How many plants must you select from to not be a "hack"

[englishrick]

I highly doubt that we are talking about gas chromatography here Rick, not that it would be any more relevant/important than our own opinions concerning quality even if we were. Once we accept 100+ possible modifying factors in terpenoids alone (see SamS, who is intimately acquainted with this science), focusing/narrowing-in that much with GC becomes barely more than moot in considering selection methods. Imo, the science of this old plant is still far too young to be placing such a high importance on anything quite yet. Dollars to donuts, I bet the folks at GW Pharmaceuticals are scratching their heads and feeling right about now somewhat like the Saudi's did after we sold them all those fighter jets but failed to include the operating/repair manuals. Teehee -Tom

hay Tom,,,,,

i was only joking about that dude having a GC,,,,i dont expect him to be like sam,,,who the frig is gona have a GC and autosampler like sam,,,

yeh man,,,somethings wrong with GW but i dont think its lack of knolage,,,,Mr Watson will probbly put what they need in there hands so i dont know how they can go wrong,,,,i am actualy amazed at how mutch the share prices whent down,,,,i just dont get it,,,they should not have faild the placebo tests,,im sure it already works!!,,,someone is playing games!!

i also agree that humans sample weed better than any GC,,but inorder for it to become an sientific fact and not just remain just a phenomenon, we need to use a GC,,,,i think,

yeh man,,,,,the entourage effect (Mechoulam and Ben- Shabat 1999) is the reason i select for specific terpen profiles,,,,i think smelly-weed is the best for a reason,,,Cheese is highly theraputic because of this imo

its good to see you tom,,,ive been lucky enough to chat to you twice the last few days,,,hopefull my lucky streek will continue


ps
ive still not tasted your weed yet,,,,a friend of mine is probbly gona sort me out soon,,, so hopefully il be comin back with a raving review, praising your shiz,,

take care tom

 

[englishrick]

hay Tom i just gota tell ya,,,,,

i bought 2 coppys of Allard,,,,,im holding 1 copy and i sent the other copy to DocLeaf and the LGA crew,,,when they are done with it il send it to the next weed ninja

they have you to thank for that

 

[cannaboy]

Allard is interesting Rick...

 

[dank.frank]

I don't want to call myself a breeder.
I prefer Artistic Hybridization Engineer...

or Maybe... Hybridization Artist Creating Kind Seeds.

Sign me up please....I see an impending social group....hahahahaa!!


dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

Ya knowingly spread pollen from one plant to another....now yer a breeder of plants.

Any understandin' of genetics etc....is beneficial....but not neccessary....

Any natural ability at makin' good selections...is beneficial...but not neccessary....

Hacks...."Real" breeders....pollen chuckers....what is in a name anyway?.......unless yer churnin' out beans fer retail.... then I guess yer knowledge of how thingys work and how peeps lable ya...becomes important. On a hobby level....in my private garden...I couldn't give two shits what others call me or my work...yup...I'm secure in meself and me abilities to hack, blend, mix, chuck, recombo, and breed all kinds of different plants....whether they be tomatos....squash...or herb plants.

Needin' testin' labs etc.....to be deemed a breeder is beyond silly....yrs of experience doesn't prove anything.....but if that's what it takes to give ya a sense of confidence and entitlement....if that's what it takes to blow yer skirt up......I must question yer motives.

If a body is happy with the fruits of one's labor......if the proof is n the puddin'(ie...ya find plants to yer likin'....that meet yer goals).....a title means.....zero. There are already way too many rules in the world....how unfun.

PREACH! Great attitude!




dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

NOW....having read the entire thread...

I have to say this to the OP:

I truly believe that IF you know the principals the breeder you got your seeds from was breeding with...and what they were trying to accomplish within a particular seed line, you as an end user / hobby breeder, can incorporate that knowledge into your own goal with the project.

If you have 20 plants available to you, you can still work with what you have to make the best possible selections given the working material you have in front of you. There are many given traits that you will see amongst both males and females. I think one of the most important things is learning to have an equal appreciation for males as well as the female...they are 50% of the mix. More than often, if you can flower males out in a room and see them perform, you will see in them, the different traits and characteristics that make them unique. Does this mean that you can automatically pick a perfect male...well, no...truth is found in the offspring. BUT, I think you can dramatically increase your chances by understanding what it is about a male that makes it stand out or different from its siblings....the same as you would a female.

That being said, and without getting to off track, the advantage of having 1000's of plants to choose from cannot be denied...but if you understand the genes you are working with, the more knowledge you gain about a given strain and all it's possible parents, grandparents etc....and then you see the plants being used in other crosses by other people and how those are affected...and you begin to take note of a pattern and a set traits that certain plants pass on. Simplified...we learn what is dank, high yield, good for hash, etc...you take that knowledge with you into a project...and it helps define what you can also expect when working with known proven genetics.

The availability that we have in this community of AMAZING genetics....and private individuals as well as breeders...and their philosophies and concepts behind breeding, and thus their results, helps me pick and sort through what material I in turn what to play around with in my own little projects and ensures that I do in fact achieve my own goals.

Does it make me a "breeder"...probably not. But am I a "hack" or "pollen chucker"....NEVER. I will always do my absolute best by the same standards and methods as others...only I do it within the availability of my means...


dank.Frank

 

[englishrick]

this quote is wickid!,,,,

The mutant factor comes from DJ never outcrossing his work and using too many already inbred 1:1 matings. If for several generations you cross all your already half sib plants to a single male, big surprise, you get a seedlot that lacks vigor and has accumulated deleterious recessive genes. Combine that with sample sizes of less than 50 plants and you're ganna run into problems. It's pretty hard to properly maintain germplasm when your breeding in a trailer park. He never put colchicine on his seeds. Don't believe the hype, but if you don't believe what I say feel free to pm and ask him.

 

[Thundurkel]

Anyone see the new High Times with Chemdogs garden in it? I remember a few months back a friend who's a friend of the Chem family was telling me how Chemdog's garden isn't very hi tech at all and dude don't cool his hoods and runs 5gal buckets with no drain holes stating that " the plants cycle is short enough that the medium doesn't have time to go stagnant ect" I was kind blown away but believed it as most old school legends keep shit real simple and still out perform many growers with the latest and greatest new grow gear.. Anyways pick up the June 2010 High Times shit the Purple Urkle poster is worth it for me haha and it's got Subcool telling how he made Chernobyl time to start reading and puff a lil Blueberry!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Good question and here's My answer Ive been doing this thing for about 27 yrs I use 100+ per strain for Selection and have 18 diffrent gardens that I work with to develop New strains...why so many...
Well your first f1 series normally isnt stable until the third time you recross..so it take's a while if you are limited in your numbers..
This year I will have 1800 + and only 3 strains crossed each a little differently..out of all those... only 3 new strains will be developed
Ideally you select from the largest pool of plants same strain that you have selecting for traits you want...
I have one strain that is 26.782 % THC/CBD however not a solid nugget very bracketed her sis from another mom cross pollinated with a diffrent male indica stain is very tight but lost THC/CBD count
22.4 %
Bottom line is If you dont have a lab to test THC/CBD your just spinnin your wheels and making a nice flower without documentation your a hack...yes I have a lab...and we test other folks stuff as well
Regards

GGM,
27 years is a long time, I was wondering how much of that time did you have a GC? Was all the time you spent before you had a GC just hacking?
BTW, you say the THC/CBD level is 26.728 another one 22.4% THC/CBD but I have never seen THC or CBD measured together like this THC/CBD. What is the THC level by itself? Or the CBD level by itself? Example: THC/CBD 20.3% /.3%
I have had GC's and HPLC's in my lab for 20 years.
I can also say my favorite Cannabis "Original Haze" was bred by a grower that had no breeding knowledge at all, much less access to a GC.
Can you name a single variety that you created using your 27 years experience, as well as your GC, that I might have heard of? I am interested in trying them. Where do I get them?

-SamS

 

[medmaker420]

GGM,
27 years is a long time, I was wondering how much of that time did you have a GC? Was all the time you spent before you had a GC just hacking?
BTW, you say the THC/CBD level is 26.728 another one 22.4% THC/CBD but I have never seen THC or CBD measured together like this THC/CBD. What is the THC level by itself? Or the CBD level by itself? Example: THC/CBD 20.3% /.3%
I have had GC's and HPLC's in my lab for 20 years.
I can also say my favorite Cannabis "Original Haze" was bred by a grower that had no breeding knowledge at all, much less access to a GC.
Can you name a single variety that you created using your 27 years experience, as well as your GC, that I might have heard of? I am interested in trying them. Where do I get them?

-SamS

I am terrible at spotting sarcasm BUT I think there might have been some there. Who knows I could be wrong

 

[englishrick]

my favorite Cannabis "Original Haze" was bred by a grower that had no breeding knowledge at all, much less access to a GC

^^^^ if i was one of them dudes who loved quoting people in my sig,,,id defo put this 1 on there,,,thats a top quote!!

an if im not mistaken,,, i remember reading in the early days of making the haze only a small amount of males were used every year,,,,,would you have done anything differently if you had the chance?,,,like bumping up the population numbers?

haze is a prime example of what could be possible with a lil help from sam,,,lol

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Not to throw gas on the pensky open cup, but I personally know of a lab that often has problems. They have the latest gear, but it seems calibration issues haunt them often.
I am starting to suspect that hacks may exist in the testing lab arena...surely not...I mean, if all one needs is a gas chromatography thingamajig to make one a pro....but then I hear these mass spec. guys throwing stones at the hacks with simple GC gear.


GGM is going to show us some pics of his pro lab...

 

[englishrick]

a PROPPER pro need a GC + Tech Guy + a world class crop breeder,,,,,ya can be a pro just by sitting on your ass if you know how to play the game propperly,,,

^^thats the level im dreaming of!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I love the game of golf. Never started playing until I was in my thirties, and it has had me ever since the very first slice. Thing is, it is one of the most, if not the most, demanding sport there is to be consistently good at. Bar none. And as a result, even with what I consider to be above average sports inclination, I find that I cannot attain any higher level than "hack" status. I know the mechanics and the insides and outs of the game. I can tell a person how to make a perfect swing, and exactly what they need to do in most instances, but for myself to actually show them how to do it is another thing. See, I am a hack at the game, and have been playing for nearly 20 years now.
I enjoy my hack status. When paired up with strangers, I proudly proclaim my standing as a hack, that will only shoot low 80's when his game is on, and is very satisfied with boogie rounds.

And in my near 20 years of enjoying the sport, I find that the hacks have LOTS more fun than those who think they are above others and trying to be a pro.

 

[englishrick]

if the hack golfer gets to smoke a splif,,,and the pro golfer never gets to inhale,,,,id rather be the hack,,,

 

[hoosierdaddy]

LOL...damn right, rick!
Some of my pals like to drink heavy on the links, me I like the spliffs Before tee off, at the turn, and on the 19'th green!
Golf and a full on roasting go hand in hand. What a beautiful way to commune with nature.
Tee time at 4:20!

 

[BeAn]

The whole thing is a symbyotic(sp?) relationship, hacks couldnt work without pro's doing the hard stuff first, pro's couldnt make a living without growers, some of which will make seeds. at the end of the day, whether you grow 1,000,000 P1's for each cross, or buy a pack and like it so ya spank the girls with the boys, then your making seed, i wouldnt like to be called a breeder, or have another title such as that, simply because if you dont say 'I am This' then people cant say, 'no your not'....full props to those we look up to, and more fire to those looking up...if your happy making wank beans and selling them, fair play, theres custom for all the dodgy sellers, but the real people know they are real and thats enough for them....just a fucking plant anyways..

 

[Admiral Canna]

Excellent thread. Read the whole things. Big props GFH and DocLeaf. Great info!!!!! Thanks guys.

 

[subrob]

The whole thing is a symbyotic(sp?) relationship, hacks couldnt work without pro's doing the hard stuff first, pro's couldnt make a living without growers, some of which will make seeds. at the end of the day, whether you grow 1,000,000 P1's for each cross, or buy a pack and like it so ya spank the girls with the boys, then your making seed, i wouldnt like to be called a breeder, or have another title such as that, simply because if you dont say 'I am This' then people cant say, 'no your not'....full props to those we look up to, and more fire to those looking up...if your happy making wank beans and selling them, fair play, theres custom for all the dodgy sellers, but the real people know they are real and thats enough for them....just a fucking plant anyways..

good points bean! thats why, as i stated, i always correct peeps when they refer to me as the 'breeder' of one of my crosses...not that i care, i just dont want someone w the proper credentials correcting them for me and making me look dumb! haha
---something i didnt point out, the first cross i ever made, i started w a select purple cut and chose from TWO males out of six plants total...granted, i started w what i consider a fairly stable strain(htc skunk ibl), but the result is an excellent hybrid
---as a side note, ogbub encouraged me not only to use it in crosses, but to try making f2's and spread the love around for free...not a bad attitude when you have 10's of packs of them up on the bay for sale! thanks again bub!

 

[Thundurkel]

Nice that's what's up subrob kinda how I plan to start out since I have a few males to choose from right now and some good stuff to grow out to and select from. I think the first thing I'm going to work on will be making Thunder Goo BX1 seeds using Mini's Crystal Throttle beans to find my male to outcross the TG with cuz the Throttle is Afrweck x Afgooey x Sour D IBL so I have a good chance at finding a male that will be Goo dominant to hit my Thunder Goo with and then find a Thunder Goo dominant male and hit TG again.
Now after that don't I need to take those and find a TG female to hit with my male and find a more TG dominant male in those to hit the original mom with which would then give me a batch of Thunder Goo BX1s ???