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Las Vegas
- Thread starter Hermanthegerman
- Start date
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A LAS VEGAS shooting witness was reportedly warned that everyone at the Route 91 music festival was “going to die” 45 minutes before the attack near the Mandalay Bay hotel.
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This very strange, coincidence maybe, but I think not.
But this is the land of the free so you decide for yourself.
[YOUTUBEIF]Z05s8cLDwts[/YOUTUBEIF]
This very strange, coincidence maybe, but I think not.
But this is the land of the free so you decide for yourself.
I don't think that it is constructive to have a debate over gun ownership in this thread, although I agree that it is a very topical subject and should be addressed one way or another. Passions seem to fly over the subject, and members will fall out with each other over it leading to flaming/hate speech etc, and we don't really want or need that here.
I have lived in the USA in the past, although I am a native Englishman and can see things from both sides of the pond, and both sides of the debate having been a gun owner in the past, but weaponless now (unless you consider a rusty can opener a valid weapon lol).
The whole 'guns good/guns bad' thing is a huge conundrum that will most probably end (if it ever does) VERY BADLY, most probably in another American civil war methinks, whether they try to control it, or just let it be.
As we have seen in Vegas and many other frequent mass shootings in the USA and indeed elsewhere, this problem is not just going to go away anytime soon, and seems to be accelerating making society more dangerous day-by-day, making people almost complacent to what is happening.
It is, and continues to be a very sorry state of affairs, when innocent people trying to enjoy themselves at a music festival become nothing more than cannon-fodder.
I have lived in the USA in the past, although I am a native Englishman and can see things from both sides of the pond, and both sides of the debate having been a gun owner in the past, but weaponless now (unless you consider a rusty can opener a valid weapon lol).
The whole 'guns good/guns bad' thing is a huge conundrum that will most probably end (if it ever does) VERY BADLY, most probably in another American civil war methinks, whether they try to control it, or just let it be.
As we have seen in Vegas and many other frequent mass shootings in the USA and indeed elsewhere, this problem is not just going to go away anytime soon, and seems to be accelerating making society more dangerous day-by-day, making people almost complacent to what is happening.
It is, and continues to be a very sorry state of affairs, when innocent people trying to enjoy themselves at a music festival become nothing more than cannon-fodder.
Seems the Govt. is on a mission to remove rifles from their citizens, why because a revolution (over throw the Govt.) can not be suscessfull with only hand guns.
I always wonder what that person was thinking when I hear about people bringing rifles into a building(except in a case like this), that makes no sence at all.
A hand gun is more functional in close quarter situations don't ya think?
They are easier to carry and hide but will kill just as many people in a building as a rifle.
When coming around a corner a rifle or shotgun is easily grabbed and pointed upward.
It is not that easy to wrestle away a hand gun you may get shot.
Just try and shoot someone with a full length rifle or shotgun when they have you in a bear hug, but that act is very easy for someone with a hand gun.
I can unfortunatly tell you from a first hand experience that a full length shotgun is not the best choice in a house.
I was at a party where a man came into the house with a shotgun to rob the place and the gun was taken from him as he came around a corner and he was stabbed in the spleen.
If he would have used a hand gun he probably would have gotten away with it.
M
moose eater
Whether in warfare, 'police actions,' or less organized/less formal mayhem such as Sandy Hook or Las Vegas, it's nearly -always- been the average civilian who pays most dearly. We've even created newer euphemisms to cover our murder; 'collateral damage.' Sounds like a clean and innocent term/phrase, eh?
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I previously, decades ago, collected class III weapons (back when they were relatively inexpensive still). I don't know if it's still the case, but back when I owned select-fire weaponry, the ONLY felony/crime of violence on record, committed with a -registered- class III weapon, was some off-duty cop who killed his spouse. Go figure....
As Crusader Rabbit pointed out without being too obvious, your average bullet, (contrary to creations in the movies by Hollywood special effects crews), doesn't typically cause combustion when passing through a flammable liquid. We've fired full auto into aluminum 1-liter bottles of petroleum ether.. and.... nothing but spent ammunition. Incendiary rounds and tracers are another matter.
I think the violence in America has as much to do with our collective lack of respect for life in general (despite what many of our law-makers and good citizens say) as it has to do with guns. Our foreign policy often makes that implicitly clear, in spades. Add that to the half-truth myths of the wild west, where tempers were supposedly expressed, and differences resolved, through a Colt.
The fellow in Vegas is just one more person who, for what ever reason, reached some point in maladaptation where at he seems to have thought that taking out a bunch of people would make some sort of statement. I wish they'd ALL stop choosing cold targets, whether Vegas, or Doctors Without Borders hospitals in Afghanistan. If they have a beef, take it to the source. Shooting unarmed civilians is cowardly.
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i might think a moment about Harry Reid and the embarrassment the 'cowboy' mentality served up for him while he attempted to offer the chinese a large chunk of Clark county land for that solar farm.
deep-state went apesh*t after Bundy et al and the FBI ended up murdering
co-conspirator Lavoy Finicum over their constitutional rights/beliefs.
what a perfect way to punish the very type/kind of people who stood in defense of Bundy et al. while advancing a narrative that guns are bad.
guns are not bad.
people are bad.
take the guns, and the people remain.
pretty simple math.
retribution to further a cause.
deep-state went apesh*t after Bundy et al and the FBI ended up murdering
co-conspirator Lavoy Finicum over their constitutional rights/beliefs.
what a perfect way to punish the very type/kind of people who stood in defense of Bundy et al. while advancing a narrative that guns are bad.
guns are not bad.
people are bad.
take the guns, and the people remain.
pretty simple math.
retribution to further a cause.
I have the laziest gun in the world.
I placed it aimed at the door and went off to work, my house got robbed and that lazy thing never shot anyone.
Guns don't kill people do, people do.
If we could only put a ban on Jackasses.
I placed it aimed at the door and went off to work, my house got robbed and that lazy thing never shot anyone.
Guns don't kill people do, people do.
If we could only put a ban on Jackasses.
Green Squall
Well-known member
I've never even heard about a bump stock until this incident. Honestly, as a strong believer in 2nd Amendment, I don't even know where I stand on the issue. All I know is that all this talk about banning them is making people go out in droves and buy them before they're no longer available. This is the same reason why everyone called Obama the "best gun salesman to ever live."
udontknowme
Member
Guns make it a lot easier to kill lots of people 
seriously fucked up country
seriously fucked up country
M
moose eater
Guns make it a lot easier to kill lots of people
True, they do. So do explosives (some of which are fairly easily made), motor vehicles (more recently in France), and, in the extreme cases of rural parts of Africa and S.E. Asia, machetes have been effectively used to kill hundreds at a time.
All of those mechanisms are capable of being used toward killing in wholesale numbers.
Teaching the value of life in general, especially -someone else's-, is, in my opinion, the fastest way to stop some of this.
I'm not immune to such rage, nor is anyone else I know, given proper circumstances. Knowing and acknowledging our own 'dark side' is the first step to containing it; Jungianism. Socrates commandment/advice; "Know thyself."
There will always be those with short fuses and twitching trigger fingers, whether formally employed in killing games, or random nut-jobs. but the agreements or decisions, whether by groups or individuals, that 'this life' or 'that life' is worth less or more, is at the root of these things, imo.
When I read statements like this I understand why the founding fathers were willing to go to war with the greatest Empire of the time. Guns are also a tool of the God given right of self defense. The constitution limits the government. Government is the deadliest institution that has ever existed. This is why people go through hell to get here. With all due respect Europeans have been subjects, not citizens. A slave to the crown, or now bureaucrats.
Sometimes I dream of living in a Utopian society, where humanity has managed to evolve past this very feudal stage which we live in right now. Where people are not divided by governments/race/religion/wealth/intelligence and education......and where we all get along and progress towards a healthy and positive future....
.....and then I wake up, and have to deal with the stark reality of the here and now, where just getting on a bus or a subway/tube train could get me blown to smithereens.
.....and then I wake up, and have to deal with the stark reality of the here and now, where just getting on a bus or a subway/tube train could get me blown to smithereens.
really? that is some kinda blanket statement gmt.
It's sorta different up here in the country, in this county the nearest police dept (to my home) is the county sheriff, exactly 39 (63km) miles.
I've had 3 occasions put pull my pistol or shotgun on somebody on my property (& once away from home) because I was in fear for my life or well being. I neither wanted to kill any of them, nor did I, however I'm almost certain that I taught them all a cheap/free lesson in life.
One was a stranger that I've never seen again (go figure) while the other two were very well known to me. All three got exactly what they were asking for, fair warning that my household is not one to be trifled with.
1: The stranger appears @ my door asking if this was the site of the 'Yard Sale' all the while he's trying to look inside my home past the door. he's adorned in gang & prison tattoos, he reaches for the doorknob & starts to open the door w/o my permission & so I stick my .357 in his face, he left in a hurry. I feared for my life.
Because this was a stranger I was worried for my neighbors, I memorized his plate# and called the sheriff's office, I don't like interactions w/leo but felt that I had to make an exception. I called and spoke to the dispatcher, told her the entire story and she said a deputy would be calling, he never did, no follow up whatsoever (glad for that really) which only cements the idea of taking care of yourself, hell, the sheriff's office never even questioned my use of my gun, you damn well better have one handy.
2: Neighbor across the road had been spreading rumors about my place being a meth lab to anyone who'd listen. But with me only hearing 2nd/3rd hand of Billy spreading those rumors I did like a smart NY'er would, I sat on that info for over 2 years before I heard it from his mouth myself.
Screw meth, and all its users is my philosophy. He was in my driveway bitching about something different (my burnouts!) when suddenly he said "and you have to admit your place looks like a meth lab!" (since my back injury in '04 my place often has an unkempt look to it), so I excused myself for a moment and I grabbed the shotgun I keep stashed by my front door. Jacking a shell into the chamber I screamed "WTF DO YOU KNOW ABOUT METH LABS YOU MF CS POS!!!???" In this case I feared for my well being in the community as this jackoff owns a local business across the road from me. If he called the cops (he was screaming for his wife to do so as he ran from my driveway) they never showed up or even called my place, a man has RIGHTS up here.
And so funny thing was about 18 months later Billy's best friend & son got busted for meth, when I bumped into him @ the gas station I rubbed that fact in HARD; to which he replied "I thought we settled that in your driveway long ago." I informed that my memory was long in those regards. And so apparently a shotgun wielding neighbor was what he needed to shut his f'ing mouth. It worked, nobody got killed & we're cordial to one another now. I would have had to actually beaten him badly with a baseball bat to get the same effect as my peaceful resolution above.
3: About a year ago a local druggie tweaker knocked on my door hoping to score some pain pills, opiates that I hadn't taken (and dumped) 2 years prior, how this POS even knew or heard I took pain pills is beyond my comprehension.
I wasn't gonna hear even a seconds worth of his crap and so I kicked the door open & leveled the 12 gauge @ his head and in a maniacally loud and aggressive manner I told him that this gun was for people just like him; I kept it pointed @ him & his 3 friends in the car, I only wished I had a microphone/recorder on the barrel of that gun, the screams of fear/terror were f'ing priceless.
Sheriff response time to my home when I THOUGHT I needed them has been 30-45 minutes, they (deputies) know this and expect that you know how to take care of yourself. An old lady might defend herself w/a barking dog & locked up home, but even the 80-90 yr old widows that I know up here keep shotguns nearby.
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Now incident #2 might seem a bit over the top but you should know this. I left NY & landed in MN in '88, I was on the run from my drug habit, freebase/crack cocaine, never had a meth habit just coke. I suffered badly for 8.5 years on coke and get to celebrate 30 years of sobriety from that crap in next August. I'm proud of that fact & I never hide that story when asked how I wound up here, there was no MF'ing way I was going to allow that POS neighbor to piss on my parade! I never thought I'd hear him say that shit to my face but it was a gift from God when he did, Billy needed me to put that crap to bed & I did.
Gypsy, if you feel this post needs to go that's fine, I'm not a nut or gun nut. We enjoy different freedoms in our own countries and I only wanted to demonstrate how my needs & use of firearms has met with acceptance by my local sheriff's dept and/or neighbors who now understand that aside from property lines that there may be other borders quite dangerous to cross.
One last story: 1990 & I'm working @ a bar up here, no pistols allowed, even by perfectly sober owners or bartenders. I close up by myself & I drive the cash to my boss's house @ 2am nightly, you bet your butt that I usually have my .44 tucked into my jeans (back).
So one night a logger is being a fool so I cut him off, offer him some food & coffee but he just sits & stews. Then he starts threatening me so I throw him out, he's twice my size but amazingly he just lets me guide him gently out the door, and he stays out. The rest of the night goes quietly, until I'm ready to leave.
I open the door to my jeep wrangler & toss the money bag in when suddenly John comes up from behind cornering me stuck standing there, he's towering over me and yelling in a most menacing way, I can smell the fresh whiskey on his breath, of all nights NOT to have my gun.
So I reach behind my back as if I did, he continued his shouting & finger in my face routine for well over a half hour (boss was mad I was late) but never made a move out of fear I'd shoot him.
When I applied for my carry permit again a few years later I told the sheriff the story, including the fact that I brought my gun into the bar I had worked at, he hated the no gun for owners/bartenders law himself and ignored it where he could. Anyways I had him in stitches over the story of my nongun defense that night, he laughed & said that he loves issuing permits so the fools out there don't know who is or isn't carrying. After a quick verbal quiz of self defense uses of a pistol (I aced it) he signed my permit.
2nd & then 4th Amendments to our Constitution GMT, absolute rights.......
thank you
G `day PF
Where does that leave the atheists ? LOL .
False flag guys . Dude shoots for an hour at 25 000 people hits 1.5 % of them . He didn`t want to kill any more ...
Just heighten the drama . So the narrative can be sold to the masses .
Ever since the Manhattan project the US Gov has been scheming schemes and not telling its people . Built a nuclear bomb that the vice president [Trueman ] didn`t even know about . Anything is possible in those circumstances .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
Attention spans tend to be short here, and the time it takes the site to log me out gets shorter every visit. So I try to keep my posts as short as I can, and as on point as I can to mitigate both.
That being said, when some claim god gave Americans the right to own guns and others claim they need them to make robbing people safer, I think blanket statements are best. If I were to go into a detailed response on my views here, not only wouldn't anyone spend the time to read it, but the admin would ban me and americans would want to shoot me.
That being said, when some claim god gave Americans the right to own guns and others claim they need them to make robbing people safer, I think blanket statements are best. If I were to go into a detailed response on my views here, not only wouldn't anyone spend the time to read it, but the admin would ban me and americans would want to shoot me.
Thanks for sharing that Stoner4Life, I once had a friend called Roy that lived outside of Rising Star Texas who lived a similar existence....He was a 'Good Old Boy' who taught me to shoot outback of his shack/house back in the late 70's...
It really was the wild west experience for me, and I learned to understand how people had to keep their security with firearms, and had so done for hundreds of years.
It really was the wild west experience for me, and I learned to understand how people had to keep their security with firearms, and had so done for hundreds of years.
M
moose eater
I think Bruce Cockburn of Ontario Canada summed it up in 1973, on the 'Night Visions' Lp (which my now-deceased sister gave me a copy of in 33-1/3 rpm vinyl Lp format in 1973, which I still have.
'The Blues Got the World by the Balls'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjuriwfPiI
'The Blues Got the World by the Balls'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjuriwfPiI
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