Its all about the LIGHT (plant to light ratios)

[ancientmariner]

Ghostly, I'm hoping you'll ignore the haters and post some pics because irrespective of plant-per-light argument, I'm interested in the actual system.

Regardless of "optimal plant-per-light" ratios, I think I would agree that in my experience, fewer, bigger plants equates to less work in the long run, both at set-up and at harvest. But I can't speak to grams-per-watt or lbs-per-1k-light because I've only budded out the occasional mother plant, and usually just stuck her outside my standard 4x4 F&D table, where she received weak, indirect light at best, and yielded tons of popcorn.

I recently ran a couple of Waterfarms and liked the results, and was planning on bumping up to a dozen of those. To that end, I have been vegging 12 plants for about 5 weeks now under a 1k light; they are in 4" RW blocks atop 6" x 6" x 3" Par-Gro blocks. But if I go that route, I need to purchase and install a chiller. With your setup, it sounds like I could achieve comparable results (I also have more than 2-dozen black 5-gal buckets collecting dust somewhere) without need for a chiller. So I'm definitely looking forward to learning more, haters and trolls be damned.

 

[00420]

i drill a whole near the bottom of each bucket (7/8" bit) which i fit with a grommet, .

did/do you have leak's?..................
grommet's are 19mm, 7/8's = 22mm try using 13/16 (20.6mm)

 

[ghostly]

thanks 00420

we use 15 1000w lamps, over 30 plants in 5g buckets and get 20 lbs every 2 months.
but all you trolls must be killing it, cuz im a jackass with no knowledge or skill.

mariner... t5's veg just fine. in fact ive used 600w mh and the t5 are just as productive and easier to deal with IMO

 

[hydr1]

Well...first off quality is everything...if you have twenty pounds of shitty weed you should just smack yourself. Id take five pounds of premium over that anyday. The numbers you make selling primo make up for the numbers of weight.

Now, I've grown soil, hydro, aero.....zero veg, one week, two weeks, three weeks, 2 months, 1 year veg.
crowded, scrog, sog.....everything except vertical. I've had four plants under a light with long veg and twenty plants under a light with little veg.

Where im at....I am getting good quality buds and good weight running an even dozen plants per light. 600 or 1000...dozen plants. Two week veg...staggered tables ..perpetual. four lights.four tables.

Every one to two weeks a table is chopped/filled.no downtime between harvests. The next batch of clones are vegged and ready. Two to three ounces per plant, so that's a minimum of twenty four ounces a week. That's 96 ouncesa month.1152 ounces a year. Or 72 lbs. The quality is worth about 3000-3800 a lb.


Finding strains and dialing them in is the hard part...trimming is hard. People get greedy and don't know what the fuck they are doing. Trying to cram twenty plants in a 4ft tent with a 600 and air conditioner...mold, mildew, mites, rot, ect.....they never listen when I say run five or run nine with little veg.

Knowing your strains and how they grow, produce best and how much veg they need to get the size. That's tough.

So I say...depending on how much space you have, how much the plants grow and which way they grow (bushy;tall;short)what kind of lights you use for veg is also huge.

If vegging under flouros
24 plants for one week veg
12 plants for two week veg
8 plants for three week veg
4 plants for one mont veg
1 plant for anything more

** extensive topping, lst, fim, training or scrog could effect growth of plants as well. I like to fim and supercrop as much as I can.

 

[socialist]

mariner... t5's veg just fine. in fact ive used 600w mh and the t5 are just as productive and easier to deal with IMO

10 months later.

hydr1 hit the nail on the fucking head. After 6 years of experimenting I've come up with the same conclusion.

 

[hydr1]

thanks 00420

we use 15 1000w lamps, over 30 plants in 5g buckets and get 20 lbs every 2 months.
but all you trolls must be killing it, cuz im a jackass with no knowledge or skill.

mariner... t5's veg just fine. in fact ive used 600w mh and the t5 are just as productive and easier to deal with IMO

So your spending about 3,600 a run for electric
And making about 50,000
Six runs a year.

21600 a year in ac
300,000 in produce

278,400 clear.


With my method.in a 10x10 room with 3200 watts. 4 tables,twelve plants each.


4,608 a year in ac

252,000 in produce

247,392. Clear

Those numbers don't make you such a pro...lumens are wasted at a certain point...and im not using co2 or an air conditioner.

Im sure your ac is another 6000 a year with those lights.

 

[hydr1]

Five times the light...a bunch of veg time, five times the cost of ac and your only clearing 30 more geeeeees.

Better hit the drawing board.

Usually people doing these kinds of things are stealing power though....I don't, im legal, 10x10 space and under 99 plants at all times....means I can sleep well at night and still make it to my real job every morning.

Peace to all...real recognize real

 

[Lazyman]

Yep the formula varies for every grow, and even every strain.

Hydr1, I don't think you're factoring in all the expenses of a grow, there's way more to it than just power costs. You also calculated YOUR weed as worth $3500 a pound, and his at $2500. Not a fair comparo unless you know for certain he only grows middies. All else being equal, he'd clear around 400K net a year (at your prices.)

Also, larger gardens don't usually yield like the smaller ones, it's rare for large grows (8K and up) to yield over 1.5# per light. There are exceptions yes, but the average is lower to be sure.

Generally the more time you spend on your grow (is it a full time job or not?) will dictate your yields about as much as strain selection. Labor intensive methods like SCROG will yield extremely well for the full time grower, but will suffer at the hands of the busy stoner with 2 regular jobs.

 

[hydr1]

Its pretty common for anyone growing 20 pounds a harvest to be selling them at 2500 a pack.

I can get more for mine but I actually donate mine for about 3000.

Its obvious that there is more going into it...if we get into that my numbers will just lean more towards my efficiency....because I don't do a res swap at all and I run cheap nutes.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to make an educated guess...that this guy is prob spending too much on nutes, res changing more than once, working more than I am in the room, paying five times as much for electric, five times more on hoods and bulbs, five times as much heat.

How many guys do you know that have been pulling twenty pounds every two months and sell them at 'ore than 2500?

And name any strain other than og or bubba that will sell for more than 3000 in my market anyways.

The whole point of this thread was a claim that what the op does is optimal foor maximum yield. When it turned to a pissing contest i was quick to whip out my small penis and piss smarter.

Peace enjoy.

Edit...by the way, I scrog, I work seventy hours a week at my normal job, sleep five hours a night.

 

[ghostly]

i knew i should have let this thread die in the achieves.

hydr- im not sure where to start with you... you sound quite efficient.
but your comments on a real job, sleep and a drawing board... its just smells like troll shit and i'm not stepping into it.
but thanks for the pix and info. best of luck to ya

 

[hydr1]

I was trolling...for info about plant to light ratios...

I was thinking lumens per sq foot and veg size would be discussed here more.

The drawing board mjst be implemented when numbers are not up to par.
Luck doesn't have much to do with growing.

 

[etinarcadiaego]

I was trolling...for info about plant to light ratios...

I was thinking lumens per sq foot and veg size would be discussed here more.

The drawing board mjst be implemented when numbers are not up to par.
Luck doesn't have much to do with growing.

Lumens, watts, PAR watts, etc, all don't mean anything to plants. Lumens are without a doubt the most irrelevant measure of a lights output to day, in fact light is just raditation, and plants prefer a diverse source rather than a single narrow source, like HPS lamps.

That said I agree with everything the OP said, except that I wanted to add HPS lamps shouldn't be used to flower cannabis, broader spectrum Halide lamps are FAR superior such as SunPulse lamps.

Fewer plants ARE better. Bigger buds on fewer plants usually means less shitty buds going into the trim bin, or at least that's proved true for me and my setup.

Good post!

 

[hydr1]

Mh = better?

Better what? Terpines and colors?

Nice plugg too.....sunpulse bulbs...

Because cannabis is sold by weight and potency as far as im concerned....mh will never give a spectrum that will produce dense, short nodal spacing and resin coated flowers like hps.

Are you saying a mixed spectrum...well in that case its obviouus that you will get great results with both.

Bulbs make lumens, lumens are a measurment of light....so your trying to say there is no limit of too much or too little light? And that it is irrelevant to plants?
that your not wasting your money at a certain point using non renewable resources and energy to burn fifteen thowies and get comparable results to someone using a quarter of the light and energy to get similar numbers and superior product?

Irrelevant? ..me thinks not wise guy

Saying four plants per 1000 watts is the best ratio for plants per lights....that's dumb...I posted figures to show that there are many ways to produce and generalization of this many plants and this many lights is a pointless theroy and practice. The variables here are insane. Veg time and genetics are a huge part of it....if I run four indicas under a 1000 they will produce similar numbers than four sativas??? And four plants vegged for how long, under how many lumens(even though they don't matter lol give me a break) will produce more thanthese four vegged for half the time?

Its not as easy as making a statement....ohhh we get twenty packs with 15 lights and use four plants per light.

Are the verticle? Are they open bulb? How far were the bulbs? Because those un important lumens dissapear the further the plants are from the useless hps bulbs.



Some of you growers out there are really crazy, the shit you convince yourselves with and preach...amazingly narrow minded and full of EGO

If we already knew everything by now...why are we here? Share info and pictures of your results...your words are missing any target without the logic and explanation...so get heated and spit some real info and provide more than stories.

 

[etinarcadiaego]

Mh = better?

Better what? Terpines and colors?

Nice plugg too.....sunpulse bulbs...

It's not a "plug", I'm speaking from experience, having tried the majority of bulbs currently available. These bulbs are better for overall plant growth, better as a single "sun" in an indoor environment. My garden uses a single source, one bulb per cab, currently I use 600watt lamps, previously I used 400s. Mainly I noticed the finish time was reducted modestly, perhaps 3-7% depending on the strain. But bud size and tightness was greater using the SunPulse than both HPS and "warm" halide bulbs, potency is genetic, not determined by light source, nor influenced.

Because cannabis is sold by weight and potency as far as im concerned....mh will never give a spectrum that will produce dense, short nodal spacing and resin coated flowers like hps.

Halide bulbs will produce shorter nodal spacing than the equivalent HPS light, this has proven true in my garden with every strain I currently run clones of. It's important to keep the plants as close to the light source as possible without stressing or burning the plants, and SunPulse bulbs run cooler than any bulb I've run, I finally contacted them to find out why and it's because of a chemical added to the arc tube that is currently protected by IP (intellectual property) patents. Just my experience, here to share it is all.

Bulbs make lumens, lumens are a measurment of light....so your trying to say there is no limit of too much or too little light? And that it is irrelevant to plants?
that your not wasting your money at a certain point using non renewable resources and energy to burn fifteen thowies and get comparable results to someone using a quarter of the light and energy to get similar numbers and superior product?

Irrelevant? ..me thinks not wise guy

Bulbs make lumens, lol. No, bulbs emit radiation. I don't know what you mean by too little or too much light, of course your garden can be under or over lit, no doubt, but halide technology is greener than HPS, so I don't see your point. And please stop condescending, my post was meant to be helpful based on my experience, not argumentative.

Saying four plants per 1000 watts is the best ratio for plants per lights....that's dumb...I posted figures to show that there are many ways to produce and generalization of this many plants and this many lights is a pointless theroy and practice. The variables here are insane. Veg time and genetics are a huge part of it....if I run four indicas under a 1000 they will produce similar numbers than four sativas??? And four plants vegged for how long, under how many lumens(even though they don't matter lol give me a break) will produce more thanthese four vegged for half the time?

I'm assuming this post was not directed towards me as I never said a specific number of plants. Like you said genotype and environment are considerable factors to be considered when determining the ideal plant count and spacing under a given light source.

Are the verticle? Are they open bulb? How far were the bulbs? Because those un important lumens dissapear the further the plants are from the useless hps bulbs.

They don't really disappear as much as they disperse, but yes, the inverse square law applies to any source of radiation, be it light or nuclear, etc.

Some of you growers out there are really crazy, the shit you convince yourselves with and preach...amazingly narrow minded and full of EGO

If we already knew everything by now...why are we here? Share info and pictures of your results...your words are missing any target without the logic and explanation...so get heated and spit some real info and provide more than stories.

Ego? I simply wanted to share my experience, and the collective experiences of Indiana University photobiologists studying this issue now. Give SunPulse a try is all I'm saying, see if it works for you!

Good luck!

 

[Lazyman]

Mh = better?

Better what? Terpines and colors?

Nice plugg too.....sunpulse bulbs...

Because cannabis is sold by weight and potency as far as im concerned....mh will never give a spectrum that will produce dense, short nodal spacing and resin coated flowers like hps.

Actually you're wrong, MH bulbs (blue light spectrums) DO produce shorter internodal spacing and are well known for producing frostier buds. This is pretty much common knowledge with weed. MH bulbs are less efficient in the lumens per watt ratings, but the spectral distribution of a good MH (I like Eye Daylight Blues) are far superior to any HPS bulb I've seen. The Eye DB puts out more blue than their Super HPS, and WAY more red at 660nm.

Are you saying a mixed spectrum...well in that case its obviouus that you will get great results with both.

Bulbs make lumens, lumens are a measurment of light....so your trying to say there is no limit of too much or too little light? And that it is irrelevant to plants?

Lumens don't make plants grow, the ONLY reason we use lumens is it's commonly available data and easy to measure with cheapo light meters. Good PAR meters start at around $1K, and even if you had one, you'd be the only one here with those stats. Comparing apples and oranges is useless.

If you'd like some references as the the science of light I'd be glad to post some white papers and research studies. Anecdotal evidence should be barred from discussions like this.

 

[B.C.]

Man.... why yall gotta act that way?!?! if yer gonna act that way, why even post???

Spare us next time, we don't wanna read that shit!!!! BC

 

[hydr1]

Yes please post info...far more useful than opinions.


BC...if you don't like what you see..keep moving. No one is forcing you and that last post was just as useless as not making one at all. Thanks bro.

 

[Aeroguerilla]

i got 1 room with 9kw and another room with 8kw 18 plants in each room all i want is 10lb per room but i know ill hit the 15 mark in the ak room... big plants is the way to go if you dont mind the initial veg time... my veg is 6-8weeks in 15gal smartpots... I also think size of pot contributed to yield aswell. going to be running some 65gals inside next run will see what happens. nice numbers bro

 

[B.C.]

lol

lol

BC...if you don't like what you see..keep moving. No one is forcing you and that last post was just as useless as not making one at all. Thanks bro.

How hard is it ta act civil? No one likes being talked to that way. No one is forcing you either, maybe it's -you- that should keep moving. Bein civil while stating yer point isn't gonna change the truth. BC

 

[hydr1]

This is where productive growing discussions go bad...

When you start talking about radiation and your science class and being civil.

The threads about plant numbers and light ratios.

I don't give a shit what bulb you use.

What strain?
how many lights?
how many plants?
how much veg time?
how much yield?

Now work your answers into a statement used towards the discussion. Amazing if you can stick to the topic and not try to get into pyscholoigical nerd games.
sorry if I offended any of you. Try going back in the thread and reading what its about and read my initial statement...look at the pretty pictures and try to do something similar