Is it just me? Or.....

[unnamedmike]

im talking about 'desfran' from dutch passion ..............its an exceptionally flavored pheno of destroyer from cannbiogen .................which is pretty controversial in its self !! .....its basically a straight rip off of cannabiogens work.!! no cross involved just a straight destroyer x destroyer rip off !!...............its exceptional stuff tho ...i have to speak the truth as i see it

Hey growhigh1233. You can find the exactly "desfran" pheno in a single cannabiogen 5fem pack, and +4 amazing phenos. Because of pirates like dutch, kaiki (charly garcia) from cannabiogen stopped making seeds, great breeder. And btw, what others "seedmakers" are doing with their peyote purple is a great shame.

A close friend went to Mexico last October for 2 weeks and stayed in a resort that was owned by a cartel apparently many are.
The beach is roped off at the resort and people selling goods a lot of it being cannabis and other drugs can come up to the rope and sell there goods to the holiday makers.
My mate was offered pre rolled joints hybrids buds and sativa buds he went with the sativa buds and was real happy with the smoke very strong and seedless .
So its their you just need to find it.

Hey hempy!
sadly it is not so easy. Each zone of Mexico has its distributor. In addition, the target of the hotel resorts are foreign tourism, not national.
My first years in Mexico i traveled a bit around the republic, and without a doubt the best herbs, in the mountains of Veracruz and mountains of Guerrero, very very good quality, despite the bad looking due the poor care, potent stuff. In all other states, in my experience, it is very difficult to find decent smoke.

 

[therevverend]

So, a lot of you seem to be afraid to undertake growing sativas indoors? Interesting. It's like anything else; where there is a will - there is a way.

It's not a question of fear or will power; a plant's genes are pre-determined. Most equatorial strains are poorly, very very poorly, adapted to growing indoors under natural lights in containers. They don't do well in the dirt mixes or nutrients for indoor growing. I believe these plants need space for their roots, I'm very curious how long their tap roots get. I know growers who are fanatical about vertical root space. They plant their seeds in containers with 12 inches of room and that's just at the start. Instead we end up doing the opposite, cramming these plants into containers to keep them from growing vegetatively and outgrowing the grow room.

A tent is much too small to grow these strains. I used to have my dad's old growbook, the first one that came out in the early 70s when indoor lighting was discovered. It had pictures of these gigantic sativas filling a garage. They had all these halides pinned to the ceiling and these giant plants 8 feet tall. They had to use a ladder indoors! Fuck me for loaning that book to some idiot and losing it. We always made fun of it but I realize now those were the best looking sativas I've ever seen grown indoors with long airy beautiful colas. On the back page they had a picture of 'Cannabis Indica' which 'shows great promise for the future of indoor growing..'

They also had the first hydro system. It was a little toilet with plants growing in the bowl. You'd flush the toilet to make the nutrients cycle.

Tropical strains mature poorly under artificial lighting, probably because the sun is so intense at the equator. It's strange because strains that grow high in the mountains with lots of UV adapt much better. I have so many questions about this type of stuff, lots of theories but few answers.

Equatorial soil can be awful, weird PH, clay, low nutrients, salts; landrace strains can get adapted to weird mixes that the indoor grower has to puzzle out. Many times it's impossible. The end result is what you see in pictures. Grizzled leafy hairy beasts with a long tapering branches ending in a tiny cluster of white hairs after 18 weeks. Only 4 more to go!

It leaves the indoor grower with 3 choices really. Give up, inbred and select the hell out of it, or hybridize. When I talk about Ace's stuff being inbred that's praise, very few breeders take the time to work their strains long enough for them to become true breeding. (Or 'borrow' the work of other growers and then market it but that's another can of worms) It's one of my biggest complaints about most seed companies. They keep their true bred strains for themselves and only sell hybrids. It's a clever business plan but it makes their seeds almost useless.

I'm an outdoor grower not a clonester. Year to year I can't pheno hunt. I plant a bunch of seeds and pick the best plants, ditch the rest. Like my friend always says, 'I only trust my own breeding.' Since most of the hybrids available are too unpredictable from seed. I can't afford to buy 2 or 3 packs, test them out and find the keeper. For me pheno hunting means I have to plant out the packs, cull most of them for different reasons and hope I selected the 2 or 3 best males and females. Cross those into my lines, then hope after the season is over when I'm testing them I like them. Otherwise it's bird seed. I want to buy packs of seeds with predictable results, that's much more likely with inbred lines.

If one was looking for these sorts of genetics, any idea where you would start? I have been questing for midwest mexican for a while now but haven't had much luck. Like an episode of an Anthony Bourdain show, just looking for those experiences that take you back to childhood.

Oh man those guys got busted 20 years ago, all those genetics are long gone. Anyone left growing that stuff after all these years is so secretive you'd never know. It could be anyone. Maybe there's an old man somewhere with a seed stash and a grow room, waiting for the right disciple to pass the legacy to. This has been a huge problem, in the USA and around the world. How many great genetics ended up in a box in evidence rooms or sprayed with herbicides from a helicopter. How many farms simply got stolen by the government. How many awesome growers who had the balls to go for it ended up having their work destroyed and their lives upended. What a disaster for our culture. Now the cowards, thieves, rip offs, and businessmen can reap the bounty the 'criminals' created. The worst part is when I was young I had a sense of how special what we had was, how fragile it was and how it needed to be preserved.

One thing I remember, the longer flowering tropical leaning stuff was always lost first. Whether it was because it was almost impossible to clone, tended to hermie, harder to grow, took longer, especially outdoors, or we didn't understand enough about botany, it always ended up getting lost or culled. It was frustrating I really miss that stuff sometimes. Big purple sativa colas or spicy lime green banana shaped flowers. It makes a lot of the modern sativas look silly, probably why so little of Ace's stuff has impressed me.

Of course all those strains were hybridized, it was why they turned out so well indoors. That might be the best way to go. I like Hammerhead's comment, more people should be doing their own breeding, crossing Indicas and Sativas. That was how all the good stuff was created in the first place. The ideal is usually an Indica type plant for indoors with a Sativa high. There's a lot of pure bred lines of both types available, a lot of exotic landrace stuff coming out of the woodwork. More now then any time I can remember. It's a great opportunity to create fresh lines that really our something new.

 

[bs0]

While I myself share the sentiment of walking into a dispensary or pot shop and rolling my eyes at the myriad of gimmicky and trendy/flashy names that have ingratiated the market, I feel like the OP is coming off as a bit pretentious as to be so dismissive of genetics that quite frankly have become cornerstones of the breeding community, some dating back many years.
It is 2020, after all.
Sour Diesel has been around for a long time.

There are a multitude of obvious reasons that most of us simply cannot grow pure sativas from seed; space, time, location, resources, skill, etc. I like and respect Ace and will one day grow out the pack of Golden Tiger that has been collecting dust these past few years. Unfortunately the wait will continue, as the task of simply sexing an entire pack of 14+ week sativas in my current living situation is outright impossible.

As some have pointed out, subjectivity is a driving force in selecting the strains and breeders we choose to grow and support.
I love growing and smoking Chem 4.
Some do not.
I don't see the appeal of Cookies.
Many love it.

What I do think we can agree on, as growers, is the alarming amount of homogoneity in the dispensaries driven by trends, marketing and an insanely high demand.
In my area, It's hard to find a pure skunk #1 in a dispensary these days. Or an Original Haze. Or just plain ol Sour Deisel. In fact, I can safely attest to the fact that they don't exist where I live, which is saturated with potshops. Everything is an amalgamation of Gorrilla Cake Cookies Blue MAC Kush etc. from the same few mega-producers/farms who are churning out metric tons of mid-grade product.
There are still exceptions of course, but for how long?
Here in Oregon, the pot farms are expanding and the dispensaries are multiplying and many have several locations across the state and carry quite a bit of political clout. Compounding with laws that encourage the economic benefits of buying taxable and regulated marijuana as opposed to growing it (only four plants per household), it appears the writing is on the wall. In the future we'll be buying clones at Fred Meyer that have been shipped in on pallets from Monrovia.

The mass commercialization and industrialization of cannabis is well under way.

I guess this rant pertains to the fact that we shouldn't be so dismissive on older cuts that we may never see in dispensaries in the near to distant future. Treasure our seeds and pass on landrace and older elite cuts to our friends, be it Sour Deisel, GG#4, or Oldtimers Haze, because one day they may be lost and replicated only in name.

Here here. Going around dismissing the literal foundation of modern breeding serves nobody. If we lose these lines we all suffer.

This whole thread is a bit of silliness, there's something different for everyone. "If everyone was into the same thing, everyone would have been chasing after your grandma".

 

[Hammerhead]

If we looked at whats offered today very few have any Sat/haze in the mix. Its like 90% are cookies/gelato/dolato/sherb/fruity in some way. The other 10% is the kush/gas/chem stuff. Its all so muddy/Boring for me. Sure there's many that like them. I'm sure there good in there way. IMO we have to add sat genetics back into the gene pool to reacquire those lost lines we called the best. They would obliterate what we call good today. I think those that grew up and got to experience those genetics will produce the best lines. If you never experienced what we've lost you won't know how good it was. Breeding is not what it use to be. Breeding is a lost art.

 

[mexweed]

how about JJ's nigerian silk work, nigerian silk(nigerian silkXnl5haze) and that X original haze, he mentions icmag where he got the nl5haze, talks about different chems and how he prefers chem D to sour

https://hightimes.com/news/the-high-times-interview-top-dawg-seeds/

 

[low_and_slow]

You smoke too much to often lots of us have that problem I grew Malawi , Malawi x Panama golden tiger none were strong like the description I think dubi doesn't smoke too much or too often.
We're too pickled with thc to truly enjoy weed even the best plants suck in some way like tolerance build up
I like to smoke all day every day I just can never get high enough literally all day everyday
What most people smoke in a day I smoke for breakfast im not bragging I'm just saying we smoke too often that's the main reason why it's not so satisfying especially when smoking all the rejected plants that are for sale because if it's good your keeping it for yourself why? Most weed out their sucks and it's because people are selecting against the trippy effects
Everyone selects warm euphoria or sleepy and high thc of these booring type highs they don't like paranoid tripping vasoconstricting weeds.... those are my bread and butter but even sativas suck sometimes
I always tell people who are beginning to smoke to try and get as high as they can now because later you won't be able to reach the same dimensions I think that's the main reason why some cultures make and smoke hash because the plants can't get you high enough when you smoke all day every day for years

Weeds way too expensive so people smoke small amounts and keep their tolerance low so anything that's a bit better is way better for the light tokers so they think their weed is good when it's just average or super weak for heavy smokers literally all day every day smokers that probably sleepwalk to smoke a joint or three at night
I have learned my lesson though papers are banned and I'm turning stingy as hell because I hate running out ......what was this thread about?

Awesome response and so true. To bring the analogy over to wine, they all end up tasting like grape juice when you're on your fifth bottle of the day by lunch.

I found, curiously, that my THC experiences reset after a DMT breakthrough, to the point where I then had a high I would describe as superior to my first-ever.

 

[therevverend]

how about JJ's nigerian silk work, nigerian silk(nigerian silkXnl5haze) and that X original haze, he mentions icmag where he got the nl5haze, talks about different chems and how he prefers chem D to sour

I've tried the Nigerian done by Kiona, it's interesting stuff. Sort of a 'businessman's acid trip'. You're really high for about ten minutes then sober. Another interesting aspect is that there's no body high, none at all. Probably why you feel so sober once the initial rush wears off. It was quite tasty. I enjoyed it but it would get rough if it was the only smoke you had.

 

[growhigh1233]

Hey growhigh1233. You can find the exactly "desfran" pheno in a single cannabiogen 5fem pack, and +4 amazing phenos. Because of pirates like dutch, kaiki (charly garcia) from cannabiogen stopped making seeds, great breeder. And btw, what others "seedmakers" are doing with their peyote purple is a great shame.



Hey hempy!
sadly it is not so easy. Each zone of Mexico has its distributor. In addition, the target of the hotel resorts are foreign tourism, not national.
My first years in Mexico i traveled a bit around the republic, and without a doubt the best herbs, in the mountains of Veracruz and mountains of Guerrero, very very good quality, despite the bad looking due the poor care, potent stuff. In all other states, in my experience, it is very difficult to find decent smoke.

ohh i aint tried the cannabiogen destroyer fems..........have ran the regular and got some beautiful phenos ...............but no flavor or scent ..................i got the desfran as a freebie along with 'freddys best' ...................both impressed immensely

i would tho advise people to support the original breeder ......esp if the same pheno easy to find