revenue from interest in that particular lion.

The fact that Cecil had become semi-docile allowing humans to get closer then a fully wild lion would allow (as close as 33 feet) was because he had learned that humans didn't seem to pose much of a threat since they were only taking pictures. Also at 13 years old he was nearing the end of a normal lifespan for lions and that probably also played a role in him being more docile then a younger adult lion in the wild. Now it is true that this park wasn't just some fenced in petting zoo. Rather it was a defined boundary that humans were/are expected to respect. Animals however do start to recognize that if they stay within a given area they are not typically threatened by hunters. As such Cecil had been living in this perceived safe zone since 2008. Since that time Cecil had established 2 different prides within the park. The second pride was established because Cecil had been run out of his previous pride by two younger lions. Typically lions don't roam all over the place but rather they find a spot where there is plenty of food and they stay in that area. What better place for that then a park where hunting is not allowed?

It was said earlier that the thrill of the sport is in the hunt, not the kill. There was no hunting to this kill though, just an old lion who was lured out of a protected zone and was docile enough for the hunter to get close enough to first attempt killing him with a bow and arrow. That doesn't sound like much of a hunt to me. Further, if the Dentist/Hunter was all about the hunt then why wasn't he questioning why this lion had to be lured away from where he was? If he thought everything was on the up and up why didn't he just attempt to hunt the lion where it was? I don't buy for an instant that he didn't realize anything they were doing was wrong.

lion prides move when the food moves. gnu, antelope, zebra and such migrate. the folks that were within 33 feet of him were in cars, bet your life on it. some of you are so POSITIVE that this fellow did something illegal that i am afraid for your sanity if he is cleared. more likely though, that you will similarly assume that he "bought his way out, everyone KNOWS he is a (fill in the blank)" if he broke the law, fine, throw the fucking book at him. but these folks that have already found him guilty based on "what i read/heard" are pitiful excuses for human beings, and i hope you NEVER get called for jury duty..."skilled marksmen" miss and wound animals too. do you regularly deny reality, or is this the only place that you act like this?

 

[armedoldhippy]

Are you seriously trying to compare animals that are raised to be consumed with the illegal killing of Cecil, an animal that was protected and is not normally eaten?

it has been "alleged" not proven, to be an illegal kill, and yes, folks have been eating lion in Africa just about as long as lions have been eating humans in Africa...was it at the top of the menu? probably not, considering the risk involved in killing one. especially compared to the folks that PAY to have someone else slaughter their meals for them...

 

[Wendull C.]

Let's leave the beefs out of this. My steaks go with my guns and dogs, from my cold dead hands.

 

[angelgoob]

I wasn't posting my own opinion about the fish, cows and chickens. I'm just saying they're animals and they get killed. I guess vegans do have that covered though, they've been outraged about all that stuff.

The thing that gets me is this is like cutting down a tree for no reason except to watch it tumble. Nothing but a thrill, if you will.

I love steaks. I like chicken. What we are doing is illegal sometimes.

You might think I'm all for killing Cecil but I see both sides obviously and I don't come to a conclusion, that's the point about non-judgement.

 

[mrcreosote]

What about the thousands of chickens, turkeys, cows, and fish we eat each year?

Where's the outrage on that.

I cover mine with gravy.

 

[Capt.Ahab]

The EPA, the same agency that would willingly fine you thousands of dollars per day if you use some water out of a stream to grow a few plants is doing a good job wiping out several species of endangered fish and wildlife right here in the US. Where is the outrage on that?

 

[armedoldhippy]

The EPA, the same agency that would willingly fine you thousands of dollars per day if you use some water out of a stream to grow a few plants is doing a good job wiping out several species of endangered fish and wildlife right here in the US. Where is the outrage on that?

they don't CARE if something goes extinct, unless they can somehow tie "bloodthirsty hunters" to the disappearance. build a mall/parking lot/stadium and wipe something out- "oh well...that's progress..."

 

[HempKat]

lion prides move when the food moves. gnu, antelope, zebra and such migrate. the folks that were within 33 feet of him were in cars, bet your life on it. some of you are so POSITIVE that this fellow did something illegal that i am afraid for your sanity if he is cleared. more likely though, that you will similarly assume that he "bought his way out, everyone KNOWS he is a (fill in the blank)" if he broke the law, fine, throw the fucking book at him. but these folks that have already found him guilty based on "what i read/heard" are pitiful excuses for human beings, and i hope you NEVER get called for jury duty..."skilled marksmen" miss and wound animals too. do you regularly deny reality, or is this the only place that you act like this?

Sounds like you are the one out of touch with reality, you are ready to say this guy is a skilled marksman because skilled marksman sometimes miss, which may be true but the find their mark more often then not which is what earns the title "skilled". Just because you can find rare occurrences that support your view doesn't make you correct.

All I'm saying though is that this guy lured out and killed an animal that was semi docile and old, for what? Sport? I don't see much support in luring and old non aggressive lion out of a protected area. Sport hunting in my book is when you actually go hunt the animal in the wild. Had this guy done that he wouldn't have killed Cecil and so there would be no outrage. Nobody would be crying for his blood if he legally got permission to hunt lions in the wild and did so. A big part of the anger towards this guy isn't really about him killing Cecil but the fact that he lured Cecil out of a protected area to do it.

Like I said nobody would be making a fuss had he gone into the wild and bagged a lion. Just as nobody would be outraged if someone killed a lion for terrorizing a village. Even Big game hunters have come out against this dentist not only because he did things the wrong way but because it puts all of big game hunting in a bad light.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/0...-game-hunters-on-defensive-amid-cecil-uproar/

 

[HempKat]

they don't CARE if something goes extinct, unless they can somehow tie "bloodthirsty hunters" to the disappearance. build a mall/parking lot/stadium and wipe something out- "oh well...that's progress..."

The only way that can happen is if nobody cares about or is paying attention to whatever is going extinct. One of the quickest and easiest ways for someone or a group to fight a construction project they feel is bad is if they can prove it endangers an already endangered species.

 

[armedoldhippy]

The only way that can happen is if nobody cares about or is paying attention to whatever is going extinct. One of the quickest and easiest ways for someone or a group to fight a construction project they feel is bad is if they can prove it endangers an already endangered species.

yes, but it almost never works in the long run. read up on what happened to the Tellico River, in south-east Tennessee. if the money wants it done, it gets done.

 

[PrimalHaze]

take up running

take up running

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...killing-as-proof-of-manhood-embraces-running/

 

[armedoldhippy]

Sounds like you are the one out of touch with reality, you are ready to say this guy is a skilled marksman because skilled marksman sometimes miss, which may be true but the find their mark more often then not which is what earns the title "skilled". Just because you can find rare occurrences that support your view doesn't make you correct.

All I'm saying though is that this guy lured out and killed an animal that was semi docile and old, for what? Sport? I don't see much support in luring and old non aggressive lion out of a protected area. Sport hunting in my book is when you actually go hunt the animal in the wild. Had this guy done that he wouldn't have killed Cecil and so there would be no outrage. Nobody would be crying for his blood if he legally got permission to hunt lions in the wild and did so. A big part of the anger towards this guy isn't really about him killing Cecil but the fact that he lured Cecil out of a protected area to do it.

Like I said nobody would be making a fuss had he gone into the wild and bagged a lion. Just as nobody would be outraged if someone killed a lion for terrorizing a village. Even Big game hunters have come out against this dentist not only because he did things the wrong way but because it puts all of big game hunting in a bad light.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/0...-game-hunters-on-defensive-amid-cecil-uproar/

nope, not "rare" for expert marksmen to miss. animals MOVE at the darndest times. "marksmen" just miss less often than normal people that do not practice as much. it STILL has not been proved that the dentist knew the hunt was staged, so to speak, or that it even was. it looks bad for the guides because apparently (not yet proven) they had failed to get a lion hunting permit for that area. if you have any evidence that a court would not laugh at, you need to call the U.S. Fish & Wildlife folks because they are investigating this. merely regurgitating animal rights groups press releases gets you no credit with me. i deal in facts, and we know how many people have opinions...