moonymonkey
Active member
read somewere that if you add hydrogen p....to water,wait 2 hours,it wont harm the good microherd or enzymes,if used to water organic grow? true or not? if this question has been asked before,please disregard? peace
Hydrogen peroxide used on a all organic grow??
- Thread starter moonymonkey
- Start date
I use H202 all the time. This is why and how:
I use it to prevent bacteria from growing in my reservoir tank. I use about a tablespoon per 10 gallons (regular hydrogen peroxide from the grocery store). It's not an exact science really.
I add it every time I top the rez up. It lasts for several days, keeps all slime off the walls of the tank, and keeps the water clear and clean. If you happen to find that your water is getting a little nasty-looking, you can add H202 and use it after a few hours and a vigorous stirring.
The miraculous way it keeps the water and rez clean also points to the probability that H202 is very harmful to bacteria, both good and bad bacteria.
So allowing it to sit for 12-24 hours is a very good idea. Again, I add it (and stir it up) when I top up the tank, and don't use the water until about 24 hours later.
I'm not sure of the exact science behind how long it takes for a given amount of H202 to be depleted in water, but I DO know that 24 hours seems to be more than enough time to kill bacteria, then degrade to non harmful levels. Works like a charm for me... I wouldn't do without it now that I know how well it works for my purposes.
As for oxygen... I notice that my water is still perfectly clear 24 hours after adding the H202, which is a good indication that there's still plenty of oxygen in the water. WAter without oxygen becomes anaerobic, leading to bacterial growth. The excess of oxygen after adding the H202 is probably what kills bacteria.
I would NOT use water within minutes of adding H202 when growing with organic methods. Wait several hours at least, and if you're using it soon after adding H202, then please stir the SHIT out of it first to give yourself a fighting chance.
cc
I use it to prevent bacteria from growing in my reservoir tank. I use about a tablespoon per 10 gallons (regular hydrogen peroxide from the grocery store). It's not an exact science really.
I add it every time I top the rez up. It lasts for several days, keeps all slime off the walls of the tank, and keeps the water clear and clean. If you happen to find that your water is getting a little nasty-looking, you can add H202 and use it after a few hours and a vigorous stirring.
The miraculous way it keeps the water and rez clean also points to the probability that H202 is very harmful to bacteria, both good and bad bacteria.
So allowing it to sit for 12-24 hours is a very good idea. Again, I add it (and stir it up) when I top up the tank, and don't use the water until about 24 hours later.
I'm not sure of the exact science behind how long it takes for a given amount of H202 to be depleted in water, but I DO know that 24 hours seems to be more than enough time to kill bacteria, then degrade to non harmful levels. Works like a charm for me... I wouldn't do without it now that I know how well it works for my purposes.
As for oxygen... I notice that my water is still perfectly clear 24 hours after adding the H202, which is a good indication that there's still plenty of oxygen in the water. WAter without oxygen becomes anaerobic, leading to bacterial growth. The excess of oxygen after adding the H202 is probably what kills bacteria.
I would NOT use water within minutes of adding H202 when growing with organic methods. Wait several hours at least, and if you're using it soon after adding H202, then please stir the SHIT out of it first to give yourself a fighting chance.
cc
charlesweedmore
Member
some growers says h2o2 good for organics and provide extra o2 for beneficals while others put forward h2o2 kills all living microherds in compost.
the decision is yours but if i were you,i wouldnt use it unless i exactly knew what i was doing .
the decision is yours but if i were you,i wouldnt use it unless i exactly knew what i was doing .
Hello all,
I have been using h2o2 in my soil grows with organic ewc teas supplimented with molasses/alaska fish/ejbloom/lk.
I add 20cc of 3% h2o2 to 1 liter of fert solution just at the time of poring into pot and have crazy root growth now along with an elimination of fungus gnats.
I see no deficiencies other then cal/mag but this is due to my water supply (city water using sequestering agents).
As to the bacteria...it is true that there is a mortality but the added O2 acclerates reproduction.
In addition, the h2o2 will react with particles in the soil that act as a catalyst. This in effect releases the O2 into solution.
There is a thread....though many say it will kill your grow I have yet at the levels noted above.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=102394&highlight=h2o2
minds_I
I have been using h2o2 in my soil grows with organic ewc teas supplimented with molasses/alaska fish/ejbloom/lk.
I add 20cc of 3% h2o2 to 1 liter of fert solution just at the time of poring into pot and have crazy root growth now along with an elimination of fungus gnats.
I see no deficiencies other then cal/mag but this is due to my water supply (city water using sequestering agents).
As to the bacteria...it is true that there is a mortality but the added O2 acclerates reproduction.
In addition, the h2o2 will react with particles in the soil that act as a catalyst. This in effect releases the O2 into solution.
There is a thread....though many say it will kill your grow I have yet at the levels noted above.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=102394&highlight=h2o2
minds_I
Why would I want to?
Just curious.
Just curious.
moonymonkey
Active member
hey burn1,sounds lik good advice,dont take a chance if you dont have to...just wanted to know all optoins...thats just me...thinkin exsperminting...just for the knowledge an pun intended...deliberate..dig..lol...always up for somthing new..and thnx for reples to thread...peace moon/stoned pony
Hello all,
Why do folks add all kinds of stuff to their grows.
I will conceed that it is counter to intuiety but for me the results speak for themselves.
This is just my experience...
Keep in mind that "Good results stem from experience, not from the obedient application of divine methods dictated by a few infallible masters."
Do experiment.
minds_I
Amon
Active member
Well guys. I used to use this stuff my self. Then while reading some issues of Urban Garden Mag I ran across some great ariticles on Myth's and Misleadings.
Basically it says this stuff is just a gimmick. I know when I was using it regularly I was having issues I've never faced before and it took me forever to relate it to my water. I was preparing my water days in advance by leaving the lid off to disipate chlorine, this does not work. Adding Hydrogen peroxide to your water actually causes the same affects that form rust.
Try using distilled water on one plant, mix your foods a few days prior to needing them and run a fish tank pump with air stone in it during this time. This is the best way to oxygenate your roots and assure the foods your using are not being affected negatively by yucky stuff in your tap water.
I still have this article if anyone would like me to elaborate. Remember, I too thought this stuff worked until reading this okay. cheers
Basically it says this stuff is just a gimmick. I know when I was using it regularly I was having issues I've never faced before and it took me forever to relate it to my water. I was preparing my water days in advance by leaving the lid off to disipate chlorine, this does not work. Adding Hydrogen peroxide to your water actually causes the same affects that form rust.
Try using distilled water on one plant, mix your foods a few days prior to needing them and run a fish tank pump with air stone in it during this time. This is the best way to oxygenate your roots and assure the foods your using are not being affected negatively by yucky stuff in your tap water.
I still have this article if anyone would like me to elaborate. Remember, I too thought this stuff worked until reading this okay. cheers
Hello all,
Just because I feel all alone here on h2o2 use.
I picked this up fromt he linked thread above and thought I would post it.
It speaks directly to soil microbial interactions:
Bioremediation
INTEROX® Hydrogen Peroxide can also be used to enhance aerobic biodegradation by injecting
a very dilute solution at frequent intervals. The product generates oxygen on delivery due
to decomposition resulting from contact with contaminants, transition metals and microbial
enzymes. Concentrations used for enhanced bioremediation are between 0.5 – 6% by weight.
It was also determined that use of more concentrated INTEROX® Hydrogen Peroxide for contaminant
oxidation tends to temporarily decrease the microbial count immediately after application. However,
over time the microbial count is found to be thriving more than the same soil that was untreated
with hydrogen peroxide.
http://www.solvaychemicals.us/static/wma/pdf/8/3/6/4/HP-H2O2.pdf
minds_I
Just because I feel all alone here on h2o2 use.
I picked this up fromt he linked thread above and thought I would post it.
It speaks directly to soil microbial interactions:
Bioremediation
INTEROX® Hydrogen Peroxide can also be used to enhance aerobic biodegradation by injecting
a very dilute solution at frequent intervals. The product generates oxygen on delivery due
to decomposition resulting from contact with contaminants, transition metals and microbial
enzymes. Concentrations used for enhanced bioremediation are between 0.5 – 6% by weight.
It was also determined that use of more concentrated INTEROX® Hydrogen Peroxide for contaminant
oxidation tends to temporarily decrease the microbial count immediately after application. However,
over time the microbial count is found to be thriving more than the same soil that was untreated
with hydrogen peroxide.
http://www.solvaychemicals.us/static/wma/pdf/8/3/6/4/HP-H2O2.pdf
minds_I
Define "over time".
Whenever I see bullshit words like "biodegradation" (decomp) and "bioremediation" (???), I shut right down. Was that statement written by the superthrive marketing team?
When will people learn you can't do anything to solve a problem you don't have?
Whenever I see bullshit words like "biodegradation" (decomp) and "bioremediation" (???), I shut right down. Was that statement written by the superthrive marketing team?
When will people learn you can't do anything to solve a problem you don't have?
Hello all,
Maryjohn, perhaps you could do some reading on the subject.
I do not know how long "over time" represents.
Follow the link to the thread in post #6 and in there you will find other links to the studies done with h2o2 as well as venturi hyper-oxygenation methods.
The results of these studies were positive.
Further, the above paragraph was reffering to more concentrated applications showed bacterial mortality.
But hey, you know, if you don't want to read or even if you do not believe its all cool.
But, as far as credibility, I would think a recongized research paper on the subject carries more weight then any advice given on pot magizine...including my own.
So take it with a grain of salt.
minds_I
Maryjohn, perhaps you could do some reading on the subject.
I do not know how long "over time" represents.
Follow the link to the thread in post #6 and in there you will find other links to the studies done with h2o2 as well as venturi hyper-oxygenation methods.
The results of these studies were positive.
Further, the above paragraph was reffering to more concentrated applications showed bacterial mortality.
But hey, you know, if you don't want to read or even if you do not believe its all cool.
But, as far as credibility, I would think a recongized research paper on the subject carries more weight then any advice given on pot magizine...including my own.
So take it with a grain of salt.
minds_I
Oxygen enrichment isn't really the point in and of itself... in my opinion H202 is best for maintaining the health of my water source.
If I let my water sit for two days without H202, a light scum begins to form on the surface of the water and on the surface of the reservoir.
If I add a tablespoon of H202 to the reservoir, the scum never starts. The water also retains its brilliance and clarity with H202 added.
I have even added H202 to water that has begun to get the scum film, and it knocked the shit out of the bacterial growth in minutes.
H202 can also be helpful in ridding hydro setups of bacterial growth at the roots.
If I let my water sit for two days without H202, a light scum begins to form on the surface of the water and on the surface of the reservoir.
If I add a tablespoon of H202 to the reservoir, the scum never starts. The water also retains its brilliance and clarity with H202 added.
I have even added H202 to water that has begun to get the scum film, and it knocked the shit out of the bacterial growth in minutes.
H202 can also be helpful in ridding hydro setups of bacterial growth at the roots.
Hello all,
Never said it was a problem...just an enhancement technique.
Read...there is indeed sicience behind what I spout.
It works for me and like I said an actual published paper on the subject carries more weight then any of the guros or myself on the subject in general on a pot mag.
It is not necessarily bunk.
Just read it:
http://cpws.cqu.edu.au/FCWViewer/getFile.do?id=25110
minds_I
ok, I just read the article, and I don't find it supports your point, but rather raises the prospect of confirming something further down the line, vis-a-vis surface drip irrigation (SDI) only. The authors are careful about not making wild claims. The studies conducted were small field trials, and the authors make no claims about h2o2 use for potted plants. It also points out another way to oxygenate water: mechanical aeration. The reason for using H202 instead of mechanical aeration on a large scale SDI system is given as economy (H2O2 is not cheaper, but for a large scale system has lower initial capital costs, whereas mechanical aeration takes 15 years to pay off). So first I must point out that it costs very little to aerate water for an indoor soil grow. It can be done by putting your water in a container and shaking it, or simply transferring from one container to another.
Unless you are using an SDI system (not bloody likely), the study excerpt you posted is really not related to your grow, as your plants are not likely to experience anoxic water. If you get it out of the tap, it's highly aerated, and if you catch rainwater it's aerated when you catch it. Then, the process of pouring it into your containers or watering tray aerates it again. So where is the need? If you want to be sure, put it in a jug and shake it. Voilà!
Like i said, it's an unnecessary solution to a non-existent problem. H202 can only help you if your water and your soil are anoxic, which is highly unlikely. SDI water is heated to high temperatures and becomes anoxic in that irrigation tape, unlike the water we use for indoor plants, which undergoes all kinds of churning as we apply it. As the study states,
minds i - thanks for cajoling me into reading that. I learned something, and that is always good.
Hydro- that's another forum, not my thing.
Unless you are using an SDI system (not bloody likely), the study excerpt you posted is really not related to your grow, as your plants are not likely to experience anoxic water. If you get it out of the tap, it's highly aerated, and if you catch rainwater it's aerated when you catch it. Then, the process of pouring it into your containers or watering tray aerates it again. So where is the need? If you want to be sure, put it in a jug and shake it. Voilà!
Like i said, it's an unnecessary solution to a non-existent problem. H202 can only help you if your water and your soil are anoxic, which is highly unlikely. SDI water is heated to high temperatures and becomes anoxic in that irrigation tape, unlike the water we use for indoor plants, which undergoes all kinds of churning as we apply it. As the study states,
. I do feel you have unintentionally misinterpreted and misrepresented the article, and there is no science behind the practice of adding H202 to water in soil grown potted plants. Not to pick on anybody, but it's this kind of confirmation-seeking that biases MJ growers towards wasting money on unnecessary solutions to problems they don't have. Then, when they get great results, they often assume post hoc, ergo propter hoc, and that their actions caused whatever happened to happen directly. H2O2 is a fine disinfectant, wound cleaner, tool cleaner, etc... but there is no reason to add it to your water if all you want is to oxygenate the roots. Good drainage and parsimonious watering do that for you. The soil breathes.
minds i - thanks for cajoling me into reading that. I learned something, and that is always good.
Hydro- that's another forum, not my thing.
Hello all,
Maryjohn, I am disappointed that the information that I pointed to does not clearify my point to you . The article does describe two pot experiements using H2O2. caveat...I do not recall both speices but one was tomatoes. The authers do not specifically make claims to potted plants true however the data presented for the potted plant experiements do correspond to the claim that "oxygenation yields many benefits".
I can't speak to the costs of venturi vs/ h2o2 use and period of returns/gains but I use a quart about ever two months or so of 3% at a cost of $0.88 at my local WInco. How many folks add bottled fert. solutions to there grow with the intention of increasing yields? And at that price?
It is true that I do not use SDI, I use tap water with pots. Water from the tap as you say is highly airated...great, but thats not hyper-oxygenation. Rainwater does indeed contain h2o2 but from what I recall in an even smaller concentration then I use. But hyper oxygenation will not occur because at most water can be only contain about 6% O2 at 70*F at standard atmosphere and pressure. Mechanical aeration (ie venturi) is just injecting micro-air-bubbles in the solution which are distributed as the fluid flows into the soil at the injector sight at a12%/volume (remember air is approx 20% o2). As far shaking yoru jug of water...again 6% tops.
As to an non-existant problem...well, perhaps this read will give you pause to consider the possibilties. This article speaks directly to potted plants and soil aeration. Specifically the "perched water table". I found this article to be quite informative and indirectly supports oxygenation of water solutions. It is not a great leap of logic to assume that o2 levels deplete and adding more o2 will benefitt...particularly in compacted soils. I do not know about your soil(less) mix but in the end the bottom is compacted over the two months or so in mine. Its a re-used amended peat mix with plenty of ewc (can cause compaction) and perlite. This article speaks soil compaction as well of organic soils.
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ornamentals/floriculture/aeration.pdf
And who has'nt overwatered or flushed? I can see the final pour of a flush using a weak h2o2 solution.
Finally, I am further saddened that you feel I have mis-represented the material. I am sorry if you feel I have in some way suggested that the use of h2o2 is required to fix any problem-existant or not.. Again, I raise the issue from an increased yield perspective. dosendo discitur
Further, perhaps a re-read of the of the text may help you to better understand the material as I understand that the material may be difficult for you. The science is presented- look for it. Ipsa scientia potestas est
In addition, it is my understanding that increased yields in hydro are a direct result of root oxygenation amoung other things. But I have never grown hydro so my knowledge is limited on this subject as well.
minds_I
EDIT:
Here's another study....it is not difficult to extrapolate the data to our needs IMHO.
http://www.inia.cl/at/v69n1/pdf/art12.pdf
Maryjohn, I am disappointed that the information that I pointed to does not clearify my point to you . The article does describe two pot experiements using H2O2. caveat...I do not recall both speices but one was tomatoes. The authers do not specifically make claims to potted plants true however the data presented for the potted plant experiements do correspond to the claim that "oxygenation yields many benefits".
I can't speak to the costs of venturi vs/ h2o2 use and period of returns/gains but I use a quart about ever two months or so of 3% at a cost of $0.88 at my local WInco. How many folks add bottled fert. solutions to there grow with the intention of increasing yields? And at that price?
It is true that I do not use SDI, I use tap water with pots. Water from the tap as you say is highly airated...great, but thats not hyper-oxygenation. Rainwater does indeed contain h2o2 but from what I recall in an even smaller concentration then I use. But hyper oxygenation will not occur because at most water can be only contain about 6% O2 at 70*F at standard atmosphere and pressure. Mechanical aeration (ie venturi) is just injecting micro-air-bubbles in the solution which are distributed as the fluid flows into the soil at the injector sight at a12%/volume (remember air is approx 20% o2). As far shaking yoru jug of water...again 6% tops.
As to an non-existant problem...well, perhaps this read will give you pause to consider the possibilties. This article speaks directly to potted plants and soil aeration. Specifically the "perched water table". I found this article to be quite informative and indirectly supports oxygenation of water solutions. It is not a great leap of logic to assume that o2 levels deplete and adding more o2 will benefitt...particularly in compacted soils. I do not know about your soil(less) mix but in the end the bottom is compacted over the two months or so in mine. Its a re-used amended peat mix with plenty of ewc (can cause compaction) and perlite. This article speaks soil compaction as well of organic soils.
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ornamentals/floriculture/aeration.pdf
And who has'nt overwatered or flushed? I can see the final pour of a flush using a weak h2o2 solution.
Finally, I am further saddened that you feel I have mis-represented the material. I am sorry if you feel I have in some way suggested that the use of h2o2 is required to fix any problem-existant or not.. Again, I raise the issue from an increased yield perspective. dosendo discitur
Further, perhaps a re-read of the of the text may help you to better understand the material as I understand that the material may be difficult for you. The science is presented- look for it. Ipsa scientia potestas est
In addition, it is my understanding that increased yields in hydro are a direct result of root oxygenation amoung other things. But I have never grown hydro so my knowledge is limited on this subject as well.
minds_I
EDIT:
Here's another study....it is not difficult to extrapolate the data to our needs IMHO.
http://www.inia.cl/at/v69n1/pdf/art12.pdf
you've completely missed the point, and your mind appears made up.
Let me state one more time that the statement "oxygenation yields many benefits" is out of context and incomplete. The soil conditions given are anoxic, not normal, and the article does not advocate hyperoxygenation as a solution to anything but anoxia.
That's all I have to say on this subject. You are free to add unnecessary synthetic chemicals to your soil and water, but please don't post an article that does not support your position and make a claim to the contrary.
Let me state one more time that the statement "oxygenation yields many benefits" is out of context and incomplete. The soil conditions given are anoxic, not normal, and the article does not advocate hyperoxygenation as a solution to anything but anoxia.
That's all I have to say on this subject. You are free to add unnecessary synthetic chemicals to your soil and water, but please don't post an article that does not support your position and make a claim to the contrary.
