SeniorBuzz
Member
Growers are against this as they rightfully feel threatened at losing their ability to gain income by growing.
Legalize MJ ! Really? No I mean REALLY?
- Thread starter grapeman
- Start date
Well with no effective tax and a relatively inelastic demand for cannabis most of the surplus goes to growers. If there is a substantial tax there will be a large transfer of surplus from commercial growers to the government (i.e. they will accept reduced profits - and perhaps increased competition from v. large commercial interest and from backyard-closet gardeners).
I really have nothing against commercial growers, but I think cannabis should be taxed and regulated on theoretical grounds and CA needs all the tax revenue it can get.
Pine
I have an opposing view. Instead of taxing us, them and everyone, maybe CA can cut their fucking payroll (yes fire some worthless government employees), cut back on pensions and benefits so government employees can once again live like us regular Joes instead of like kings, and queens once they retire from their bloodsucking worthless jobs.
I for one am tired of every election cycle seeing some actor in a fireman or policeman outfit telling us that our house is going to burn down or we will be murdered in our house if we don't vote one of their cronies in office that will keep pumping our tax dollars into their unsustainable pension and benefit packages.
I see you point and CA does have some powerful public sector employee lobbies, but a lot of public sector employees make a deal; they accept lower salaries in exchange for more generous benefits (retirement or otherwise). Other thing to consider is that pension benefits are a promise, in many cases a legal obligation, and eventual beneficiaries make long term financial decisions based on this promise.
Pine
Most govt. workers dont get paid shit.....
but it all boils down to money!
all the prohibitionist "arguments" against this bill are obfuscations to smoke screen the real motive. fear of loss drives your reptilian brain to knee jerk against a bill that will get the ball moving in the right direction
SeniorBuzz
Member
CA allegedly has a $500 Billion unfunded public pension liability.
many in the private sector have already lost their pensions
or lost the money in their 401K
government public union employees earn 45% more than in the private sector
government employees earn 45% more than in the private sector
corrections officers average over $100,000 a year (union)
firemen and police officers have 90% pensions (union)
garbagemen earn $100,000
1 out of ever 5 employees works for the government
4 of us pay for each of those persons earning 1.45 times as much as we do
SeniorBuzz
Member
not to change the subject, but
theoretically you could have a large-scale production-line indoor grow that is insulated from bugs and disease.
and if every precaution is taken, you should never have to worry about bugs and disease in your grow room
if so, then the chemical issue goes away
theoretically you could have a large-scale production-line indoor grow that is insulated from bugs and disease.
and if every precaution is taken, you should never have to worry about bugs and disease in your grow room
if so, then the chemical issue goes away
Thank you for saying this out loud.
SeniorBuzz
Member
don't get me started....lol
we couldn't even dream up a scenario like this.
if people aren't beginning to get scared, ignorance is bliss.
but when I take a good look at what is going on, I can't help but worry.
not so much for myself, as I'm up in years, and fairly well insulated
but for so many others, in uncharted waters, who will get tossed about by what is ahead of us.
binaryfission
Member
since we are getting so heated i here, anyone with facts? those things that prove what you are saying?
no offense to you Senior Buzz, i just figures you could handle the attention without blowing your top.
SeniorBuzz
Member
those are facts bf
binaryfission
Member
so when i say i can grow 1000 #'s out of a shot glass under cfl's that is fact too?
Come on now, don't play these games with me. You are a reporter right? You need sources.
I don't believe talking heads or typing avatars just based on who they are. Neither should you.
SeniorBuzz
Member
bf, for your own education, and edification, I would suggest you try googling anything that you don't happen to believe; the information is available.
so when i say i can grow 1000 #'s out of a shot glass under cfl's that is fact too?
Come on now, don't play these games with me. You are a reporter right? You need sources.
I don't believe talking heads or typing avatars just based on who they are. Neither should you.
otherwise: http://bit.ly/aweXpC and click on the first link you see
believe it, or not, you can find almost anything from there
There is a lot of guess work around these numbers. Apparently the authors of the study upon which this number is based assumed a 4.14 rate of return on pension fund assets. The pension funds come up with their own shortfall number of $50m using the historical 7.5 percent rate of return of their portfolios.
Also the $500m number is before the recession so if you believe it the reality is actually worse.
Source: Wall Street Journal - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303695604575181983634524348.html
The corrections officer thing burns me up because it is in their interest to have more people in prison with consequences for individual nonviolent offenders and the state's budget.
How about teachers? My impression is that they do not earn very much, especially when the high cost of living is factored in.
As a side note I agree with others that some legitimate sources (without shady looking links) would be appreciated if for no other reason than it would provide details of the methodology. For example, when you say public sector employees earn 1.45 times private sector employees is that for the same jobs, some credentials, ect? If they aren't it isn't a very useful figure.
Pine
SeniorBuzz
Member
Thanks for digging up the info, pine; it takes time to go back and pull up the information
the 1.45 is for all else being equal, job for job
I've posted many links on Twitter, and elsewhere, with this information, but those systems aren't designed for immediate retrieval. I post info in comments on Wall St. articles frequently.
as soon as I get my blog working, I'll be able to retrieve info, including links, immediately..that's what it is designed to do
thanks again
Well, if the unions would stop spending their monies (to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars) in each election cycle to elect cronies to keep their asses afloat, and spend these monies as they are supposed to be spent, me thinks they would not be suffering such a short fall of funds.
Unions are the only organizations in this country that are more corrupt then our federal government.
I say let them wither and dry up. I never hire union workers if I have other options.
But back to the legalization question.....
J
Jah's Son
Hi guys.
I'm a Canadian/American dual citizen. I was considering a guerilla grow this season (in Canada. I haven't lived in the US in very many years), even going so far as to purchase seeds. I wanted to be able to smoke as much as I wanted for the entire year, if not longer (converting most of the MJ to hash, which I much prefer for every day use).
I don't find this unreasonable.
But the fact is, that men and women I ordinarily respect (not for every aspect of their job, but for parts) are being trained, supplied, and operated with money supplied by every working person I know, myself included, to find and destroy the lives of everybody who conducts the very act I was contemplating.
How is that fair?
I assume you are all (or most of you are) MJ smokers. If I want to grow my own and not fund gangsters who use murder and torture to remain the people who supply my marijuana, then I must grow my own. And yet by doing so, I would be engaging in an act that my society deems so evil that I should be placed in an institution in which men are routinely raped, severely injured, or killed.
Again, how is that fair?
Decriminalization in Canada was a reality for a while. Harper is a piece of shit, however, and his government has done much to bring Canada away from the final goal of legalization.
During decriminalization, however, grow-op busts were still frequent. Furthermore, small mom and pop style ops were being targeted and robbed by gangsters and piece of shit gangster wannabes.
There is a mandatory minimum of 6 months in Canada for any and all cultivation.
Decrim of use does nothing to change that.
But I'd still have to pay for pot.
Why can't I just live my life, and have that life include very large amounts of this medicine? That's all I'm asking for here.
I don't care if other people are paying for corporate garbage, or if a lot of commercial growers would get fucked over. I just want to produce a plant for my own use without having to live my life thinking I could get assfucked by some guy for doing so.
I understand your argument grapeman. I'm assuming from your name and your avatar that you commercially produce grapes, and maybe something else too, or not. And I'm sorry if the USDA is a pain in your ass. But the thing is that even if "moonshine" style weed production was still illegal, enforcement would plummet. You're not going to have PDs funding high cost helicopter or FLIR operations without the possibility of finding a major organized crime operation. And the fact that ordinary people the country over wouldn't have to deal with that kind of fear and paranoia in their lives IMO makes up for the hit taken by small businesses.
One other effect of legalization of production would be the rapid cost reduction of the price of the product. When marijuana is simply an agricultural product like tobacco, even with extreme tax, you will inevitably see a price drop, especially in black market product, as diversion of legal product enters the supply stream. When the sale price available to violent gangsters drops, you will see a lot less gangster on producer potentially violent robbery.
Every person I know who has routinely large amounts of product on hand at a time has been robbed at some point. That too, is just not fair.
PS: I'm a little intoxicated, sorry if this comes across like a bit of a rant.
I'm a Canadian/American dual citizen. I was considering a guerilla grow this season (in Canada. I haven't lived in the US in very many years), even going so far as to purchase seeds. I wanted to be able to smoke as much as I wanted for the entire year, if not longer (converting most of the MJ to hash, which I much prefer for every day use).
I don't find this unreasonable.
But the fact is, that men and women I ordinarily respect (not for every aspect of their job, but for parts) are being trained, supplied, and operated with money supplied by every working person I know, myself included, to find and destroy the lives of everybody who conducts the very act I was contemplating.
How is that fair?
I assume you are all (or most of you are) MJ smokers. If I want to grow my own and not fund gangsters who use murder and torture to remain the people who supply my marijuana, then I must grow my own. And yet by doing so, I would be engaging in an act that my society deems so evil that I should be placed in an institution in which men are routinely raped, severely injured, or killed.
Again, how is that fair?
Decriminalization in Canada was a reality for a while. Harper is a piece of shit, however, and his government has done much to bring Canada away from the final goal of legalization.
During decriminalization, however, grow-op busts were still frequent. Furthermore, small mom and pop style ops were being targeted and robbed by gangsters and piece of shit gangster wannabes.
There is a mandatory minimum of 6 months in Canada for any and all cultivation.
Decrim of use does nothing to change that.
But I'd still have to pay for pot.
Why can't I just live my life, and have that life include very large amounts of this medicine? That's all I'm asking for here.
I don't care if other people are paying for corporate garbage, or if a lot of commercial growers would get fucked over. I just want to produce a plant for my own use without having to live my life thinking I could get assfucked by some guy for doing so.
I understand your argument grapeman. I'm assuming from your name and your avatar that you commercially produce grapes, and maybe something else too, or not. And I'm sorry if the USDA is a pain in your ass. But the thing is that even if "moonshine" style weed production was still illegal, enforcement would plummet. You're not going to have PDs funding high cost helicopter or FLIR operations without the possibility of finding a major organized crime operation. And the fact that ordinary people the country over wouldn't have to deal with that kind of fear and paranoia in their lives IMO makes up for the hit taken by small businesses.
One other effect of legalization of production would be the rapid cost reduction of the price of the product. When marijuana is simply an agricultural product like tobacco, even with extreme tax, you will inevitably see a price drop, especially in black market product, as diversion of legal product enters the supply stream. When the sale price available to violent gangsters drops, you will see a lot less gangster on producer potentially violent robbery.
Every person I know who has routinely large amounts of product on hand at a time has been robbed at some point. That too, is just not fair.
PS: I'm a little intoxicated, sorry if this comes across like a bit of a rant.
