Heh. Looks like I hit a nerve. You've gone on about being a great grower of that incomparable California OG since you hit this board.
I've never grown OG. Never claimed to.
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Heh. Looks like I hit a nerve. You've gone on about being a great grower of that incomparable California OG since you hit this board.
You've made a lot of other empty assertions, as well, all whining about how CO legalization wasn't crafted just for you.
Me? I'm a potzer of a grower. I'm learning.
This is all a theory on your part
, almost conspiracy like that has yet and probably will not play out.
Well I have grown Og hybrids budtang
Higher prices from limited sources isn't crafted for consumers, either. Average Joe smoker is getting fucked over as much as I am.
The primary benefactors appear to be wealthy investors.
What's really funny is that the Colorado market consist of 40% black market. Yet, you said Colorado voters don't want the black market and that's why these policies exist. These same voters who voted to get rid of black market are now turning around buying 40% of their weed from the black market they voted to eliminate. You're saying,"Colorado voters don't want black market residential growers." Then, why are they buying 40% of their weed from them?
I can tell by your untrained, heat stressed, malnourished plants. Why an inexperienced hobby grower like you has taken to a debate on the future of the cannabis industry is beyond me. I don't get it.
Fuckin A...who'd a ever thunk that a washed up loser who had one grow and got popped doin it would win the debate?
What does it matter?
Expect $20 eighths a year from now, all taxes included. Capitalism in action, cuttin' each others' throats for market share. Actual price of production for the big boys is quite low.
Look at that! Inspected by the State of CO for purity & potency.
Probably doesn't sound like any dope deal you ever did, huh? Why would anybody buy from unreliable arrogant flakes? Cuz they need a sleazy thrill, or what?
So is the quality. Hence, the $20/eighths price tag. You can only charge so much for garbage.
The market will judge what's garbage & what isn't, not you.
You mean like it currently is being "inspected for purity?" I think the New York Times tested Colorado retail weed and found "60% covered in pesticides."
You're not exactly blowing us away.
Perhaps you'll link that piece from the NYT so we can verify that quote. Probably not. I'm sure that fast buck basement growers would never use the wrong stuff, anyway. Silly me. They're only in it for the joy they get in their hearts, after all.
We're just getting going at this, but it's def in the works-
http://blog.mpp.org/research/states-require-testing-marijuana-for-safety-potency/07192013/
I really like that "simply for adult use" part. Puts a whole different light on it. It's like, honest, man, a real mind blower for people who never could act that way.
Because the quality is exponential better when purchasing from a small scale grower who pays attention to detail versus a commercial operation who pays an hourly employee to do the bare minimum.
Naked assertion of arrogant self promotion. I don't think you understand exponents, either.
Your inexperience shows every time you talk about commercial weed vs. craft grown weed. "The big boys can do it cheaper. Cheaper I say. CHEAPER!!!!!!" Price isn't the only factor in the equation. That's why I pay twice as much for California OG than I do for Colorado commercial weed.
It's not going to change the game in Colorado to have 300 mid-grade commercial growers increase 3,000 mid-grade commercial growers. Until you see top shelf in mass quantity you won't see prices change much in the grand scheme. You can sell the mid-grade for as little as you want. It doesn't affect the top shelf prices.glgl
Growers have to compete at the level of quality, too. If you need to get more money for your weight, you'll need a superior product. If you can't do it you'll go broke. Retailers will buy from the other guy.
As you say, there's always room at the top, and the truth is that it's mostly in the genes, wannabee poseurs aside. It's where growers want to be, particularly when the mid grade market is saturated. Big outfits can afford to hire agricultural professionals to dial it in real nice. Scientists. Meticulous record keeping, ongoing testing & development. Market research. Tester panels. Highly controlled drying & curing. Not you & your buds sittin' around the living room jerking each other off.
It's about getting ready for the big time, when it goes national.
Once we beat the price down, for all grades, only those providing honest value will prosper. And, hey, if it's not good enough, people will readily turn to dry sift & concentrates at a good price. They'll prefer them in many cases. Dry sift & bubble at the high end, shatter, wax& oil for the masses. Even so-so weed makes dandy wax.
Meanwhile, personal growing thrives, hassle free. I only pay attention to that stuff if I want to. I'm perfectly content to let the big boys punch it out at that level, see how it works out according to market principles. Oh, wait, you don't understand basic market principles, seem to think that what you think you know from the black/grey market carries over. It doesn't. We've never had enough product. Rather shortly, we'll have more than enough. Plot that against a near vertical demand curve. CO will consume only just so much weed, regardless of how much is available. Use this graphic-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
Use Figure 5. Make the demand curve, D, near vertical. Move the supply curve, S, to the right. a lot. What happens to the price?
This isn't even ECON 101- it's advanced middle school.
The market will judge what's garbage & what isn't, not you.
I'm sure that fast buck basement growers would never use the wrong stuff, anyway. Silly me.
Naked assertion of arrogant self promotion. I don't think you understand exponents, either.
Big outfits can afford to hire agricultural professionals to dial it in real nice. Scientists.
Meticulous record keeping, ongoing testing & development. Market research. Tester panels. Highly controlled drying & curing. Not you & your buds sittin' around the living room jerking each other off.
Once we beat the price down, for all grades
And, hey, if it's not good enough, people will readily turn to dry sift & concentrates at a good price.
They'll prefer them in many cases. Dry sift & bubble at the high end, shatter, wax& oil for the masses. Even so-so weed makes dandy wax.
Oh, wait, you don't understand basic market principles, seem to think that what you think you know from the black/grey market carries over. It doesn't.
We've never had enough product. Rather shortly, we'll have more than enough.
Plot that against a near vertical demand curve. CO will consume only just so much weed, regardless of how much is available. Use this graphic-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
Use Figure 5. Make the demand curve, D, near vertical. Move the supply curve, S, to the right. a lot. What happens to the price?
This isn't even ECON 101- it's advanced middle school.
As you say, there's always room at the top, and the truth is that it's mostly in the genes
It already has. Remember? 40% of the weed sold in Colorado is on the black market because all the shit in the legal market sucked ass.
Kewl. A self promotional puff piece about a CO canna lab operator who talking about the grow houses in the MMJ scene that she's seen some time in the past. Feb 2013, prior to the rules currently in force for retail outfits. They listened to people like her as they made the new rules. Imagine that.I never said they wouldn't. This notion you have that commercial operations don't is fiction, though. In fact, commercial operations in Colorado have guidelines that allow for the use of pesticides.
"I've seen stuff in grow houses – oh my God, you don't even want to know about," said Genifer Murray, the owner of CannLabs, a Denver lab that tests marijuana. She said she has seen cans of bug spray next to marijuana, plants covered with powdery mildew and lax sanitation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/marijuana-legalization-ra_n_2670916.html
You reference the discarded vertical integration model of limited supply, which has no bearing on the retail market shaping up. As of Oct 1, retailers need grow nothing.Ill informed skepticism from an amateur who grows 6 plants.
You don't think these operations currently in existence that are producing mid-grade don't have scientist and experts with horticultural degrees? I know for a fact they do. I've read articles about these dispensaries employing such "experts." That's the reason they have such low quality product. Because, these "scientist" crunch the numbers and realize there is more $$$$$$ in large operations growing mid-grade in high quantity then there is in growing top shelf in low quantity.
No amount of expertise will ever change that fact for large operations. Grow low quality and survive in the commercial weed realm. Try to move up in quality by sacrificing quantity and the operation fails and becomes less profitable.
Twirling the plants around in circles produces better bud? Really? Is that clockwise or counter clockwise? Like it matters. puh-leeze.It doesn't matter how much of an expert a grower is in horticulture. When you have 500 lights to tend to it's impossible to pay attention to the level of detail a small scale grower pays. Is that horticultural biologist going to go into the warehouse 3 times a day and rotate his plants around so that each part of each plant gets an equal amount of light under each one of those 500 lights? No, they're not. They literally don't have the time to do that throughout the course of a day. They'll just plant their plants in DWC setups and leave them stationary. This is the kind of attention to detail a smaller grower will be able to pay that larger growers don't have the time for. These are minor details, either. They're the kind of details that separate mid-grade from top shelf. Is the hourly employee going to give a fuck about paying attention to that kind of detail when he makes the same amount of money either way? No, they're not. They're going to do the bare minimum like hourly shitpaid employees do in any line of work.
Yep. Im sure you know more about it than multi millionaire venture capitalists & outfits like Riverrock. The scale is so large that it takes capital, not what a sub $100K professional can swing. Top money for degreed agriculturalists is ~$90K.These large operations have business models that simply aren't possible to grow high quality cannabis under. If you knew more about what's required to grow high quality cannabis (which you clearly don't) you would understand that. You can't run a high quality cannabis production operation by paying people. It just doesn't work like that. Even if you do find a horticulturalist....how long do you think it is before that expert leaves your company and starts his own operation where all the profits go into his pocket? How much are these going to pay a horticultural biologist? Anything less than 100% will motivate them to take their expertise elsewhere. This is why "Big Cannabis" is a myth that will never transpire.
They'll just create a different market, like I said. Dry sift & bubble at the top, bud through the middle, shatter & wax at the bottom. They'll blend it all together into new products of all descriptions if they want. People will buy them because those products deliver what they want. Or not. In which case somebody else will.Again, do you think none of this is going on in Colorado right now? All of it is and still the Colorado market is comprised entirely of mid-grade.
You don't have any proof that large operations can produce high quality other than this repetitive claim that they can. The only weed posted on these threads from Colorado has been mid-grade and it was presented has top shelf. Unless, you have examples that have yet to be posted.
It's an opinion.lulz
You don't even have a single large operations that can produce high grade. Yet, you believe the market will be flooded with those operations? This shit is too funny. The reason California's weed is so much better is because of residential growers being allowed into the market.
Until you allow residential growers into the market you won't have high grade, top shelf weed. It's a fact.
They're a viable choice for people who want stronger stuff. They'll go that way if the price is right. In CA, it's not. Supply constrained market, remember?Not likely.
It didn't happen in California. Top shelf is still popular along with the extracts. I don't see why you think it will happen nationwide when the documented markets we have available to observe don't reflect that at all.
California has been in this game waaaaaaaaay longer than Colorado and the trends don't reflect what you're saying at all. California has 38 million people who still want high quality weed. You're saying a non-existent trend in Colorado's small 5 million person market will be more of an accurate depiction of nationwide sales?
The only reason concentrates are as popular as they are in Colorado is because of the fact that the weed sucks so bad.
As you've shown rather well, growing weed doesn't mean you understand market dynamics at all. It's like a bootlegger claiming to know all about the whiskey business.Did the guy who has no more experience than growing 6 plants tell me that my experience growing thousands doesn't apply? Tell me "6 plant master." Inform us with all your infinite wisdom on the industry.
I'm sure you've learned so much in growing 6 plants at a time in a closet in the weakest weed market in the world.
And a lot of no-talent bums, I'm sure. Guys proven to grow toenail fungus.You've had plenty of product. It's just that it's all overpriced garbage. That's why people went to the black market for a better product. The black market, that people are turning to, isn't occupied by large scale commercial growers. It's occupied by residential growers with talent.
Mere assertion. It's called motivated reasoningNo amount of mid-grade commercial operations are going to eliminate the demand for high quality residential operations. Now, if these commercial operations can step up there game, then that's another story. However, there is no evidence that they can at this point. Just claims.
That's like the saying the price drop of McCormick Vodka will effect Grey Goose.
All of the figures in that model apply to mid-grade weed. Not top shelf. Would you care to post a model that actually focuses on the price of top shelf weed?glgl
Seriously? Genes? You have all the same genetics in Colorado and you're producing nothing, but crap in your retail market. All of your OG is pure crap in Colorado. This is because of your growing methods that only allow for commercial operations. Not genetics.
The reason the weed is better in California is because the market allows for smaller growers, who pay far more attention to detail, to participate. It has nothing to do with genes. It's the difference in growing methods causing the discrepancy in quality between California and Colorado. Differences that are the product of different regulations. Large scale commercial operations can't compete with smaller residential craft growers on quality.
They never have and they never will.
Funn you'd say that, given that the best guess is more like 6%.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/colorado-marijuana-black-market_n_5669302.html
Kewl. A self promotional puff piece about a CO canna lab operator who talking about the grow houses in the MMJ scene that she's seen some time in the past. Feb 2013, prior to the rules currently in force for retail outfits. They listened to people like her as they made the new rules. Imagine that.
You reference the discarded vertical integration model of limited supply, which has no bearing on the retail market shaping up. As of Oct 1, retailers need grow nothing.
Twirling the plants around in circles produces better bud? Really? Is that clockwise or counter clockwise? Like it matters. puh-leeze.
Yep. Im sure you know more about it than multi millionaire venture capitalists & outfits like Riverrock. The scale is so large that it takes capital, not what a sub $100K professional can swing. Top money for degreed agriculturalists is ~$90K.
http://work.chron.com/salaries-horticulturists-3717.html
They'll just create a different market, like I said. Dry sift & bubble at the top, bud through the middle, shatter & wax at the bottom. They'll blend it all together into new products of all descriptions if they want. People will buy them because those products deliver what they want. Or not. In which case somebody else will.
They're a viable choice for people who want stronger stuff. They'll go that way if the price is right. In CA, it's not. Supply constrained market, remember?
When the price of the cheap stuff goes down, it drags down the price in the next tier & so on.
As I've pointed out, top shelf isn't just about weed. It's about the whole range of canna products. People will readily alter their choices when the price is right.