Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Daaaang, that's a great explanation of the little corner we're in here. 
Thank You!
Thank You!
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Lebanese
- Thread starter dubi
- Start date
Looks like we were both almost right...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Taxono...p=genome_blast&lin=f&keep=1&srchmode=1&unlock
Indica and sativa are subspecies.
So we have Cannabis sativa sativa and Cannabis sativa indica, Cannabis sativa being the species.
So the way I understand it:
Cannabaceae: order
Cannabis: genus
sativa: species
sativa or indica: subspecies
Genotype: combination between or inside subspecies
Phenotype: possible expressions of such combinations
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Taxono...p=genome_blast&lin=f&keep=1&srchmode=1&unlock
Indica and sativa are subspecies.
So we have Cannabis sativa sativa and Cannabis sativa indica, Cannabis sativa being the species.
So the way I understand it:
Cannabaceae: order
Cannabis: genus
sativa: species
sativa or indica: subspecies
Genotype: combination between or inside subspecies
Phenotype: possible expressions of such combinations
I think the discussion of nomenclature is relevant in a discussion of Lebanese plants. Lebs are outside the casual definitions people use. Especially because we're still using outdated and inaccurate terms from the 1970s when cannabis was underground and shunned by science.
Cannabis Indica var. Afghanica is what most people mean when they refer to Indicas. Historically Afghanistan has been split between the Central Asian parts and the Pashtun areas culturally part of the Hindu subcontinent. However people call any plant with wide leaves Indicas including those from Korea, Japan, China, SE Asia, and anywhere else they occur. This has nothing to do with the actual uses and cannabinoid content.
Technically Cannabis Sativa includes all cultivated varieties including Indica, seed, and hemp varieties. It's come to mean something different, tropical narrow leaf drug varieties.
Technically Leb plants are Cannabis Sativa like all cultivated varieties. Most have narrow leaves but some tend towards wider leaves. This, their short stature, and their use as hashplants has led to many people considering them Indicas.
I've tried switching to NLD (narrow leaf drug) and WLD (wide leaf drug) as more accurate terms but always revert to sativa and Indica after a few days because it's what everyone else uses.
Landrace also means something different then it's original definition. Technically it means a strain adapted to a region by open pollination and minimal selection by growers. However many of these strains are subject to heavy selection by the local growers and may be closer to heirloom. I believe some Lebanese strains may fall in this category.
People also refer to plants as Landraces that have been removed from their region of origin and subject to heavy selection by modern breeders. And selected for favorable traits such as faster, earlier flowering times, removal of hermaphrodite characteristics, added potency. Sometimes with a bit of local genetics added to stabilize the strain, increase yield, and make it manageable by casual growers.
Ace has done a great job of this, why many of their strains are so popular. Technically many of them aren't truly Landraces but the good ones preserve the best parts of the original genetics while making it possible to grow these strains indoors and far from their tropical or subtropical origin.
To bring it back to the Lebanese strain it seems to be very close to the original Landrace, I believe only a generation or two with minimal selection. Because Leb strains already have smaller stature and early flowering times.
Leb strains are technically NLD but I've heard of travelers introducing Indian genetics. This may account for some of the larger and WLD varieties. I'm not satisfied by the pure Lebanese, too much variation in potency and a small yield.
Of course that's my opinion I hope other people disagree and appreciate it as it is. My plan is to cross it with other Hashplant varieties keeping the quick flowering and drought tolerance while increasing yield and potency.
Cannabis Indica var. Afghanica is what most people mean when they refer to Indicas. Historically Afghanistan has been split between the Central Asian parts and the Pashtun areas culturally part of the Hindu subcontinent. However people call any plant with wide leaves Indicas including those from Korea, Japan, China, SE Asia, and anywhere else they occur. This has nothing to do with the actual uses and cannabinoid content.
Technically Cannabis Sativa includes all cultivated varieties including Indica, seed, and hemp varieties. It's come to mean something different, tropical narrow leaf drug varieties.
Technically Leb plants are Cannabis Sativa like all cultivated varieties. Most have narrow leaves but some tend towards wider leaves. This, their short stature, and their use as hashplants has led to many people considering them Indicas.
I've tried switching to NLD (narrow leaf drug) and WLD (wide leaf drug) as more accurate terms but always revert to sativa and Indica after a few days because it's what everyone else uses.
Landrace also means something different then it's original definition. Technically it means a strain adapted to a region by open pollination and minimal selection by growers. However many of these strains are subject to heavy selection by the local growers and may be closer to heirloom. I believe some Lebanese strains may fall in this category.
People also refer to plants as Landraces that have been removed from their region of origin and subject to heavy selection by modern breeders. And selected for favorable traits such as faster, earlier flowering times, removal of hermaphrodite characteristics, added potency. Sometimes with a bit of local genetics added to stabilize the strain, increase yield, and make it manageable by casual growers.
Ace has done a great job of this, why many of their strains are so popular. Technically many of them aren't truly Landraces but the good ones preserve the best parts of the original genetics while making it possible to grow these strains indoors and far from their tropical or subtropical origin.
To bring it back to the Lebanese strain it seems to be very close to the original Landrace, I believe only a generation or two with minimal selection. Because Leb strains already have smaller stature and early flowering times.
Leb strains are technically NLD but I've heard of travelers introducing Indian genetics. This may account for some of the larger and WLD varieties. I'm not satisfied by the pure Lebanese, too much variation in potency and a small yield.
Of course that's my opinion I hope other people disagree and appreciate it as it is. My plan is to cross it with other Hashplant varieties keeping the quick flowering and drought tolerance while increasing yield and potency.
Lebanese seemed weak & the only reason I see to incorporate into a breeding program is for the early flower set and the early finish.
Some folks may find the CBD component a plus in their breeding programs but I like THC myself.
Lebanese, a beauty to see even with all the grasshopper damage, noticeably bulking-up as each day passes, tons of white hairs, hope this time picture has better detail:
Really low feeder and drinker, stout plant. Scents is more mango and less citrus as buds mature, really low odor, have to sniff directly on her.
Really low feeder and drinker, stout plant. Scents is more mango and less citrus as buds mature, really low odor, have to sniff directly on her.
As I understand it, there are individuals within the various Lebanese lines that express varying ratios of CBD:THC. If one were inclined to do some work with a decent sized population, higher THC plants could be selected and selfed in pursuit of pure THC offspring to use for further breeding. Done indoors with a very short veg time, it might only take a year or two to find these individuals
If I had more time, space, and resources, I'd already be pursuing this, but one can only work with what one has.
On the other hand, I have some Baglung Nepali that started flowering just a few days later than the Leb27 I have going in my late season mini project this year, so there may be other options for those interested in early THC only varieties. In this case, the CBD could still be attractive to the med folks or rec users with low tolerance.
Its the terpene profile that Im most interested in. I can always cross it to a high THC plant like my OGMango haze.
One of my Lebs is in bud now, but no scent just yet.
If this Leb is anything the Red Lebanese I grew in the 70s and 80s, you guys are really in for a taste treat. It had some of the very best flavor I have ever smoked, and Ive been smoking since the 60s
The fruit like flavor was indescribable. Like a magic flavor. multi dimentional, sweet, thick, fruity, citrus, and some other make believe fruits that you wish existed. Heavenly. Screw the THC. Deal with that later
One of my Lebs is in bud now, but no scent just yet.
If this Leb is anything the Red Lebanese I grew in the 70s and 80s, you guys are really in for a taste treat. It had some of the very best flavor I have ever smoked, and Ive been smoking since the 60s
The fruit like flavor was indescribable. Like a magic flavor. multi dimentional, sweet, thick, fruity, citrus, and some other make believe fruits that you wish existed. Heavenly. Screw the THC. Deal with that later
OregonBorn
Active member
I have some Leb that is kick-ass. One hit and I am plastered. That was one plant out of 5 though. The others were milder. The early bloom here is great in the PNW, along with the fact that they are milder, they make good breeders. If you like higher CBD, which is what makes them milder. CBD is highly variable though, and likely my kick ass plant is simply low in CBD.
These are variable plants, grown in large fields in Lebanon and open pollinated for at least a century. If that is not a landrace, I do not know what is. As for defining it as sativa or indica, I think that is folly. Botanical species and sub species classification with weed has been all crap IMO. Thin and fat leaves is only one pheno expression. Also these do not grow short in my experience. We had them over 10 feet tall last year. Field grown they are short, but pampered? Stand back! The terpenes on these is floral/fruity and light as well. No myrcene in these. They do not have an overpowering smell like your typical weed plants.
I smoke this bud a lot. I have 20 other strains that I can hit, and I reach for this stuff most of the time.
Bekaa Valley Lebanese hashplant YES!
It is great to see that folks around are giving some place for such gem. Thank you dubi for your efforts and making these available.
I won't say that Lebanese is a "one hit wonder" plant, but I can guarantee it's has no lack of potency or vigour.
Here you are some pictures (back in the day) the original mother of the P1.
Some hybrids to test....
Lebanon x DC
Kinda Oldschool Hashplant DC/Lebanon x X-18/Uzbeki (CBG)
It is great to see that folks around are giving some place for such gem. Thank you dubi for your efforts and making these available.
I won't say that Lebanese is a "one hit wonder" plant, but I can guarantee it's has no lack of potency or vigour.
Here you are some pictures (back in the day) the original mother of the P1.
Some hybrids to test....
Lebanon x DC
Kinda Oldschool Hashplant DC/Lebanon x X-18/Uzbeki (CBG)
Shooters
Active member
I just got three cuttings from three different Lebanese that my sister-in-law bought through Ace. I was going to pass until I read Dr Pupurs' post and now I'm glad I did cause they are starving for more light and more food. Plants including early buds are yellowing badly and in real need of help. So I took a cutting of each that I'll root and re-veg.
She also has some Black Lime Reserve and In The Pines that I gave her that is also yellowing badly. One of the BLR's has such an awesome LIME smell that pops so loud in your nose that I might just head back over and get a cutting of that too.
She also has some Black Lime Reserve and In The Pines that I gave her that is also yellowing badly. One of the BLR's has such an awesome LIME smell that pops so loud in your nose that I might just head back over and get a cutting of that too.
I just happen to have a vial of Black Lime Reserve pollen in the fridge. I forgot about it. Guess Ill make some Leb lime reserve seeds
8-21 update
8-21 update
Hey all, I've been very busy. I did take two days off to go to Blues Fest this past weekend. It was a BLAST!!!
Here is a few pictures of my girls.
Lebanese x Erdpurt
Lebanese #2
Lebanese #1
Lebanese #1 with whole cola. It's into the roof, but I'm not going to do anything with her yet. No condensation to worry about. They both have a sweet melon aroma (to me anyway).
I hope you all have a great week. Peace MedDakotabis
8-21 update
Hey all, I've been very busy. I did take two days off to go to Blues Fest this past weekend. It was a BLAST!!!
Here is a few pictures of my girls.
Lebanese x Erdpurt
Lebanese #2
Lebanese #1
Lebanese #1 with whole cola. It's into the roof, but I'm not going to do anything with her yet. No condensation to worry about. They both have a sweet melon aroma (to me anyway).
I hope you all have a great week. Peace MedDakotabis
Hi djimb,
I cannot speak for other lebanese lines, but this one for sure has the potential to produce different THC:CBD chemotypes. And since there's huge interest lately in rich CBD lines (i'm also interested on them, not only for commercial CBD releases, but also for personal use) i thought it would be very interesting to produce CBD rich lines of this lebanese. Most of the current rich CBD commercial strains come nowadays from Cannatonic, so it's a very important task to widen up the rich CBD genepool with other lines not related to Cannatonic, and i think the CBD research we have done at ACE with different lines like this lebanese or ErdPurt are being very fruitful in this sense.
As Dr Purpur correctly pointed out, it's very easy to increase THC content and lower down CBD by crossing a strain with an almost pure THC chemotype (most commercial marijuana strains belong to this chemotype) with another strain with mixed THC:CBD.
In fact, we have found lately a pure THC lebanese female from this lebanese line (which anecdotally has been pollinated with Hokkaido Japan males).
As you said, by growing enough wide populations of this lebanese and by bring samples of the different females to the lab for cannabinoid analysis you can drive its breeding for pure THC chemotypes. Although this is not our priority right now, as most of our strains have an almost pure THC chemotype, and indeed very rich in THC
Hi Ras
Thanks for chime in bro, your experience with the pure lebanese P1s of this line and their hybrids is unmatchable. I still remember fondly when 10 years ago (or more!) we met and discuss about the potential of this lebanese and its hybrids although then we didn't know much about its different chemotypes back then.
Your lebanese hybrids pics are sooo refreshing, i think we tried some of them together, but can't remember much details at this point (foggy memories of mine!
). The Lebanese x Deep Chunk looks especially nice, there was a zamal x lebanese hybrid too, right ?
Without your work and dedication to find non hermie parental plants in the P1 stage to reproduce the strain we surely won't be enjoying this lebanese right now, i have no words to thank you for that, and hope the community will also appreciate it.
Hope you are proud of it, and of the work we have done in the P2-P3 stage to make this release happen, so other growers around the world can experience this old school genetics.
A big hug, hope to meet you soon when you come to visit your family!
Hi repuk and Dr Purpur,
Despite this lebanese release contains seeds from 4 different females and at least from 8 different males, it's amazing how similar look the flowers of the 2 lebaneses you have posted If i didn't know that you are in different parts of the world i would think you are growing the same clone! A true sign of the true-breeding status of this line! Some people doubted when i classified this lebanese line as a pure sativa, but hope you now understand why.
Dr Purpur, glad you had the chance to try excellent lebanese in the 70s and 80s, not sure how this line would compare with the ones you grew back then, but some females of this lebanese line have truely nice fruity mango and citric aromas.
It has rained a lot since then, and today's marijuana strains have much more refined terpenes, but theres no doubt this lebanese has the potential to produce very fruity and pleasant hybrids regarding terpenes too.
Despite this lebanese release contains seeds from 4 different females and at least from 8 different males, it's amazing how similar look the flowers of the 2 lebaneses you have posted
If i didn't know that you are in different parts of the world i would think you are growing the same clone! A true sign of the true-breeding status of this line! Some people doubted when i classified this lebanese line as a pure sativa, but hope you now understand why.Dr Purpur, glad you had the chance to try excellent lebanese in the 70s and 80s, not sure how this line would compare with the ones you grew back then, but some females of this lebanese line have truely nice fruity mango and citric aromas.
It has rained a lot since then, and today's marijuana strains have much more refined terpenes, but theres no doubt this lebanese has the potential to produce very fruity and pleasant hybrids regarding terpenes too.
Wow farmerlion!
I'm enjoying A LOT following the development of your 2 pure lebanese.
Best lebanese from this line we have seen so far! You must be really proud of the quality of the flowers you are getting this season in the greenhouse
And i was expecting the Lebanese x ErdPurt would flower faster than the pure lebanese but it is happening quite the opposite hehehhe
Thanks a lot for the updates!
Dubi, yes my friend I'm very happy with these genetics. Honestly I'm excited for you and Ace.
Many new lines are racing for a cookies or a glue cross just to cash in on name recognition.
Ace is bringing Quality breeding that far surpasses hype of mediocrity. Nostalgic legends of pure beauty are available. Your Auto's surpass expectations.
I only regret not having more Lebanese and Auto's in my greenhouse this season. Thanks for all your work my friend. Peace
Many new lines are racing for a cookies or a glue cross just to cash in on name recognition.
Ace is bringing Quality breeding that far surpasses hype of mediocrity. Nostalgic legends of pure beauty are available. Your Auto's surpass expectations.
I only regret not having more Lebanese and Auto's in my greenhouse this season. Thanks for all your work my friend. Peace
