HTFSE(high terpene full spectrum extract)

[Sunfire]

Lots of people are making htfse now.

There's no evaporation involved to drop saturation points. The precipitation happens over a long period of time in a cold environment. I've seen people who have done it in sealed jars. Clearly dewaxing first is proper.

Considering the melting point of thca being 70C and thc being 40C (supposively...gw...any confirmations on that from your end?) Then it seems like there for sure needs to be more terpenes to thin the solution at low temps. Alas I've heard claims of no terps added.

What I want to know is the temp. I've heard a huge range. As low as -80C over several months. The guy who showed me pics of the sealed jars but wouldn't really discuss much beyond the chemistry of thca precipitation and crystallization, just said "low and slow."

I've had pyrex tupperware full of non-dewaxed rosin that was very high in terpene content (tahoe og) that was left in the fridge for weeks and the thca began to apparently precipitate, sink, and began stacking in a crystalline form at the bottom of the dish. This makes me think one doesnt really need that low of a temp but the lower the temp, the slower it will be so theoretically one would produce larger crystals.

The process seems easy enough to uderstand but the temp and time are what still seem vague. I guess there's only way to find out...

 

[Pangea]

I wouldnt say dewax first is proper, you'll strip most of your terps.

My temps and time range from 5C to 25C, and 10 days to 2 months.

The viscosity altered by terp content and temps, plays a role in sinking and stacking effect, as you said the slower the larger the crystal, which is true for all crystal compounds. Get to cold and the viscosity will increase to the point of hampering any movement, though if you wait long enough it should give results.

There does not need to be evaporation to adjust saturation points, I think its a balance between cold temps, terp levels and slow evaporation(even a sealed jar has headspace that may be reset when opened)

It can happen to a slab, doesnt need to be thick or deep, if its super terpy it will evaporate or separate through being absorbed by a parchment sheet(terps will soak and separate through, while leaving thca crystals on top(not recommended) But will more often be very small crystals vs larger singles, though Ive had 10 -15mg singles form on slabs.

Making htfse or whatever you want to call it is easier than not to make when youve got freshly dried/chopped quality starting material, any "live" resin, worth the name could be easily made into htfse or large crystals, same with good rosin!

I know its impossible to keep up with everything in the industry, but its sounds like you havent seen any other discussions or posts on the subject other than this one?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=304292
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=313972
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=315812


http://conflabs.com/cannabinoid-crystallization/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ1kB-TBSYu/

 

[Old Gold]

I wouldnt say dewax first is proper, you'll strip most of your terps.

Ummmm what and why

 

[Pangea]

Evaporating/purging the excess solvent post winterization separation using traditional/common methods will also evaporate/purge terpenes. Perhaps I shouldnt have said most as ymmv.

 

[Old Gold]

Evaporating/purging the excess solvent post winterization separation using traditional/common methods will also evaporate/purge terpenes. Perhaps I shouldnt have said most as ymmv.

You can dewax in butane. Why is this idea so taboo?


"Winterize" is just another word for "dewax." It's just more specific, as it refers to insolubility created by lower temperatures.

A little bit of waxing up will ruin your clarity when you stack things thick, like in glass vials. Pretty clearly, you want to dewax it. It'll also help you actually separate "high-terpene" from "high-cannibanoid" fractions as they call it. Lipids will want to dissolve both.

While slow evaporation might achieve similar results sometimes WITHOUT the dewax, I think that is misguided information.
A million ways to heaven, some more efficient than others...

 

[EastCoast710]

I think 1 is dewaxed.. and the other is not.. .. id hope they are using a CLOSED LOOP system. .but just cleaning or using clean butane mix every time..

also.. seems like they are just doing fresh frozen.. or very very fresh dried runs.. I can get my oil to look like that.. and I can get my oil to have so many terpenes that u cannot put it on parchment because the terpenes will actually separate and start to break down the silicon on the parchment paper.

 

[Pangea]

Your right, the differences between dewax and winterizing are to each our own. I use the term dewax for cold run single solvent extraction, and winterizing when adding etoh to bho for the polarity shift/precip. Perhaps not technically correct, ive found it to be the common parlance when discussing BHO and BHO processing.

Sunfire, said dewax not winterize, which I for some reason processed as winterize. I take my comment back and agree that dewax is proper for good results, but its not required, my first batches were from above 0C solvent with plenty o lipids/waxes.

Eastcoast, Ive had a slab break down the parch right through and stain the table it was sitting on, some terps are volatile as fuck! Fresher is easier, but Ive just had flowers test at 8+% terp after curing on the stalk for 14months, still produces liquid gold bho, but resists crystallization due to natural decarb rates.

 

[A-Horizon]

This is my first attempt at full spectrum extracts. This is after the first pour off of "HTFSE". It's still oozing "HTFSE" and I will collect more from it. The "HTFSE" is continuing to sugar, and I will continue to fractionate it till its stable, and I have true HTFSE and HCFSE, Hopefully.

Extractioneering lays out everything on his instagram, if you read closely. Fully dewaxing is the key as thca, fats, and terpenes are all "intersoluble".

In my limited experience thca is not dropped by lowering temp as that would make the oleoresin to viscous.

Hopefully I'll be able to update y'all with some HTFSE
This is live resin fyi. I plan on trying dry flowers and trim soon. I'll let you know if those go well or not.

Thanks everyone for sharing.I don't ever post but I've spent countless hours reading these forums over the past 6 years. I've come so far and I wouldn't have made it without all yall. Peace

 

[SquattingBull]

Interesting result. You're correct he gives pieces all along the way. He is dewaxing with a centrifugal system and he makes it very clear that is key to his choice of process.

 

[Pangea]

I hate IG as a information/discussion sharing platform, perhaps I'm way outta the loop...

Ive brought up centrifuge action before, thought it was obvious, been on my list of things to mess about with for awhile.

I wonder if they or anyone else is purging residual solvent with centrifugal/centripetal forces as well as to separate components...

 

[krunchbubble]

I wish I could find some of this to buy...

No one in the Bay Area has this...

 

[Ganjaganjakush]

I wish I could find some of this to buy...

No one in the Bay Area has this...

get a ticket to the mitten shop or two in lansing has it

 

[SquattingBull]

I hate IG as a information/discussion sharing platform, perhaps I'm way outta the loop...

Ive brought up centrifuge action before, thought it was obvious, been on my list of things to mess about with for awhile.

I wonder if they or anyone else is purging residual solvent with centrifugal/centripetal forces as well as to separate components...

I know IG is an amazingly inconsistent are largely misleading area of the interwebs. They're most certainly have been people in northern California using a centrifuge to dewax for several years are the very least if not longer.

 

[Jhowemca]

Interesting... I have a centrifuge in the basement!

 

[bamerrim]

I've been trying to figure this out for a while. if you could email me (bamerim@gmail.com whats the post extraction process? and are you using a CLS reclaim or no?

 

[sog army]

crunch i can get some in the bay area.. lets link and sesh.. id like to pick your brain on leds

 

[TerpChild]

Calling live resin by a new name... We seem to be addicted to these types of shenanigans in the weed industry.

 

[Dabgrow]

Why do people assume anything high terpene is fresh frozen? You can get 10%+ terps from dried bud/trim if processed to do so. Live resin would be opposite of what FSE is supposed to be since it should match the terp profile of finished flower.

 

[TerpChild]

Dabgrow i said live resin because its the closest consistent comparison. I have made cured nug bho that looks like live resin and is terpy like it too. I am just agreeing with some others in this thread that "HTFSE" is nothing special other than a name. Terpenes are awesome but they can harm your lung tissue and aggravate your sinuses when they get way to concentrated. All i am saying is that this industry is full of people trying to sell $20\g (or less) to produce extracts for $80-100. Thats greed and that sucks. Also, if you need to add terps to anything but distillate than your either starting with inferior material or your tech is messed up.
Dont believe the hype! Get some prime nugs and make your own bho and then you can sell it to your homies as HTFSE for a huge , then they can tell their friends how terpy your "full spectrum" is! Create sexy package and your off and running!
If i have missed something here please correct me. I work for a very large collective and see the wholesale prices for this shit and then the corresponding markup. It makes me hate the industry that sucked me dry until i learned how to make my own extracts.

 

[Ziggynw]

Calling live resin by a new name... We seem to be addicted to these types of shenanigans in the weed industry.

This type of crystallization is much different than Live Resin. It's characterized by the separation of an extract into two layers, the "High Cannabinoid" and the "High Terpene" layers. The High Cannabinoid layer is the crystallized THCa that precipitated and stuck to the bottom.

The separation is a post extraction refining technique, so saying it's Live Resin with a fancy new name is inaccurate