ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[Anti]

I have no idea what you mean by "Commercial Crap."

This Initiative allows local Government to set height restrictions. Therefore it can specify 1 foot tall.

Let's go ahead and assume that you're right. In a 5x5x1 I can grow AT LEAST 2 lbs. That seems pretty draconian to you, doesn't it? Only 2 lbs! That's only 1 lb a month of personal smoke! How will you ever survive?[/quote]

 

[Anti]

Why should we Vote yes?

• #1 Reason: The fact that this is a voted prop means that IT CANNOT BE REPEALED WITHOUT A NEW VOTE! THIS WILL STRENGTHEN CURRENT CANNABIS LAWS BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT VOTED IN, BUT LEGISLATED IN! THIS WILL MAKE IT MUCH HARDER TO REPEAL MEDICAL IF THEY WERE TO TRY IT.
• Personal Possession in Public of an Ounce will be legal without med use.
• Catching you with herb will not be probable cause to search your vehicle or residence.
• Possession of large amounts in your own home for personal use and a better defense even for those who are NOT using all those lbs for personal.
• Lowers likelihood that LEO will spend $$$,$$$,$$$ and man-hours pursuing marijuana related arrests, convictions.
• Lowers likelihood of being arrested for personal use in any context.
• Increases tourism and tax revenue for bankrupt state of California. (Out of towners won't need to get an illegit med rec to LEGALLY buy herb while in town.)
• Sets ball rolling for further pro-cannabis legislation in the future and in other states/countries.
• Big middle finger to federal cannabis laws.

I'm sure I could think of more, but these should suffice for the moment.

If you want to attack what I've said, please quote me and then explain why I'm wrong. Don't just pop in and repeat the same tired bullshit about how this will criminalize medical patients.

Thanks.

 

[igrowone]

That is just the really cool deal there is a great deal of case law on this. Tax is due on 100% of the transaction every step of the way. The purpose of this particular tax code section is to help prevent and deter the illegal activity, therefore the government doesn't care if the tax is greater than all profits.

Grower sells a lb dis dispensary for $2k, grower owes $700 in tax.

Dispensary sell the LB for $6K then D owes $2,100 in tax.

So the D must pay $2K to purchase $2.1K in tax for a net margin of $1.75K. Sure they have a lot of expenses like employees and rent, but those are NOT deductible.

Like I said this section has already been challenged in US tax courts and holds up. They took down Al Capone with tax charges they have the power to do the same to almost anyone.

not sure if you meant this has been used and been upheld, wouldn't surprise me though
interesting in the context that DEA normally likes to confiscate everything, maybe they use it to put you in IRS debt so they can hound you death after you get out of prison
i'd be curious if this is currently being used with dispensaries and /or their owners, i'd think the dispensary business would not pay much if this was being used

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

• #1 Reason: The fact that this is a voted prop means that IT CANNOT BE REPEALED WITHOUT A NEW VOTE! THIS WILL STRENGTHEN CURRENT CANNABIS LAWS BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT VOTED IN, BUT LEGISLATED IN! THIS WILL MAKE IT MUCH HARDER TO REPEAL MEDICAL IF THEY WERE TO TRY IT.
• Personal Possession in Public of an Ounce will be legal without med use.
• Catching you with herb will not be probable cause to search your vehicle or residence.
• Possession of large amounts in your own home for personal use and a better defense even for those who are NOT using all those lbs for personal.
• Lowers likelihood that LEO will spend $$$,$$$,$$$ and man-hours pursuing marijuana related arrests, convictions.
• Lowers likelihood of being arrested for personal use in any context.
• Increases tourism and tax revenue for bankrupt state of California. (Out of towners won't need to get an illegit med rec to LEGALLY buy herb while in town.)
• Sets ball rolling for further pro-cannabis legislation in the future and in other states/countries.
• Big middle finger to federal cannabis laws.

I'm sure I could think of more, but these should suffice for the moment.

If you want to attack what I've said, please quote me and then explain why I'm wrong. Don't just pop in and repeat the same tired bullshit about how this will criminalize medical patients.

Thanks.

Cannot give more reputation to anti. But if 19 passes I got an oz of my finest OG with your name on it...or even if it don't pass..... HAHAHhAHa

 

[Hydrosun]

again 12 lbs per year per 25sq' is not average it is super human.

 

[Anti]

I am an outdoor/greenhouse grower...so yeah, maybe I have some stuff to learn about micro grows...but damn, that seems like you got a lot out of a 2x2 space!! Nice job!!

I got 3.5 oz my first time out, from a 17"x17" space (2.01sq.ft.) that is only 23" tall! He has double the space... sounds about right to me.

 

[JJScorpio]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
Haha how long do you think it’s going to take dick lee to be in your small communities (two M's in communities Mr. professional degree man) padding every redneck city officials pocket with some candy<o></o>
<o></o>
Great so this bill passes, and if we have to ban together to fight it? I don’t want to fight anything bro things are perfect right now<o></o>

What you should say is "I don't want to change things because they are good for me". Isn't that right?

As I said earlier. Not everyone sells Cannabis. Not everyone wants to give their personal info to a Doctor and pay him for a certificate so they can play the med game. Some people just want to be able to grow and smoke their own and be left in peace. But because things are good for you, then they don't matter. And this is what people get upset with.

What are you going to do when this Bill fails and Govt decides to change the rules in the med game? Do you think big Gov't is just going to kick back and say "ok, no problem"? Isn't it true Cities and Counties are trying to close dispensories now?

You folks in Cali can do what you like, but there might come a day 19 is the only thing to choose from. It's well documented that Cali's Cannabis trade is a billion dollar venture. If this Bill fails, Gov't is going to know why. And I don't think the Gov't monster is going to lay dorment and not get their share much longer. Do you?

 

[JJScorpio]

again 12 lbs per year per 25sq' is not average it is super human.

I grew in an area a little smaller than that for three years. I think 6 to 8 pound would be average based on 4 grows per year. But if you really wanted to "cram" the footprint 12 would be doable. But I wouldn't use it as an average......

 

[markscastle]

I call shenningans. First off m16s are banned in ca. Full auto is banned in ca. Full Auto Guns+weed = good bye to your freedom. I don't believe a fuckin word you've said. And from your previous posts about how "unfair" it is that under 21 aren't legal in 19 only leads me to believe your some high school scoundrel who's so full of shit it's spewing out your mouth..

First off assult rifles are banned in California (unless you bought it before the ban) or semi automatic AR-15`s.Full automatic`s are not banned by the state because the state doesn`t have the authority being they are regulated by the Fedral Goverment! And don`t care WTF you think but I belong to AARP you stupit F*ck!

 

[Anti]

The larger the gov the less liberties we have as individuals. California does not need the revenues. Mayor of Bell $800k a year, his assistant $400k,Cheif of Police $470K A YEAR. California brings in over $1.5 trillion a year in taxes. We pay enough taxes and our money is being misused. We have absolutely no reason to trust the gov will not end up taxing Marijuana $300+ per ounce and tell us where we have to buy it. I did not read a cap on the taxes that will be charged.... Guess what that means...There is no cap.

Let's assume that everything you've said just now is true. You only pay the tax when you buy or sell it. There is no tax for possession or growing.

Therefore... to avoid taxes... don't buy or sell it. Simple.

Marijuana should be kept as medicine.

It is being kept as medicine. This will only STRENGTHEN current medical laws.

This does nothing for federal law

Incorrect. It puts federal gov't on notice that a large percentage of americans are pro-cannabis. When Cali makes record tourism dollars, many other tourist-starved states will take notice.

nothing for the people already in jail,

it does nothing EXPLICIT for them... but let's think about it. You're in charge of an overcrowded state prison and you have to choose between releasing either a rapist early, a child molester early, or you can release a guy who was jailed for doing something that is no longer a criminal activity. Who do you release early?

goes against patients rights

This strengthens the patients rights because this would be voted in as opposed to legislated in and it specifically mentions current rights in the bill, strengthening them against legislative action.

goes gainst free markets

The current market is not free. The new market will be as free as any other. It's not exactly a level playing field, but what business in America is?

and goes backwards from the current law.

It upholds (and its passage strengthens) current law regarding medical usage.

I have never heard of anyone going to jail staying within the plant limits already in place. Has anyone here?

So what makes you think that they would suddenly start now?

 

[dagnabit]

Prop 19 doesn`t change anything in 215 but it will change what is not in 215 and that will effect medical growers! I won`t be able to have more than an oz if I go anywhere,I won`t be able to smoke just anywhere as minors may be near by,I won`t even be able to smoke in my own home when My kids and some of my family come over because of Prop 19! As for growing I may not have a 5x5 area or plant count but nothing saying local goverment won`t pass more land use laws once prop 19 passes and gives them even more power than they have now! None of this is covered by 215 but it will be under prop 19 and it will effect me as a medical grower! For thoughs who are not medical growers/users it will be even worse! Prop 19 is trash plain and simple! I might make a little more in seed sales but if prop 19 passes I don`t think I`ll sell any in California anymore! As a mater of fact thinking of taking some of the money I make from seed sales and donating it to MMRP as they are trying to pass laws I do agree with!

not how the law works and i addressed this bullshit 5 pages ago.

language of your lies is not present in the proposal

please stop lying?

 

[Anti]

I dont always understand much,, especially over the pond,, but way we see it,, any regulation will further outlaw growers that don't have a piece of paper to grow a plant?

No. You have misunderstood. This will not further outlaw growers. It will MAINTAIN the current state whereby unregulated anonymous SALE will continue to be illegal, but that within a 25 sq. ft per residence limit, anyone can grow whatever they can grow and can keep the results of that harvest without registering with anyone or paying a single nickel.

Sounds wonderful to me.

 

[rives]

Grower sells a lb dis dispensary for $2k, grower owes $700 in tax.

Dispensary sell the LB for $6K then D owes $2,100 in tax.

So the D must pay $2K to purchase $2.1K in tax for a net margin of $1.75K. Sure they have a lot of expenses like employees and rent, but those are NOT deductible.

I'm glad you're not doing my taxes. Personal income tax goes to 35%, not sales tax. For most communities in California the sales tax varies from 8.25% to 8.75%. I am starting to understand your opposition to taxation if it is based on these types of rationales.

 

[markscastle]

not how the law works and i addressed this bullshit 5 pages ago.

language of your lies is not present in the proposal

please stop lying?

You may have addressed it 5 pages ago but it isn`t a lie you are because what I said is the truth! Nonthing you say can change the wording in the proposed law and it is going to effect medical growers regardless of anything you say!

 

[Anti]

Cannot give more reputation to anti. But if 19 passes I got an oz of my finest OG with your name on it...or even if it don't pass..... HAHAHhAHa

 

[dagnabit]

bro things are perfect right now

if you conciser having to pay a flunkie,lie,perjure yourself,beg for permission,register with the government,still risk arrest and not to mention ride on the backs of sick people perfect.

ill say it again

prop 19 allows an adult to grow and do whatever you want with marijuana in your own home and carry an ounce on your person.

this is MORE LAX THAN FUCKING AMSTERDAM!!!!!!!!

so you are telling me turning cali into amsterdam is not good enough for you?

 

[markscastle]

You're retarded. If people are carrying ANYTHING NOW, they are breaking the law. If they are carrying UP TO AN OUNCE once this passes, they will not be breaking the law.

If they CHOOSE to break that law for whatever reason (only realistic reason is street dealing) they will face the consequences... just like now.

In the legal scenario, all you have to do is carry 1 oz or less when you're out and about. Seems reasonable to me. I never carry an ounce NOW. Because I don't want to be hassled or imprisoned. If you aren't afraid to do it now... you won't be afraid to do it then.

So... stupid people will still get locked up.[/QUOTE

What good would it be to be able to carry an oz with you anyway if you can`t smoke it anywhere because minors might be near you?

 

[dagnabit]

You may have addressed it 5 pages ago but it isn`t a lie you are because what I said is the truth! Nonthing you say can change the wording in the proposed law and it is going to effect medical growers regardless of anything you say!

ok show the wording that says so?

or

please stop lying?

 

[GanjaAL]

For me as a californian it is not. People are still going to jail if prop19 is voted in... I do not take profit or converting cali into amersterdam over people going to jail.

If people really want to smoke to relax and relieve stress... go get a rec as it offers way more freedoms than prop 19.

Then in 2012 we can vote in Jack herer's prop.

Also people are hoping it will change their states laws... sorry but concervitives and the bible belt will not be won over by prop19.

 

[markscastle]

if you conciser having to pay a flunkie,lie,perjure yourself,beg for permission,register with the government,still risk arrest and not to mention ride on the backs of sick people perfect.

ill say it again

prop 19 allows an adult to grow and do whatever you want with marijuana in your own home and carry an ounce on your person.

this is MORE LAX THAN FUCKING AMSTERDAM!!!!!!!!

so you are telling me turning cali into amsterdam is not good enough for you?

Yep! I don`t live in Amsterdam and this law is not what I have been dreaming of all my life! What I want is all goverment to back off completely when it comes to marijuana! And I won`t take no for an answer!