LED and BUD QUALITY

[little-soldier]

some leds mids grower @Solon

what is that a super silver haze that is high yielding. you could probably grow thick buds like that with fluorescent lights lol just kidding but genetics is key to yield

 

[WHIPEDMEAT]

what is that a super silver haze that is high yielding. you could probably grow thick buds like that with fluorescent lights lol just kidding but genetics is key to yield

2 different phenos of liberty haze (g13 chem) x malawi

 

[Crooked8]

 

[Crooked8]

Perhaps not too intense for them, but rather too intense to replace florescents. He is moving from the lowest output lights, to the highest output lights. The loss of colour suggests the feed wasn't increased in line with the lighting. A lot of LED adopters thought they could just swap lights and do nothing else.

Starved plants try to flower, before it's too late. The puzzle pieces fit, but what we really don't know, is anything about how bright it is under either lighting. Something a light meter might not help with. So as you say, we need a lot more parameters before anything solid could be said.

I had similar issues vegging under led at first. Same symptoms and it was because they werent dimmed down enough especially in early veg. Just like flower, they seem to stay happiest when you go from very dimmed to brighter light with time. He mentioned seedlings so they seriously shouldnt be exceeding like 150-200 umol. Early veg i shoot for 2-300 then towards the end of veg i try to ramp them up to 400+ and still see some strains get a little pissy. But yeah thats just my experience and as you said we have no other info so were guessing hard hah.

 

[Ca++]

Ahhh... you have such wonderful pleasures to look forward to. It's unrealistic to expect overfed, non-filtered air cannabis to taste the same as the roach end. Excepting the paper flavor (which you can definitely tell), your results (with properly fed cannabis) should be the exact same as a tightly packed bowl. White, fluffy, super-lightweight ash that blows away on a puff of air, and a final exhale so tasty you want to eat the taste and smell of it.

Cannabis is a dynamic accumulator, so almost ANY excess elements WILL get bound to new growth tissue where it will remain till harvest and beyond. (No, even mobile elements do not 'flush' out after being bound) Err on the side of underfeeding and you'll likely see what I mean.

(Edit: I'm a super taster, and can almost smell/taste a gnat fart from 6 feet away. Use double fabric softener on your shirt and I can taste/feel the oils from it on my tongue at almost 20 feet. )sh isn't an indicator of

For prospective, paper tastes about as much as weed. It's not a case of if you can tell or not. I think everyone here can tell the difference between papers. People simply get used to it. Much like tobacco. Who's ash is generally white, but not because it's lacking chems. It's quite the opposite, and loaded with things to help the burn. The hotter the burn, the more complete, and as such, the whiter the ash. Cannabis doesn't burn so hot, and is hopefully full of oils.

I can low feed in cold conditions as you do, but I don't want that weed. Long term storage has a similar effect, or washing then drying in the light. Whatever the product is though, I know if smoke and combustion products have passed through it. No if's but's or maybe's. Nothing subtle. Drawing through a spliff that's once been lit, and one that's never been lit, are not in the slightest bit comparable. That moment the lighter first comes into contact, is vaping. That first flare of heat in the bowl releases a flavour that can't be returned. It's just not possible. I'm not missing out. This is science denial.

 

[Ca++]

Switching in MH I suffered from the lower lumens, with no benefit seen to counter the loss at all. MH sidelighting in darker or lagging areas always made them look great, but only because MH is a better light for photographic purposes. Once in the bag, the MH buds just looked a bit greener. For smoke purposes, they were not worth keeping separate.

I think LED seems to promote better N uptake. As yet it's just a casual observation, so it would be interesting to get some opinions on that

 

[weedemart]

I had similar issues vegging under led at first. Same symptoms and it was because they werent dimmed down enough especially in early veg. Just like flower, they seem to stay happiest when you go from very dimmed to brighter light with time. He mentioned seedlings so they seriously shouldnt be exceeding like 150-200 umol. Early veg i shoot for 2-300 then towards the end of veg i try to ramp them up to 400 and still see some strains get a little pissy. But yeah thats just my experience and as you said we have no other info so were guessing hard hah.

You can easily give 30-40 moles/day , so 500-700 umols/s from start. look my grow....the issue is photon capture. most of the light is waste.

when you get yellowing with led its because you are co2 limited. I get this when I go above 50moles/day for few days with atmospheric co2. I try to keep 40-45 moles/days with good air exchange and they stay green.

 

[Crooked8]

You can easily give 30-40 moles/day , so 500-700 umols/s from start. look my grow....the issue is photon capture. most of the light is waste.

when you get yellowing with led its because you are co2 limited. I get this when I go above 50moles/day for few days with atmospheric co2. I try to keep 40-45 moles/days with good air exchange and they stay green.

The recommended umol for veg is like 250-400, i try to push that higher to get them ready for the flower. And my experience is always with co2 enrichment. Dimming the lights from the start solved the yellowing issues a long time ago. Like i said even when i push to the 5 range now before flower some plants will show me they dont like it. Tbh when you look this up theres like 10 different answers. Ime my veg stays healthiest with this method.

 

[weedemart]

The recommended umol for veg is like 250-400, i try to push that higher to get them ready for the flower. And my experience is always with co2 enrichment. Dimming the lights from the start solved the yellowing issues a long time ago. Like i said even when i push to the 5 range now before flower some plants will show me they dont like it. Tbh when you look this up theres like 10 different answers. Ime my veg stays healthiest with this method.

D22
ec 0.6
ph 5.2 @ 6.5@rootzone
45mole

Will probly see somes preflowers soon

That's a tight morphology.
View attachment 18973845 View attachment 18973844

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

No if's but's or maybe's. Nothing subtle. Drawing through a spliff that's once been lit, and one that's never been lit, are not in the slightest bit comparable. That moment the lighter first comes into contact, is vaping. That first flare of heat in the bowl releases a flavour that can't be returned. It's just not possible. I'm not missing out. This is science denial.

Yeah, you're definitely not as sensitive as I am as far as taste and smell goes. I really cannot stand the taste of paper, and it only gets worse as the joint is burned further down.

You're wrong about the cannabis though, and I mean seriously wrong. Yes, unburned doobie tastes very different from burned cannabis. No, clean burning cannabis does NOT change significantly between the first exhale and the last.

Nutrients accumulate and taste terrible when heated. The more concentrated in a roach, the nastier they taste. The same goes for hair and dust and mold spores and insecticide/organicides/fungicides. They all have terrible flavors when burned, and these flavors only get worse as they become concentrated.

Clean cannabis has almost zero 'burnt flavor' to it when burned, and this minimal amount concentrated has a VERY minimal effect on the end flavor/aroma of a bowl.

EVERYthing you say about your experience with your cannabis tells me you have a lot of amazing times left to experience. Denying it does not change my perspective of your cannabis quality, and your reasoning only confirms it. We all have a lot to learn in life, but I've already learned this lesson.

 

[greyfader]

The recommended umol for veg is like 250-400, i try to push that higher to get them ready for the flower. And my experience is always with co2 enrichment. Dimming the lights from the start solved the yellowing issues a long time ago. Like i said even when i push to the 5 range now before flower some plants will show me they dont like it. Tbh when you look this up theres like 10 different answers. Ime my veg stays healthiest with this method.

there has to be more to this than light and co2 as i vegged my last plants at 1200 ppfd for 12 hours a day for a DLI of about 52 with no supplemented co2.

i also vegged at ec1.8 or 900 ppm. i saw no displays. here's one of the plants at the flip after 3 weeks veg under these conditions.

 

[Rocket Soul]

there has to be more to this than light and co2 as i vegged my last plants at 1200 ppfd for 12 hours a day for a DLI of about 52 with no supplemented co2.

i also vegged at ec1.8 or 900 ppm. i saw no displays. here's one of the plants at the flip after 3 weeks veg under these conditions.

View attachment 18985277

Have you got settled into your new place enough to get a grow on again? Plants are looking on point

 

[greyfader]

Have you got settled into your new place enough to get a grow on again? Plants are looking on point

no, i still have to finish building a 600 sq ft outbuilding that's framed out but about 90% skinned. then i have to waterproof it with shingles. then i have to build a room within that. insulate the small room, install all equipment, wire it up with it's own panel.

i figure about 3 months as i'm working alone part-time daily. at 73 i don't do anything fast anymore.

these last pics are from my last grow in the old house.

i'm maintaining a single clone donor of the Blue Star OG in a closet. it's getting huge so i'm about to have to clone it and grow out another one.

i want to bring up the fact that i had no co2 supplementation during this last grow. there seems to be an idea that if you are running more than about 1000 umols ppfd that you must have additional co2 to realize an increase in yield.

this is not true. i got 2.4 lbs from the pictured plant, it never saw less than 1000 umols ppfd and got an average of about 1200 throughout most of veg and all of flower. ec max around 1.8, and no additional co2.

yet showed no displays at all throughout the grow. i had a co2 monitor in the room and it showed that i never got below ambient co2, which was about 425 ppm at this location.

i probably would have yielded more with co2 supplementation but i did well without it. the next grow will be in a sealed space with co2 so we'll see the difference.

this is why i think that there's more to this reaction than just light and co2.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

i figure about 3 months as i'm working alone part-time daily. at 73 i don't do anything fast anymore.

Slow, steady, safe... till you get the job done. As long as it gets done and done right, and we don't get hurt doing it, doesn't matter how fast it is at our age.

this is why i think that there's more to this reaction than just light and co2.

I agree wholeheartedly! I'm sure there's a study somewhere or somebody's anecdotal evidence that states you have to use supplemental CO2 at high light levels for increased yield, over a certain point of illumination... but that hasn't been my experience either.

Especially when you get into late generation F3 - F6 plants, that have had nothing but intense light levels for multi-generations. Imnsho, supplemental CO2 is not worth the extra effort _and_ cost that it takes to maintain proper levels.

For my plants and my environment, maintaining a quite brutal KISS method is what works for me.

I could add the almost mandatory and illustratory budshot here to _really_ drive home my point but why bother? I'm pretty sure there's a separate thread for bud shots here on ICM, for people who want to impress with budshots.

My work speaks for itself.

 

[greyfader]

Slow, steady, safe... till you get the job done. As long as it gets done and done right, and we don't get hurt doing it, doesn't matter how fast it is at our age.


I agree wholeheartedly! I'm sure there's a study somewhere or somebody's anecdotal evidence that states you have to use supplemental CO2 at high light levels for increased yield, over a certain point of illumination... but that hasn't been my experience either.

Especially when you get into late generation F3 - F6 plants, that have had nothing but intense light levels for multi-generations. Imnsho, supplemental CO2 is not worth the extra effort _and_ cost that it takes to maintain proper levels.

For my plants and my environment, maintaining a quite brutal KISS method is what works for me.

I could add the almost mandatory and illustratory budshot here to _really_ drive home my point but why bother? I'm pretty sure there's a separate thread for bud shots here on ICM, for people who want to impress with budshots.

My work speaks for itself.

the co2/ light level thing has been mentioned on this thread several times so i just thought i would throw in my 2 cents.

i think you are right about the genetics designed for indoor high-light environments. i could be having my experience because i tend to focus on high-yielding indoor hybrids that grow fast and get big.

in an unsealed room airflow is key. not only through the room but intra-room as well.

also, it could have to do with the dynamics of the growing system that i use. the PPK maintains almost perfect root zone conditions as far as the interface of roots, water, nutrients, and medium are concerned.

this probably gets the plant through high-light stress and environmental stress conditions in better shape than some other methods.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

in an unsealed room airflow is key. not only through the room but intra-room as well.

I'm right there with you on air velocity and I'm in tents.

From the time just after seedling stage until harvest, my plants are subjected to gale force-like winds, 24/7:






In addition, the tents are evacuated with a 570 CFM Terrabloom EC fan, so the plants are subjected to massive amounts of circulation and ventilation. Helps with PM and botrytis too.

 

[dogzter]

I run 440 cfm inlines 24\7 through the tents as well.
Fesh air in exhaust the old out.

 

[Hammerhead]

100% head stash. She is very potent, makes your face sweat !. Destiny x Sowahh

 

[Crooked8]

there has to be more to this than light and co2 as i vegged my last plants at 1200 ppfd for 12 hours a day for a DLI of about 52 with no supplemented co2.

i also vegged at ec1.8 or 900 ppm. i saw no displays. here's one of the plants at the flip after 3 weeks veg under these conditions.

View attachment 18985277

When it comes to led and veg, honestly im no expert. Ive just seen what happens when i crank the light up and early on it caused some issues. 1200 ppfd for veg sounds very intense, did they start out that way or did you work your way up to that?

 

[Crooked8]

the co2/ light level thing has been mentioned on this thread several times so i just thought i would throw in my 2 cents.

i think you are right about the genetics designed for indoor high-light environments. i could be having my experience because i tend to focus on high-yielding indoor hybrids that grow fast and get big.

in an unsealed room airflow is key. not only through the room but intra-room as well.

also, it could have to do with the dynamics of the growing system that i use. the PPK maintains almost perfect root zone conditions as far as the interface of roots, water, nutrients, and medium are concerned.

this probably gets the plant through high-light stress and environmental stress conditions in better shape than some other methods.

I 100% agree genetics are a huge factor in their tolerance. Ime ive had plants get pissed and then others are thriving right next to them.