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Kozmo's World
- Thread starter Kozmo
- Start date
BigBozat
Member
OK... so, how did you adjust the recipe from the you originally did last fall/winter? Memory fails me (compounded by the DQ). I'm assuming the compost w/ the data is the same (Purp Cow)?
I like the rice hulls, but I can't find them regularly nearby, so don't tend to use.
If the intended use is for long-term sustaining a mother in veg for making clones, then I'd probably want to further supplement with biochar and other things that only break down/release slowly.
RockDustLocal.com has a "RichMix" biochar product that's mineralized w/ basalt and comes inoculated w/ 4 species of mycos.
They'll also do custom blends w/ carbonatite, leonardite, lignite/humate ore, diatomaceous earth, granite flour, glacial or volcanic rock dust, humic and/or fulvic powders, crab/lobster/shrimp meals, kelp meal, montmorillonite/calcium bentonite/zeolite, N-fixing and P-solubilizing (sp?) microbes/rhizobacteria, mycorrhizal fungi, pumice, sphagnum peat, wollastonite, and a wide range of other regional rock dusts/powders/flours/fines.
Maybe swap out half the greensand or more for some other minerals?
1.5 lbs just happens to be the size of the bag I get mine in, and I just dump the whole thing into roughly 6 cu ft of soil mix. Not real scientific... lmao
The Neem & Karanja from your/TM's recipe = Good!
'Nuff said.
Also GOOD is the Oyster shell flour from the other mix. That's a better substitute for dol lime.
I LOVE the insect frass idea... and will now adopt it for myself.
With the chitosan from crab/crustacean shell providing a longer-term source, and the frass providing immediately-available chitin, seems like a no-brainer to me... Nice!
For Gypsum application rate... maybe 1/2 cup per cu ft (max 1 c/cu ft)?
I'm a little confused... at one point you talk about soil for sustaining a mother in veg, and later about using up N to trigger flowering for sativa dom? Not sure what you're building a soil for... both?
Anyhoo... loving your show, Koz. Keep the posts comin...
You're going to love this mix dude, trust me! I've never grown healthier plants in my life.
Is that a second mix below there that you're recycling? Just making sure you're not adding it to the mix I use
I have TM's mix currently cooking on week 8. Not adding it to yours. Two different mixes altogether. Bo's mix is a super soil mix designed to take a Sativa all the way through flower. Yes Bo, I would like to come up with a mother mix all togetherly new. Spot on about the Oyster shell by the way. Maybe I'll swap out the greensand for basalt? I am also trying to figure out how to inoculate my raw Biochar. I've read a few different ways. That link will Def. help. Yes Bo, good assumption on the PC.
TM, I had problems with the veg. mix I used. I'll have to get you some pics. It was the one from your first thread. I'll come back with it and the pics later.
TM, I had problems with the veg. mix I used. I'll have to get you some pics. It was the one from your first thread. I'll come back with it and the pics later.
Former Guest
Active member
Why don't you use the coots mix for every stage of growth? The plant will only eat what it wants. N is usually fairly immediate depending on source. I use my mixes for every stage. I plant seeds in straight FFOf which everyone thinks will burn but they love it.
Where is your lime? You could use a 50/50 oyster/gypsum or 2:1 oyster/ gypsum. I'd pick 2:1
Where is your lime? You could use a 50/50 oyster/gypsum or 2:1 oyster/ gypsum. I'd pick 2:1
Former Guest
Active member
Are you not using BAS mineral mix? It's 1:1:1:1 glacial basalt oyster gypsum. Using a proven recipe will get you the most success.
BigBozat
Member
Got it.. and I thought so, just wanted to be sure I don't misunderstand...
FWIW, I like your/TM's soil mix... personally, I don't really see them as being all that different/opposed... many of the same components, ratios of components aren't all that far apart... mine might be a tad on the hotter side as my dry fert components were applied a little more heavy-handed, but all in all I don't see them as all that different...
I wouldn't *entirely* replace the greensand w/ more basalt alone (isn't it already cited in your tweaks to the original?)... but, I would consider swapping a good portion of the g'sand for a variety of mineral sources (there's that damn diversity bug again)...
Simplest way to inoculate biochar is to simply make an AACT (w/ lots o' EWC & molasses, along with whatever else you put in your compost tea) and pour it into the dry biochar @ a 2:1 ~ 2.5:1 ratio (2 ~ 2.5 gals of char -to- 1 gal of tea; exactness isn't critical here)...
Hell, throw in a packet of myco fungi (I'm assuming you've picked up some from somewhere?)...
And add a packet of the Azos for good measure [which I'm pretty sure you got from the Xtreme Gardening folks], which has bene bacteria/microbes (N-fixers & P-solubilizers)...
Then let it set for a while b4 mixing into the rest of your soil components, to give it time to grow some micro herd... but don't wait longer than a day or two, lest risking some of the micro-horde you're trying grow...
BigBozat
Member
I'm still thinking about what changes to make specifically for permanently sustaining a mother sativa in veg... need to do some more thinking/research... hmmmmmmmmmmm...
Might be easier to react to a 'straw man' example that you toss up with your reasoning, and just see where we go from there?
Might be easier to react to a 'straw man' example that you toss up with your reasoning, and just see where we go from there?
See how hard it is to listen to 50 different opinions about what is basically the same mix...
Pick one. Run it. See if you like it. Pick another. Run it. See if you like it.
No point in all the indecision. Don't take a piece of this and a piece of that thinking you are going to end up with the best of both worlds. You'll never figure out what went wrong or what actually works for you if you keep bouncing all over the place.
You've got plenty of time to try various things out. But - you can't do it ALL at once in the hopes of making round two this epic state of perfection...finding what works for you takes time and takes experience. Narrow your focus a bit. Zone in. Be specific.
All you are doing is making it 100x harder than it has to be at this point...
Mix. Compost. Plant. Water. Harvest. It should be that simple.
dank.Frank
Pick one. Run it. See if you like it. Pick another. Run it. See if you like it.
No point in all the indecision. Don't take a piece of this and a piece of that thinking you are going to end up with the best of both worlds. You'll never figure out what went wrong or what actually works for you if you keep bouncing all over the place.
You've got plenty of time to try various things out. But - you can't do it ALL at once in the hopes of making round two this epic state of perfection...finding what works for you takes time and takes experience. Narrow your focus a bit. Zone in. Be specific.
All you are doing is making it 100x harder than it has to be at this point...
Mix. Compost. Plant. Water. Harvest. It should be that simple.
dank.Frank
I am TM lol
I know what you meant though, and nice! Week 8 - that stuff is more than ready to be used my friend. That is a myth though - about super soil being able to carry plants longer than a less intense mix. Bo's mix doesn't sound as insane as TGA's slaughter house mix, but the mix I use (Clackamas Coots' mix) carried my Silver Lotus sativas into week 12 no problem. Senescence gradually set in like it usually does for my 8 week strains, and no stress or depletion of food ever came about. The humus in the soil stores nutrients since it has a high cation exchange capacity, that's the key to a good mix. 1/3 high quality humus.
The say, "Once you get your humus down, the rest is Easy Street"
Week 9
Week 11 - Still no "starving" by the plant
Day 84, week 12 just before harvest
It's a total fallacy that you need to mix in more food to mixes for longer flowering sativas, if the soil is balanced the plant will reach peak health and store reserves like food, fats, and water for times of need like late flowering. It'll naturally engage in senescence (the aging of plants) and will fade without having to flush, or anything ridiculous like that. Plants do this in nature, so why not mimic that natural process? The excess rain in the fall isn't what causes those trees to fade into those beautiful red/orange/yellow hues, it's simply nature running it's course before winter hits. This logic should be carried over into our gardens.
To charge bio char, brew up a balanced AACT and soak the char in it afterwards. I bought the kind that's pre-charged, so I can't say how long the soak should be so you may have to look into that part.
Which mix did you use for veg? If it was the clone/seedling mix, I can understand how that could have happened if you used it for plants any older than a month or so. This is the point where I'll transplant from beer cups into their final home in a big pot...
From my experience, the plant will eat what it needs no matter it's genetic background. The main factor is the plant's ability to uptake and store food in that said mix, and the only thing that would prevent that is an imbalance (like high amounts of N typically found in SS mixes) and/or a lack of quality humus (1/3 of the mix's volume is ideal). This makes the plant lazier in the nutrient intake process, and in a way "speeds" up the "meal".
You can compare this to the Tortoise and the Hare, a plant in the CC mix (or any balanced mix for that matter) is like the Tortoise; it allows the plant to slowly eat the food on it's plate at the very rate it requires to grow to it's full potential. When it's done, it'll pack that shit up in a to-go box and store it in the fridge for later when it gets hungry (late flowering).
A hot Super Soil mix will act like the Hare; it will force the plant to eat rapidly until the food is completely gone. It'll exhaust it's resources and will take a "nap" 3/4 of the way through, and will fall short of the finish line as it show signs of N deficiency or other elements even. IMO balance is the key to long term plant and soil health, not excess additives.
BigBozat
Member
:dF is on the money. nice cut to the chase... I
to you, sir.Althoooo... there's nothing saying you can't make diff initial mixes for different purposes.
For each purpose, just control the variables/tweaks to one thing at a time, else you'll never really be able to clearly identify the effect of tweaks (was it this component or that? was it an interaction? which ones? yadda, yadda, yadda)
And don't hope/expect to reach soil nirvana - for any particular purpose - in two gos at it (or even three, five, etc.)
BigBozat
Member
So, if I understand this right:
The difference between the two mixes that everyone seems to be having so much agidda about essentially boils down to:
- A 1:1:1 ratio of Peat:Rice Hulls:Compost -versus- a 1:1:1.333:1.5 ratio of Peat:Rice Hullserlite+Vermiculite:Compost+EWC
(i.e., 33% vs. 31% 'humus'/compost)
- Oyster shell flour -versus- dol lime
- The addition of approx. (slightly more) than 1 cup per cu ft of greensand+AZOMITE (combined, not each) for one mix
- The addition of a little over 2 cups of Fish Bone Meal and [what was supposed to be] 4 ~ 6 cups of Alfalfa Meal (granulized)... for nearly 5 cu ft of soil mix?
Is this really what folks are getting all worked up about?
Doesn't this strike anyone else as a distinction without much of a real difference?
[Other than dF, I mean... he already said as much]
The difference between the two mixes that everyone seems to be having so much agidda about essentially boils down to:
- A 1:1:1 ratio of Peat:Rice Hulls:Compost -versus- a 1:1:1.333:1.5 ratio of Peat:Rice Hulls
erlite+Vermiculite:Compost+EWC (i.e., 33% vs. 31% 'humus'/compost)
- Oyster shell flour -versus- dol lime
- The addition of approx. (slightly more) than 1 cup per cu ft of greensand+AZOMITE (combined, not each) for one mix
- The addition of a little over 2 cups of Fish Bone Meal and [what was supposed to be] 4 ~ 6 cups of Alfalfa Meal (granulized)... for nearly 5 cu ft of soil mix?
Is this really what folks are getting all worked up about?
Doesn't this strike anyone else as a distinction without much of a real difference?
[Other than dF, I mean... he already said as much]
I'm not saying there is no difference - I'm saying don't get more going on than you can make sense of at a single time...
You were hesitant to start certain seeds for fear of messing them up - and then you start making things overly complicated with the dirt...
Keep it simple. Follow the recipes EXACTLY as they are written. ZERO adjustments. Zero changes. They are shared "as is" for a reason.
It's hard to tell what's going on with new genetics, new soil mix..new...new...new. You'll have no constant in your garden from which to make a comparison to know whether or not you've made any progress or which particular changes were actually of benefit.
Like Bo said above...make your changes one at a time - gradually...that way you can isolate the specific advantages of each adjustment made.
If you were running a SINGLE pheno of ONE plant - that you ALREADY had run 5 or 6 times and knew the inside outs of...then you can run 4, 5, 20...different soil mixes all at once...because you'll already know what to expect from the plant...and you'll be able to tell what benefits / disadvantages you are causing with your adjustments...
You need a plant/soil that acts as a "control" when you are experimenting...
It really wasn't a criticism of what you have going on - honestly. It was just some food for thought.
dank.Frank
You were hesitant to start certain seeds for fear of messing them up - and then you start making things overly complicated with the dirt...
Keep it simple. Follow the recipes EXACTLY as they are written. ZERO adjustments. Zero changes. They are shared "as is" for a reason.
It's hard to tell what's going on with new genetics, new soil mix..new...new...new. You'll have no constant in your garden from which to make a comparison to know whether or not you've made any progress or which particular changes were actually of benefit.
Like Bo said above...make your changes one at a time - gradually...that way you can isolate the specific advantages of each adjustment made.
If you were running a SINGLE pheno of ONE plant - that you ALREADY had run 5 or 6 times and knew the inside outs of...then you can run 4, 5, 20...different soil mixes all at once...because you'll already know what to expect from the plant...and you'll be able to tell what benefits / disadvantages you are causing with your adjustments...
You need a plant/soil that acts as a "control" when you are experimenting...
It really wasn't a criticism of what you have going on - honestly. It was just some food for thought.
dank.Frank
I just would like to explain how this has all developed for me/us over time. I was turned on to the idea of super soil mixes or water only mixes by our much respected member DF
. I explained my desire to do a traditional SOG(4/sq.ft.). I also explained my desire for organics. During this explanation I inquired about a single cola strain that would do well in the SOG(DF informed me of the required pheno hunt) Thats when I was turned onto our G13 Haze x Biker Kush by Mr. Karma G.
This all gave me great direction and drive to make a super soil mix. Thats around the time I met the most helpful BigBo
(Much respect! Nuf said! Great Guy!). I told him about my desire to finish a sativa hybrid plant. He kindly obliged with a recipe for this noob using the info I had provided about my local compost. I was thrilled and mixed up a batch. And threw in some worms later. While it was cooking and being used up I discovered the no till method. This sparked my interest because I wasn't looking forward to recycling ALL that SOG soil(My intentions are for a 3'x6'x1' area). It was beautiful My SOG vision was coming together. Some of you may not know this but in the very begining here on IC I was trying to make a aquaponic way of growing my meds. This Organic,No till, living soil thing hit close to home and I began going back and forth With Team Mirobe. This guy is very giving and helpful as well. You can see from his thread(s) all of the people he contributed positive energy to.
This is where I am at now and am planing on filling that 18 cu/ft. void in my life with a soil mix that will provide our Karma gear with the home it deserves. I have been discovering along the way the needs and uses of our favorite plant and the soil it lives in mostly using the BigBo's original mix. Now that has all been used up. With a cubic foot of TM's BAS mix well cooked on the horizon and the recognition that the two mixes are not that much different I have been trying to focus on a mix that will be used in the future indoor, raised bed, SOG.
Oh, lets not forget LLB. I've spent many nights going back and forth private messaging the night away. She has been most helpful. Lady Lucky Bean, I've known you before you were LLB and you've been mushing(in the spirit of the beloved iditarod) that trail ahead of me in our growing experiences showing me the way through the dark. Thank you.
All to go into a 72"W x 36"D x 14"H Geopot
Some of these ratios here are what they are because thats the size I get when I order it. This does fit into the ratios BAS has on there web sight for a complete premium soil mix. I'm also aware of the flexibility of the mix.
"15% Vermicompost
15% Compost
30 - 40% Sphagnum Peat Moss or Homemade Leafmold
20 - 30% Small Lava Rock, Perlite, Buckwheat hulls, rice hulls etc. something for aeration"
This is what I would like to see in my soil mix:
Rice Hulls: 1 cu/ft (I have on hand)
Buckwheat Hulls: .5 cu/ft (Amazon $30)
Pumice: 2 cu/ft (Amazon $120)
Black lava rock: 2 cu/ft (BuildASoil $90)
Sphagnum Peat: 6.5 (I have on hand)
Compost: 3.5 (I have on hand)
EWC: 3 (BAS has this amount for $170) Not a bad price considering the local guy is charging me $10 and he doesn't have that much to give.
This is quoted from the Build-A-Flower Top dress Kit on the BAS web sight "The Build-A-Flower Top Dress kit is a well rounded and complete approach to flowering. With one top dress you effectively add all the nutrients and micro-nutrients required for a healthy soil. The Compost and Worm castings act as a delivery system for the nutrients in the Comfrey and Kelp. We add a very small amount of Neem Cake to assist with pest control. Fish bone is an excellent source of organic phosphorous and calcium.
That all being said, why not just add it from the begging? Basically it would be just the addition of comfrey leaf and fish bone meal.
Now to the amendments(this seems to be the area of debate and to be honest it is still open for guidance) I have this all on hand accept the insect Frass
Acadian Kelp Meal @ 1/2 Cup per cubic foot
Neem Cake and Karanja Cake 50/50 Mix @ 1/2 cup per cubic foot
Crustacean Meal @ 1/2 Cup per cubic foot
Gypsum Dust @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Brix Blend Basalt @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Glacial Rock Dust @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Oyster Flour @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot
The maybe's:
1. Greensand. I don't see how it would hurt and I would like to squeeze some in.
2. Azomite. Can any one tell me why not?
3. Fish Bone Meal. Not realy sold on it but it is recommended for a top dress which I'm really kool with.
4. Comfrey. Scared to put it in from the start because of my obsession to have worms in my soil. They might eat it all.
5. Worms. there the shit(no pun intended)
6. alfalfa. granted i get N from the Neem and such but my compost only has .75% total nitrogen
7. Insect Frass. (2/lb. bag for $28) Insect Frass naturally contains the nutrition plants require, beneficial micro-organisms, and the only immediately plant-available source of chitin (pronounced “Kite-in”). Chitin fortifies a plant from the inside out, causing an "auto-immune" response that signals a plant to produce natural toxins which fend off its natural enemies like pests and fungal pathogens. The EPA says that chitin and chitosan (see FAQ's) defend against botrytis (grey mold), powdery mildew, early and late blight, fungal pathogens in the root zone (root rot) and root-feeding nematodes. Insect Frass does NOT cause a plant to kill beneficial insects or beneficial nematodes.
I'd like to say thank you for your time and patience. Thank you!
Heres the current growth of the PCK it was put into flower the 16th of last month.
. I explained my desire to do a traditional SOG(4/sq.ft.). I also explained my desire for organics. During this explanation I inquired about a single cola strain that would do well in the SOG(DF informed me of the required pheno hunt) Thats when I was turned onto our G13 Haze x Biker Kush by Mr. Karma G. This all gave me great direction and drive to make a super soil mix. Thats around the time I met the most helpful BigBo
(Much respect! Nuf said! Great Guy!). I told him about my desire to finish a sativa hybrid plant. He kindly obliged with a recipe for this noob using the info I had provided about my local compost. I was thrilled and mixed up a batch. And threw in some worms later. While it was cooking and being used up I discovered the no till method. This sparked my interest because I wasn't looking forward to recycling ALL that SOG soil(My intentions are for a 3'x6'x1' area). It was beautiful My SOG vision was coming together. Some of you may not know this but in the very begining here on IC I was trying to make a aquaponic way of growing my meds. This Organic,No till, living soil thing hit close to home and I began going back and forth With Team Mirobe. This guy is very giving and helpful as well. You can see from his thread(s) all of the people he contributed positive energy to. This is where I am at now and am planing on filling that 18 cu/ft. void in my life with a soil mix that will provide our Karma gear with the home it deserves. I have been discovering along the way the needs and uses of our favorite plant and the soil it lives in mostly using the BigBo's original mix. Now that has all been used up. With a cubic foot of TM's BAS mix well cooked on the horizon and the recognition that the two mixes are not that much different I have been trying to focus on a mix that will be used in the future indoor, raised bed, SOG.
Oh, lets not forget LLB. I've spent many nights going back and forth private messaging the night away. She has been most helpful. Lady Lucky Bean, I've known you before you were LLB and you've been mushing(in the spirit of the beloved iditarod) that trail ahead of me in our growing experiences showing me the way through the dark. Thank you.
All to go into a 72"W x 36"D x 14"H Geopot
Some of these ratios here are what they are because thats the size I get when I order it. This does fit into the ratios BAS has on there web sight for a complete premium soil mix. I'm also aware of the flexibility of the mix.
"15% Vermicompost
15% Compost
30 - 40% Sphagnum Peat Moss or Homemade Leafmold
20 - 30% Small Lava Rock, Perlite, Buckwheat hulls, rice hulls etc. something for aeration"
This is what I would like to see in my soil mix:
Rice Hulls: 1 cu/ft (I have on hand)
Buckwheat Hulls: .5 cu/ft (Amazon $30)
Pumice: 2 cu/ft (Amazon $120)
Black lava rock: 2 cu/ft (BuildASoil $90)
Sphagnum Peat: 6.5 (I have on hand)
Compost: 3.5 (I have on hand)
EWC: 3 (BAS has this amount for $170) Not a bad price considering the local guy is charging me $10 and he doesn't have that much to give.
This is quoted from the Build-A-Flower Top dress Kit on the BAS web sight "The Build-A-Flower Top Dress kit is a well rounded and complete approach to flowering. With one top dress you effectively add all the nutrients and micro-nutrients required for a healthy soil. The Compost and Worm castings act as a delivery system for the nutrients in the Comfrey and Kelp. We add a very small amount of Neem Cake to assist with pest control. Fish bone is an excellent source of organic phosphorous and calcium.
That all being said, why not just add it from the begging? Basically it would be just the addition of comfrey leaf and fish bone meal.
Now to the amendments(this seems to be the area of debate and to be honest it is still open for guidance) I have this all on hand accept the insect Frass
Acadian Kelp Meal @ 1/2 Cup per cubic foot
Neem Cake and Karanja Cake 50/50 Mix @ 1/2 cup per cubic foot
Crustacean Meal @ 1/2 Cup per cubic foot
Gypsum Dust @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Brix Blend Basalt @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Glacial Rock Dust @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Oyster Flour @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot
The maybe's:
1. Greensand. I don't see how it would hurt and I would like to squeeze some in.
2. Azomite. Can any one tell me why not?
3. Fish Bone Meal. Not realy sold on it but it is recommended for a top dress which I'm really kool with.
4. Comfrey. Scared to put it in from the start because of my obsession to have worms in my soil. They might eat it all.
5. Worms. there the shit(no pun intended)
6. alfalfa. granted i get N from the Neem and such but my compost only has .75% total nitrogen
7. Insect Frass. (2/lb. bag for $28) Insect Frass naturally contains the nutrition plants require, beneficial micro-organisms, and the only immediately plant-available source of chitin (pronounced “Kite-in”). Chitin fortifies a plant from the inside out, causing an "auto-immune" response that signals a plant to produce natural toxins which fend off its natural enemies like pests and fungal pathogens. The EPA says that chitin and chitosan (see FAQ's) defend against botrytis (grey mold), powdery mildew, early and late blight, fungal pathogens in the root zone (root rot) and root-feeding nematodes. Insect Frass does NOT cause a plant to kill beneficial insects or beneficial nematodes.
I'd like to say thank you for your time and patience. Thank you!
Heres the current growth of the PCK it was put into flower the 16th of last month.
Former Guest
Active member
That was SO SWEET! Of course you're married 
I remember when you were putting copper sulfate (dutchmaster zone) and floralicious on your plants.
I remember when you were putting copper sulfate (dutchmaster zone) and floralicious on your plants.
