ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[CrazyCooter]

In Sacramento work a group of fascists who have set up a corporate welfare state in which the wealth created by the workers of California is funneled through corporations and into the hands of a small percentage of the population. Unfortunately, all systems of political power seek to preserve their power by continually increasing their control over the individuals who power the system. This system has overburdened the workers of California to the point where most honest contributing members of the community cannot afford to live in that community without going into debt.

Prop 215 has created quite a situation for the fascists. The states biggest cash crop is being bought and sold in an underground economy which they are having a very difficult time regulating, controlling and taxing. Any mom or pop can set up a home business which produces a good return with little to no fear of prosecution and with no taxes or red tape. Maybe the fascists didn't see it coming but the authors of 215 really gave the individual worker in California a lot of power.

Any Californian over the age of 18 can get good cannabis for relatively cheap and face little to no fear of prosecution if they have less than an ounce. If you want to grow or need to have more than a small amount you can get a medical card and you are good to go. 8 ounces, 6 plants as big as you want, and the fascists can go screw themselves.

The morality of getting a medical card was mentioned in an earlier post but the fascist state knows no such thing as morality. It is my opinion that our modern society has created a situation where anyone who benefits from cannabis is a medical patient. If it makes you happier, you are a medical patient my friend. Get a card and the fascists can't touch you.

Since the fascists are running out of ways to tax the workers and have driven most business out of California, it is time to get their hands in this economy running around right under their noses. Imagine that, the biggest cash crop in the state with the lowest tax rate. Who is benefitting from this situation? The little guy. The average California smoker who can get the worlds best weed for cheap at almost any time with little to no fear of prosecution. Mom and Pop who just turned little Johnny's bedroom into a grow room to pay for his college also benefit. Good for the little guy, bad for the fascists.

Now what is this law really going to do? A wise man once said "by their fruits you shall know them." Prop 19 is going to do little to nothing to make the cannabis situation any better for voting Californians. Any Californian over the age of 21 who wants to be able to legally possess and grow cannabis needs only to get a medical card. No prosecution for up to 8 ounces and 6 plants, no taxes on any donations received from patients 18 or older, and no fascists tax on a plant.

In California right now we have the best of both worlds. The 215 authors really did a good job of giving this plant to the people. I can eat my cake and have it too. And so can you.

As far as I am concerned, there is a struggle of the individual against the fascist state we call our government. Some people don't struggle very hard these days and put faith in the fascists that were just jailing them to help them out. Growers and users of cannabis currently have the upper hand on the fascists that are going to enact prop 19.

Now what will be the fruits of prop 19? More felonies on the books for sharing cannabis. More taxes on California workers which will benefit the few through corporations. Nobody over 21 is going to jail with an ounce right now. The black market created by cannabis prohibition in California has created a situation that benefits the individual workers and not the fascists.

I am all for legalization, just against tax, control, and regulate. The end result of this prop will be the transfer of wealth out of the hands of the California worker and into the hands of corporations through taxation.

It is speculation that this will stop the 800,000 arrests not in California. It is speculation that this is the road to legalization. It takes some mental gymnastics to jump to the conclusion that other states will do as California has done.

It is true that nobody over the age of 21 is going to jail for an ounce or less. It is true that if you want to grow or fear prosecution you can be legal tomorrow. I know it is immoral to jump through a hoop to avoid the persecution created by immoral fascist laws but the state does not know or care about morality.

I am sorry if the fascists are throwing people in jail in other states but I have no control over that. I do have some control over what the fascists are doing in California and this prop will transfer power and wealth away from the workers of California and into the hands of the few. The current situation is better for me and every other mom and pop stoner in California under 215 without the corporate takeover of the cannabis market. The average Californian cannot afford any more taxes in any form. Many Californians grow so they can pay their current taxes.

I don't participate much in the scheme called government and last election day I went and bought a gun instead of voting. I will not vote yes for this law but I really don't believe participating in a corrupt system can ever produce a good situation for the majority of individuals. So you won't see a no either.

I just find it interesting how much the yessa massa icmagers are sugar coating the issue and playing right into the hands of the fascists.

Nobody over the age of 21 in Cali is going to jail for an ounce or less. This prop changes nothing. Anyone who wants to grow in a 5x5 space tax free and share produce with others tax free can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 does nothing to improve this. Anyone 18 or older who fears prosecution for ingesting cannabis can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 doesn't improve upon this.

Since the California worker has the upper hand on the fascists for once, I would hold out for a better prop.

The fascists can piss off until they write a proposition a little more in line with my idea of legalization. Like I tell my wife, "if someone wants a piece of my pie, better make it a threesome."

 

[localhero]

obviously this prop has serious flaws, otherwise there wouldnt be any opposition from the community. and the whole greed thing, guys it bothers me. people have valid gripes with 19. the least of which is greed. im voting for it, but i see the validity in the no vote from the ganja community.

it comes down to this:

can you live with the bulshit in 19 or cant you? do you have optimism in the community to push for positive change on 19 or dont you? do you believe another legalization prop in 2012 will pass after people already thought they voted on legalization in 2010?

if 19 worded the floors and limitations and taxes as :

persons of 18 years of age or older may cultivate and posses marijuana, the tax on sales of which may not exceed 10%.

not one person on this board would even whisper "no" it would be a forum about how we can all get active in our communities to educate people in the no camp.

there is a very real reason to make sure we as a community understand the faults and angles in 19. so when and if it passes we have a plan of action.

personally i dont see 19 changing anything much in the short term. the northern counties will have sales and store fronts and accessible commercial licensing and the rest of cali wont. it will be default position 215 for the vast majority of people in california. becasue unless you live in a 19 friendly county, you will still need your med card because there wont be a place for you to buy other than a dispensary. there may or may not be a shitstorm of feds waiting to come down on the few big dogs who get the first licenses in the northern areas and oakland.

and because the wording in 19 is meant to eliminate competition from average joes, those big dogs will take the hit head on. it would have been smarter to just fucking allow everyone to grow.

i cant drive 5x5 so i will be renewing my rec just like most of cali smokers come 2011.

alls 19 does for me is keep public opinion of weed on the positive side.

 

[Guest 88950]

blanco,

have you read this entire thread or the other threads relating to prop19 in this section of ICMAG?

most of your concerns have been gone over, and over, and over, and over.

probably why the short quick slamming responses you are getting.

since your covered by 215 then why are you concerned if the mass of noob growers legally growing within their Min 25 sq ft cant produce enough to supply their house hold.

they are at least cutting their teeth and learning LEGALLY.

go check out ANTI's micro cab and with practice and harvests under their belt they CAN learn to supply their entire house hold.

i sense you care by your response but do your self a favor and do some diggin through these threads b/c Every part of prop19 has been explained with links to verify.

thank you to those who have provided the explanations w/links.

 

[blancorasta]

CrazyCooter,
localhero, thank youuu... sensible people

if 19 worded the floors and limitations and taxes as :

persons of 18 years of age or older may cultivate and posses marijuana, the tax on sales of which may not exceed 10%.

not one person on this board would even whisper "no" it would be a forum about how we can all get active in our communities to educate people in the no camp.

there is a very real reason to make sure we as a community understand the faults and angles in 19. so when and if it passes we have a plan of action.

personally i dont see 19 changing anything much in the short term. the northern counties will have sales and store fronts and accessible commercial licensing and the rest of cali wont. it will be default position 215 for the vast majority of people in california. becasue unless you live in a 19 friendly county, you will still need your med card because there wont be a place for you to buy other than a dispensary. there may or may not be a shitstorm of feds waiting to come down on the few big dogs who get the first licenses in the northern areas and oakland.

and because the wording in 19 is meant to eliminate competition from average joes, those big dogs will take the hit head on. it would have been smarter to just fucking allow everyone to grow.

i cant drive 5x5 so i will be renewing my rec just like most of cali smokers come 2011.

alls 19 does for me is keep public opinion of weed on the positive side.

4 sure

peace

 

[Anti]

Well, because it not true legalization.

What would be truly legal? Taxing it and allowing people over 21 to consume it at home or in private establishments that serve it? Cuz that's what we'll be getting.

Are you battling the prohibition on alcohol because it still has restrictions?

You've probably only ever tasted your own moonshine, because if it ain't 100% legal, you won't have anything to do with it, right?

 

[localhero]

anti is a fantastic grower with great skill, and his method will help alot of california residents stuck in dry counties.

it just really really bothers me though when people act stoked about bein confined to 5x5.

unless i lived in a small apt where i HAD to grow in a small cab, no way in hell will anyone ever convince me to praise jesus hallelluya over 25 damn ft.

look im sure i would be able to take side streets from la to yreka, but id rather take the highway and get there faster.

I CANT DRIVE 5x5 fuck that. i loooooove big plants!!!!!!!!!!!! and if i have to move to a friendly county to do so, well you northern guys with all your untapped power in the form of lobbying money had all the chances in the world to get together and write a better prop.

but you fucking didnt and now you let r fucking lee put together a whisper crap petition that put everyone in a stupid spot to vote yes on it.

i hope im welcomed with open arms to the liberal counties, and not have my house burned down or my dog shot or get my life threatened.

and bet if i was connected in the pot community up north, i would have made something happen well before some prick like richard lee got the jump on me.

 

[Anti]

hey all,
prop 19 boils down to state government taxing the shit out us because WE SHOULD BE HAPPY WERE NOT GOING TO JAIL FOR A WEED. im fine with an 8% sales tax but not some outragouse "sin" tax

So don't buy it. Grow your own. No tax.

ok everyone please think about this here...

After you, good sir... after you.

right now in cali small amounts of weed (1 ounce or less) is decriminalized, you just get a ticket for $100 and u might get your weed taken maybe. anything more and its felony charges. whats going to change after prop 19 passes?

If this passes you can carry 1 ounce on you without having it taken or paying $100. You can also have pounds and pounds and pounds in your home.

That's a significant step forward, if you ask me.

1 ounce or less is legal to posses, use, share, and transport but NOT SALE. anything more and its a felony, u sell any felony.

Yeah. So don't sell it. OR go through the motions and pay the fees to get the license to sell it in your municipality. Just like any guy who wants to open a bar or liquor store would have to do.

prop 19 really doesnt change anything (just like obama). think about it instead of getting a ticket your just paying your fine and court fees ahead of time in the form of TAX.

Unless you grow your own, tax free.

if its illegal for me to sell u some of my buds where do you get yours to posses in the first place?

I grow it myself. How did you get yours?

from richard lee's oakland wharehouse grow, the same guy who is spending over a million dollars to get this bill passed he's gonna monopolize the market. he'll be the one of the only guys who can legally sell

Right now, NOBODY can legally sell recreational marijuana. If he corners the market, I don't see how it would be WORSE and I don't think it's very damn likely. Americans are funny about monopolies... we don't like them.

how is any of this fair or "free"?

Ever buy a six pack of beer at the grocery store? You paid a tax. How is that fair or free?

Oh... right. you could've brewed your own at home, but you didn't mind paying the "sin" tax to get a couple of Budweiser in your fridge.

Anybody who wants to "free the weed" should vote YES and then quietly (without announcing it to anyone) start growing their own 5x5, and breathe easy that local police will not be spending any manpower to come looking for you.

If you wanna take more than an ounce with you when you leave home bring a friend.

 

[vta]

hey all,

when i read these threads i get the feeling that people seem to forget that this is a California situation. and it seems like people are projecting their situations onto the issue of prop 19.

So...any member of this site can post in any thread.

yes cannabis prohibition is bullshit, and i would welcome true legalization with warm loving open arms. but thats not we have on our plate here as Californians.

Yes this is legalization. Prop19 will make it legal to grow, legal to posses, legal to purchase and legal to give it away...just cause your such a nice guy

why doest it seem that everyone thinks this is a one shot deal or something. i keep reading posts that read as if prop 19 doesnt pass its gonna set some kind of precedence that Cali wont stand for recreational use and it will never happen which is absurd. another bill could always be drafted, put on the ballot and become another proposition. or look at gay marriage. they started getting married. we voted on it we succesfully banned gay marriage and now look whats happening. if voting on an issue doesnt set a precedence on something what short of the supreme court can?

OK...it is an 'opinion' that if 19 fails it could cause a blacklash. I can also back that up but I wont get into that 'again'. But I want YOU to show me what other prop is in the works. I mean a "real" one...with a link. If you think we should wait for something better, that's your prerogative however you are foolish to think that if 19 fails that a less restrictive prop would not. And not very compassionate to the millions of recreational smokers who this law WILL help.

what we have is a propostition based soley and entirly on greed, and the problems i have with it is based on civil liberties.
as a (recent) mmj patient i shouldnt be affected to much by prop 19 as long as it doesnt infringe on prop 215 , which i personally think is nieve to believe.

Who cares what the authors intentions are? It is VERY clear what the law is...anyone that can read can see that it does more than just setup the 'possibilities' for commercial growers. It LEGALIZES marijuana! I could give a rats ass, or yours for that matter, about R. Lee and his 2 not even running warehouses. Soon after 19 passes there are going to be hundreds of R Lee's...It's the American way. Are you upset that R. Lee started a med club, risked his freedom, invested his own money into a prop that not only legitimizes his industry, it gives the "recreational" user a free pass to grow their own, keep as much as they want and not ever have to fear going to jail. Are you some young kid that knows nothing about the real world or are you older and don't have much money because you are not educated or couldn't succeed in rl and get pissed when you see someone driving a $100,000 car...do you call them names too? I am not defending his intentions but like I said who cares,,,regardless he has done MORE than YOU for our cause.

yet it wasnt long ago i was "legally" only a "recreational" user so im not so disconnected.

It seems your are in fact, disconnected.

here are some things i take acception to

1 the prop limits personal consumption by limiting possesion to an ounce (which is how it is now, except under prop 19 you get taxed everytime instead of fined 1/???,??? times)

Wrong! 19 does not limit personal consumption...get it right! The ONLY limits on cultivated amounts are imposed on public possession and transportation. Now...you that have that clear...explain to me why someone needs to carry more than an ounce with them to the concert or wherever they are going. Remember!!! We are talking about the "recreational" pot smoker and not a medical user...they already have a law. And btw...only a law with limitations would ever get passed by the masses. You think you should be able to carry a pound with you, as a recreational user? That would mean you are dealing and once again....this law is about the recreational user. Getting it yet?

use more weed than you can grow in a 5x5 area, and your in the same boat.

Wrong! You can have pounds and pounds and pounds and pounds. You really should read the law.

in other words " here is a tiny little snippet of civil right guaranteed to you by the constitution...But your gonna PAY HA HA HA HA HAAAaaa especially if you step out of line"

Yeah hahahah...it's real funny. What's even funnier is trying to figure out the correct word to use for someone that thinks going from felony to legal is a snippet. I mean really. With 19 you can now for the 1st time in our lives, grow, smoke, posses and buy pot all legally. I think that considering that there are only a couple places in the whole world with less restrictive laws{and you don't want to go there} than what 19 is says a lot about the "snippet" of rights granted.

2 if you cant fully supply yourself or you cant grow some fire; because lets face it if everyone everywhere could all grow some fire ass dank there would be no demad for it which will never happen, you are forced to purchase from certain organizations. or your in the same boat if not worse than you are now

this is were the majority of the greed comes into play

where is the "Free Market" in that equation???

This is where an education can do wonders for peeps. I can and do grow the "fire" as you say....but this isn't about me...and this isn't about you. This is about everyone else. Let them secise if thye want to grow or if they want to buy from 7/11. Also...whats stopping you from becoming involved on the commercial side? Tell us. You seem to have it out against people wanting to make money all the while defending the people already making money. Where is the mediation? We are talking about taking something worth its weight in gold and making it legal. Of course there are going to be thousands of people trying to get their piece. Want to know something else...the guys growing the good shit now are in the best position. I can see it already....You got your shit down, I mean it's, like you say, Fire, so you head down to your credit union, show them your killer and get your start-up loan lol now your R. Lee jr.

3 it is a sloppy poorly written bill that leaves alot to interpritation and local govt and law inforcement.

See...again I question your ability to understand how things are done{being nice there}. This prop was crafted so carefully that it will be implemented upon approval of the vote. If it was drafted anyother way it would of put the state in 'direct' conflict with federal law and would of gone straight to court.

Since you seem confused maybe I can help. What do you think LEO will have a hard time with? I don't think much as most of them can read and will be thoroughly briefed on their "game" changing tactics. Briefing rooms all over the state will start off like this..." Al right guys because of this damn prop 19 we can't use the smell of pot as an excuse to fuck up these miserable dopers life's anymore. Nor will we be able to enter their house if we see a bong on the table etc.."

why in Cali where anyone who wants a mmj recommendation can get one because herb helps everyone medicinally if they use it right. and thats all thats required history of a condition that can benefit from mmj use, trouble sleeping??? go to your doc and prescribed some sleep aid. take a copie of your medical record and you prescription to a mmj doctor pay your doctor visit and thats it.

if you use weed it undeniably helps you in some way doesnt it? wiether just lifting your mood, maybe you have mild chronic depression??? unwind from stress, or help you sleep. even the average recreational user self medicates with it some way.[/QUOTE]


Again....this has nothing to do with medical cannabis. come one already!

and finally 4 the OVER taxation.
PROP 19 Does not make recreational cannabis use legal.

Again...WRONG! It is legalization as I have pointed out. How can you can it does not make recreation use legal when that is what it does...That has got to be the absolute dumbest thing said throughout this entire thread.

again i dont like how this prop is written, intended to fool people. you think weed is legal but really only an ounce, which is the same as it is now except basically your going spend an ass load more money on taxes than you ever did on possesion tickets. AND THATS THE TRUTH...WITH SOME CHEESE ON IT! LOL

am i wrong?

peace

Yes...but i am getting tired of you so I'll let someone else bite this one

are you aware that its up to city and county govt to ALLOW you to legally use and grow

Dude...you are soooo WRONG! I take back what I said about your other comment being the stupidest...this one beats it. How about you actually read the prop before sprouting off bullshit eh'

and if you do live an area that allows it and you need to grow more than a 5x5 to meet you personal consumtion needs you do need to make a purchase. dude... think man.

how are you ok with someone telling you how much you can have for personal consumption and any more must be with intent to distribute?

Wrong Wrong Wrong...EVERY adult 21 and over in California can grow in a space no larger than 25 square feet. Not 5x5, not IF your area allows because they have no choice and no voice in the matter. This law give everyone the right to grow. The only a city can do is allowing commercial growing, distribution and sales of pot...they don't even have to tax it if they don't want to. they have no control over people growing their own. Period.

and everyone i am not talikng about myself i have a medical recommendation and can fully supply myself legally. but these are civil liberty issuse than need attention. this is like the trojan horse of marijuana reform.

Alright....there you go..Who are you? Who do you work for? You are not ANYone I would associate with. And it's not your lack of intelligence either. Did you get that one from your handbook?

I LOVE WEED, I WISH IT WAS WORTHLESS AND EVERYONE HAD A TON AND WE COULD ALL JUST EAT AND CHILL AND BURN.

SO FUCK ALL OF YOU GUYS WHO ARE TALKIN SHIT ABOUT ME NOT WANTING LEGALIZATION, I WASNT TALKIN ANY SHIT TO ANYONE..... im a chill dude

peace

how is any of this relevant to me or what i posted...that you quoted? WTF? i clearly stated im cool with a sales tax.... fucking idoits are really starting to wear me thin

lol

 

[vta]

blancorasta...I + rep'd ya cause i felt I was a little harsh. Please read the law then read this thread from the beginning. All your questions and fears should be answered by then. is the law perfect..NO...far from it...but it is better that what the recreational user has now...which is a possible felony.

 

[Anti]

anti is a fantastic grower with great skill, and his method will help alot of california residents stuck in dry counties.

I am simply trying to remain too small to be bustable.

it just really really bothers me though when people act stoked about bein confined to 5x5.

It's your perspective. I'd rather there were no limits... but currently, I can LEGALLY grow 0 plants in a 0x0 space. With this prop, I could LEGALLY grow a *MINIMUM* of whatever I can grow in a 5x5 space. And simple mathematics says that I can grow RIDICULOUSLY MORE than I will ever conceivably be able to smoke on my own!

unless i lived in a small apt where i HAD to grow in a small cab, no way in hell will anyone ever convince me to praise jesus hallelluya over 25 damn ft.

It's efficiency. Currently you're looking at felony jail time if you are caught cultivating 25 sq feet. You're looking at thousands on legal fees and bail and probation or worse. Permanently etched onto your record, affecting your search for jobs, ability to run for office, etc.

I can think of several ways to grow more smoke than I will ever need (unless I wanted to sell it) in 25 sq ft.

I can also imagine what it would be like to have 3 acres under cultivation. But I'm willing to start SOMEWHERE rather than NOWHERE.

Am I supposed to hold out and be a criminal because I'm not able to grow 4 acres?

Blacks were slaves. Then they freed the slaves. Later, they integrated the restrooms. Later, they integrated the movie theaters and restaurants. Later, they integrated the buses. Later, they integrated the schools. It's still being worked on.

Things don't go from illegal to 100% "free" overnight, and there are damn few things in this world that would qualify under that "100% free" banner!

This is a healthy step forward, an affirmation of cannabis positive qualities and an opportunity for Reefer Madness to be exposed for the lie and propaganda that it is.

Vote NO if you want to be a tool of your enemy. (Remember 1984? Who started the revolution? Big Brother.)

Vote YES if you want to help to legitimize cannabis in the eyes of the American public at large.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Prop 19 does nothing better than 215 already does. It does allow the fascists to access a market cornered by the average Joe at this point and transfer wealth and power away from the many and into the few. If you are over 18 and a California residence legalization can be yours tomorrow. Its called 215 and it keeps money and power in the hands of the individual and out of the fascists'. Californians can't afford another tax. The fascists need to learn how to share a little more. 10% owns 90% but that isn't good enough for some. Enough taxes, in any form.

 

[squarepush3r]

The only good thing I see about prop 19, is that just "smelling weed" won't be probably cause for a search anymore. Since say you are allowed to have 5x5 space, and lets say in fact you have a 10x10 space, just an officer smelling is not reason for a search warrant. In fact, I don't know how they would get a warrant to check, unless you are drawing like 30,000 watts, or there is visual evidence.

 

[rives]

Cooter, some of the points that you have made are interesting, but you really should go back and read this thread. There are innumerable reasons to stay away from a 215 rec, and they have all been touched on in here numerous times. The bulk of the population can't survive living your "screw the fascists" philosophy, and this bill is for them. People who are professionals, who are subject to workplace drug testing, who might be placed in an untenable position by having things in their medical record that the "fascists" would delight in finding. And for them, paying a tax to achieve this peace of mind would be a damn good bargain.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.....

 

[rives]

The only good thing I see about prop 19, is that just "smelling weed" won't be probably cause for a search anymore. Since say you are allowed to have 5x5 space, and lets say in fact you have a 10x10 space, just an officer smelling is not reason for a search warrant. In fact, I don't know how they would get a warrant to check, unless you are drawing like 30,000 watts, or there is visual evidence.

Yeah, that plus no rec, no quack, no fee, no renewal, no peter tracks all over the medical records, no limit on personal possession in the home, no drug testing without cause, no cartels, no hypocrisy, no shit!

 

[localhero]

anti:

ive tried to see if i can get down and be excited about 25', i even searched through some threads on micro grows.

alot of people will have to learn how to make the most out of 25. and thats where people like you and the micro community will play an important part in educating people how to be successful.

for me, i will never be happy or look forward to that small a space. and luckily i dont have to rely on 19 to get my space, i have better protection under 215 for cultivating more than 25'.

i dont have zero, i have a dr.

i completely understand if you feel guilt about going to a doc. i respect that. ive never taken any money from the gov. ive never claimed workmans comp even when i could have after getting hit by a bus that was illegally backing up on a one way street with an illegal driver(luckily i had my hardhat on). i brushed myself off, let the bleeding stop and went on with my life. and ive never collected unemployement.

in fact, once i was in a head on collision with a drunk driver illegaly making a left turn on a red. 50 mph head on. i got glass in my forehead, was blind in one eye for about an hour. i somehow got out of the car was loopy for a bit, thanked god i played football and had a thick neck for taking the windshield head on. and i never sued. i was just happy to be alive.


215 was worded to be inclusive and i will be using it for what it was intended. and i will be using it because i dont want or need to be confined to a small space for my grow.

i want people to fight for more space than 25, not be complacent with 25.

also vta, i know you know the wording on 19 very well, so i dont know if it was a slip, but:

7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

--

meaning if you dont tax it, you cant sell it. so counties must tax cannabis sales.

 

[CrazyCooter]

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.....

You got the one in the hand right now. Why do you need to trade it for two in the bush?

 

[vta]

why? bush is always better than the hand of course

 

[LessIsMore]

In Sacramento work a group of fascists who have set up a corporate welfare state in which the wealth created by the workers of California is funneled through corporations and into the hands of a small percentage of the population. Unfortunately, all systems of political power seek to preserve their power by continually increasing their control over the individuals who power the system. This system has overburdened the workers of California to the point where most honest contributing members of the community cannot afford to live in that community without going into debt.

Prop 215 has created quite a situation for the fascists. The states biggest cash crop is being bought and sold in an underground economy which they are having a very difficult time regulating, controlling and taxing. Any mom or pop can set up a home business which produces a good return with little to no fear of prosecution and with no taxes or red tape. Maybe the fascists didn't see it coming but the authors of 215 really gave the individual worker in California a lot of power.

Any Californian over the age of 18 can get good cannabis for relatively cheap and face little to no fear of prosecution if they have less than an ounce. If you want to grow or need to have more than a small amount you can get a medical card and you are good to go. 8 ounces, 6 plants as big as you want, and the fascists can go screw themselves.

The morality of getting a medical card was mentioned in an earlier post but the fascist state knows no such thing as morality. It is my opinion that our modern society has created a situation where anyone who benefits from cannabis is a medical patient. If it makes you happier, you are a medical patient my friend. Get a card and the fascists can't touch you.

Since the fascists are running out of ways to tax the workers and have driven most business out of California, it is time to get their hands in this economy running around right under their noses. Imagine that, the biggest cash crop in the state with the lowest tax rate. Who is benefitting from this situation? The little guy. The average California smoker who can get the worlds best weed for cheap at almost any time with little to no fear of prosecution. Mom and Pop who just turned little Johnny's bedroom into a grow room to pay for his college also benefit. Good for the little guy, bad for the fascists.

Now what is this law really going to do? A wise man once said "by their fruits you shall know them." Prop 19 is going to do little to nothing to make the cannabis situation any better for voting Californians. Any Californian over the age of 21 who wants to be able to legally possess and grow cannabis needs only to get a medical card. No prosecution for up to 8 ounces and 6 plants, no taxes on any donations received from patients 18 or older, and no fascists tax on a plant.

In California right now we have the best of both worlds. The 215 authors really did a good job of giving this plant to the people. I can eat my cake and have it too. And so can you.

As far as I am concerned, there is a struggle of the individual against the fascist state we call our government. Some people don't struggle very hard these days and put faith in the fascists that were just jailing them to help them out. Growers and users of cannabis currently have the upper hand on the fascists that are going to enact prop 19.

Now what will be the fruits of prop 19? More felonies on the books for sharing cannabis. More taxes on California workers which will benefit the few through corporations. Nobody over 21 is going to jail with an ounce right now. The black market created by cannabis prohibition in California has created a situation that benefits the individual workers and not the fascists.

I am all for legalization, just against tax, control, and regulate. The end result of this prop will be the transfer of wealth out of the hands of the California worker and into the hands of corporations through taxation.

It is speculation that this will stop the 800,000 arrests not in California. It is speculation that this is the road to legalization. It takes some mental gymnastics to jump to the conclusion that other states will do as California has done.

It is true that nobody over the age of 21 is going to jail for an ounce or less. It is true that if you want to grow or fear prosecution you can be legal tomorrow. I know it is immoral to jump through a hoop to avoid the persecution created by immoral fascist laws but the state does not know or care about morality.

I am sorry if the fascists are throwing people in jail in other states but I have no control over that. I do have some control over what the fascists are doing in California and this prop will transfer power and wealth away from the workers of California and into the hands of the few. The current situation is better for me and every other mom and pop stoner in California under 215 without the corporate takeover of the cannabis market. The average Californian cannot afford any more taxes in any form. Many Californians grow so they can pay their current taxes.

I don't participate much in the scheme called government and last election day I went and bought a gun instead of voting. I will not vote yes for this law but I really don't believe participating in a corrupt system can ever produce a good situation for the majority of individuals. So you won't see a no either.

I just find it interesting how much the yessa massa icmagers are sugar coating the issue and playing right into the hands of the fascists.

Nobody over the age of 21 in Cali is going to jail for an ounce or less. This prop changes nothing. Anyone who wants to grow in a 5x5 space tax free and share produce with others tax free can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 does nothing to improve this. Anyone 18 or older who fears prosecution for ingesting cannabis can be legal tomorrow. Prop 19 doesn't improve upon this.

Since the California worker has the upper hand on the fascists for once, I would hold out for a better prop.

The fascists can piss off until they write a proposition a little more in line with my idea of legalization. Like I tell my wife, "if someone wants a piece of my pie, better make it a threesome."

That there just about sums it up bro!!

 

[subrob]

for the 'no' voters.....lets get a fresh perspective for a sec...as many of the 'no' voters seemed to have realized, throwing the same arguments up over and over and over and over, and having guys like anti and vta completely......shred and DESTROY these...errrrr....opinions and statements based purely on internet gossip and...uh....'blurred' logic(actually, its just blur minus the logic)...is not doing your side any favors....i think the best strategy you folks have of converting people to the immoral stance of prohibition and voting no on prop19 is to LET THE COPS, DISTRICT ATTORNEYS AND POLITICIANS DO THIER OWN JOBS...they are much better suited to trying to convert canna heads over to the side of keeping pot illegal....you folks are not doing your side any favors...you all DO REALIZE this is a sight for people who love cannabis correct? everytime one of you posts the same freakin objection, which in turn, is overcome by anywhere from 1 to 5 people at a time, and then turn around a page later and say the same thing, AGAIN, it just really makes the argument look dumb....and then we get a new guy w 17 posts who starts the whole process over....anyways, i just thought y'all might wanna know how much damage your doing the new 'potheads against pot' movement