If you live in a Legal Cannabis State and are unhappy post here!

[Jhhnn]

Even that article says the figures are immeasurable. However, it's safe to assume that 6% is total fucking bullshit. There's not way only 6% is black market.


Kewl. A self promotional puff piece about a CO canna lab operator who talking about the grow houses in the MMJ scene that she's seen some time in the past. Feb 2013, prior to the rules currently in force for retail outfits. They listened to people like her as they made the new rules. Imagine that.

Okay. This is more recent. So, testing for pesticides isn't even going into effect until October 1st.

Testing for the safety of pot products—including the presence of mold, pesticides, and metals—will be required starting on Oct. 1

http://www.denverijournal.com/article.php?id=10379



That's irrelevant. The growers they're purchasing from are growing in large commercial operations in the same conditions with the same expenses that effect quality.

Unless you have residential craft growers in your market the quality of Colorado retail weed will not get any better by increasing the number of mid-grade commercial operations. You'll simply have a larger selection of different strains in the mid-grade category, but no top shelf in retail stores.





The distance from the bulb is crucial, newbie. This is why you should top and train your plants for an even canopy. Which, I can tell you don't know anything about just from looking at your setup. Also, don't use plastic pots. Use Smart Pots. Nobody uses plastic anymore. There are chemicals in plastic pots that are harmful to the plant.

If you don't keep rotating the plants and exposing the buds to an equal amount of lumens you get wispy/leafy buds with tiny calyxes that don't fill in as much. Like the kind you see consistently from Colorado weed grown in commercial facilities. Facilities where they don't pay attention to this kind of detail.



Are you saying $90K is going to motivate a horticulturalist to stay with the company? They'll be out of there in less than 5 years with $90K a year. If you pay a horticulturalist $200K/year they'll walk out on you sooner because a warehouse space is only $300,000 in Denver and can yield far more than $200K/year in profit for the horticulturalist.

What aspect of this scenario is beneficial for wealthy investors looking to be involved in this industry for decades to come? It all spells disaster for them.




It didn't happen in Cali, where the supply is BIGGER than Colorado.




I remember you saying that California ships their excess out of state. That's what I remember. How can a supply constrained state have "excess" product?

California isn't supply constrained. The supply in Cali is far superior to Colorado. So, what are you talking about? I get the impression that you've been proven wrong, so you claim Cali is "supply constrained" because it's the only example we have to compare the market to and it just so happen this example doesn't back up your argument.

Hence, this "supply constrained" bullshit. If trends in Cali supported your argument you wouldn't be making up this bullshit about Cali being "supply constrained."




Price of Colorado weed= $175/oz

Price of California weed=$300/oz

Nope. The cheap weed didn't effect the market in California. You're claiming it will effect the entire nation when it isn't even effecting another weed state.



For the average smoker, yes. The price is a big deal.

For the connoisseur, no. The price is irrelevant. You could lower Colorado weed to $20/oz. I'll still take the Cali OG at $300/oz. The prices of low quality weed don't have any effect on high quality weed. They never have and they never will.

When you have limited supplies of top shelf, the demand dictates the price of the top shelf. Not the price of mid-grade. If one consumer is willing to pay $250 and another is willing to pay $300. The guy willing to pay $300 is going to get the product and dictate the price.

It's the same way for dispensaries. One dispensary is willing to pay $2,500/lb for the top shelf. Another is willing to outbid that dispensary and pay the grower $3,000/lb. Whoever bids more gets the product. I don't see why you think shitty weed that sells for $1,000/lb will change that process just because it sells for 30% of the price of the good stuff.

Connoisseurs, historically, aren't bargain shoppers in case you haven't noticed.

Heh. They're also a largely insignificant market segment. Or are you trying to say that high end consumers don't smoke dry sift? full melt bubble? Really?

Think industrial machinery. Think of different stocks set aside, held in reserve to create blended products of consistent high quality- aroma, taste, potency. Like blended Scotch.

You really have no idea where this is all going, do you? CO growers & processors are warming up for the big time. CA producers are clinging to the past.

 

[budtang]

^^^^^^

It didn't happen in California. Top shelf is still popular along with the extracts.

 

[budtang]

Heh. They're also a largely insignificant market segment.

It doesn't matter how small of a percentage of the market they represent. They're the only percentage of the market that will matter when pricing top shelf weed, specifically.

It just doesn't matter if you have $20/oz that are easily available. There are always going to be 2 buyers who get into a bidding war over rare top shelf weed and that will jack the price up. Whether those buyers are individuals, or dispensaries, there are always going to be people willing to pay more for quality. Further more, there are always going to be people willing to pay more than the next guy in order to motivate a grower to sell to them.

That's how the weed market works. That's how it's always worked and how it will always be no matter how legalization works.

 

[budtang]

Think industrial machinery. Think of different stocks set aside, held in reserve to create blended products of consistent high quality- aroma, taste, potency. Like blended Scotch.

I wouldn't want some crap that's been sitting around in "reserve." This isn't wine. This shit doesn't get better with age. It does to a certain extent, but it's starts to degrade in quality much faster than wine and Scotch. You're talking months versus years.

Not to mention, who would want to smoke a blended product containing a bunch of highly potent extracts when they're about to go to a complex day at work in the morning. I don't think Cheech and Chong would incorporate something that potent into their daily routine. Much less, Joe Smoker.

Now, a bowl of OG on the other hand...

 

[monsoon]

Yup..that OG is all the rage. You get higher if they call it OG..or Kush. Everyone knows that.

Maybe, since yer such an expert, you can enlighten us more on this "OG"....like tell us the story of where it came from and how it got it's name...

we've never seen it here in CO. Never seen the Chem line here either. After the OG story can you tell us about Chemdog? (all of the experts know this one)

Thankfully nobody ever femmed or S-1'd any of those or made hybrids and none of those hybrids were ever spread around outside Cali. Certainly not the REAL ones. Everyone knows that the elite cuts loose potency when they cross state lines...and how ILLEGAL that is. The FEDS know too...remember? (check your gardens, guys, the Feds may already be sitting in there, waiting to bust you)

No blends or concentrates in the AM? No bubblehash or hash whips rolled into fattys? cus ya get too high? LOFL. Fuckin lightweight. Weaksauce all around.

 

[Jellyfish]

Jhhnn and budtang need to start a new thread. Or get a room.

 

[budtang]

we've never seen it here in CO. Never seen the Chem line here either. After the OG story can you tell us about Chemdog? (all of the experts know this one)

Thankfully nobody ever femmed or S-1'd any of those or made hybrids and none of those hybrids were ever spread around outside Cali. Certainly not the REAL ones. Everyone knows that the elite cuts loose potency when they cross state lines...and how ILLEGAL that is. The FEDS know too...remember? (check your gardens, guys, the Feds may already be sitting in there, waiting to bust you)

I've already stated that Colorado has all the same genetics, but not on the retail side.

Even if you have the cuts in Colorado... you don't have growers on the retail side who can grow them properly because they're all large scale grow operations that lack quality control and proper growing methods. When you take elite cuts and stick em in warehouses full of DWC buckets it fucks up the quality. They're using commercial hydroponic methods. You don't get top shelf in hydroponic setups.

Do you have any examples of top shelf OG in Colorado? I know I haven't seen any. You don't even see it in photos on dispensary websites. You see some version of OG, Chem, etc. , but it's all pale in comparison to shit that's standard in the California market. The best OG I've ever seen from Colorado barely meets passable standards of OG from Cali. To the point where it's disappointing and if that's the case, then it's not top shelf OG.

No blends or concentrates in the AM? No bubblehash or hash whips rolled into fattys? cus ya get too high? LOFL. Fuckin lightweight. Weaksauce all around.

Well, when it's made from weak ass Colorado weed...sure. Colorado has weak shit. That's why you can handle smoking extracts all day up there. Do you think it's any different with the extracts in Colorado? Your extracts suck just as bad as your weed. Shitty weed = shitty extracts.

I don't smoke BHO and extracts from Colorado. It's all made from the top shelf Cali OG, Girl Scout Cookies, etc. I would be comfortable with smoking bubblehash regularly, but stuff like wax/BHO...I don't trust it. Like I said, Subcool said he smoked wax/BHO daily for 6 months and according to his doctor he did permanent lung damage, as a result. I haven't heard of other cases of people damaging their lungs with BHO/wax, but then again I'm pretty sure BHO/wax smokers aren't regularly scheduling appointments with their doctor to monitor the situation.

 

[Jhhnn]

I wouldn't want some crap that's been sitting around in "reserve." This isn't wine. This shit doesn't get better with age. It does to a certain extent, but it's starts to degrade in quality much faster than wine and Scotch. You're talking months versus years.

Not to mention, who would want to smoke a blended product containing a bunch of highly potent extracts when they're about to go to a complex day at work in the morning. I don't think Cheech and Chong would incorporate something that potent into their daily routine. Much less, Joe Smoker.

Now, a bowl of OG on the other hand...

They have these things called.... walk in freezers. Modular, or any custom size you want. Cannabis potency, particularly in extracts, is easily preserved for long periods-

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/references/journal/cannabis_degradation1.shtml

Blended products of any desired potency & consistency can be produced quite readily at an industrial scale. They can also be extremely consistent, as well.

It's not your momma's basement any more.

 

[Jhhnn]

Jhhnn and budtang need to start a new thread. Or get a room.

I should know better than to feed the troll. My apologies to all.

 

[budtang]

They have these things called.... walk in freezers. Modular, or any custom size you want. Cannabis potency, particularly in extracts, is easily preserved for long periods-

Who cares? It will never replace top shelf cannabis. I'm not saying people won't buy it, but it won't phase out high quality weed at all.

Potency isn't the only issue with top shelf, Jhhnn. You still need to get the right terpene profile to please the consumer. No amount of extracts is going to please the customer seeking a very specific flavor and high. Weed smokers aren't drug addicts looking for a fix, Jhhnnn. They're connoisseurs looking for a specific flavor on top of the potency. Hence, the popularity of weed and the diversity in the genetics.

Hundreds of different strains weren't created over the years for no reason. You're going to tell me that blended weed and extracts are going to eliminate the trends of the market that were responsible for the creation of such a diverse gene pool? Were extracts just recently invented, or something? Last time I checked they've been around the entire time. Yet, there are no blends taking over the market.

 

[dddaver]

I think this is called hijacking a thread. Maybe take it to PM. I don't think anybody cares what you are arguing about. My scroll finger gets tired.

 

[budtang]

I think this is called hijacking a thread. Maybe take it to PM. I don't think anybody cares what you are arguing about. My scroll finger gets tired.

I agree. Jhhnn has hijacked every thread on the subject. I've never seen someone make so many repetitive post and then turn around and criticize someone for reiterating a point. Literally, this guy has made the same posts dozens of times on both of these threads. He has said the same thing over and over and over and over for about 90 pages on these 2 threads. If he runs into a point in a discussion that he can't argue with he reverts back to,"Voters voted on this....shut up." The guy won't respond to any points made. He'll cherry pick anything that he can address and ignore everything else that he can't argue with.

Not only that, he is constantly lying about details of his state's system and trying to distort truth to talk it up. Going around and telling everyone that dispensaries aren't selling shit under the table in Colorado and criticizing dispensaries in other states for doing it is a lie. That's not a genuine statement made by someone who is looking to have an honest discussion on the subject. This guy is constantly distorting the truth and has been the entire time. If you try to criticize Colorado's system he says,"You don't live here." Then, he turns right around and starts criticizing California's system???? A state where he doesn't live.

On top of it all, the guy is a hobby grower with 6 plants in his closet. Why do you think he keeps repeating himself? He has exhausted his knowledge on the subject and has nothing else to say.Just look at his responses to my posts. I'll have long, detailed posts regarding aspects of cannabis horticulture and he quotes the entire post and responds with a few sarcastic comments.

I'm sorry, but that's not a discussion. That's trolling.

 

[budtang]

I should know better than to feed the troll. My apologies to all.

You haven't addressed anything in the past 2 pages. When you ignore details in my posts and respond with sarcasm... that's trolling. Your posts are textbook examples of trolling.

 

[monsoon]

I have a different view than Jhnnnnn on the tightness of the ship here.

Time will tell if the rec side mirrors the med side....but thinking that thousands of production licenses and the facilities they represent...and tracking every SEED from planting to retail sale...is a fallacy, at best. The Med side was an open flow of pot, grown in warehouses, wherever pot was needed. I know first hand of folks running a shop who routinely had their parents come out with their RV....load it full...and drive it to Minnesota.
They had a dozen grow houses, all being ran by 21 or overs, "to stay legal", and while they have a store as well, there's never a flood of cars in the lot and my friend who budtended for em said the majority of the fun was behind the scenes.

So there, bud. It happens. It happens a lot. It's called drug dealing for profit...under guise of medical marijuana. Exactly what you keep going on and on and on that you wanna become involved in in Cali. Get a card, sell pot under the umbrella of protection set up for folks who have true need 'cus you have no other game, pay no taxes, make bank!

Genuine caring. It's everywhere these days. They care so much they've built "an industry' on it all to ensure "everyone who needs medicine has access"

for a HUGE price, of course...because...well...we care. (about ourselves)

You'll fit right in....

 

[budtang]

called drug dealing for profit...under guise of medical marijuana.

It happens with Colorado recreational weed/dispensaries, as well. Don't try to lie and say it's only happening on the medical side.

I've been trying to advocate a system where I don't have to present my operation as a medical operation, but you guys won't allow that to happen, will you? So, what the hell is your point? Are you admitting that your system is retarded, or what? It's your own fault that people have to dishonestly represent their operations as "medical." Not theirs.

If that's the only system that you guys are going to provide then that's the system that's going to thrive. Don't bitch about people playing the game by the rules you established.

 

[monsoon]

Again, just as many of us played this game for the last 40 years WITHOUT PERMISSION, there is NOTHING stopping you from growing and selling weed from your (OK, someone else's) home >anywhere< in the US. We did it for years. You did it til you obvious made serious mistakes and got caught. A lot of guys on this forum are still doing it. In fact, most folks here are doing it.

I had my fun long before any concessions were made as you want to happen now and badmouth "us" (Co folks) because we didn't set you up. Too funny. Can't you see nobody here, including the STATE who mandates the program...CARES if you have a game or not? It's not OUR problem you can't make things jive as so many have done without any Gov't help/permission or otherwise over the last 40+ years. Too funny.

Yes, I made a lot of money doin it. The RISK of losing over 500K in real estate and the custody of my kids warranted it. It was great money and it lasted 20+ years. You shoulda been there...

Nobody set me up. I set myself up and made it happen like so many others did as well....

and still do.

it's a new game. Play it, (if you think you can hang) or shut up and step aside. Easy stuff.

 

[aridbud]

Ok, Ok....enough already!! Agree to disagree....and move on or get a hobby! I say that with the kindest respect.

 

[Jhhnn]

I have a different view than Jhnnnnn on the tightness of the ship here.

Time will tell if the rec side mirrors the med side....but thinking that thousands of production licenses and the facilities they represent...and tracking every SEED from planting to retail sale...is a fallacy, at best. The Med side was an open flow of pot, grown in warehouses, wherever pot was needed. I know first hand of folks running a shop who routinely had their parents come out with their RV....load it full...and drive it to Minnesota.
They had a dozen grow houses, all being ran by 21 or overs, "to stay legal", and while they have a store as well, there's never a flood of cars in the lot and my friend who budtended for em said the majority of the fun was behind the scenes.

So there, bud. It happens. It happens a lot. It's called drug dealing for profit...under guise of medical marijuana. Exactly what you keep going on and on and on that you wanna become involved in in Cali. Get a card, sell pot under the umbrella of protection set up for folks who have true need 'cus you have no other game, pay no taxes, make bank!

Genuine caring. It's everywhere these days. They care so much they've built "an industry' on it all to ensure "everyone who needs medicine has access"

for a HUGE price, of course...because...well...we care. (about ourselves)

You'll fit right in....

I take it your friend worked for the Uribe clan, huh? Or the other notorious gangster the Feds put out of business. That would explain a lot.

When CO Retail growing was moved way upscale, basically sanctified at the national level, it brought in a whole new class of operators & investors- mega millionaires who simply will not risk their personal freedom. Grubbing the cash out of pushing weed out the back door is dangerous chickenfeed to them. They also operate in a whole different milieu- high security industrial facilities instead of grow houses. They have real independent security, as well. The State demands it, unlike the situation around MMJ growing. Independent auditors, too. It's standard checks & balances of corporate compartmentalization. They have no intention of being black marketeers. What they're trying to achieve is much, much bigger than that. CO is just the act of getting their foot in the door, make no mistake about that.

One of the things I like about Retail Marijuana is that it strips away all the false memes of "compassion" surrounding MMJ.

People mostly smoke pot because it gives them pleasure. They'll do all sorts of things to obtain that pleasure, jump through a variety of hoops to have it.

People mostly grow pot for that reason or to make money from it. Those making money in turn justify the existence of those hoops in order to do so.

The whole thing is shot through with plausible deniability & deception from top to bottom. What has been of medical benefit to some has been a useful pretense to many, many more, still is in the rest of the country.

When CO voters endorsed retail, they indicated that they saw right through that. They know it's mostly bullshit. They also recognized that people have a right to enjoy cannabis for the pleasure of it alone, enshrined it in the State Constitution.

We can drop the pretense. Well, unless it gets a person more than the right to get high, grow their own in peace & privacy.

That's a different kettle of fish. Which is fine by me because it threatens the get high, grow your own in peace & privacy part not at all. The voters won't be undoing A64 anytime RSN, bet on that.

 

[monsoon]

Nope...not a member of any cartel/gang. just long time growers who licensed under the state, then watched as the State basically LOOKED AWAY.

These folks are still in business jhnn. Pretty sure they will follow suit and do the rec thing but their med op is still there and has been there since 2009. The were one of the first shops to open here. there are stories associated with other stores here as well. Another store was started y 2 guys who met in prison. LOL When they changed the law and said felons can't operate dispensaries, they just signed legal ownership over to a friend and kept operations status quo. they too, are still running a successful show here.

All under that watchful eye of the State and the county.

Yer lucky you have/had no medical need jhnn. your attitude towards the med side is way callous. Some people have benefitted greatly from the med program here...and I'm not talking about profit. Before 2008, there were few folks sliding by and it was a very tight ship. Far tighter than today. Please don't budtang the entire program because some of the participants play outside the rules.

Hopefully most of the people without true medical needs will just..um..yeah...go get high elsewhere.

 

[resinryder]

So lets recap shall we-

Big corps growing for big money in WA & CO=Good

Those of us growing, risking jail, families, loss of property, etc for consumers in the other 48 states and the rest of the world where it's illegal and no voting for legalization=Predatory black marketing pieces of shit.

Maybe you could find a nice dea website that shares your views.