ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[markscastle]

Prop 19 doesn`t change anything in 215 but it will change what is not in 215 and that will effect medical growers! I won`t be able to have more than an oz if I go anywhere,I won`t be able to smoke just anywhere as minors may be near by,I won`t even be able to smoke in my own home when My kids and some of my family come over because of Prop 19! As for growing I may not have a 5x5 area or plant count but nothing saying local goverment won`t pass more land use laws once prop 19 passes and gives them even more power than they have now! None of this is covered by 215 but it will be under prop 19 and it will effect me as a medical grower! For thoughs who are not medical growers/users it will be even worse! Prop 19 is trash plain and simple! I might make a little more in seed sales but if prop 19 passes I don`t think I`ll sell any in California anymore! As a mater of fact thinking of taking some of the money I make from seed sales and donating it to MMRP as they are trying to pass laws I do agree with!

 

[JJScorpio]

5K or 10K watts or cash?

Like I said, no one likes taxes, but they pay for more than police. They also pay for roads, sidewalks, schools, infrastructure and even for people to live, eat and stay warm and have medical care. Do you know what seperates us from third world countries?

Why should some have to get up and sit in traffic for an hour to go to work and pay tax, while others, who enjoy the same extras these taxes pay for, do nothing yet live as good or in most cases better. And if my relation know someone doing this how many more are doing it? How long can this continue before there isn't any money left?

how can a 5k to 10k grower pay tax?
why should he pay tax to the people that are hunting him down and want to bust his door down at 3am, shoot his dog and put guns to his children's heads, ending by wanting to lock him up for years.

you want bloody tax, then stop hunting people like animals. till you allow an activity you can't expect people to expose them selves by paying tax on it.

 

[markscastle]

You are completely full of shit. There is no way that LEO is going to not "raise their eyebrow's" at a pot grower with a machine gun. Perhaps they didn't look closely enough to determine that it had been converted to full auto, or perhaps you are simply not letting the truth get in the way of a good story. Also, I don't know how you figure inflation, but it apparently has the same grounding in reality. I remember paying $15 for 4-finger bags of Humboldt home-grown in 1973. Gasoline at the time (the gas shortage!) had just spiked to $1 gallon. Gas is not $26 a gallon now.

The rifle is not a conversion it has always been full auto,I have a Fedral Licence for it and it and my growing is legal.They have known about both for a long time.I take my guns to the local FBI range all the time and shoot with LEO both local and Fedral Officers.I also out shoot them Ha! Ha! I have family that are Homeland agents!

Gas was a little more than just a dallar during the gas shorage back then and many other things have gone up more than marijuana prices have! Such as beer,wine,tabacco many types of food and such! Over all prices prices of marijuana are not out of line with inflation.Outdoor maybe a little cheeper and indoor is way higher but that reflects the cost to grow indoors with high energy and supplies.

 

[bdakind]

The larger the gov the less liberties we have as individuals. California does not need the revenues. Mayor of Bell $800k a year, his assistant $400k,Cheif of Police $470K A YEAR. California brings in over $1.5 trillion a year in taxes. We pay enough taxes and our money is being misused. We have absolutely no reason to trust the gov will not end up taxing Marijuana $300+ per ounce and tell us where we have to buy it. I did not read a cap on the taxes that will be charged.... Guess what that means...There is no cap.

Marijuana should be kept as medicine. There are a lot of people out there that need the medicine and can currently write it off and deduct it from their taxes. Taxation is not legalization. This does nothing for federal law, nothing for the people already in jail, goes against patients rights, goes against free markets and goes backwards from the current law. I have never heard of anyone going to jail staying within the plant limits already in place. Has anyone here?

 

[rives]

Nope, fall of '73 gas was $1 a gallon in NorCal. It had doubled in price to get there. I was going to college at CSUH (just had been upgraded from a college to a university), and I vividly remember what the cost of gas was doing to my budget.

 

[markscastle]

5K or 10K watts or cash?

Like I said, no one likes taxes, but they pay for more than police. They also pay for roads, sidewalks, schools, infrastructure and even for people to live, eat and stay warm and have medical care. Do you know what seperates us from third world countries?

Why should some have to get up and sit in traffic for an hour to go to work and pay tax, while others, who enjoy the same extras these taxes pay for, do nothing yet live as good or in most cases better. And if my relation know someone doing this how many more are doing it? How long can this continue before there isn't any money left?

They already tax us to death and people can`t aford it just so fat cats in goverment can live high on the hog compaired to most people I know.A pot tax won`t stop the state from spending like there is no tomarrow it will just give them more money to spend and us less to spend! I prefure to spend my money on what is important to me and not have to pay for buracratic BS and waste! So if this passes who will make all the money on marijuana ,the rich who have money to invest and they don`t care about quality or my well being only about making money! You`d think you could buy your way into heven with all that money but being rich is more likely to end you up somewhere else!

 

[Kwazee Wabbit]

The rifle is not a conversion it has always been full auto,I have a Fedral Licence for it and it and my growing is legal.They have known about both for a long time.I take my guns to the local FBI range all the time and shoot with LEO both local and Fedral Officers.I also out shoot them Ha! Ha! I have family that are Homeland agents!

WOW! This speaks volumes!

 

[Hydrosun]

They also pay for roads, sidewalks, schools, infrastructure and even for people to live, eat and stay warm and have medical care.

Many states have no income tax FL, TX, WA, DE, NV, AK and others. Roads, sidewalks, infrastructure are paid for with excise taxes (gas tax), property taxes, and sales taxes. None of the income tax free states tax prescription drugs. So if you produce meds and sell them there is no sales tax or state income tax. The feds would still like an income tax and they would like to use this little gem:

Internal Revenue Code section 280E specifically denies a deduction or credit for any expense in a business consisting of trafficking in illegal drugs "prohibited by Federal law or the law of any State in which such trade or business is conducted."


So when it comes down to it 100% of the revenue for the current dispensaries and ALL prop 19 sales are counted as income. Therefore all sellers by law owe tax equal to up to 35% (tax rates to change soon) of the sale.

Prop 19 may pass but MJ is still illegal under federal statute and federal tax law says income tax must be paid on 100% of sales.

I can't wait to see the court cases between the IRS and the gang of four over this.

 

[markscastle]

WOW! This speaks volumes!

Like how? I don`t have any love for LEO but I am not a crook and have not been a target of them (except when I protested the war in Nam).I don`t rob people,I don`t steal from people,I don`t cheet people, However I do smoke marijuana and have for over 40 years! And yes I do have a few members of my family that are LEO but so what I don`t get to choose my family and although we don`t agree on many things it doesn`t mean I don`t still love them and they love me! Besides some of them also smoke marijuana! So get over your self!

 

[igrowone]

Internal Revenue Code section 280E specifically denies a deduction or credit for any expense in a business consisting of trafficking in illegal drugs "prohibited by Federal law or the law of any State in which such trade or business is conducted."
</b>

So when it comes down to it 100% of the revenue for the current dispensaries and ALL prop 19 sales are counted as income. Therefore all sellers by law owe tax equal to up to 35% (tax rates to change soon) of the sale.

Prop 19 may pass but MJ is still illegal under federal statute and federal tax law says income tax must be paid on 100% of sales.

I can't wait to see the court cases between the IRS and the gang of four over this.

amazing subsection of law, you couldn't write fiction like this, no one would believe it
you have to suspect this has been accounted for by the high rollers, we may not like them, but they seldom miss a trick on accounting
if revenue become appreciable for this extra MJ tax, the federal government is slowly co-opting itself into accepting the canna-biz

 

[bdakind]

They already tax us to death and people can`t aford it just so fat cats in goverment can live high on the hog compaired to most people I know.A pot tax won`t stop the state from spending like there is no tomarrow it will just give them more money to spend and us less to spend! I prefure to spend my money on what is important to me and not have to pay for buracratic BS and waste! So if this passes who will make all the money on marijuana ,the rich who have money to invest and they don`t care about quality or my well being only about making money! You`d think you could buy your way into heven with all that money but being rich is more likely to end you up somewhere else!

Finally some intelligent words..

A lot of people here are idealist and believe the sky will be bluer and if this passes.


The fact of the matter is that people spend their own money more wisely than people who spend other people's money.

 

[markscastle]

Well if people think that other people can spend there money more wise than themselves they don`t need to pass an other tax law to do it! I`ll be happy to spend there money for them!

 

[bdakind]

Many states have no income tax FL, TX, WA, DE, NV, AK and others. Roads, sidewalks, infrastructure are paid for with excise taxes (gas tax), property taxes, and sales taxes. None of the income tax free states tax prescription drugs. So if you produce meds and sell them there is no sales tax or state income tax. The feds would still like an income tax and they would like to use this little gem:

Internal Revenue Code section 280E specifically denies a deduction or credit for any expense in a business consisting of trafficking in illegal drugs "prohibited by Federal law or the law of any State in which such trade or business is conducted."


So when it comes down to it 100% of the revenue for the current dispensaries and ALL prop 19 sales are counted as income. Therefore all sellers by law owe tax equal to up to 35% (tax rates to change soon) of the sale.

Prop 19 may pass but MJ is still illegal under federal statute and federal tax law says income tax must be paid on 100% of sales.

I can't wait to see the court cases between the IRS and the gang of four over this.

Bravo

 

[Hydrosun]

amazing subsection of law, you couldn't write fiction like this, no one would believe it
you have to suspect this has been accounted for by the high rollers, we may not like them, but they seldom miss a trick on accounting
if revenue become appreciable for this extra MJ tax, the federal government is slowly co-opting itself into accepting the canna-biz

That is just the really cool deal there is a great deal of case law on this. Tax is due on 100% of the transaction every step of the way. The purpose of this particular tax code section is to help prevent and deter the illegal activity, therefore the government doesn't care if the tax is greater than all profits.

Grower sells a lb dis dispensary for $2k, grower owes $700 in tax.

Dispensary sell the LB for $6K then D owes $2,100 in tax.

So the D must pay $2K to purchase $2.1K in tax for a net margin of $1.75K. Sure they have a lot of expenses like employees and rent, but those are NOT deductible.

Like I said this section has already been challenged in US tax courts and holds up. They took down Al Capone with tax charges they have the power to do the same to almost anyone.

 

[JJScorpio]

Nope, fall of '73 gas was $1 a gallon in NorCal. It had doubled in price to get there. I was going to college at CSUH (just had been upgraded from a college to a university), and I vividly remember what the cost of gas was doing to my budget.

I remember that, lol....

Shortly thereafter they did the gas rationing and lottery. You could only get gas certain days of the week.....

 

[SpasticGramps]

The rifle is not a conversion it has always been full auto,I have a Fedral Licence for it and it and my growing is legal.

Wow. Class III weapon's license and a legal grow. Must be nice. I'd spend umpteen years in a federal ass pounding camp with that setup.

I wish this bill would pass so maybe some of us can experience that kind of freedom. If one state revolts the others may start doing it to. It's not going to be all blue skies and smiley faces if this thing passes, but it's the larger principle at hand that is worth fighting for IMO.

 

[DocLeaf]

I dont always understand much,, especially over the pond,, but way we see it,, any regulation will further outlaw growers that don't have a piece of paper to grow a plant? Is that really what people want? or what the ppl issuing the pieces of paper want? This is the question you folks need to ask. Prop 215 was a prototype...

If you folks get any say/vote/liberation in the matter,, then bid for decriminalization first... with a program of education that immediately follows... and see how it pans out.

peace and freedom!

 

[Guest 88950]

...You want to be legal? Get a doctor`s recomendation! And no you don`t need to lie to get one because marijuana is also a proventitive medication so you don`t need to be sick in order to get a doctor to recomend it for your health! ...

no proof of what you say so its just your interpretation.

here is info from the California Medical Board regarding the Compassionate Use Act '96 and qualifying illness'. i know other illness' are covered thats why i bolded some of the text.

"3. Which medical conditions are covered by the CUA and the MMP?
The CUA applies to patients with cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis,
migraine. In addition, it applies to “any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.” The MMP
clarifies the concept of a “serious medical condition,” which can qualify a patient to obtain an ID card and
use medicinal cannabis upon a physician’s recommendation: AIDS, anorexia, arthritis, cachexia, cancer,
chronic pain, glaucoma, migraine, persistent muscle spasms (including those associated with MS), seizures
(including those associated with epilepsy), and severe nausea. Furthermore, the concept includes any other
chronic or persistent medical symptom that either 1) substantially limits the ability of the person to conduct
one or more major life activities as defined in the ADA; or 2) if not alleviated, may cause serious harm to
the patient’s safety or physical or mental health. (Health & Safety Code §11362.7(h).) Further information
can be obtained from the State of California at the following website: www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/MMP/
Pages/CompassionateUseact.aspx."

http://www.cmanet.org/bookstore/fre...call_number=1315&CFID=745764&CFTOKEN=27566287


currently dr's are liberal with issuing a Recommendation for Cannabis b/c that recommendation is protected under freedom of speech; however, i dont think that the current liberal system is set in stone and if prop19 fails then that might give them the ammunition to make it harder to get a Medical Recommendation for Cannabis.

i hope im wrong about that but if im right then some people would be begging for prop19.

 

[zen_trikester]

The larger the gov the less liberties we have as individuals. California does not need the revenues. Mayor of Bell $800k a year, his assistant $400k,Cheif of Police $470K A YEAR. California brings in over $1.5 trillion a year in taxes. We pay enough taxes and our money is being misused. We have absolutely no reason to trust the gov will not end up taxing Marijuana $300+ per ounce and tell us where we have to buy it. I did not read a cap on the taxes that will be charged.... Guess what that means...There is no cap.

Marijuana should be kept as medicine. There are a lot of people out there that need the medicine and can currently write it off and deduct it from their taxes. Taxation is not legalization. This does nothing for federal law, nothing for the people already in jail, goes against patients rights, goes against free markets and goes backwards from the current law. I have never heard of anyone going to jail staying within the plant limits already in place. Has anyone here?

The biggest problems with the med laws are that they are still fueling corruption. Caregivers and patients are growing far more than they need and selling it. Was that the point of 215? So that somebody with a trick knee can grow pounds, smoke ounces and sell the rest? Money mongering is rampant with a lot of the dispensaries and they pay very little for product when you can get more on the street. So a guy with a perfectly legal garden is now able to grow enough to sell and this is not helping the crime problem. Many states, including mine, look at the crime problems and the CA cities struggling with out of control dispensaries as a reason to deny medical in states where bills come up. Many states are considering MMJ laws without allowing patients or caregivers to grow or allowing dispensaries because of how CA has taken advantage of the system. CA led the way and we are all thankful for that but it has now become an unregulated free-for-all and the current system isn't best for CA. Sure patients need medicine and some need a lot of it but most who are involved in MMJ are not in dire need of meds.

Certainly nobody wants to pay taxes, but in many ways we are paying them now every time we buy a sack. Between the growers and dealers who are a drain on or don't kick into the system, and the profit structure of illegal enterprise, we are paying overhead that could otherwise go to benefit the entire state. If they charge a $300 per ounce tax nobody will buy legally, I doubt they are so stupid as to inflate prices over and above current market... that would just be bad business!

As for your decrim laws, those are great but it isn't legality. If a cop wants to hassle you for smoking a joint he can. Sometimes they use the little things to try to find the big stuff, and prop 19 takes away all that power. prop 19 also wont allow the local guys to join in the DEA's little battles so as long as you follow the rules you will be fine. Prop 19 also prevents your employer from using the same tactics to fire your ass. As it is now, an employer can do a random drug test on and individual at any time and if you smoked last night or last weekend he can fire you. With prop 19 he would have to prove intoxication at the workplace. I know people who were let go from their jobs when the boss man didn't want them around for some reason and pulled a random on them hoping that they could fire them without paying any benefits or whatever. These are HUGE points in the prop 19 wording and are far better protection than decrim. Decrim still gives you a misdemeanor for your record. Those sneak up to bite you a lot harder than the $100 fine. People get denied jobs, business loans, and many other things because they have misdemeanors on their records!

The worst part is, regardless of your reasons for voting no, and even if you truly are championing the cause for a better prop, everyone will see your no vote as just a NO. All this nit picking just to prove to the world that California doesn't really want MJ legal. The point score will go to the people who want to kill the plant and not to the people who just want some wording changed!

Trike

 

[JJScorpio]

I think what it boils down to is there's 'a system within a system". What I mean is people have taken the med program and are now using it to make money within the program. If this Bill passes these people are afraid that the prices will drop because hundreds of thousands will now grow their own, along with those that buy the permits and "mass produce".

So are the ones making the money now willing to concede so everyone can grow and smoke legally within the boundaries or not? It seems not. So if this Bill has a chance of passing those that just want to be able to grow and smoke there own must outnumber those that are using the med programs and all it's avenues as a career, and those already growing commercially because of what they can sell it for.