If you use Too Much Lime - How do you Repair the Soil ?

[VortexPower420]

Simple answer to this all. Better compost!!!!

pH in organics is a myth. Not a accurate judge and if your doing it right it will vary according the microbes present.

Humus solves most problems and the microbes will fix the rest. That tiny amount of lime is not going to do anything.

Side note and not trying to be a dick ( even thought I have been known to be) the thought of using coco cola to adjust pH is just dumb. All thoes additives, corn syrup, yada yada yada, shit is gross. You want phosphoric acid go for the yellow GH bottle it is pure. Although never never use this in a living soil. You will cause genocide.

 

[Mikell]

Definitely not a myth, just not as important as in conventional nutrient regimes.

What's better compost have to do with a complete lack of substrate or aeration?

Go add a cup or two of dolomite or agricultural lime to each of your plants. Water in well. Wait a few days, then tell us how pH doesn't matter.

 

[Floridian]

If this has been said I'm sorry its kind of obvious,just transplant to a different container using the correct amount of dolomite

 

[St. Phatty]

If this has been said I'm sorry its kind of obvious,just transplant to a different container using the correct amount of dolomite

Actually that's what I did.

Bought some Foxfarm Ocean Forest, sort of a base-line soil, great to fall back on something you know works.

I'm slowly carrying the pots that didn't work out to the soil mixing area in the side yard.

My guess is, time and rain will temper the possible OD of lime.


For starting seedlings (transplanting seedlings in peat pots into something resembling soil) I am using Miracle Grow Garden Soil.

Side-stepping their association with Evil Incarnate Monsanto, I am relying partly on watching my neighbor grow Cannabis this summer. I would say his plants were maximally healthy from seedling all the way to flowering - and he used Miracle Grow Garden Soil.

Have any of you used the Foxfarm Light for starting seedlings in ?

 

[Ratzilla]

Actually that's what I did.

Bought some Foxfarm Ocean Forest,

For starting seedlings (transplanting seedlings in peat pots into something resembling soil) I am using Miracle Grow Garden Soil.



Have any of you used the Foxfarm Light for starting seedlings in ?

Fox farm ocean forest is considered to hot for seedlings by many.

Heh heh heh Don't you know Miracle grow has a bad name by many.

Foxfarm light warrior is some of the best stuff to germinate seeds in.
It is totally devoid of any fertilizer on its own.

Starting babies in light warrior then after a week you put them into the Ocean forest should work for you.

I believe that the light warrior says on the bag to feed the babies after a week.
Myself I'll put some worm castings maybe a TBLSP into a 16 oz cup of light warrior for a week-ten days before placing my babies into my fortified base mix.

I use the cotyledons (seed leaves)as a way of knowing when the babies want food.
When the cotyledons begin to fade is a signal of them wanting to be fed.
Keep the feeding on the mild side. Remember they are babies.
Ratz

 

[Coba]

St Phatty,

Basically it was -
8 gallons "premium compost" from the local compost place.
1 gallon compost from a hot composting effort in Sonoma county, really good dirt, though very rich
1/4 cup bone meal
1/4 cup bat guano, high P
1/4 cup lime
1 gallon primo dirt from area of front yard that plants love to grow in, very fertile
2 gallons from sandy loam area of front yard

9 gallons of compost mixed with 3 gallons of "primo" yard dirt, High P bat guano, Bone meal and Lime.
the ratios look off from what I can tell. You should flip it to be 9 gallons of primo yard dirt and 3 gallons of rich compost. I would also keep handy some all purpose fertilizer stuff, at least something, or a couple somethings with a more rounded nutrient profile than just the bone meal and high P bat guano. Maybe some alfalfa meal and fish meal.

A good seed starting mix is 3 parts SPM and 1 part EWC both finely screened. that's it.

 

[VortexPower420]

Coba and his reading skills. I think that some of us missed that the actual mix substrate wise is all off. No peat? No areation ( and surely not enough Ca to floculate the potential clay in the yard dirt). This whole mix is a disaster from purley a areation perspective. Its all compost. I bet the havr wet feet

Then you add in all the P and little else. The lime in there is not your pro lem. At all. Using Dolomite should also be thought about. There are way better Ca sources, gypsum, hical lime, oyster shell flour.....

Forget about pH. NOT you problem.

Side note. Fox farm is also owned by Monsanto. Just saying. You want to not gobble the man's nob you havetoale your own soil.

 

[youngsta]

St Phatty,



9 gallons of compost mixed with 3 gallons of "primo" yard dirt, High P bat guano, Bone meal and Lime.
the ratios look off from what I can tell. You should flip it to be 9 gallons of primo yard dirt and 3 gallons of rich compost. I would also keep handy some all purpose fertilizer stuff, at least something, or a couple somethings with a more rounded nutrient profile than just the bone meal and high P bat guano. Maybe some alfalfa meal and fish meal.

A good seed starting mix is 3 parts SPM and 1 part EWC both finely screened. that's it.

I dont mean to insult everyone else, but stick with this advice from coba. Your mix sounds awesome as a top dressing for flowering, but it's essentially still a batch of strong compost, not a growing medium.

I would add an equal amount of good unamended soil, and a cup of rabbit food (alfalfa) then use it when you need to up-pot into flower.

 

[Mikell]

You two just clued in...

Reread first page. This has been mentioned at least twice before.

My brain hurts. Time for "work".

 

[VortexPower420]

I guess im just not as quick as you mikell

God damn stoners...

I was never good at reading things, including pH meters

 

[Mikell]

No worries, I've a dick way of speaking. We all managed to miss that he'd repotted

 

[St. Phatty]

I can dig it.

More fiber, as in drainage.

Sand
Vermiculite
Perlite
Peat
... those kinds of things.

 

[Coba]

St. Phatty,
So, I'm under the impression that your primo yard dirt is your main "attraction". I really like this approach and if so, I think that it needs to remain the staple in your soil building conquest here. And, I want to help you get it to where it needs to be... I wouldn't think about adding any more sand. sand is good for aggregate but it brings nothing to the table besides aluminum and silica and I'm sure you already have enough alumino-silicate sand in your front yard already. Sand also has little to no CEC either.

Vermiculite, Perlite ... aggregate with less value than sand.

Sphagnum Peat Moss, great suggestion. Great soil substitute. Great CEC, brings OM to the table along with microbes from the bog... here's the thing, I think you already have enough OM, microbes and CEC in the compost component to completely ignore SPM atm.

Speaking of your compost, bark fines are high in lignin, lignin is difficult to digest by most creatures besides fungus... So, IMO It's safe to say that you have a high fungal compost which equals low pH. also, keep in mind root rot is a fungus, and one of the few creatures that can devour lignin. so, sowing seeds directly into a high fungal compost might not get good results.

So, then what to add to your dirt to make it perform like a big soil?

a few of my suggestions... charged bio-char, black-grey pumice rock, red lava rock, bentonite, alfalfa, fish meal, leaf litter and most important, time...

Time to build the bacterial component that will adjust the pH for you. Time to allow the fungal component to grow the aggregate connective tissue hyphen, or whatever they do, that creates the pathways for water to channel through and also bind the dirt together as a whole. To me that is the key to soil porosity.

I'm sorry that I cannot comment about the Miracle Grow garden soil... 2 years ago mentioning Miracle Grow anything in the Organic Soil forum would have been enough flame bait to roast a wild hog. You would have gotten suggestions like... "You might want to try the Beginner's forum for any in-depth Miracle Grow cannabis cultivation conversation". Anyways that belligerent element has moved on. But, it really must have been bad dirt if you decided after 7 years of growing organic to go back to Miracle Grow.

 

[St. Phatty]

But, it really must have been bad dirt if you decided after 7 years of growing organic to go back to Miracle Grow.

I think I was spoiled by the organic dirt I had access to in Sonoma County.

It "just worked", and I didn't have to think about the details.

I would mix in some Jamaican Bat Guano and think "I'm growing organic now, man !"


But now I have to adapt to new soil.

In taking out the organic soil that the plants rejected, a title for a new thread came to mind, "Is your Supposedly Organic Soil more like Muck or Mud ?" ... because, that's what it was like, when wet.


Real good to know about lignin & fungus !

I was surprised about the Miracle Grow Garden Soil too. I gave my neighbor some Candyland x Apollo 11 seeds that I made (I think those plants might have been in FFOF), after he commented that he and his girlfriend liked that bud "The most" out of some buds they took on a road trip.

He grew them out like a champ - while I was struggling with my mis-mixed attempted-organic soil.

So I copied his technique. He was using peat-pots for sprouting, going into the MG Garden Soil.

He actually flowered in MG Garden Soil too. With impressive results. If it could be a friendly competition, I would enjoy seeing him compete with other outdoor growers (he has a lot of outdoor grow experience). I was trained to think "Miracle Grow - BAD", then I see him doing Amazing Things with MG Garden Soil.

I am still imitating his seedling technique, but flowering (cross my fingers ?) in straight up FFOF (nothing added).

Besides the "Sandy Soil" and "Rich Soil" areas of the front yard, I also have an outdoor redworm culture that I have been cultivating for about 3 years. Also, some areas that are very rich in a "mulch-y" way - which just got their seasonal dump of oak leaves. I figure if I dig under the oak trees, the de-composed oak leaves have some nute. value for Cannabis plants.

 

[Coba]

"the organic dirt I had access to in Sonoma County."
probably spoil anyone right. that dirt is supposed to be world-class good dirt.

 

[St. Phatty]

"the organic dirt I had access to in Sonoma County."
probably spoil anyone right. that dirt is supposed to be world-class good dirt.

I belonged to a community garden.

I got in the habit of making a compost pile each year around Thanksgiving.

It would heat up a bit (130 F) then back off and sit around 80 degrees for the winter.

The garden manager had a look-the-other-way deal with one of her buddies, who ran a tree removal service. They would dump piles of wood chips. When it rained, some of the piles would start SERIOUSLY steaming.

That was one feedstock.

Plus one year I was curious if adding feedstock with more chemical energy (sugar & starch) would result in a higher temperature.

So I added -
* fruit peels (from the smoothie place)
* bags of cheap potatoes
* bags of orange seeds which I took from a local office park. They have some kind of ornamental plant that was covered with orange seeds. So I went it and cut about a 100 pounds.

etc. (steer manure, flowers from a landscaping neighbor, etc.)

It didn't get any hotter (so much for that theory) but when I went to check on it in February

Redworms EVERYWHERE - they loved the big brunch.

And the cannabis plants loved it. (I sold to a med. dispensary in Santa Rosa.)

Somehow the lack of drainage materials worked out OK - in that case.

 

[Mikell]

There are whole swathes of gardening lore dedicated to using wood refuse, from Strout to hugelkulture to pine wood chips.

The wood itself is water storage and aerator, varying on decomposition, type of wood, particle/piece size, etc.

We tend towards nursery style mixes for production, but that's not to say there aren't a dozen other ways to crack the egg.

 

[Coba]

that's one thing I would never put in my compost again... raw potato scraps. seems like even a millimeter squared chunk will sprout a new plant. OK, maybe two things... whole tomatoes. forget it... seems like tomato seeds can survive hot compost and in the spring I get tomato sprouts everywhere. I mean everywhere...

the heat can be manipulated by the C:N ratio and by the introduction of compost-specific beneficial microorganisms.

drainage amendments annoy me. I'm not saying they're evil or anything... just that ok, perlite and vermiculite why? rice hulls just compost away, and pumice rock and lava rock are a PITA if you can't find the smaller meshed pieces. And, truthfully when have you ever dug into a nice section of seemingly fertile yard dirt to find 1/2 inch pieces of aeration amendments throughout.

Fungal hyphae is key to drainage in the natural world imo. they give the soil porosity while holding it in place. I can physically see and feel a difference between freshly filled containers of dirt and containers that have had dirt in them for a few months. the muddy muck is common at first. but, with time (given the right inoculation medium eg fungal compost, leaf mold) the fungus hyphen will web together all the loose particles of dirt. I can call it spongy instead of mucky after a few months.

 

[milkyjoe]

Like walking across a mattress...that is what you want

 

[Mikell]

And, truthfully when have you ever dug into a nice section of seemingly fertile yard dirt to find 1/2 inch pieces of aeration amendments throughout.

All the time if you consider the forest my backyard. Decomposing wood, bark, leaves, etc, everywhere. There is an unsettling lack of plastic or fabric pots. I'm not so hot on the scarcity of regular irrigation out there either.