It's a bunch of high priced corn.

[MileHighGuy]

No it isn't solved.
I see the talent spread out for no reason. Your site unfortunately has the same downfalls. Might as well be reading the posts on S****** seeds.
There is little expertise in these forums. Yes I can think for my self, I've studied a lot, but I still rely on the expertise of others. Now they're even further splattered all over the place. You took a vast majority of posters from here. What was the point? So you could run your own advertisement and make your own claims? Whatever. Everybody loses.

Nobody has to lose man. I've read many of your posts in the past and was surprised to see you in such a bad mood with this thread. Think abundantly, there is enough info for all to share and take part in. We are all learning together and peer support is very important. Instead of whining... contribute and challenge. Ask questions and inquire about other peoples observations. There are many talented growers that frequent several of the forums available online. There was never just one forum and if there was only 1 forum, well that certainly wouldn't be the best way to keep information open and unchallenged.

I'm not offended at all, just surprised, it's this attitude of us or them that keeps information scattered and constantly moving.

When your hands are in the dirt all day and your doing your best to learn all the time and keep an open mind, it's tough to find the time to please everyone and always be right.

I've been wrong a million times and my comments and photo's and threads here will prove that. Hell 5 years ago I have photo's of Powdery Mildew that I thought were frosty buds, but I didn't stop learning then and I won't now. I love gardening because it's constantly teaching me about life, and lately, I really feel like I know nothing. I learned so much so fast that I started to understand how much I actually don't know... there are so many studies out there all contradicting each other, it's insane. I really wish we could design a college dedicated to cannabis horticulture and carry out side by side test grows of every variation ever in controlled rooms. But alas, I'm rambling....

In any case, all I hope to get across is that we are all passionate about the same thing sometimes forget that we have the same goals. Nobody has to lose and I hope we can all keep growing together.

-MHG

 

[h.h.]

Actually I applaud the move away from strictly cannabis. I've always felt that it was just another plant in the garden.
A bit frustrated to see the talent spread out.
I guess I have an inherent mistrust when business is mixed with pleasure. As hard as we may try to avoid it, you end up with a good ol' boy network with little peer review. We have some pretty well respected promoters out there who have fallen into that trap. There is a lot of dissension created amongst the community as we go in all these off directions.
I do wish you luck, and I do appreciate the reply.

To edit a bit, I see a flaw in my thinking.
I'm still in the cannabis fog.
We are growing other plants for which cytokinin may play a greater role. It is sold as tomato spray.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0070080

 

[MileHighGuy]

I've been reading a lot about tissue cultures and it seems that coconut water keeps showing up.... and cytokinins.

This guy is cool: SKOOG Edit: Here is the source: http://users.ugent.be/~pdebergh/ind/content.htm

"SKOOG in 1954 made his now famous discovery when he used an old sample of deoxyribonucleic acid from Herring sperm to try and promote active growth of wound callus of tobacco and obtained a very promotive effect. The active component was only present in the old DNA sample or in autoclaved fresh samples and pointed to the active component being a breakdown product of DNA. In 1955 SKOOG identified this as kinetin and it was then thought that kinetin*like factors were present in plants as natural plant growth regulators. This was acertained to be correct when zeatin was isolated from maize endosperm by LETHAM in 1963. Zeatin was later shown to be the active component of coconut milk."

Some interesting studies are showing that secondary metabolites are increased with auxin reduction and cytokinin production.... I'm not saying that we have the ability to influence this stuff, but it can't hurt to try and see.

Cytokinin and all this stuff is fun, but when coot shows up out of the blue and hasn't been around in awhile... I pay attention. He's been a tremendous help in my life and he told my to play with corn.... My results have been exciting and I think Corn is WAY cheaper than buying Coconut water to play with. Good thing is Cytokinin is only 1 very narrow topic.

Funding projects and finding money has always been challenging but receiving donations from your peers instead of money from advertisers has worked for others in the past and I'd say that having an absence of advertisers speaks volumes for our motivation.

In any case, I really don't have to defend anything, I'm on the phone and on email 12 hours a day helping other growers with zero expectations and living my absolute dreams right now.

And for the record, I didn't "start" anything else.... A group of people did, and sometimes a leader has to step forward to make things happen.... and usually that leader has to do it for free or people like you will cry wolf and say that the evil money has been involved.

Rediculous, money is just a tool.

It's not natural to be so jaded, mistrusting and negative, you have ton's of light and positivity in you H.H. Forget the haters and keep sharing good information.

None of us can control the sheep who will follow anyone doing anything different, but as leaders in the community we have a responsibility to keep learning and keep improving. The future is here and if we don't get smart and start finding business people we can trust than the big boys in the industry will keep things according to their play book and never have all natural knowledge out there for the new grower.... it will be PH pen, hydro bucket and nutrients over and over again.

Martin Luther King Jr said, "“Those who love peace must learn to organize as effectively as those who love war.”

We aren't fighting a war, but we certainly can't just let the big boys dictate the entire commercial voice. I really hope that one day there are dozens of active organic cannabis and gardening enthusiasts creating real change and positive business's that can compete with the industry.

Anyways, thanks for the well wishes, but action speak louder than words and I appreciate you writing back to me and keeping it civil. I know how it is to be passionate about something and I can fully appreciate your frustration with everyone being spread out... but it was not something that any of us asked for, sometimes things happen and movements are created..... I'm just going with the flow and lately I've been telling myself I'm in the right place at the right time all the time.

I really wish more people would get out in the public.... I've helped hundreds of growers switch to organics and they call me smiling and telling me they are happy with the results. We all know how rewarding an organic grow can be... so let's all stop working against each other and help get more people involved. It's not like we need to convert anyone, but it's not fair that people out there would love to grow organic and they don't even know where to start. They guy at the hydro shop shows them some organic grow bottles and the buddy they know says organic doesn't yield and then it's back to synthetic before they even started. So, with all of us having such good results, I feel it is our duty to let others know that at a bare minimum there are other ways.

As always, people can DIY all of the components of Organics... or they can pay someone else to do it for them. As long as the info is there for both, I'm happy.

Feel Free to PM me anytime if you have more details questions etc.

 

[milkyjoe]

You didn't address what you actually were doing differently to try and manipulate these growth regulators within the plant...which is what I was curious about. (oops...edit...was typing when you just responded above - thanks for adressing that)

I can see you placing stimuli in the soil (or through foliar feeding) which could theoretically provide the plant with the necessary means of performing a genetically mandated function with greater effiecency.

The topic by large is not even fully understood in it's entirety by people that use a bunch sentences in which I have to look up nearly every fifth word...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3146736/

And they are trying to grasp a better understanding of it by using genomic material to find the purpose / interconnectedness of it all via coding sequences...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22527389

While I think it may be an interesting thing to tinker with - I don't think there is anything at all that can be determined conclusively, especially not by simply observing the plants as they grow - even when using a group of control plants or exercising some degree of scientific control. (which is what I thought you were impling when you stated "control" above given the particular intricacy of the topic)

Don't get me wrong though - I don't see anything wrong with drawing a hypothesis for further study by using anecdotal evidence...I was just curious to what degree you had been messing around with the particular topic at hand.

On a completely unrealted note -

I think OG's have extremely vigorous rooting structures, fwiw...albeit some of them can be a bit difficult to clone - once rooted, they are some of the fastest growing, most vigorous cuts I've ever worked with.



dank.Frank

I don't usually wait until something is fully understood...hell some people are still arguing for creationism. If it gets my interest I give it a shot and go from there.

My OGs have that extreme distance between nodes. I am attempting to tighten that up. Kempf makes the claim that when you get that auxins have become dominant over cytokinins. Kelp can help improve that situation...or at least I think it can at the moment. (I like to eat the coconuts to and I have never tried sprouted corn)

There is always another underlying cause that started it in the first place. A mineral balance thing, or an uptake thing. So ultimately solving the root cause is best.

When auxins (best say allegedly here) become dominant the root system alone can no longer feed the plant, the plant no longer makes enough sugar to feed itself and the soil and a downward spiral begins. Foliar at that point helps get things back on track.

Anyways...like I said I don't really know, but that does not stop me from playing around.

 

[h.h.]

It is totally natural to be jaded, mistrusting, and negative when it comes to money changing hands. MM has a good quote on that in his signature. It is a bit of a toss up for me. I totally respect the business that you're in. Much more environmentally correct than mine. I won't readdress my concerns. No point in harping. I think you may really have the same concerns at heart.
Interesting the effect of CK on tomatoes. I always thought it somehow protected the pollen from the heat. I guess with CK, the fruit sets regardless of any pollen present. You get tomatoes with few seeds. I never noticed anything like that using it on MJ. Not sure I'd want to, then maybe I would.

Getting ready to do some heirloom tomato grafts. First attempt.

I believe one big reason for using coconut water in the past was that it was sterile.

 

[milkyjoe]

Coconut water is very high in K, and it is soluble as in ionic. If you have too much K already coconut water is a very bad idea. If you lack K then maybe.

I don't know anything about corn.

 

[h.h.]

A plant will put out tons of seed with few actually sprouting. Many of the sprouts die.
Looking at the litter under my trees, perhaps 10% is from seed material.
We may be looking backwards when looking for effect. It's not always, I did this then the plant did that. We think we're manipulating. When using an SST, all you are really doing is putting back what you took away. A higher level of hormones and enzymes in the soil around a plant is much more normal than abnormal.
When you look at a seed, any seed, it has the potential in it to carry the plant through sprouting. Some have a higher protein content. Corn is high energy, lots of protein(N). Amylase (alpha, beta, gluco...) is released in malted (sprouted) grain. It is a enzyme and a protein. Amylase works in the conversion of carbohydrates to mostly dextrose that will feed the microlife. Barley malt has the most amylase of the commercially available grains. It is often used with corn for whiskey because it has a lot of amylase. Enough to help convert the carbohydrates in the corn. While barley malt also contains other enzymes beside amylase, amylase is mainly what you are after. Alpha works best at around 80* Beta and gluco at 155*. They all start deteriorating over 160*. They are all available from brewing supplies. Perhaps not considered organic, but if one wanted to test enzyme activity.
Hormones, perhaps just making sure that there is enough for the plant to draw upon if necessary. As always follow nature.

 

[dank.frank]

I don't usually .wait until something is fully understood...If it gets my interest I give it a shot and go from there.

Anyways...like I said I don't really know, but that does not stop me from playing around.

Don't get me wrong though - I don't see anything wrong with drawing a hypothesis for further study by using anecdotal evidence...I was just curious to what degree you had been messing around with the particular topic at hand.

dank.Frank

LOL - seems we are on the same page.



dank.Frank

 

[MileHighGuy]

A plant will put out tons of seed with few actually sprouting. Many of the sprouts die.
Looking at the litter under my trees, perhaps 10% is from seed material.
We may be looking backwards when looking for effect. It's not always, I did this then the plant did that. We think we're manipulating. When using an SST, all you are really doing is putting back what you took away. A higher level of hormones and enzymes in the soil around a plant is much more normal than abnormal.
When you look at a seed, any seed, it has the potential in it to carry the plant through sprouting. Some have a higher protein content. Corn is high energy, lots of protein(N). Amylase (alpha, beta, gluco...) is released in malted (sprouted) grain. It is a enzyme and a protein. Amylase works in the conversion of carbohydrates to mostly dextrose that will feed the microlife. Barley malt has the most amylase of the commercially available grains. It is often used with corn for whiskey because it has a lot of amylase. Enough to help convert the carbohydrates in the corn. While barley malt also contains other enzymes beside amylase, amylase is mainly what you are after. Alpha works best at around 80* Beta and gluco at 155*. They all start deteriorating over 160*. They are all available from brewing supplies. Perhaps not considered organic, but if one wanted to test enzyme activity.
Hormones, perhaps just making sure that there is enough for the plant to draw upon if necessary. As always follow nature.

Wait! What?! All that bad ass stuff in corn that you can get at the grocery store for a few bucks. Sounds like something I should play with.

Now I'm being a sarcastic ass, but honestly after talking with Coot and others who have had noticeable effects in their garden, it seems it would be a real shame not to at least experiment with corn.

So at this point, I'll say I'm stoked on the conversation and I really don't care how it get's started as long as these conversations are being had out in the open we can all benefit.

If anyone tries a Corn Sprouted Seed Tea and doesn't notice an effect within 24 hours.... I would be really surprised.

 

[captinahab]

Show me an A and B blind taste test....with new smokers thru advanced... will one of them say "oh yeah,mmm.. i can taste the corn sprout tea they used to grow in sample A".... lol

Sure it may make the plant a little more healthy, it may produce a little more weight on the scale, it may even shave a day or two off of flower time.... but thats it.

I dont think its going to make it any more dank in the smoke at the end which is whqt we should be focusing on.

Its super nice to have healthy plants, great root structure, and show quality leaves....... but we throw that all away in the end... so it impresses no one but other growers.

The three most important rules to growing better weed is
1) genetics, genetics, genetics.... number one for a reason because its the hands down biggest factor to the final product
2) proper dry and cure... you laugh but its 80% of the grow.. very important and has the second biggest effect in end product.
And 90% of growers fuck it up!!!
3) excluding things that effect final taste... example guano or other products that make the final produt harsh, high nutes, salts...etc.

Instead people focus on magic bullets for bumper crops..

The term dank is interchangable with the word patience. Growing is a long game and the process shouldnt be rushed. If you pull out a baggie of weed i wont smoke with you. If you pull out a jar that has a 6+ month old date on it then im in....

Not saying plant health isnt a good thing.. just saying end process is where i want to spend my hours debating on science. I tried the coconut tea and aloe tea. It was ten dollars for one aplication from some fancy organic food store.... apply every 3 days... damn that adds up quick. Did it do anything for the end smoke...nope...... game changer.... nope. Ok corns cheaper to make, but still danker weed....nope.

You wanna do something that may effect final product maby add a companion plant that can bring out more resins

Ill tell you the same thing i tell new people. Why is it that i use so little and get so much.. and you use so much and get so little.

A sure sign of a new comer is racks of nutes , potions, and powders... an old timer dont half to add shit. Years of personal trial and error are how we learn. Digging thru cannabis forums for knowledge is not useful because you have never tried what we have read .... and then sometimes reposted it as law ....lol....tested knowledge is king and you only get that thru dirt time period!!!

 

[h.h.]

Wait! What?! All that bad ass stuff in corn that you can get at the grocery store for a few bucks. Sounds like something I should play with.

Now I'm being a sarcastic ass, but honestly after talking with Coot and others who have had noticeable effects in their garden, it seems it would be a real shame not to at least experiment with corn.

So at this point, I'll say I'm stoked on the conversation and I really don't care how it get's started as long as these conversations are being had out in the open we can all benefit.

If anyone tries a Corn Sprouted Seed Tea and doesn't notice an effect within 24 hours.... I would be really surprised.

Corn has nitrogen.
I get plenty of seed from my acacias.

I do tend to forget. Nothing much grows in Colorado except grass and a couple of wanna be pines. Remember sunshine? Well there are those Ford cantaloupes. Almost as good as ours.
You're a good sport. Thinking about making it out to Cripple Creek this summer. Might even bring out some good cornless California weed.
Now I'm clowning.
"My women said. " hey Pedro, you're acting crazy like a clown.""

 

[Weird]

each natural ecosystem has different mechanism to achieve the same means even from a ROLS perspective and they left because they wanted to eliminate focus from anything but ROLS

is it ironic that what many of us think should be the ultimate goal should be taken from the mainstream? I think that the hyper focus was over the head of many and in process and made it tough for all involved.

this is not an university system where everyone is open to a methodology of information sharing but its a place were many non mainstream people reverse engineered an education in niche entrepreneur agriculture

I wish it wasn't this way but I really think that MHG had a point about abundance for everyone

We do lose something as the community fragments don't get me wrong, but these circles aren't necessarily closed and many people within one circle may exist in another

remember most everything that comes to our circles initially comes from others as well, most organic information applied here was learned elsewhere outside the world of cannabis

open the door walk out of the closes world of the cannabis grower and there is a pert of the world is already working on stuff we have yet to learn

 

[dank.frank]

I call it the take my ball and go home mentallity...

I have never gotten along with people that say my way or the highway...it just displays an absolute disrespect for anyting other than self. And once you think you have it all figured out - that is when you stop learning and progress dies.

It's through contrasting opinions and the sharing of different ideas that fuels progression. Pushing for blanket acceptance doesn't do anything accept create a good testbed for how large a possible consumer niche may be...and that goal was acheived.



dank.Frank

 

[MileHighGuy]

Must spread rep around before frank get's any more.

Might even bring out some good cornless California weed.

Haha, I'd probably turn up my nose after I decided not enough corn was used.

 

[h.h.]

Corn is for drinking, not smoking.

 

[Weird]

I call it the take my ball and go home mentallity...

I have never gotten along with people that say my way or the highway...it just displays an absolute disrespect for anyting other than self. And once you think you have it all figured out - that is when you stop learning and progress dies.

It's through contrasting opinions and the sharing of different ideas that fuels progression. Pushing for blanket acceptance doesn't do anything accept create a good testbed for how large a possible consumer niche may be...and that goal was acheived.



dank.Frank

I think that's great but when it happens in a thread were people are applying techniques and testing results amongst each other it is distracting

many people leave because the contrast they are exposed to is conflictual not harmonies

think music

no one want to listen to a bunch of guys wank out on instruments all trying to play their own tune

 

[h.h.]

I think that's great but when it happens in a thread were people are applying techniques and testing results amongst each other it is distracting

many people leave because the contrast they are exposed to is conflictual not harmonies

think music

no one want to listen to a bunch of guys wank out on instruments all trying to play their own tune

It's even worst when the only instrument is a clarinet.

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

It's even worst when the only instrument is a clarinet.

or someone playing ripple over and over and over ............. on the kazoo

 

[MileHighGuy]

MORE COW BELL

 

[h.h.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dglu6K0Rni8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgd-tkjxQ94