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If it doesn't Shatter, it doesn't matter! Tribute to Jolly Rancher Amber Glass Thread
- Thread starter medicalgreen
- Start date
medicalgreen
Member
If you take that budder that shatters, and work it longer.
Try playing with it even longer, and you'll get something that crumbles, is more like playdough, or puddy, slightly sticky, but not too much. Very strong.
This is a delicate process, that can spoil fast, under the wrong conditions. Somewhere I read you can take budder and make amber, but so far, this is the only way it goes for me. I lose the amber if i'm not careful. But that was from med grade trim, dried. I think it's easier to keep it amber glasslike, if you have bud or extremely high quality trimmings.
I admit, it's tricky and i'm constantly learning more and more as I change it up. Good thing I have a good memory or I would have to take notes. Which I should anyways.
Also, daheadies, the last time I made it and I got budder, my heat was lower than usual during the alcohol purge. It took forever it seemed, and I never got my amber because I made too much and had to stir too much. You may need higher heat, if you are getting budder. The faster purge might be the key. A particular temp is needed to get the glass, I think. Not too hot, not too cool. and BTW, i'm not too sure. lol
I think that the thickness of the evaporated layer greatly affects the texture.
A thin layer of an alcohol solution is evaporated very quickly and leaves a layer of glass extract.
Evaporation of a thick layer is very different because of long distinguished microscopic bubbles
and the result is not a fragile product, and elastic flexible resinous substance.
Approximately the same difference I observed when comparing fresh-frozen with dried-grinded.
But in my opinion is much more influenced by the quality of the source material.
Anatomy of glandular heads in different parts of the plant is quite different.
Farther away from the flowers, the thicker cuticle and the more fatty substances of similar solubility with the desired resin.
A thin layer of an alcohol solution is evaporated very quickly and leaves a layer of glass extract.
Evaporation of a thick layer is very different because of long distinguished microscopic bubbles
and the result is not a fragile product, and elastic flexible resinous substance.
Approximately the same difference I observed when comparing fresh-frozen with dried-grinded.
But in my opinion is much more influenced by the quality of the source material.
Anatomy of glandular heads in different parts of the plant is quite different.
Farther away from the flowers, the thicker cuticle and the more fatty substances of similar solubility with the desired resin.
medicalgreen,
Did you read my post #56, if you could answer, thanks.
-SamS
Did you read my post #56, if you could answer, thanks.
-SamS
medicalgreen
Member
Thanks for the info Sam. Also, thank for the invitation.
According to Jump, the reddish color comes from pistils, not plant matter. But who can say for sure?
If it truly has no taste, no color and no smell, I doubt I would want to smoke it, even if it's pure THC. I LOVE the flavor of the amber glass. Even the budder does not taste as good. Personally, I have never smoked anything as clean feeling as the shatter glass.
daheadies
poppin' outta control
Ya my buddies has no taste or smell, and he claims that its b/c taste and smell are impurities.. You would still want to smoke it hehe, but ya the taste from jumps amber when properly extracted is awesome!
Jump- How do you KNOW that its the bleeding of the pistils? Im not questioning you, im wondering what your sources are or if its more of a guess?
Jump- How do you KNOW that its the bleeding of the pistils? Im not questioning you, im wondering what your sources are or if its more of a guess?
medicalgreen
Member
Yeah, daheadies, same with my friend who makes the shatter. It has no flavor really, and it's much stiffer than mine, usually turns out. Mine always seems to stick just slightly, if handled too much. His practically never sticks at all. I guess there is a further refining that can be done, but what is the point, really?
I think it can be done by running your alcohol final solution through a syringe filter with carbon in the syringe. Then the carbon would be stopped by the filter, but the material would be fully filtered. Could work, but not worth the trouble for me, I doubt.
Check out his thread Banana Silver Ladyboys. He extracted from plants that had no pistils, yet it came out shatter and greenish, not reddish. If I recall correctly.
My favorite strains are OG and Headband and if I had to do without flavor or aroma, it just would not be the same.
medicalgreen
Member
To be true hashmasters, daheadies, we'll have to take this a step further and figure that one out!
Currently, i'm happy with my results, but in the past, that is exactly what kept me from moving forward. lol
I grow OG, Headband, Chem 91, Chem 4, and a few other. I'm really looking forward to the OG and Headband ambers. Have not done them yet.
Maybe the pistils contribute to the red color, but if you make oil out of resin only it still comes out red. Also if you make THC synthetically it is clear when made then when exposed to oxygen it first turns violet for a short time, then red, with zero exposure to pistils.
I am not saying that pure THC is better, I am only saying that the shatter oil is not pure THC. I am the one that first claimed and then proved that terpenoids contribute to the high, more then a decade ago. And yes 100% pure THC is boring and lacks any individuality. Have you ever tested the highest grade shatter with a GC? What was the THC level?
All the best,
-SamS
I am not saying that pure THC is better, I am only saying that the shatter oil is not pure THC. I am the one that first claimed and then proved that terpenoids contribute to the high, more then a decade ago. And yes 100% pure THC is boring and lacks any individuality. Have you ever tested the highest grade shatter with a GC? What was the THC level?
All the best,
-SamS
tonsoffuns419
Member
can anyone point me in the direction of a thread explaining washing and second washings ect. i am a baby with concentrates and have only made the messiest nastiest darkest qwiso
edit: i would use the search feature if it didnt give me a 404 error every time
edit: i would use the search feature if it didnt give me a 404 error every time
medicalgreen
Member
Sam_Skunkman,
I believe you are probably correct, because I have made oil from bubble only and it came out red, too, with no pistils. Very good point.
I see what you are saying. And I agree with you, as well.
I have yet to have mine tested. But will when I can afford to.
Here, they want $120 per sample in 1 gr samples, and you don't even get the gr back. lol
I'm pretty happy with what i'm making, considering the great flavor and effect. I have seen this other shatter a couple times now, that's kinda reddish, or orangish, but it has a different consistency. It has no flavor really. I don't care for it nearly as much as what i'm making.
I find the budder has less flavor than the shatter i'm making. And it's the same material, but with less terpenoids because of decarb process occurring.
I concur completely.
Talk to the people doing the testing, I see no reason they need more then 1/10 of a gram to do the testing. If they smoked it first with them, and it is as good as you say, then maybe they would do the test for free, if you are not trying to sell products, maybe they will cut you some slack.
Don't be surprised if the very best shatter is not quite as high in THC as ones you like better with more taste.
I am curious as I have seen oils that were in the high 80%'s they were close to shatter in taste and quality, if you removed the very last bit of ethanol.
-SamS
Don't be surprised if the very best shatter is not quite as high in THC as ones you like better with more taste.
I am curious as I have seen oils that were in the high 80%'s they were close to shatter in taste and quality, if you removed the very last bit of ethanol.
-SamS
Sam_Skunkman,
I believe you are probably correct, because I have made oil from bubble only and it came out red, too, with no pistils. Very good point.
I see what you are saying. And I agree with you, as well.
I have yet to have mine tested. But will when I can afford to.
Here, they want $120 per sample in 1 gr samples, and you don't even get the gr back. lol
I'm pretty happy with what i'm making, considering the great flavor and effect. I have seen this other shatter a couple times now, that's kinda reddish, or orangish, but it has a different consistency. It has no flavor really. I don't care for it nearly as much as what i'm making.
I find the budder has less flavor than the shatter i'm making. And it's the same material, but with less terpenoids because of decarb process occurring.
I concur completely.
daheadies
poppin' outta control
My buddy got his amber tested at a highly respected lab... tested out at 98%thc..
he uses dry trim im pretty sure, which is why its not thca
I reported about bleeding pistils in thread “Theory about oil color and density” posts #20,25
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2158410&postcount=20
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2161447&postcount=25
(Quote)
For sure there are few reasons witch cause different changes of color.
The color bleeding from pistils seems to be pioneering before oxidation & UV.
These trichs were found in a cavern after alco-wash.
They weren’t heated or UV-exposed nor even opened, but they are already colored with red pistils’ color.
I’m sure that UV doesn’t play any role in case of my studies. There is no UV in my kitchen in the evening in winter.
To be more correct - it’s too little UV here to be considered as a reason of color changes.
(End of quote)
ICMagger gunnaknow suggested the role of pigments in the coloration of the extract into the red.
-“Red pistills aren't the only culprit for the red colour in oil …
The red colour is probably largely to do with carotenoids and perhaps also anthocyanins.” (click)
I know little about the pigments and their behavior, but I am confident in the significant role of oxidation.
Effect of oxidation on the color change is well illustrated by the dark color of the resin,
ethanol extracted from the filters that were used to obtain resin amber.
-
Even earlier, in 2008 thread “Resin Tear Drop from clear to red” (click) ,
I registered the change of color of sap from the clear light yellow to dark red during the half-year of storage in a dark place at room temperature.
Those photos are located in the old gallery. I could not shift them here in the form of thumbnails.
I think that's oxidation is the cause of the appearance of dark color in decarboxylate THC,
which should be colorless, as Sam reports about this.
Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to make these experiments in an inert atmosphere.
Green shatter for me was a miracle for which I have not found an explanation,
I was not surprised by its fragility, but surprised the color, I have not figured out how did chlorophyll got there through non-polar butane.
I sometimes get an electric green background hue to an otherwise golden extraction, when viewed in natural sunlight, smeared in a thin film of glass.
I have always ass-um-ed that it was because Butane is not completely insoluble in water with only four carbons in the chain.
The MSDS's show water solubility at about 15% or around 61mg/Liter. Pentane with its 5 carbon chain, and the other longer chain Alkanes above it, are shown as insoluble in water.
QWISO= Quick shake ISO extract, if yours was dark, you did it for WAY too long. Most peeps I know do it 15-20 seconds max, turns out a golden color that way. Next time, don't leave the trim in the ISO for longer than 15-20 seconds...
Interesting thread. I myself prefer shatter to budder, and with my vacuum purging method, it doesn't taste not one bit of 'tane. It's all in how well you purge the oil, IMHFO...
daheadies
poppin' outta control
I reported about bleeding pistils in thread “Theory about oil color and density” posts #20,25
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2158410&postcount=20
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2161447&postcount=25
(Quote)
For sure there are few reasons witch cause different changes of color.
The color bleeding from pistils seems to be pioneering before oxidation & UV.
These trichs were found in a cavern after alco-wash.
They weren’t heated or UV-exposed nor even opened, but they are already colored with red pistils’ color.
I’m sure that UV doesn’t play any role in case of my studies. There is no UV in my kitchen in the evening in winter.
To be more correct - it’s too little UV here to be considered as a reason of color changes.
(End of quote)
-
-
-
ICMagger gunnaknow suggested the role of pigments in the coloration of the extract into the red.
-“Red pistills aren't the only culprit for the red colour in oil …
The red colour is probably largely to do with carotenoids and perhaps also anthocyanins.” (click)
I know little about the pigments and their behavior, but I am confident in the significant role of oxidation.
Effect of oxidation on the color change is well illustrated by the dark color of the resin,
ethanol extracted from the filters that were used to obtain resin amber.
--
-
Even earlier, in 2008 thread “Resin Tear Drop from clear to red” (click) ,
I registered the change of color of sap from the clear light yellow to dark red during the half-year of storage in a dark place at room temperature.
Those photos are located in the old gallery. I could not shift them here in the form of thumbnails.
I think that's oxidation is the cause of the appearance of dark color in decarboxylate THC,
which should be colorless, as Sam reports about this.
Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to make these experiments in an inert atmosphere.
Green shatter for me was a miracle for which I have not found an explanation,
I was not surprised by its fragility, but surprised the color, I have not figured out how did chlorophyll got there through non-polar butane.
Thanks for this info/ clairification! and especially for the links!!! I have not seen those before! you just keep makin my day jump..
:yay:
Analysis by GC does not give THCA values, because it is converted to THC in the process. Is anyone who does HPLC offering cannabis analysis? Of course 98% is difficult to believe. If this figure is on paper maybe they are selling what people want to hear to build their business. They have nothing to lose.
This oxidation and an inability to overcome it is the reason why cannabis extract was abandoned long ago as a medicine in the US and the UK after initial interest and distribution - not early drug control efforts - and is in its current regulatory position. If it were more stable, cannabis extract might now be just another old discontinued pharmacy drug no one has any interest in.
Small amounts of polar molecules make chlorophyll soluble in nonpolars, and it especially wouldn't be surprising if fresh material that was roughly handled (breaking cell walls and releasing volatile polars) and soon extracted with butane was green, instead of the familiar THCA/beta-carotene/lutein yellow. There is the use of charcoal to remove the green, perhaps it can be adsorbed from nonpolar solvent on dried calcium carbonate, perhaps precipitated by mixing solutions of calcium chloride ice-melt and baking soda.
